Want to see more Blind Wave Reactions to RWBY? Get up to 4 WEEKS Early Access at www.patreon.com/blindwave Get your Team REAC Merch HERE: blind-wave.myshopify.com/
Cinder’s contact picture for Neo is her looking annoyed, which means there’s an off camera scene where Cinder INSISTS that the two of them take pics for their contacts and Neo wants none of it.
Since everything is linked to the network it is possible that is her "profile" picture that gets added to anyone that has her as a contact... But the fact that it is with her current outfit would still mean she would have had to rely on Cinder to take the picture... And I am sure that would have annoyed her just as much.
It’s kinda cute (how I can possibly say that with what happened in chapter 14 is beyond me but still) it makes me wonder how our characters act off screen. Does cinder like.. crack jokes or stuff like that and actually try to converse with the others in her free time?
@@dracothephantomknight812 she probably acts the same but less preachy and attempting to be theatrical to compare to a percent of Tyrians power so it comes off more as "please be my friend, I'm desperate (for power)"
@@DigiCount I love the way while dangling he took his hands off her grimm arm when confronting Cinder. Like I dare you to drop me. You WILL listen to everything I have to say. Balls!
@@rosenthorn_ Yeah. Watts is afraid of dying, but once he is able to comprehend and accept that he is probably going to die, he just tries all he can to get one last jab in every time. Well... *_almost_* every time.
I love how in the span of the Whale blowing up, Neo took the time to send a message to Cinder, send a selfie of her with the lamp, and then finally taunted Cinder with her failure of keeping the lamp safe. Neo is the ultimate troll sometimes.
@@rosenthorn_ Good point. Now I'm just imagining Neo setting up the camera and taking multiple pictures, choosing a single one out of the bunch that would best represent the "middle finger" to Cinder.
@@daysand123 Yeah that's why I don't think she'll be redeemed, she's like roman. They only care for themselves and will stop at nothing to get what they want. Even before Roman died Neo has been shown smiling while trying to kill people... she's not right in the head basically.
Fantastic episode and I knew Eric would love that Watts scene ... Just a few things to clarify: - Neo's entire motivation was to get revenge for Roman Torchwick's death. Cinder had promised her Ruby in Volume 6, and in exchange she would help her in Atlas. But at this point Cinder only used Neo, stole her success and kept pushing their deal away ... and Neo is kinda fed up with that. - I would call Cinder anything, but a spoiled brat. She litarlly started at the bottom of the food chain, and was forced kill to get stronger. She has a strong power complex, since she was always held weak but she definitely isn't spoiled. - Cinder has a grimm paraside in her. It was a gift from Salem and she used it to forcefully take the powers from the previous Fall Maiden. After she lost her arm, the grimm parasite granted her a new arm. And with that arm she can still steal the powers from maidens. - Ruby's lie to Ironwood was three things: 1. Lied about the lamp 2. witholded the information that Salem was immortal and that Ozpin spended life time lying to them about a fight, that they couldn't win .... 3. scared he could also be a traitor like Lionheart (the Headmaster from Haven)
Ruby also lied about Ozpin's retreat. She said they didn't know why or how he disappeared, just that after the train accident he wasn't there anymore. Also Cinder clearly isn't a spoiled brat, but sure acts like one so them calling her that isn't surprising. Plus Salem kinda does spoil her given how easily she forgives her and how much good attention she gives to her compared to how she treats the rest of her underlings. I mean, she has failed twice, and only gotten harsh looks and words. Hazel reported on one failure that wasn't his fault, it was Cinder's, and Salem almost kills him.
Both good breakdowns and explanations. I would say that yeah, Cinder is not a spoiled brat. But she is more of an entitled brat. She never liked being under someone else's foot. Even back at the orphanage. The scenes were out of context, but I didn't feel like she was being bullied. More like she tried to take over the playground and impose her will on others. But didn't have the strength or skills to do so. Leaving her isolated and disgruntled. Leaving her to believe she can only get what she wants through force and violence. Yeah, Ruby did lie and mislead Ironwood on alot of things. The situation felt forced to me after a while. Like Ironwood was really being writen into a box to turn evil. I have often asked, what would have been the harm in being transparent with Ironwood early on? Granted I'd be cautious on first meet on what I reveal, seeing the condition of the kingdom, seeing Ironwood on big screens declairing Marshall Law. But after say chapter 3-4, when he has shown that though his actions are heavy handed, his heart and goals were in the right place. And that he implicitly trusted them. He just needed guidance. Instead RWBY practically poured gas on burning embers.
@@DocMicrowave I think if Team RWBY would have told him sooner, the situation wouldn't have really changed. At this point he was still very distrustfull torwards the Mantle and even his own people. If he was willing to consider marshall law as an option after the election, then imagine what he would have done if he found out about Salrm earlier. Yes, I know Oscar told him about Salem later, but that was at a point where he finally started to open up and trust the people of Atlas and Mantle. And if Ironwood would have found out earlier, that wouldn't have changed much story wise since Tyrian, Watts, Cinder and Neo were still in Atlas and he didn't know.
I agree on both your Cinder points, in a way she is spoiled but only by her own powers. Salem gave her something and she starts to get obsessed with it. To a point, where her arrogance got the better of her in many situations
@@batdestroyer0733 I agree that there is the possibility that it wouldn't have changed the outcome much. If that is the case, why not come clean with him earlier? Instead the action of lying to him became part of the recipe of him turning to the dark side. RWBY actually had his ear after a time. Talking him down from extreme actions. Including marshal law. Taking into consideration the plight of Mantle. As for Oscar telling him about Salem later. That was a big let down for me and I started seeing where the series was taking Ironwood. I guess I am kinda of biased. I after the initial lies, I was looking forward to seeing how Ruby and Ironwood handled the situation when Ruby finally came clean with him. But I was denied that. Every opportunity for that to happen was put off, deflected, or passed off to someone else. Until it was too late. I mean Ironwood having to hear the truth in the presence of Salem was a pretty big burn for him. That was absolutely the wrong time, place and situation for him to learn the truth. That's why I feel the plot railroaded him to that point.
Seeing people react to the explosion isn't getting old. :) It's funny because everyone was upset when the last episode ended without showing use what happened (including me) but then you get to see it here and it's like, "Oh, this is MUCH better!". And the music for that scene gives me goosebumps. Honestly, the score for this volume is really, really good in general.
Neo continues to be one of my favorite characters. Her little skip through the devastation is so funny. Also whenever Ironwood says the "Neither of us wanted it to come to that but one of us is willing to do it." line reminds me of Lord Farquaad's line of "Some of you may die, but it's a sacrifice I am willing to make." Also Team RWBY (But really Blake and Yang) kept secret that they let Robyn go when she was attacking the military.
Neo was recruited because she wanted to kill Cinder as vengeance for Torchwick but Cinder managed to convince her that it was Ruby that killed her boss, so now Neo wants Ruby.
Aaron, Cinder didn't get a cybernetic replacement on behalf of Salem, the Grimm arm can steal the Maiden powers. We've also seen that the Grimm arm can inflict pain so Salem could control her.
I'm betting that Grimm arm and/or grimm bug in Cinder is also how Salem keeps tabs on her. Maybe not with full detailed info like her exact whereabouts. But atleast knowing wheither Cinder is alive or not (if V6x5 was any indicator.)
@@DocMicrowave Yeah, I don't think the Shadow Hand allows Salem to do anything other than cause Cinder pain and know whether she is still alive or not. But with the Shadow Hand, Cinder possesses an ability that no one else in Remnant does: the ability to siphon and absorb magic. Who knows, if Cinder becomes strong enough, she could use that power on Salem herself.
@@TheGreater-ScopeVillain That is Cinder's biggest impediment. Her ego and thirst for power. I have said this for a long time now. I believe Cinder wants to dethrone Salem and take over as top dog. She does not like being subservient to any one. I believe she is under the false impression the once she gets all four maidens, that she will be more powerful than Salem and be able to topple her. Of course this can't happen. And Cinder's flawed plan and desire is perpetuated because she does Not know Salem's full background. The whole story. If she did, she would quit following Salem. All of her minions would. Salem has made sure to keep all of her minions in the dark about that. As well as her real plans. Giving Cinder that Grimm arm was just another way of controlling her. As well as a tool to steal the maiden's. Cinder herself is just a tool. Salem has been playing on Cinder's stupidity since she met her.
@@DocMicrowave I respectfully disagree. Not about the fact that Cinder wants to dethrone Salem, but about your statement that she wouldn't be able to do so even with all the Maidens' powers. I have said this for a long time now: You know what I've come to realise about Salem? People have been looking at her all wrong. She's not the unstoppable force that many in Remnant appear to view her as. Rather, she is the immovable object. As shown in "Witch", Salem is not the strongest fighter in Remnant, and she's _far_ from the fastest being in Remnant. Her body is weak and pliable, and she doesn't even appear to have Aura to protect her. But the thing that Salem has that makes her so dangerous is her immortality, which allows her to just _keep coming back_ . She may not be as skilled as you in a fight, you may smash her face in and gut her numerous times, but she will just regenerate over and over again, until you eventually tire out. Besides her intelligence, that's where Salem's true strength lies - not in the threat that she'll overwhelm you with spindly Grimm arms and giant blasts of rainbow light, but in the seeming inevitability of her getting back up like a freshly reanimated zombie to fight again and again. However, very interestingly, V8 Chapter 9 “Witch” has exposed some crippling weaknesses in Salem. As previously mentioned, she has been overwhelmed in terms of physical strength and vastly outpaced in terms of speed. Despite her immortality, her weak and pliable body and seeming lack of Aura allows her to be rather quickly and easily torn apart and briefly incapacitated, with the regeneration process of her immortality being rather slow. She was taken by surprise on multiple occasions, and numerous hits were landed on her. Even a cane-less Oscar managed to stagger Salem, hurting her and almost bringing her to her knees with merely a small blast of magic from his hands. If Salem can be affected to such a degree - to the point of near-incapacitation - by a magical attack that weak, how much more damage could the power of a Maiden or 2 (or 4) do to her? On top of that, despite her magic and Grimm abilities, Salem has virtually _zero_ combat training compared to almost every other character in the entire series. Given what we've seen in this episode alone, if a skilled warrior such as Cinder manages to obtain the powers of all four Seasonal Maidens - thus becoming the "All-Maiden" - they may very well be able to defeat Salem. After all, the All-Maiden is essentially Prime-Ozma, who despite being devastated at Salem's fall to darkness and the loss of their children, was even then still able to overpower and reduce Salem's entire body to ashes during their fight. Cinder has a particular chance of victory in this situation not only due to her fighting skills being second only to Ozma’s, but due to the fact that she's also the main fire-user in RWBY, and we all saw how the fire of a simple tiny Dust crystal caused Salem immense amounts of pain when Hazel literally burnt the witch at the stake. Furthermore, in addition to all this magic (and her own unique magic-siphoning abilities), Cinder would also have both her Aura and her Semblance, two things that Salem does not possess. And besides, Cinder is not simply after the powers of the Maidens, she is also after the powers of the Relics as well - as she said, she wants it all. So after becoming the All-Maiden, Cinder taking about 2 or 3 Relics for herself will boost her power that much more.
@@DocMicrowave Regarding your point about the villains not knowing Salem's plans, I don't think that it really matters to Cinder at all what Salem's true intentions are, even if she doesn't have any theories about them herself. As we both agree on, Cinder plans to betray Salem before she can fulfil her plans anyway, and so it doesn't matter to Cinder what those plans are; whether Salem plans to rule the world or destroy it is completely irrelevant in Cinder's view, the Dark Maiden doesn't plan to let Salem get that far regardless. Cinder may be willing to surrender two Relics to Salem *_for now_* to ensure Salem's continued support, but there is no way that Cinder intends to let Salem possess all four at once. Cinder is under no delusions that Salem is using her - Salem's verbal and physical abuse of Cinder is enough of an indication even if she didn't already know - and Cinder herself is using Salem in turn. Even if Cinder knew the full extent of Salem's backstory, it wouldn't change her plans to stick with Salem and use her to obtain the power she desires. If anything, it would only provide Cinder with information that she could leverage to her own advantage. Knowledge about the world of Remnant and Cinder's enemies, and also to convince villains like Watts, Hazel and Mercury to turn from Salem and side with her instead. And knowledge of Salem's children could've been useful for Cinder to employ against Salem in the future, for example, through Emerald's Semblance. But regardless, it's true that all the villains who were loyal to Salem would turn against her if they knew that she intended to have the Gods destroy the world in the hopes of them ending her own life. All except Tyrian. Tyrian already knows that Salem intends to destroy the world, but being the crazy lunatic he is, he doesn't care. Rather, this knowledge is the source of Tyrian's devotion to Salem.
Neo want's Ruby dead because she holds Ruby responsible because last she saw Torchwick he was fighting Ruby; she didn't see Torchwick beating Ruby with his cane until a Grimm showed up behind him and ate him.
@@DocMicrowave Yes but she didn't see when Torchwick knocked Crescent Rose out of her hands and then just started whacking her while Ruby curled up in a ball right before his brief speech before being eaten which is what I was referring to.
Here’s the other thing to think about with Ironwood’s plan for elevating Atlas: it’s really not plausible anymore. The defensive Hard Light shield perimeter was ruined by Salem’s Grimm geyser, the farmlands with all the food they would have used to survive in the upper atmosphere have become a battlefield for Monstra and thus probably is diminished, and most importantly Salem herself is now aboard Atlas so flying up wouldn’t help at all cuz she’s already here and it wouldn’t be an escape
Yep I have yet to understand what his plan was after the whale incident. I mean the whole reason for not letting evacuate mantle was to not let Salem's ppl get to atlas which already happened. So there's no reason anymore for anything of what he does. It no longer is a way of saving atlas nor the staff. His moves are "a way" to get to the staff if you don't care about the rest of ppl, but the staff no longer is the answer so useless actions.
That kinda makes sense and at the same times makes every one on the hero side be without any kind of plans at this point. If Atlas is no longer safe because Monstro and Salem landed on it, why are even team RWBY trying to evacuate the people from Mantle to Atlas? And what do they plan to do if they succesfully did that? Then they would fight Salem's forces?
There were two major "lies." The double speak about the lamp being out of questions was one but not mentioning that they'd discovered Salem's immortality was the other major secret. Y'all have already watched enough to know this by now, I'm sure, but Neo wants revenge (Ruby). Also I wouldn't say Cinder acts like a spoiled brat. She's not really spoiled in the slightest. She DOES act like a child, though, and that makes sense.
There was also a lie about Ozpin's absence, to which Ironwood responded that that was 'the worst news yet'. And Yang and Blake blabbing to Robyn about the tower didn't help.
So According the RoosterTeeh Ironwood's semblance is passive like Qrow's, Ironwood's Semblance, mettle , basically stills his emotional thought in order to remain clam and tactical in a stressful situation, hence why he comes off as cold and mechanical. His semblance may be overcompensating here and giving Ironwood tunnel vision as far as his goals are concerned blinding him to alternative options and making him act so inhumanly. Still doesn't excuse what he's doing.
@@jetblazethunder3596 It's not great writing for sure. I mean they showed us Ren's Semblance pretty well in Volume 4, but they can't gives us one scene for Ironwood? Unless it's suppose to be a big twist at some point but even so...
For Qrow transforming his clothing and what not, I'm assuming he transforms whatever he is wearing and carrying, as we've seen him transform while carrying both his scythe and Ospin's cane. I'm sure there are limitations.
My best guess is it is anything that his aura encompasses. We know that their aura extends around their clothing and can be extended to their weapons, so this makes the most logical sense to me for the rules on what comes with Qrow and what doesn't when he transforms.
I just use D&D wild shape rules, anything equipped, merges with his bird form. A bomb that requires 4 ppl to carry isn't equipable (unless your full dust powered Hazel)
Also if you notice what Oscar/Ozpin did they didn't do a nuke what they did was a blast of energy like a Kamehameha but has a large Blast wave which can confuse people thinking that it was a nuke.
About your question regarding the rules of what Qrow can take with him when he transforms I would assume it would be anything he can coat in his aura such as his clothes and weapon. While that bomb idea is actually kind of brilliant I suspect it's too large for him to actually do that.
The Grimm arm is how Cinder takes the Maiden powers, it uses similar stuff to the Grimm parasite Cinder used in V3. It also gives Salem control over Cinder.
The three major points of tension team RWBY built up was the lie about the relic, they didn’t tell him Salem was immortal until after the fact, Blake and Yang told Robyn their Amity plan and let her get away without anybody’s approval. Lack of info, lies, and disloyalty. Not saying Ironwood is right, but I see how he steadily got to the point of not caring about what they want.
All of that would justify him deciding not to work with them anymore, or removing them from the circle of trust. None of it justifies him sabotaging them and using Watts against Penny.
@@DigiCount Also turning into a dictator who kills anyone who goes against him and using a bomb threat (which he broadcasted to everyone to try and force the people to hate them) as a way to get what he wants while giving nothing in return.
@@DigiCount I disagree on the Salem bit, ultimately they did decide to tell him, they just wanted to be sure to start. Also though Ironwood was rather stubborn in refusing to even attempt to talk to Robyn Hill about something as basic as getting a tower built. Yeah he didnt want it to be risking sabotage but Robyn was a well known figure, a trusted hero to the people of Mantle. If Ironwood got Robyn on his side instead of fighting her every step of the way, her team would have been useful. Robyn can detect lies or Spies, Fiona can transport double or triple the supplies maybe more depending how much she can store. Robyn could also calm Mantle down. Blake and Yang saw that in Robyn, she wanted to help, but Ironwoods stubbornness led to a divide.
IW: "If I destroy everything you're fighting for you have to help me right?" It's like he's never heard of spite, vengeance, or having nothing to lose. His defining moment of insecurity and paranoia for me is when the possibility of a former friend/ally (Qrow) turning against him and escaping is more important to him than anything else. It's personal and he takes it personally, then tries to pin it as the most rational and objective thing.
Given his position, the bomb threat is the best option for Atlas. It's the worst for mantle and possibly the world as it puts both parties that could fight salem against each other, but it's the best course for Atlas specifically. And to him, saving atlas means keeping the relic permanently out of salem's hands and therefore saving humanity (condemning the rest of humans left in the world, but he's already given up on them). It's the option that would kill more ppl, but it's the option with the best chances of success for atlas. He isn't using the bomb for personal reasons, his semblance literally prevents him from doing that. He's so focused on saving atlas he's lost sight of everything else which is kinda his whole thing, heartless tin man. Plus, let's have a moment of hypothesis. Do you think team RWBY and Penny would attack atlas out of spite or vengeance if that bomb dropped? I doubt it. And definately they wouldn't go the "I have nothing left to lose" route, they literally have all their loved ones somewhere else.
@@Acepunydefoc i mean you're 100% right. In this situation he has come up with the best thing that's capable of being done. But he does say, "if there's no mantle than there's no reason for you to not help me" and I think his semblance is blinding him to the other sums of the equations, where his enemies don't help... because of, what is to us, obvious reasons. Maybe he was even able to dictate through logic that they wouldn't based on their personalities but it's stuff like this that feeds into his loyalty problem and control freak tendencies. He constantly underestimates people, on his side or against him because they are outside his equations, and outside of the box he puts them in. No one man can see everything that needs to be seen to make an unfallible plan. Ozpin can't.
Whats funny about Ironwood's plan is that the plan currently cannot work. His idea was to get the city higher into the air far beyond Salem's reach. Uh well, Salem is already on Atlas. Raising the city now won't do anything. Also, Ironwood needs to watch Thor Ragnorok. To quote Odin; "Asgard is not a place, its a people. Wherever our people live, that is Asgard.". Atlas is not the rock it sits on, its the people that make it up. Also can we talk about how Watts was a total savage this episode? Watts called it like it was. Beautiful.
Your not wrong completely and someone correct me if I'm wrong. But I'm pretty sure it's been stated that Grimm can't survive in the upper, upper atmosphere. So if I'm correct and Grimm can't survive up there even if Salem's up their she wouldn't have an army which Salem with out her army. Ironwood would 'probably?' be able to kick Salem off Atlas. Again I might wrong so if I am please correct me.
Just found out RT talked about Ironwoods semblance before. I’m gonna butcher the description but it basically gives him the will to see any challenges through to the end no matter what. Look into. It “kinda” humanizes him but it’s also cool to see it through his eyes to.
Neo wants Ruby's head. She initially wanted Cinder's, blaming her for Torchwick's death. But Cinder pointed to Ruby. Cinder's grimm arm is also a leash cuz Salem can hurt her through it.
Most people don’t know this because it’s NEVER been mentioned in the show, but Ironwood’s semblance strengthens his resolve and practically makes him tunnel visioned when he sets himself on a goal, which in this situation is saving his kingdom from an extinction level event. His semblance is what is pushing him to absurd extremes like threatening to bomb Mantle, but again, they NEVER bring this up in the show and instead decided to reveal it behind the scenes. Seems like a pretty important thing to know
Guys, in the weeks of the episode comming out, I had not heard the "Qrow grabs bomb, turn to bird, drop bomb away" plan a single time, this is why you guys are amazing, that plan is fucking wild.
The whole situation with Mantle is that they don't have time (at this point the resources) to evacuate Mantle to Atlas. Which Ironwood initially was on board for until Salem showed up. But Team RWBY didn't even want to leave in general not just Mantle but Atlas too. They wanted to fight and hold out for help from the rest of the world...which was completely unrealistic. Honestly the best compromise would've been to let Atlas escape and have whomever wanted to defend Mantle.
Not unrealistic really, Ironwood has just constantly cut the necessary ties for it to have worked. Team RWBY & ORNJ tried to defend mantle and leave Ironwood to Mantle but he demanded he gets everything if they leave. Lamp, maiden, Crow, and Penny and their trust, while HE SHOT OSCAR.
They wanted to save Mantle and Atlas. Not stand and fight no matter what. If Ironwood had agreed to finish the evacuation of Mantle before leaving, they'd have helped him do that. But he was insistent on abandoning Mantle to die.
Okay, his entire plan was doomed to fail because Salem’s only goal is to divide humanity. Atlas leaving would’ve been the nail in the coffin. Salem has literally all the time in the world to figure out how to get Atlas back on the ground.
RWBY is a show that they seem to forget about between each volume. I understand they got a lot on their plate, but what good are those notes if you never read em?
yeah the big criticism of this volume was that Ironwood's fall to villainy wasn't handled well. I personally agree, and he used to be my favorite character. Now though the show writes him as a heartless villain.
I disagree. From the beginning, Ironwood had control problems. He openly challenged Ozpin (not exactly uncalled for, but the points Oz had were valid and ended up coming to fruition in the end). Ultimately, the Fall of Beacon went off so well because everything he did played right into Salem’s hands. In the aftermath, what did he say? “If only Oz had listened to me”. He didn’t learn a thing from what happened, and was doomed to repeat his mistake.
Hard disagree. I think they handled him just fine. He was always about control and doing anything and everything to accomplish his mission. That was established early on. If he just turned evil for the sake of being evil then I'd agree with you but he's a villain only in the sense that he's trying to defeat Salem but crosses a line.
@@JamesWiseMagic I wouldn't say that control is his goal, but rather that he sees it as a means to keep his people safe. In terms his actions, executing another member of the council for asking what's going on is not something at all in chatacter for him. The writers decided between seasons to change him from the antihero set up in 7's finale to a secondary villain of 8 without doing any extra legwork in show to justify the jump. All we got was the writers revealing he has a semblance that let's him ignore the emotional consequences of his choices... which if anything further brings to question why so many of his actions in volume 8 feel driven by emotion.
Atlas is done no matter what dumb ads Ironwood does now because Salem is already on it so she will reform there even if Atlas is raised high. His idea is over.
but how could he have done anything other than what he was ordered to? it's not like he was a genius programmer who was guarded by people who wouldn't have the slightest clue what he was typing out, :get relic and self terminate: frankly i'm surprised he didnt have her write out in the sky "i can't believe ironwood let me do this" as part of it all
Why wouldn't Ironwood just offer to bring all the people of Mantle to Atlas so they could all escape when Penny opened the vault? His actions since the end of volume 7 make absolutely no sense, and he's the worst part of this volume
Because he’s a paranoid, devolving control freak, who can’t stand having to do what others want to get what he wants. Also he has never considered Mantle his problem and he isn’t going waste Atlas resources on them.
The ego of Cinder, Penny stomped her butt at the Coliseum, and only Emerald prevented Penny from killing Cinder. But now she is going to rip the power out of Penny? She is STUPID. Luckily for her Watts checked her ego.
Ironwood’s problem is his semblance. He has a passive semblance called “mettle” which makes him more determined in reaching a goal. So he’s being tunnel-visioned by his own power. For some reason they didn’t mention it in the volume.
Common misconception, Mettle strengthens his resolve to see his decisions through, it does not make decisions for him. Mettle is the reason why he rarely, if ever, changes his mind or backs down from something, but the real issues with Ironwood that the show focused on is why he makes the decisions he does in the first place. Paranoia, arrogance, self-righteousness, these among others are the qualities that truly define who Ironwood is and why he chose the path he did. That said, because Mettle has never been properly explained, I can understand the confusion. It’s still better than trying to say Ironwood’s antagonistic turn happened because a bunch of teenagers lied to him.
Ironwood's Semblance explains his actions a little bit more. Its not explained in the show ever so I just hope you guys read this. Its called Mettle and it gives him the ability to strengthen his resolve so that he follows through with the decisions that he's made. So basically when he decided to use the staff to raise Atlas into the atmosphere, his Semblence is helping him carry out his plan and no one will be able to change his mind.
So it's not really a spoiler since it's just info released around this time in the volumes release, but a lot of ironwood's decision making is his semblance's fault. It basically allows him to focus on one goal and block out anything else. Basically indomitable willpower and focus. And much like qrow, he can't control how or when it activates.
For what I've heard it's not that he can't controll how or when, but that it is always activated and accentuates in stress situations. It doesn't randomly happen like Qrow's.
Technically he wouldn't leave mantle to die, he'd leave them to fend for themselves. Mantle did survive in the cold weather before atlas' stuff was there, and grimm would chase after the relics, not the ppl there (at least the huge army of grimm). I mean, yeah, not that it's a choice, but it's not death. I mean, wasn't that what Robyn's huntresses wanted after Robyn was taken away? At the very least that one that lashed out to Weiss.
Gee Winter thanks for handing a crazy General a city ending nuke. Fuuuuuuccckkkkk I'm sorry I hate him as a villian. Like it was always doing what was necessary for the greater good this is no longer the greater good
Apparently it has been said that Ironwood's semblance is what drives him insane because it doesn't allow him to make a human decision and he instead makes the logical "sacrifice the few to save the many" decisions like a machine. His plan makes sense in a statistical way but not in a human way, he would rather bomb Mantle rather than betting the fate of the world on uncertainty and a group of kids but it makes him a terrible human being.
Man, watts is such a badass and my favorite villain/neo #2 Spoiler: To bad he got screwed over just like torchwick. & cinder (imo) threw away any remaining sympathy I might have had for her now I just can’t wait for her to die
I had hoped for that before but now she’s burned that bridge & like I said above any sympathy I may have had is gone for me after this season. Imo no redemption even managing to kill Salem could make up for all she’s done. But that’s just me, I’m not gonna hate/quit the show if they do redeem her
Great lighting with the explosion, but not as great as the rooftop conversation, they both excelled in their performances. And after nearly *five frickin' volumes* (and two big fuckups), Cinder *finally* realizes that she can't brute force everything because she's a maiden. I like how everyone Oz ever hit with that cane contributed to the power Oscar unleashed. Meanwhile, Ironwood finishes another chapter of the Tome of Treachery and follows it to the letter. After all the ambivalence since volume 2, his behaviour this volume is the most disappointing. Neo doesn't disappoint, though... because a pretty plot device is all she's ever been. Intending to kill Yang in cold blood is the most character she's ever shown. Maybe they'll do something about that, next volume? Still waiting to see if she's the last Brunswick.
I mean, in a broad stroke? It works. But sleep deprivation and paranoia have made the method of carrying out the plan no longer viable. Let alone the notion Salem is - in fact - on Atlas now. So trying to pull into the sky wouldn't help.
Ironwood's plan to save only a small, rich part of the place he was tasked to help, using the power of the guy he shot (trying to kill) because he thinks that it is better to give up the world and save a tiny amount of it people. Not to mention he doesn't know if Salem can't reach him up there, she has true magical powers just like Oz (whose magic is what he is trying to use to escape her)
@@kereminde and it's not clear what happens next. Salem can keep a siege going indefinitely, while making a play for the other relics. If mighty Atlas runs away, the other kingdoms are more likely to try to avoid destruction by giving up their relic, Raven's line of thinking. Since virtually no-one knows about Judgement Day it would look like a gamble to consider.
@@morlock2012 I meant, no, she was on the whale when it blew, and she is reforming - if she reforms where she fell, then it's ON ATLAS. She's already there and is more than enough to seize Atlas and break it. Point is, Ironwood can no longer move Atlas out of her reach. His plan is no longer viable, but he hasn't actually thought about that yet. (It might have been viable, at the time when it was presented at the end of Volume 7. But the thing with the river and a waterspout upwards? I'm ... skeptical Salem could have not reached Atlas.)
@@kereminde sorry, yes, I got that and agree with it. Poorly constructed response. But even if Ironwood had managed to raise Atlas before the whale landed, seems it would only delay the inevitable.
Ironwood wasn't keeping secrets. Ruby lied about the lamp and not knowing what happened to Ozpin. Blake and Yang went behind everyone's back to tell Robyn about their plans.
Spot on! Ironwood was as open and transparent to RWBY & Co. as possible. Bringing them into his inner circle. Entrusting them with secret plans and tactics. Equipping them with Atlas tech. The narrative coming out of V7 was to be "Ironwood Bad". Then when RT caught wind of sympathy among some fans in the fandom for Ironwood's predicament and situation, They decided to ramp up (x10) the narrative going into V8 to drive home the idea "Ironwood REALLY REALLY Bad" to get the fandom inline. imo
@@DocMicrowave Volume 8 was written before V7 finished airing. Ironwood was always on this path. They didn't change things because people liked Ironwood.
@@PhoenixFire2 That doesn't mean they didn't go back and 'tweak' the script as needed if they realized there were issues in logic, continuity, etc. RT has a record of going back to 'fix' things well after the fact. There are plenty of examples of this in previous volumes. Particularly when they posted episodes on RU-vid. There are episodes that had various issues in them. But RT corrected them, well after the fact, and then posted the fixed versions on the RT site. I was always able to tell which version a reactor was watching just by seeing the differences. Just my opinion, but I think it very likely that the completed V8 script was tweaked, adjusted. Even while airing. It does not take allot of rewriting to add an extra 5 second shot of, say shooting an unarmed civilian in the first episode, to help drive home the narrative. imho
@@PhoenixFire2 @Duchess of Lemon That random shooting of Councilman Sleet did not sit well with me. It came off as a gratuitous attempt to show how really really evil Ironwood is now. To remind the fandom in case they forgot the ending events of V7. It didn't help my assertion to know that there were many in the fandom (myself included) that came out of V7 feeling like Ironwood got a raw deal in the writing. That he was railroaded on this path. The fact that he shot Sleet and not Camila also came off as unrealistic to me. That even in depicting a random death, RT has to remain PC. There are some lines they won't cross. If they really had to show Ironwood as being even worse than expected, why not shoot both? It is illogical to leave a potential civilian witness alive who could cause trouble in the populous. Or he could have just imprisoned both if he really wanted them out of the way. That scene just came off as forced as Yang and Blake having to set Marrow straight about the harmless and logical suggestion that they get some practice working with other people. An obvious dig at any bumblebee naysayers coming out of V6. Hence my belief that RT pays close attention to the fandom and when they sense that some might not be fully onboard with the narrative they set forth, they react with seemingly out-of-place or in-your-face scenes that try to set the record straight. Some say Ironwood was destined to go this route. And that may be true, if left to his own vices. But that could happen to anyone who doesn't have some kind of external support to lead them way from the wrong path. Ironwood not only did not have that support from others he put trust in, those others actively worked to undermine him. Assuring that he would be locked on this path. Of course, this is just my opinion. But that's how I see it. RT really needed Ironwood to be the big bad of V8. Even kept Salem, who is supposed to be the biggest bad, in the background this volume. And completely moving her off the scene after episode 10 so that Ironwood could 'shine'. It all felt just a bit too forced to me.
I wish they handle ironwood turning better. He was such a good character but they needed a villain so they said “Who needs personality traits that He had in the early volumes. Let’s just make him insane.”
Personality traits like undermining Oz with the Council and usurping his power. Like treating every situation like a contest measuring dicks? Traits like those? Oh wait......
@@jeffreysmith236 no like having actually empathy. He always tried to do the right thing. Remember when beacon was getting attacked he told the students they could fight or run and no one would blame the for running. Remember when he took responsibility for his robots being hacked and took control of the situation, remember when he defended Weiss after she lost control of her semblance. Even when he “undermined” ozpin he was still trying to do the right thing, Protect people. Remember in volume 7 when told robin the truth and was actually trying to work together for a time. I’m not saying he was perfect I’m saying that the way the writers treated him like he was always a psycho. Which he wasn’t.
Uh, so do we wanna discuss Ironwood’s semblance? Because it may or may not be a narrative flaw XD For those that don’t watch the podcasts Ironwood actually does have a semblance. His semblance is “iron resolve” basically he doesn’t back down and has tunnel vision on anything he has his mindset on. Keep in mind this means that he basically has a semblance similar to Ren where it effects his personality. Now this is just confusing. First it’s basically a personality based semblance which is odd because it’s more of a trait that literally anyone can have and oh yeah, it kind of undermines literally everything about Ironwoods story including what he’s doing XD Because if his semblance is brought up in the show ( I honestly can’t see how they can’t since it’s a main part of his character unless RWBY recons it. ) then he technically can’t be blamed for his decent, because depending on how this is reveled and handled it’s not completely in his control. It’s literally not him loosing it but his semblance fucking with his head. Similar to Qrow’s. It’s an unfortunate semblance that can work to his advantage and disadvantage.
No, his semblance is Mettle, it strengthens his resolve which allows him to carry through with his decisions, helping James hyper-focus. Thematically, it hardens him but his decisions are still his own. Apparently you missed the entire picture; it's not about blame. The tragedy is that learning of Lionheart's betrayal, but also through Watts' and Cinder's mindgames encouraged his paranoia, in his own words "always chasing shadows" which led to his drastic decisions.
@@johanliebert9872 No I didn't miss anything, because until the crew explains the exact affects of a personality semblance it's a legitimate narrative flaw. Depending on how it's explained his semblance can be in grained into his personality like Ren's, which causes him to default into hiding his emotions. That's why personality semblances are confusing to me because where's the limit? The psychological effects yeah know.
@@SamuraiBre No offence, I don't want to spent a long time arguing with someone with a mindset of "I didn't miss anything" but your misguided concern appears to be how Mettle affected Ironwood's agency when it's still him making the decisions and him strengthening his own resolve resulting from the threats he perceived.
@@johanliebert9872 The dissonance between a personality semblance and the psychological effects it has on the person with it has yet to be explained. So technically, it's debatable on how much that becomes ingrained into one's personality. Again using Ren ( who also has a personality based semblance ) as an example. So until the crew does dive more into it, the flaw is still there. I'm not arguing, I'm discussing.
@@SamuraiBre Ren's semblance doesn't force his personality trait it comes from it. His desire to hide and be unnoticed formed his semblance, but that logic (since you want to extrapolate that how one person interacts with something forms a basis for others) Ironwood's semblance formed because of his unwillingness to back down and admit he was wrong easily. So he makes a decision and sticks to it, something comes up that makes him feel iffy about his idea but he decides no I was right, his semblance kicks in and say 'yes you were right they can't see the big picture,' he makes more decision going down that part until something else pops up, rinse and repeat.
Ironwood has been cornered by liars, traitors and incompetents, he has tried over and over again to do the right thing, and has been countered by supposed allies. Be it team ruby doing their damndest to disrupt him, aces being either unable or unwilling to actually complete any orders given... time and again ... truth be told I'm with Ironwood.... BURN THEM ALL!!!
if he used 10% of that boom boom pow cane power during any 1 of the tons ot smacks to the face he gave cinder with that cane in their fights, we sure could have prevented a lot of this, and sent the fall maidens power to a random person instead of the hands of an enemy
Ironwood has continued his move down his descent. He is holding Mantle hostage not just because he knows Salem will come back, but also because there’s an ENORMOUS Grimm river beneath Atlas that shot like 80 worms in to take out the shield for the whale. If anything that’s worse than the whale. All things considered the whale didn’t do much damage other than deliver Salem’s team to Atlas. This paranoia has been building since they hacked his phone in volume...2? I want to say 2. Watts was expected to escape with Cinder as he is Salem’s lapdog. Jacque Schnee isn’t a threat at all with no authority so the biggest worries would be the rogue hunters and huntresses as he prepares to get Atlas away from the Grimm river.
"This paranoia has been building since they hacked his phone in volume...2?" It existed then, and was shown when the CCT at Beacon got hacked, but we got a glimpse of how bad it might get at the end of Volume 2 where he basically used the incident of the train crash as leverage to push Ozpin out of control of the Vytal Festival. And showed only token remorse. When he discovered someone had helped hack Atlas military systems during the Fall of Beacon... well that was probably what started it REALLY building. Because the question was then: "who helped them?" with "so who can I trust didn't do that..." following behind.
@@kereminde I mean fair. But that’s when I really started noticing. It went from large amounts of caution to paranoia when he was hacked. And that evolved into hysterical panic which is what we see now. The man is not doing well.
@@Kaempfdog He's also not slept yet. I do keep bringing this up across reactions because it's hard to keep in mind just from the show but... ... everything after the Schnee dinner party happens in sequence. There's not been much "downtime" between what we see, and many of the events are happening concurrently. Which means it's not clear when the last time Ironwood slept. And I can say, after 24 hours of not sleeping I get REAL irritable and overreact quite a bit to even minor things. And I'm not trying to run an army, academy, and dealing with half the shit Ironwood is.
@@kereminde that’s also true. I wasn’t really complaining about Ironwood. Everyone thinks it’s sudden when it really never was. And also that he was a mustache twirling villain or whatever but he’s just an EXHAUSTED man.
@@Kaempfdog Agreed... he's the picture of "a villain who thinks he's the hero of another story". It's also interesting to take a long look and notice the unfortunate signs before we watch Ironwood cross the line. (And the next one, and the next one...) Look at how he treats the Beacon crew, even back in Volume 2 when Ruby is caught in the middle of it. He praises her initiative, and tries to build trust in him. Volume 4 when he meets Weiss, he offers her a place at the academy warmly and backs her up at the party when her summoning is done involuntarily. Come Volume 7 he unilaterally gives all the Beacon crew licenses from Atlas, and sets them up to shadow the Ace Ops as well. All his moves are as manipulative as Ozpin's have been, and serve the goal to foster trust and loyalty to him. He has good intentions, for sure, but... it's the same playbook with a VERY big stick for punishing those who get out of line.
