Keep in mind, Tongue weight will vary depending on load placement, number of batteries, full vs empty propane tanks, weight distribution hitch setup, load and balance of cargo, and status of holding tanks. This video wasn't an attempt to outline exact figures when loaded, it was to demonstrate an example of hitch weight. I am also aware that the scale dropped the nose of each trailer down about 2" which would transfer a very marginal amount of weight towards the front.
Get a scale, get the trailer weighed when you are ready to travel. Set up your hitch to make drop on all four wheels of the truck even, with the trailer level front to back. Then weigh the tongue. Start moving things fore and aft until you have from 10 to 12 percent of the total weight on the tongue. Redo the weight distributing hitch again making sure you have the right bars for your tongue weight.
This is crazy, it seems like a scrap shoot. I’d say do the best you can calculating the numbers, then if you feel safe and comfortable going down the road consider yourself fortunate.
4:08 I don't think you are correct. You can't take the cargo weight and add 100% of the cargo to the tongue weight. The water tank is usualy around the middle of trailer so only a fraction of that weight will transfer to the tongue. You can't say I load it with 400lb the tongue weight will go up 400lb.
my 2019 cougar has a 60 gallon fresh water tank under the front bedroom so it transfers a considerable amount of weight to the tongue maybe not the whole 480 pounds but its up there but it is a balancing act of moving your supplies here and there to try to equalize the weight
The RV looks like it's angled down when you put it on the scale? The front is awfully low... If so, that would make the test inaccurate. More weight will be on the front if it's leaning downwards. You want it level, like it would be when attached to a hitch... To get the most accurate number. Unless I'm missing something?
Even though there are many variables, if you generalize the trigonometric formulas for an even weight distribution, and guess that the angle is probably 5 degrees at maximum, you are probably looking at a less than 10% increase in tongue weight for the angling downward. For me, I’d be just fine if I said to someone that the measured tongue weight was 550 lbs, and it was actually 500lbs. That is an acceptable error factor given that you can change the tongue weight more than that by the location of the cargo.
@@LukeEdward If he's off by 10%, that means the tongue weight is 810lbs... That's 12% of the 6800lb dry weight... Even less if those propane tanks are full. Nothing wrong with 12% tongue weight.
The longer the trailer, the lesser the change in weight from nose up to nose down. You are only talking about a thin wedge of material directly over the axles shifting from just behind to just forward of the axle. I re-watched and they all don't seem that far off from level.
I’m not buying that this is what is happening. In order for that to happen, an equal amount of weight would have to be transferred off the axle or axles if the tongue is lowered and That doesn’t make sense to me. Are you saying the weight on the hitch of the tow vehicle increases when you go downhill and gets lighter when you go uphill? I doubt it but it would be a good one for Mythbusters.
I have to agree with some of the earlier comments, it seems odd that the dry weight only transfers 10-15% of their weight but any weight you add gets transferred 1/1. The very first example in the video I feel is just wrong. I appreciate that people overestimate what they can tow, but I’d still like to see a video using the scale, and add gear and see the change on the tongue
Well, on the next segment, I hope you go into details of axle placement and why they matter. If anything, what this video purely points out, DON'T USE DRY WEIGHT! The second trailer is a prime example, the TW on that trailer is WAY too light for a travel trailer and I would not want to be the one towing it empty. With less than 10% on the ball, you cannot distribute weight properly, and if one tried to, the weight transfer to the trailer would make it even more unstable. It reminds me of our first trailer, a Coleman CT274BH. Bringing it home when it was completely empty was a white knuckle, what did I get myself into, experience. Once we got it loaded for the road and filled the FWT, it towed great, but when we sold it, I delivered it to the new owners and thankfully I had the F350 to tow it because it was a wiggle worm on the Interstate. On that last trailer I figured between 800-900 TW, mainly due to axle placement. The only one I didn't get within 20 pounds was the second one with less than 10% TW, quite surprised at that one since it was darn near identical to the 274BH in GVWR, CCC and UVW, but was 200 pounds lighter on the ball.
@@donkeller6399 You seem to be alluding to loading all weight ahead of the axle. It’s all about balance, in my scenario I have a whole lot of room in the balance equation on my trailer to load behind the axles. Not all trailers are loaded equal, it’s not just about ahead or behind the axle, distance from the axles also makes a difference.
@@BigTruckBigRV so how should a trailer be towed with no weight distribution hitch vs a hitch distribution hitch? Do you hook up and measure sag then unhook and re-adjust hitch height to be level with no sag? Do you expect the weight distribution to take sag out? On a cat scale how should the trailer be how much weight should be trailer tires vs drive vs steer
That's why North American trailers have the axles so far back - the whole trailer is a lever with the fulcrum at the axles. With less rear than front overhang, 2 lb at the very back can be cancelled with 1 lb on the tongue.
He needs to also have a level so that the trailer’s level when you’re measuring tongue weight. Any trailer tongue weight is going to go up if you lower the crank below level.
A light tongue weight is usually not dangerous below 90 km/h (55 mph). That's why European trailers have their axles better centred - there is a lower speed limit for RV trailers. My point is that as long as you know your setup and drive accordingly, you can be safe. If you know your trailer has a light tongue, stay on the slower back roads and off the divided highways, and enjoy the fuel savings as a bonus.
Slower speeds definitely help but going down a hill a 90 km/h with a really low tongue weight is still going to cause you major problems. It is best to keep your cargo closer to the front of the trailer.
A couple comments. First, I think you do a great job alerting people of the dangers of overloading trucks and how quickly it adds up. In regard to this video, the used unit had a battery and propane tanks that weren't empty so I would expect the tongue weight to be higher. I think a live test of having the scale in place and adding the tanks and battery would really show the viewer how it makes a difference. It would also be interesting to add a person or two to the inside of the trailer to simulate cargo weight and the affect it has on tongue weight if it moves forward or backward of the axles. Keep up the great videos.
JD, I would love to see this done to a couple fifth wheels pin weight. Comparing actual pin weight to what manufacturers listed pin weight. Possibly with your own, an empty pin weight vs a loaded, ready to go camping pin weight would be very interesting. Thanks for the video.
Great content, thank you. Perhaps manufacturers might entertain the idea of a weight scale built into the tongue jack! Just imagine the possibilities with this concept, especially where safety is concerned!! Thanks again man, love your videos, very informative...
I second this. Very helpful to the owner to know the weight upfront rather than estimating. Using a CAT scale is accurate but they are not always within the vicinity
The conclusions that you came to are flawed and misleading in two ways. The first is, the unit was not level when the measurement is taken. The trailer being lower at the hitch end will transfer weight forward making the tongue weight appear higher. The second is why would all of the additional payload that was added to the trailer be on the hitch? That is not realistic. Every situation is different but for the most part if the unit dry has 10% or so hitch weight the added payload would be Similar. This demonstration is not helpful.
He is extremely smart, however his content has been flawed for quite sometime. As you mentioned he stated that all weight added to the trailer would count against the TW. What I believe he meant to say and should have stated clearer was that weight added to the pass through will count heavily against the TW and all additional weight added to the trailer will also increase TW but it will vary depending on location in the trailer. The last trailer he weighted is an used trailer and likely had LP and maybe even a battery on it. It had brackets for a blue ox hitch on in. I might have missed it but should have been discussed. He often does reviews of Flagstaffs and others that will have heavier TW and he specifically used trailers that lend themselves to have light TW, most even had hand crank jacks. I was a fan of his channel at the beginning, but have shied away from it due to content like this. It’s sad. So much potential.
My gripe is the WDH. WDH's come in weight ranges (ex 4-6K) (6-8K) (8-10K) (10-12K) ETC. Make sure YOU KNOW to buy the correct WDH. It's not a matter of price. (not much difference in cost between range) Dealer may want you to buy what is in stock. Which won't do the intended job. Too much hitch is bad also.
How did you calculate loading 200-500lbs of cargo to get 1000+lbs tongue weight with the first trailer? If the % stays the same (I know where the cargo is can change tongue weight slightly) 700/6025=11.6%, wouldn't 6225-6525 * 11.6% be ~723-758lbs? Only asking because I'm really intrigued by that tongue weight tool and learning what travel trailer I can upgrade to! Awesome vid, exactly what I was looking for!
Glad you're doing this video! All the pickup manufacturers fudge their numbers to make you think you can tow 10,000 to 12,000 trailers with their 1/2 ton pickups!! No way!!! Most consumers don't have a clue what they are doing when it comes to safely towing!
I contacted one the local RV dealers and asked if I could come out and measure the tongue weight of the trailer I’m interested in. I told them that I would buy/provide the scale and they weren’t interested in allowing me to do that. Thanks for this video.
1st, not sure if someone else has already said this already but, that trailer hitch weight will vary depending on where that weight(in cargo) you put it at! Meaning if you put most of the weight behind the trailers axles then it might actually lift(or lighten) the weight on the trailer hitch & as the same as if it's put in front of the trailer axles, it will add more weight to it! But don't confuse thinking that you can cheat by loading up an underrated truck(or whatever you're using to pull it with) by loading everything into the back of the trailer(vs evenly thoughout) that will just make pulling the trailer more dangerous, causing the rear end of the tow vehicle to lift & lose rear end traction which could lead into you losing control!
I’d be real curious if you put blocks under the scale to level the trailers. It would be fairly easy to try it with and without the block(s) to see how much the tongue weight changes.
My guesses were very close, got the last one on the money. Don't the trailers have the tongue weight listed somewhere ? Would love to see how accurate they are. Saw another video where a guy's Lance with a 550 lb listed tongue weight was actually 900 lbs, probably due to his cargo but still. Interesting video...
I have owned a tongue weight gauge for a couple of decades and simply won't be without one. It is my opinion that we owe it to others on the road to have our tow vehicles and trailers in the best possible condition and properly matched. And...well...I'm a trailering nerd...I enjoy the math and related things to get the best possible balance for handling and stopping when it really counts. This becomes ESPECIALLY important with bumper pull trailers due to the unloading of the front tires and the lever created by the distance between the centerline of the tow vehicle rear axle and the centerline of the hitch ball. On my '23 Super Duty, this distance is about 60"...a five foot lever that allows every movement of the trailer to have a larger effect on the truck. So take the time, get a tongue weight gauge and learn to use it. Load the trailer as you normally would and see what you've got...and if neccessary, start moving stuff until the tongue weight is correct. Ford Motor Company calls for 10% of the loaded trailer weight of a bumper pull rig to be on the hitch ball and 15% on the pin or ball for a fifth wheel or gooseneck. I like a bit more...13% for my bumper pull and 20-22% for my gooseneck. Once you get good at using the gauge, the checks take minutes...and when you get the balance exactly right, the drive is sooooo much more pleasureable...and safer...
The big bunkhouse has a Blue Ox weight dist chain saddle on it. I have a 3,000 lb gross enclosed single axle cargo trailer that weighs 1,000 lb but because the axle is so far back it has 300 on the tongue before cargo is loaded in it.
2 things. 1- there's no link to your part 2. 2- this would have been a perfect time to tell ppl how much tongue weight to trailer weight we should aim for. Should the tongue weight be 5, 10, 15% etc., of the trailer total weight?
European RV trailers are nearly leveled to zero between front and back when in dry weight. Up to 420 lbs to front when's fully loaded, depending on the car's hitch capacity.
I don't know if it's been said. But I think the measuring tool might be giving higher readings because of its short length. It seemed you were lowing the tongue making the trailers nose down to accommodate the tool. These teeters the trailer forward, possibly adding weight forward than if it was level.
This is great information JD! Especially since when you consider that most of the RV's you see have front storage units, and such to know tongue weight as well as the total loaded weight is critical stuff. I think that we would all be amazed how much stuff that we can load up into one of these trailers, and how easy it would be to go over not only the hitch weight but the overall weights of these as well. Also keep in mind that the average 1/2 ton truck only comes factory set up with a 5-6 thousand pound hitch rated for only 5-600 pounds hitch weight. Really easy to go over those numbers even with the dry weight, let alone the loaded up weight. It would be really neat if some of the local campers that you run into at the campgrounds that you go to would allow you to do the same with their loaded up rigs as well.
That single axle trailer seems like the axle is farther behind the center of the camper than it should be. I would think you would only get that small of a camper if you only had a vehicle that could only pull 4 to 5 k pounds, and then I would think it would struggle with the TW. Maybe being a single axle it needs to be farther back to prevent trailer sway.
Love the idea. I’m thinking for the next units, a floor jack underneath the scale. Level the unit with the tongue jack then use the floor jack to raise the scale into the coupler barely raising the tongue jack off the ground. May get a little more accurate measurement. And it would be much easier to compensate for varying height of the tongues.
Interesting video. But it would have been more interesting to me to know the length from the tongue to the first axle. And how that length (or how much of the total length was in front of the first axle) how those numbers relate to the percentage of dry weight is on the tongue.
That passport model has the axles pretty far back, similar to my rockwood does, so that 900lb tonque weight was less then I thought, as mine is actually 975lbs with a similar GWVR. Great video as always, goes to show you there is always more to take into consideration then just the layout.
The last one, I looked at one just like it. I went with the 29' bunkhouse because the other would have been at the max of my 3/4 ton Van. Loaded mine is 825 LBS, I always want to be under my GVWR for safety.
I love all your videos, I watch all of them, waiting for the winter to pass. I live in Canada and can’t wait to get into rving for the first time this spring/summer. However it’s my opinion that you couldn’t be more incorrect on this one. You are stating that at a 1:1 ratio, gear added to the trailer is added to the tongue weight. “...if you add 500 lbs of stuff your tongue weight will go from 400 up to 900 lbs...” That is not correct.
The tongue weight on that single axle surprised me a little. So 300 tongue empty, looked like forward kitchen? 20 gal fresh water -140 pounds, 30 lb propane tank -55 pounds, battery 60 pounds, so before anything else, 550 pound tongue weight on a 3k trailer? I specifically bought a long wheel base 1/2 ton with the highest payload I could find (1790) with hopes of a decent size trailer.
Those tongues can gain lots of weight when you add batteries and full propane tanks not to mention what all gets put in the cargo storage. I would bet 200 extra pounds on the tongue is a low guess. 50 lbs in propane and 30 lbs per battery conservatively just to get started.
JD, I think you already know this, but the cargo you load into the unit doesn’t transfer 100% of the weight to the hitch. It changes significantly depending on how far the moment is from the axles. You don’t get 100% transfer until you are directly over the hitch. Anyway, really interesting vid but good to know the mfr numbers are roughly equal to the 10% rule of thumb we’ve all learned.
Currect, I was speaking in generalities in regards to the actual weight that transfers to the hitch I'd the truck. I understand that the axles of the trailer will take some of the load as well.
I agree with other comments here. They way you calculate the simulated cargo capacity is not correct. If a dry trailer is 5,000lbs at 10% should be a ~500lbs tongue weight, simple enough. If 2,000lbs of cargo is added (evenly distributed and properly) the tow weight is now 7,000lbs and therefore the tongue weight is ~700lbs. This of course changes if cargo is no distributed evenly to the front or rear.
I think toyhaulers difference in lights are frame construction, most ultra lights have holes cut in the frame rails. Not what I would call preferable in a toyhauler, maybe investigate that one of these times, even though I'm not in the market anymore its why I upgraded to my stealth
It would be great if dealerships had that scale and showed you the amount before they hitched to your vehicle. It would be nice to know when purchasing a new trailer.
If you add 500 lbs of cargo, why would all of that cargo weight be added to the tongue weight? Wouldn't it depend on where you put the cargo in the trailer as to what % of that 500 lbs would transfer to the tongue weight?
It would seem like that used one with a higher tongue weight would probably have full propane tanks and probably a battery in that battery box. Maybe that’s adding the extra 200 pounds? Seems like it being used, it might not be in the new from the factory dry condition.
Your assumption that adding 500 lbs of cargo increases the tongue weight by the same amount is completely wrong. It absolutely depends where that weight is put inside the trailer. If its all put behind the axels it will decrease the tongue weight!.
Where did I say it would increase by the same amount? I said if you add roughly 500lbs of cargo to the front, you'll see around 300-400lb increase in tongue weight as an example.
My uneducated guess for the 1st trailer was 903 pounds, figuring for an approximate weight transfer of 15%. My guess was way off for the 2nd trailer as well. Maybe I'll buy that scale once I get my 1st travel trailer so as to have a good first towing experience.
I am curious what this experiment would return if measuring the TW with full freshwater tanks. I would expect the weight of the water and placement of the tanks to have a major impact and could significantly skew the results measured in a purely dry weight comparison.
Love the information, but with a proper weight distribution hitch you are changing how the load is placed and I think the axle capacity is more of a critical factor then tongue weight and payload however both should be considered, the only true way to know if you have a good set up is to weight the rig as you would be using it to see if you are within your numbers for payload both truck and trailer, axle capacity and gross vehicle weight.
My trailer (rear living) weighs ~6200 dry so I was within 25#'s on the 1st. But add two propane tanks + 2 batteries and my bet is most people add 800-1000#'s of stuff and your tongue weight goes up to 1000-1200 #'s. Mine started out at 650# dry(per factory) but after loading it is now ~1100# w/o water ! I'm not sure how accurate the factory was? I thought #2 would weigh more. #4 was heavier than I thought.
That's something that is very specific. What truck do you have? What trailer do you have? What hitch do you have? What suspension do you have? /watch?v=XBZu39pQ8Gg
99codemister I guess it would depend a lot on the hitch and the pickup I hadn’t even thought of that. I just think he should make a video to inform people that the tongue weight of the trailer is not actually the amount that goes on the rear axle of the pickup because the hitch is so far back of the axle there’s a lot of leverage there
I'm at 6050 dry and 6750 loaded, My dry tongue weight is 735 pounds while loaded it jumps up to 915. So doing the math. Adding 700 pounds to the trailer added 180 pounds to the tongue. As a percentage that is almost 26% which figures because about 166 pounds is batteries and propane.
I thought the Passports had the spaced out axles to help distribute weight through the frame. The way it was explained to me was the higher the tongue was lifted the more weight shifts to the axles. Wouldn't it stand to reason that on any trailer if you have the tongue below the axles then more weight would be on the tongue? Looked like the measuring device was pretty low and the trailers had a slight bow down. I could be talking complete non-sense as well. Any idea on this?
I don’t get this at all because so many RU-vid videos they complain about hitch weight Hitch weights, correct if trailer isn’t hooked up and level if trailer is nose pitched truck will severely be over on drives If trailer is rear pitched steers would be heavy So my question is yes leveled but here’s the real question Do you hook a trailer up and hope it’s level with weight distribution hitch? Or do you hook trailer up then after squat unhook raise hitch and now ur level and then install weight distribution hitch?
JD Nice video! We have a 2020 F250 6.7 and want to upgrade to a 5th wheel just about every dealer says “no problem that beast will tow any of these” I know its BS! We have a giant 36’ Roockwood Signature 2017 7071 lbs empty with a 900 lb tung weight. Please do a video explaining what, when owning a 3/4 ton whats a safe number we should be looking for or better yet staying away from when shopping for a new 5th wheel because dealers only want your money!
It depends on a lot of factors like wheel base, trim package, and axle. Ford publishes a towing guide that will give the specs. That engine will tow anything, yes, but Ford has the max trailer weight between 15,000 lbs and 20,000 pounds. Make sure you look at pin weight as well to not overload the rear axle. The most accurate rear axle max will be on your drivers side door sticker.
I was all over the place in my guesses. 200 pounds over on the first trailer guess, 150 pounds low on the second trailer guess, 50 pounds over on the third trailer guess and 150 pounds low on the fourth trailer guess.
This goes to show you that the advertised weight numbers are inaccurate and most people haven't a clue. For reference the Keystone shows 800 on their site.
So you are telling me that if I put 1k pounds of stuff in my camper, I am adding 1k pounds to the tongue weight? This doesn't make sense at all. Why would 100% of the weight in my extra cargo be added all to the tongue? I've never heard anyone explain it like this.
I just get very confused by what you said between the 3 minute and 55 seconds and 4 minutes and 15 seconds mark. I guess I don't understand why adding 200 tol 400 pounds of cargo would make the tongue weight jump from 700 to 1100 pounds
I’m concerned about two things. First, I think the tongue weight should be measured with the trailer sitting level, as it should be when hitched. Secondly, there is the matter of not having ENOUGH tongue weight which would introduce stability and sway problems. It make me wonder if anyone has any data on what is the correct amount of tongue weight based on the weight of what is being towed. We know that they are designed to transfer anywhere between 10% - 15% (or more) to the tow connection, but what is THE number? I know there are other factors involved but there should be some minimum number.
The minimum is 10 percent, I'm sure you could get away with 8 percent if you don't drive too fast or down big hills. At 5 percent and down hill chances are you are going to end up in the ditch.
Adding cargo to the camper doesn't equal all of that weight on the tongue. The only way it would all be on the tongue is if you added it all to the storage in the front of the camper. Also, your nose down on the camper which is pushing more weight to the front.
Can you please make another video, but take 200+ lbs of stuff with you and get the weight empty and with 200 lbs in the front storage area. I'm curious what % of the weight in the storage area goes into the tongue weight. Thx.
Here’s a serious question for you JD. Maybe I’m not thinking of all the engineering challenges but why don’t travel trailers have one axle at the front and one at the rear? So that it virtually removes payload from the equation.
Lol first it would be almost impossible to turn a trailer like that without destroying your tires and second you need to have a minimum of 10 percent tongue weight, more is even better, if you have less the trailer is going to sway all over the place and cause an accident.
