IT was in the mid 1980's that ATF made a determination that the barricade buster as well as the bean bag rounds were classified as destructive devices. Owners had a choice of registering and paying the $5 tax per round or disposing of them. All 40mm guns are registered as an NFA weapon, while the 37mm guns remain classified as a non firearm like a muzzle loader. Most of the rounds I've obtained used a shotgun #209 primer not a .38 caliber blank. A practice round was also sold that consisted of a 1-1/4" or 1-3/8" wooden dowel, a wool wad and were loaded with 25 grains of black powder. Still wouldn't want to get hit with the dowel.
@@wthk1-teito That is correct. All 37mm rounds are now smoke, tear gas, CS , CN, or flares. Here's the caviot, ,BATFE can change the classification on these guns because they can regulate any device having a bore diameter over .500". This is the major reason I won't purchase a 50BMG rifle. I'm not a lawyer, so before going off of what I post, check your local and current federal regulations.
@@gungadinn After a quick google it looks like you can't buy any rounds for them, all the sellers will only sell to federal agencies. Seems pointless to buy if you can't use it, yeah...
The phrase “Less lethal rather than Non-lethal” is one of the reasons the British Army didn’t get the ARWEN 37 to replace its single shot 37mm launchers during the troubles in Northern Ireland, even though that was what the ARWEN had been designed for, the British Government had seen how much condemnation the army received for using these single shot weapons and didn’t want to find out how much worse it might turn out if the army were to use a five shot repeating weapon to do the same task.
@Brotato Chip "dumbass civilians always cry about" I hope insulting people criticizing deaths via police brutality helps your psyche deal with the reality of their actions. The lack of training is essentially negligent homicide at a government level.
If I remember correctly, two big issues with the use of rubber bullets in NI was that they were designed to be fired into the ground in front of the target, to then bounch into them at roughly chest height. The projectile imparts significantly more force if you fire directly at the target - which soldiers didn't always care about. They also maimed a lot of kids and teenagers because the bouncing bullets would hit around the head height of a kid (chest high on an adult) and cause blindness and shattered skulls.
say that something is Non-leathal. some shithead will test to shoot a person in the head. at close range. even as you told them you shouldn´t. Missused that way anything can be leathal.
From the 1900- 2000 you could carry a gas pistiol in Germany without a licence, and you still can buy them. But current amunition ( 9 mm Pak and 9mm for Revolver ) contains not many tear gas.
The fin-stabilized projectiles and the rubber ended models were doctrine to be used in barricaded or persons hiding in buildings. From what I've read and was told, the fin-stabilzed projectile would be used as Ian stated to shoot through barricaded windows. I was also told that these would also go through un reinforced external walls. Te rubber tipped would reliably go through normal glazed windows, however. I was also told that at the rages over 50 yards, the 'regular' gas cylinders would brake the glass, but could be caught by venetian blinds and would not reliably enter the building. When I was working as an EMT/Paramedic, in the 1970s strikes and riots were not too common, but the law enforcement organizations in my region/area had enough barricaded subjects to make having a tool to help extricate the person or persons from a building without requiring forceable entry of the law enforcement personnel and possible resulting more serious life threatening injuries. I've treated persons who have been subject to being gassed in an enclosed space, and have treated persons who have been shot. I'd rather be gassed than shot.
The problem is that some people are immune to even military CS gas. One guy in my boot camp division (1 of about 200 of us) annoyed the instructor, and got to stand there in the room with his mask off while all the rest of us got to take our masks off, try to talk, and leave.
I know the fin stabilized gas rounds would easily break through two panes of exterior glass and put a dent in the drywall/ceiling. When pepper spray/gas became popular our swat teams changed to a dry formula OC which made follow up work inside a room or building pretty miserable.
Have been exposed to gas myself and 10/10 would agree. Have not been shot but also 10/10 agree. People always freak out with the gas because it sucks but once you're no longer exposed to it you're completely fine usually. Can't speak to being trapped in an enclosed space with the gas but I can imagine it is a strong deterrent to escalating to physical confrontation. You're probably out for the count after that.
Take away a mans rifle and he uses his pistol. Take away his pistol and he uses his knife. Take away his knife and he uses his hands. Take away his hands and uses his teeth. Take away all that and be astonished by his creativity.
@@bernardroth a world exists where collective bargaining is both a necessary leveler of the playing field and a KGB plot to overthrow United States. It's called our world. 😅 Poor guy. A pawn in a game he probably didn't even know he was playing.
I thank Ian for continuing to be frank about the specific capabilities of "less than lethal" weapons and for explaining what that term means. There is always a risk when you are loosing off percussion caps in people's faces, communist or otherwise.
I know what you're thinking: "Did he fire one shot or only zero?" Well, to tell you the truth, in all this excitement, I've kinda lost track myself. But being this is a 37mm gas launcher, the least lethal N-frame in the world, and would blow your lungs clean out, you've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do you, punk?
I remember getting hold of a little book from my dad (police officer) as a child right around 1995-ish It was about special tools, handguns, vehicles etc used and still beeing used. There was a category for riot controls. They where not fooling around at that time. Less lethal rubber bullets in 40mm. "Less lethal wooden bullets" also in 40mm. Fired from a launcher from HK. A device which looked like a flamethrower, but filled with tear-gas. (The operator of course had a gasmask.) Aaaand I remember an armoured vehicle ("Sonderwagen, Radpanzer or Räumwagen") with an HK21 on top. Wild times...
@@Jamie-kg8ig I wouldn't be worried about the splinters. Sure they'd blind you if they got an eye, but the mass of a 40mm wooden bullet would easily break bones at that velocity. I think you'd lose too much of the energy in the initial impact for the splinters to be lethal.
I remember the "flamethrower" gas dispenser. The maker sold a bunch but it was one of those machines that never seemed to work when you really needed it. We had several prison riots in the late 70's-early 80's and I watched as prison staff valiantly tried to start the thing but it refused. They certainly could have used it if it worked as advertised as an entire wing top to bottom was loose and on the rampage setting fires and assaulting everyone.
For some reason I own a Rossi Circuit Judge, the carbine Judge pistol thing. It has a standard Judge grip the stock fits on. It would be kinda a waste of a tax stamp on a Judge but on one of the raging series like the .454 Casull, might be worth it!
@Dawson Granger In a non-anonymous public forum? Anyone who doesn't like getting their dog shot. Don't go borrowing trouble, man. Times are interesting enough as is.
i’ve put a lot of impact rounds through one of those on prison yards. it used wooden or hard rubber blocks. you skip fired those so they would stay low and hit the legs. if there was a weapon involved you could shoot it directly if you wanted to before you used your rifle. less paper work. these used a shotgun primer and a small charge of black powder.
@@VeraTR909 If they are shooting criminals with live ammo that's exactly the right way. It's about stopping the criminal. Of course you shouldn't shoot a thief or criminal who doesn't endanger others and also shouldn't have a trigger finger that's too loose.
According to sellers of less-lethal projectiles, within about 10m with rubber bullets. I think it's within 5m for something like that sock round, but I would still give it 10. The trueflight was to get a gas round into a barricaded room, ideally to force the miscreants outside where they could be arrested. But yes, if you shot that directly at someone, it'd almost certainly kill them from blunt trauma.
@@Pakiu1306 seen it on boxes of ammo. For some idiot reason, people sell rubber bullets as shotgun ammunition in the US to civilians. When using a shotgun is by legal definition deadly force. 🤦
@@ekscalybur funnily enough, it was the introduction of the Zebra Mussel that cleaned up lake Erie and the lower Cuyahoga River. That's why people shouldn't eat them to help control the population... The mussels sequester all sorts of pollutants in their tissue.
The company's own information pretty much spells out that the Tru-Flite was intended for use against barricades, not directly against people. If a person was shot with one and later died, the company would've pointed out that that particular round was not intended to be fired at a person.
"But being that this is a 37mm smith and wesson, the most powerful handgun in the world, and would blow your head clean off, you've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well do ya, punk?"
Dirty Harry wouldn't waste time with less than lethal, remember in one his movies his Partner asked him why does ahe a carry a 44 and not a 38 or 357 like other cops his reply was "I like to hit what I aim at" By they way that actress who played his partner was Tyne Daly who later went to play in a lady cop TV series Cagney & Lacy". also for a time she was married to Georg Stanford Brown who played a cop in the Rookies.
Glad to see the comments on the “less lethal” vs “non-lethal”. I definitely get frustrated with media references to less lethal munitions as “less than lethal” or “non lethal” today.
Want to never have to worry about being hit by non lethel weapons or being gassed? It is easy. Tell your idiot professors to can it with the warmed over 1960s and 70s domestic terrorism stuff. Then stay home and not protest. Problem solved.
@@dakotahawkins5226 Look kid. Look around. Stop. Think about it. They are using you. Those corrupt teachers, social scientists, the mainstream press, all of them are using you to do their dirty work. They use meaningless phrases like privilage, social justice, ect. They are liars and cowards. I know this because I am a Gen Xer. My generation was supposed to be the flower generation. We sided with the ex-hippies and refused to be the slaves of the few 1960s and 70s hippies that went back to college after the hippie cause fell apart in about 1975. It was fun and subversive in a way. So the die hard hippies went after Millennials and Gen Z. Sadly, they have tricked too many of you into being their flower generation. I went to a global warming protest once and just observed. The old 1960s and 70s hippies quietly ran the show. The speakers went on and on flattering the protesters with talk of superiority. The victims did all the dirty work. They are enslaving you to do what they are not willing to do. Stand up for yourself. Tell them that you are you and that you are not their gullible modern day slave.
Dakota Hawkins the only thing you can control is yourself. Thinking you can get other people to change is wishful thinking. Just deal with shit how it is and let the fools play the fools game
This is so cool, both the gun and the cartridge were locally made (to me), the gas gun was built in Jefferson Ohio and that cartridge was built in my hometown by Combined Systems Tactical in Jamestown PA. Hell, one of my friends could have made that! So cool!
Line launchers are still commonly used in the US Navy. Usually using a 45-70 blank they send a small messenger line between ships to start the UNREP (Underway Replenishment) process for sending both fuel hoses and rigging for cargo pallets. VERTREP (Verticle Replenishment) using helicopters is generally quicker for stores but unsuitable for fuel transfers.
Thank you for the timely warning about the realities of less-lethal munitions. On a hopefully-less-morbid note, someone here might know this. Did S&W take advantage of their ties with a chemical company to push for any other advancements, eg in materials or propellants? Just a thought.
Less lethal yeah. With rubber bullets they're supposed to ricochet them but I've seen some of the pictures and the damage is pretty jaw dropping. (I'm NOT looking to get into a political debate. I don't care, leave me alone. I'm just talking about "less lethal" armaments.) EDIT: That wasn't specific to you Michael, just anyone in the comments that wants to start commenting about the current climate :)
@@sherman128 I mean that is how they are supposed to be used, not used LIKE an actual cartridge fired with the intention to kill. Same with blank firing guns. I remember actor Brandon Lee got killed by one on set...
@@axelpatrickb.pingol3228 that was due to a squib load and piss poor firearm safety. the entire concept of 'less lethal firearm' is like 'peaceful nuclear bomb,' you might be able to come up with a really good idea on paper but in practical application the basic reality of its nature is at odds with what you're trying to accomplish with it and no amount of precaution and planning is going to overcome what it is. even BB guns can kill people. even rock salt out of a shotgun can blind someone. there is no way to apply force to an individual to get them to submit without ultimately putting them at risk. which is why the government has spent millions on microwave area denial weapons - and has yet to use them in any practical manner. sounds good on paper, it sounds way less dangerous than any alternative, and yet you put it on the ground and nobody wants to be the person culpable for accidentally cooking someone to death. and the fact of the matter is that this IS a central topic of discussion in current events but nobody wants to really talk about this because its actually a real problem, and nobody has a political motive to actually try and discuss it.
@@axelpatrickb.pingol3228 That's not really what happened, a blank cartridge alone could never have killed him at that distance. He was killed because of the film crew using the same gun to fire dummy shot (bullet but no powder) and _subsequently_ blanks (powder but no bullet). The bullet from a dummy round was stuck in the barrel (squib) when the blank was fired at Lee. This meant that Lee was shot with a combination of primer, powder and bullet (albeit from two different rounds). Lee was essentially shot with a live round of .44 magnum which is not something anybody would ever refer to as "less than lethal".
A note on the ship to ship usage, that second "handle" was probably for putting a spool of thin line on called shot line. Its blaze orange to make it easy to spot, and ad it's usually discarded after one use, makes for really good daily use rope for lashing small things together. More often than anything else, shot line and rope launchers (we now use specially modified M14s with blanks and rubber barrel grenades) are used for UNREPs, or underway replenishment. Last I checked, you can find videos on RU-vid of the process. Its something you really have to see to believe.
Maybe don't wear it in front of people from Costa Rica, Guatemala, or Honduras. As a quick joke in Ian's video it's funny, but out of context it's in kind of poor taste. Of course there's a whole retail chain named Banana Republic, so I guess no one cares.
@@nicknumber1512 When he said that joke it wasn't at the expense of the rights of workers, it was a joke at the absurdity of the treatment of a fruit company towards people trying to unionize. But putting it on a shirt derived of context would be a terrible idea.
@@Nukle0n I agree at Ian's intent. I am overthinking it though. Anyone old enough to get offended is probably not going out in public at this point anyway. So, carry on.
I'm surprised that when the 1989 _Batman_ movie was made, they didn't feature the Joker pulling the pistol-grip with the carbine barrel combination of that out of his pants to shoot at the Batplane.
I worked as a CO in a prison in the early 80's. I carried one of these with a bag of CS grenades along with a mini 14 up and down a lot of steps in inside the building gun towers. We had them in the exterior towers also but at least out there we didn't need to carry them around all the time.
Fascinating stuff and the perfect gift for a S&W guy. I am sure they are still in use. After a 2017 riot at the Saskatchewan Penitentiary there is a photo taken by the investigator of one of those hard projectiles that look like a bomb stuck several inches into a cement wall.
Regarding the July 5, 1934 event you quoted a reading about, I think it's safe to assume that Rouch, the rep from the Federal Labs Company, did not fire and strike someone with a "Super-Sock." The quotation you read stated that he fired a "long range projectile." For all we know, that may have had a rubber projectile.
What the heck..?! Now you see it, now you don't, now you do again? *Edit:* Explained in Description. Anyway, my previous comment was easy to remember: Looks stone-axe simple on the outside, but rather more sophisticated on the inside. The "Tru-Flight" projectiles are rather scary; wouldn't want one of those headed my way. Well, none of them, but those in particular.
I think Cali might have banned 37mm launchers, which makes sense because they are a blast, and Cali hates people having fun, unless it's sanctioned fun!
_"a shell hitting one man and causing a fracture of the skull, from which he has since died. As he was a communist, I have no feeling in the matter and I am sorry that I did not get more."_ GOD DAMN, that came out of nowhere xD
It is reality and I'm glad Ian mentioned it. There is no use in discussing these devices if we hide their method of action in flowery terms or hide their possible impact.
@@ALovelyBunchOfDragonballz He wanted workers rights. He just declared him as a commie to get away with murder. Weather the man was or wasn't a communist is a moot point, the point of a less-than-lethal weapon is to not kill. It's one thing for the guy to say he felt no guilt or fault, it's another to say he wished he had killed more...with the less-than-lethal weapon.
I'm guessing they kept calibres different to avoid accidents (intentional or otherwise) involving explosive/fragmentation projectiles being loded instead of smoke......
I have used the Federal Gas gun a number f times to end disturbances. They are an amazing device. I have one of Federals comb baton/Gas dischargers too. The 264R round, with rubber disks was a very effective tool. The foan and bean bg rounds are worthless. They do not change hearts or minds.
A very relevant subject for todays events . That device is in pristine condition . A video about the M-79 40mm grenade launcher with chemical rounds would be cool . Thanks for this video .
Yikes Yeah I remember when the proud boys took over part of a city and attacked non-violent people that went near them... Oh wait those were anarchists.
@@sneakyrabbit3738 Us Oregonians agree your Washington State trash should protest in your own city instead of harassing people out of state...which grabs the ire of the FBI regardless of politics.
The Government says teargas is a non-lethal weapon. That is until you throw the canister back at em', then you'll get charged with assault with a deadly weapon.
@Yankee "Under no pretext should arms and ammunition be surrendered; any attempts to disarm the people must be stopped, by force if necessary" -Karl Marx
I would love to see this gun with a short shock and longer barrel in a bullpup configuration. This kind of assemply would produce the same lenght gun but with much much more convenient employment options. Obviously the trigger mechanism should be moved in part to the front of the gun. Would love to see some experiment even with 40mm versions of lethal and non-lethal armament.
A very timely video. My understanding is that at one time, S&W Chemical Co. was also the company that made the Mace brand of commercially available self-defense gas products.
The S&W gas gun/less than lethal gun was very well made and a good design. Ours were used well into the 2000's and may still be in reserve with munitions. If you have a good design that's well made and does the job you might as well hang on to it.
@@LuvBorderCollies We still had some OLD Federal Gas Guns into the late 90's or early 2000's, when we finally got 40mm DefTec launchers. Big difference with rifled barrels when you're using the "sponge" eXact Impact and Ferret rounds. We used a 37mm Ferret round to drive a guy with a shotgun out of his apartment. The officer aimed carefully at the window, hit the eaves and bounced it into the window. There was even a little half moon divot knocked out of the bottom edge of the eave. The 37/38mm smoothbores weren't exactly tack drivers. A couple of times we just used the blast dispersion rounds directly shoved into a back window (one time it was a trailer and the other a motel room). No accuracy issues when it's just straight out CS smoke coming out of the barrel.
I wonder if you were to replace the stock with a pistol grip, cut down the stock to atf guidelines to make it a pistol and adapt the barrel for a normal round and use black powder in the rounds so that it’s not technically a firearm if you would still have to get it all registered and crap.
@@haha20121000 Apologies for using the daily mail as a source, but it's the first I found. www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8374743/Demonstrator-21-loses-EYE-struck-face-police-tear-gas-canister.html
I'm going to ignore all of the anti-cop posts and simply offer some insight. I was certified as a chemical agent instructor in the 90's. It was driven home that flight-rite and other launched chemical agents, other than less lethal rounds, were not to be fired at people due to their potential for injury. There are several other rounds that are also available. Also, the term "gas" is incorrect, despite it being written on the gun. The correct term is chemical agent, as the agents are particulate matter suspended usually in smoke, or sometimes in a mist form, but are not actually gases.
@@Statusinator not that I am aware of. I do know, from experience unfortunately, that if you store cans of liquid CS (used in what is known as a "pepper fogger" riot control device) for a few decades, they start to leak. We had a cabinet in the armory that basically gave you a dose every time you opened it. Talk about bringing tears to your eyes. But I don't think it ever becomes an actual, technical "gas" as opposed to a solid or liquid. I may be wrong.
Civil rights activist/ dissident journalist Ruben Salazar was killed in 1970 by LA police firing one of those barricade penetrator rounds into a bar where he was sitting down to drink a cerveza, adjacent to an ongoing protest rally/march. Supposedly the officer loaded the wrong ammunition by mistake. The county paid a $700k settlement admitting improper use of deadly force but the officer was not charged. H.S. Thompson wrote a story about this, "Strange Rumblings in Aztlan" I read years ago but I have been thinking about it lately
Wouldn't surprise me if that loaded that penetration round deliberately. Look at the comment that Ian read from Roush about communists and look at the comments here on RU-vid glorifying it too which hasn't changed much in nearly 90 years.
@@LOUDcarBOMB I wonder how many of the people in this comment section saying 'Communists aren't humans' call for freedom of speech when media companies silence right-wing voices, or claim to own guns to defend against a tyrannical government. The founding fathers are rolling in their graves.
It's weird to think that technically this projectile is the same width as the early war tank guns in WW2. Goes to show how the diameter ultimately doesn't tell you that much about the projectile.
I remember that thing well. We used both the S&W and the very old Federal 37mm gas guns when I was with the PD's swat team in the 70s & 80s. They also threw a tear gas projectile that burned to release the gas (called a spede heat) that was about 6-8" long and looked like a long flat based bullet. It was used to drive miscreants out of a barricaded situation but very often started fires. For those old enough to remember the Symbionese Liberation Army (think Patty Hearst) the fire that destroyed their hideout was started by 37mm spede heat projectiles.
Madman? Yes. Lad? No. What a fucking psycho. The point of a less-than-lethal weapon is to not kill. It's one thing to say he felt no guilt or fault, it's another to say he wished he killed more with the less-than-lethal weapon.
Hey! I have this gun. Finally, a forgotten weapon I actually own. Maybe I'll upload some shooting videos on my channel. I don't have any tear gas but I do have some 37mm flares and marking rounds.
@@ScottKenny1978 I got mine used on GunBroker for $250. It was in pretty poor condition, the stock was cracked and it had some wear on the finish. They're pretty rare these days but they're around. They are considered flare guns, not firearms, so they ship right to your door. I don't think it's legal for civilians to buy tear gas since you can't shoot "antipersonnel" rounds out of a non-firearm. 37mm flares and marking rounds are legal but expensive, best to buy the shells and load them yourself.
I just came across a 16 inch, smooth bore, break action, .45-70 blank firing “harpoon gun”. I wonder if Ian has any information about anything such as this.
"If there's a way to kill someone with smthing like this, someone will figure it out" So true. In 2014 during the protests in Kyiv the special forces unit Berkut used to insert lead and steel projectiles into rubber bullets. They also used antimaterial shortgun slugs to fire at people.
They should have looked at making a top break frame revolver, then they could have made the barrel completely compatible with the rest of a production revolver, most RAF Airfields still use webley service revolver framed flare pistols because between how little they're used and the obvious surplus of spares when they phased out the revolvers they have a long service life
I used both the long and pistol barrel versions but we called them 1 1/2" or inch & a half gas gun. the cartridges were longer than the barrel in the pistol
Regarding the legality of owning a 37mm launcher and projectiles at the same time: It's my understanding that CS & CN cartridges are not considered to be antipersonnel (whereas anything with rubber bullets obviously are). But I may be wrong....
Second Forgotten Weapons video of the day!…..Wait a sec haven’t I seen this before? …Reads description….Oh….Wish my Peer Reviewing was that quick. Top marks Old Stick
@DOUG HEINS "Commies" of the 1920's labor movements are a very different beast that the demonized coldwar soviets and maoists. People back then would get a raw deal and they would try to push for a square deal through collectivist action, and much like our modern politics the bussiness leaders would cry wolf. Compare that to nazi's who are just racist pricks that try to scape goat the raw deals away and you'll find most tolerant people would carve out an exception and jump straight to full metal jacket with thier sentiments.
The French used tear gas filled handgrenades as early as August 1914 (and they were the first to use gas, not the Germans like it's widely believed), but the effect was minimal and it was soon abandoned as too cumbersome and ineffective.
@@graveperil2169 that wasn't why gas was banned. Gas was horribly effective, but uncontrollable. If the wind shifted and sent the chlorine clouds back over your own lines, well... Or worse, if the wind shifted and sent the gas into the towns around the battlefield.
That stock on a 629 or 686 with 9 3/4 inch barrel in 44 mag or 357. 👍 (. Seems like there was a cartridge that shot a deployable net to ensnare with this 37mm gas gun launcher. )
