-Rand becomes a lethal channeler an episode after not even getting trained by Logain except for almost burning himself out.😂 -Egwene can hold her own against Ishy -Multiple scenes of Nynaeve and Elayne looking at an arrow in her leg -random Seanchan appear to fight Lan and Moiraine on a beach miles away
Concerning the Last Point: encoutering a patrol scouting the area around Falme makes perfect sense. Though it highlights that the Whitecloaks should not have gotten this close to the city without being noticed.
remember when he shines so bright and logain even imply rand is stronger then him remember how shills now say " rand get stronger later this is to early.. " they use book stuff when it suits them but the show dont even follow itself
Mat touched the dagger and it was an earthshaking event. Rand is stabbed with the dagger that melts metals, and he gets healed without incident by an untrained novice?
It doesn't even make sense that Moiraine made the fire dragon. They have no idea what a dragon looks like until they actually see the dragon banner from AoL
Not to mention it completely undermines the entire point and meaning of "prophecy". I mean, if it's that easy for Aes Sedai to manipulate and create prophecy you'd better believe they'd have done it sooner. And how does that convince the people it's Rand up there? The biggest thing that pushed Rand into accepting his fate was that thousands saw his "face in detail, unable to deny it was Rand" from the images artist drew of his battle in the sky. In the show, from that distance, that figure could have been anyone, and the only people who know what happened up there were the 6 kids. How did Moiraine even know that was Rand and he'd just killed Ishy?
But as far as the show goes, it hasn't been established they don't know what a dragon looks like, so I think that sort of stuff doesn't matter for the show, you know? However, the comment below is a good point about manipulation - if anyone could throw up the dragon sign, then they could've claimed anyone as a dragon...makes the prophecy less useful. That's something I didn't even consider, tbh.
@@goldenchildgaming3582 "Moiraine also conjuring a fire ball 5 miles away that can take out the entire fleet of sanchan, going boat to boat feels a little o.p. Lol" As another - comparatively more frank - RU-vidr has mentioned, this feels like Rosamund Pike's vanity project, where she is using her power as the Producer to modify the story to increase her character's importance. You might even say, Rosamund Pike is the real ta'veren of Amazon's WOT, since the pattern of Amazon's show is weaving itself _around her_ .
When reading the WOT books, it was said that in times of desperate need, the heroes of the horn would come when the the horn of Valere was sounded. To me it was always felt like in the LOTR Return of the King and The Ride of the Rohirrim. I am not so sure the show conveyed the epicness of what was going on.
And it's such a shame because that's the sort of stuff viewers love. I think they could've kept it mostly the same but just make the moment FEEL cooler.
@@BookbornIt looked like a small fantasy con gathering. I wish it would have made them look more ethereal or supernatural, maybe translucent and ghostly. But yeah it looked like a bunch of people just went to Party City and got all the costumes that were discounted at the end of the season. I feel like the charge of the White Cloaks was more dramatic and impactful than the charge of the Heroes of the Horn.
The heroes of the horn were very underwhelming, their impact on the battle was not conveyed at all. To be fair, I felt like it wasn't very epic in the books either. The horn was always a miss for me
They had Ingtar yell 'Shinowa!' and die, while leaving out everything that made the moment great in the books. It was like they tried thrown a bone to readers while putting their nose in the air.. Rand learning to be a leader during TGH, forgiving Ingtar, and then Ingtar's sacrificial charge in an attempt to redeem his honor and blackened soul, is one of my favorite moments of the series. It's so good, and would've made great TV. I assumed they were pushing Ingtar aside while emphasizing Liandrin because they were moving his arc to her (something I'd disagree with, but at least they'd have the Darkfriend redemption arc)... Only to just not have Liandrin in this episode at all? Huh? A Wheel of Time story doesn't even attempt to replicate the heart of the original is just not going to work. Ingtar is just a single example, those types of terrible writing revisions and omissions are all over the place with this show. (There are positive changes - ie Lanfear - But the negatives far outweigh them) I'm with you. I just can't do it anymore. I can't come up with any more excuses for what they're 'trying' to do to get the same story across. Time isn't the issue, as evidenced by their choices to spend large chunks of time on things completely irrelevant to the plot. Budget isn't the issue, as they've somehow spent more money per episode than seasons 1-4 of GoT while having a far inferior looking product. The showrunners just don't have a love for the story that was needed in order to tell it properly, and that's the source of the problem. That's not something that is going to be fixed from season 2 to season 3. It's done.
So I had a theory early on that they were going to reveal that they are all together the Dragon- that the Dragon is not a person, but a Pattern that emerges when the Light is threatened by the Dark; sort of a super-ta'averen made up of a group of people. I would have been ok with that, it would have been an interesting twist on the original story, but still cool. But honestly I don't trust this show to do anything cool at this point, it's all just disappointing and bland.
S2E7. The Rand/Armylin Seat meeting. Siuon says "we would have been so much better off if you were a girl", cut to Egwene about to show the Seanchan how much of a super badass she is...feels like foreshadowing to me.
@@NevTheDeranged This is my theory for the show too. That last scene with all 5 of them atop the tower solidifies it for me too. That is why various people from the group are being given feats that the Dragon i.e Rand accomplished in the books.
Egwene being able to refuse an order, channel when she wants and even force-collar Renna, all while wearing the collar herself, when she couldn't even manage to grab a pitcher in ep6 felt like... I don't even know 😳 I was confused why Renna was resorting to physical abuse so much when she was wearing the bracer and shouldn't have had to. I guess i don't understand how that collar works in the show 😑 Nyneave, Wisdom, freezes in front of a wound and just sits there panicking.... Ishy just standing there doing the same fireball thing over and over while the Rand crew are having a moment right in front of him. Then he lets Rand just walk up to him and stab him, just like last season... I get people dropping off in disappointment. I've never understood the concept of slogging through hours of mediocre media in the hope that it will get good eventually. This show had an opportunity to take on and potentially fix a popular story (yes fix, because the books have HUGE problems). But the showrunners and the purse-keepers had too short-term goals for this IP. I will keep watching, mostly for the online banter, because that is where the fun of it is at for me.
Yeah it's interesting because Nynaeve freezes a lot in the book but always tries her "regular wisdom" methods, which I think the show has lacked a little bit. Otherwise though, I really thought she was going to freeze with Elayne (who she doesn't care about much) and then get angry enough to help rand. would've made a ton of sense for her character!
@@michaelczarniak3207 it's like Dresden calling the naagloshii "shag nasty"...you gotta make silly nicknames for the villains of the show. Nynaeve doesn't mutter toned down curses angrily as she shoves herbs and poultices into people's wounds while accidentally channeling for this to remind me of book Nynaeve. Egwain is over-powered...there are issues...
@@Bookborn They must be setting up for her to do the full healing next season when the wound doesn't completely heal (hence the weird black marks on the initial healing), but that seems such a strange choice and I agree with your assessment that they just dropped so many story lines and left them unfinished.
I just started laughing hysterically from the moment that Egwene stands up to Ishy until the end of the episode. It was absolutely hilarious. Are we sure Rafe isnt just trolling us all?
Like if she had blocked the initial blow, that's cool, she's hella strong, Ishy didn't expect it, ok. But yeah, her standing up to him and him just.... throwing shitty fireballs? And then just standing there to let Rand stab him??? Wth??
@@NevTheDeranged It's worse. this is the guy who was able to dominate Morraine a fully trained Aes Sedai before he was released from his prison fully. Here, he cannot do anything against an untrained Egwene. The show is not consistent with its own lore. They are trying to just create by the book moments and cool endings to seasons, without any thought of if it makes sense in context to the world they have created.
@@emerystheimmortal417only thing that makes sense that I've heard is that Ishamael was significantly exhausted after breaking all 6 of the cuendillar seals for the other forsaken
@@emerystheimmortal417 Yeah there's a huge difference between Power and Skill that often gets ignored in fantasy shows. The only reason Rand even stood a chance against him the first time they fought was because he had access to the huge well of purified Saidin from the Eye of the World, and took a wild guess about severing his connection to it. As powerful as Egwene, or even Nynaeve is, Rand should dwarf them once he starts to get a handle on his ability.
@NevTheDeranged the show has created a situation where we will need a level 100 Forsaken. She should not have been able to resist his attack that long. So exactly what is a danger to them now? Ishmael was blown away like a "twig". Agree 100% with the first post.
I'm 100% with you. I was starting to think this show was turning around with the past few episodes... and then this happened. And it's not just that it's so different from the books - like you said, Lanfear is awesome. It's just not good or consistent from a show perspective. They don't follow their own rules or have proper payoffs. The thing that annoyed me most was the BLATANT disregard of the a'dam rules the show itself set up. There is NO WAY Egwene should have been able to touch that collar, knowing she intended to put it on Renna and kill her (as she herself said last episode!). And even once she did put the collar on Renna, she still shouldn't have been able to hurt her since Renna was still her sul'dam. It really ruined the rest of the episode for me from that point on because I kept trying to think why on earth they would break their own rules like that. I also hated what they did with Rand, but that's just par for the course now, unfortunately. He's spent the past two episodes on his knees doing nothing, and then just stabs Ishamael - after Egwene somehow(?!) holds him off. And what was with Perrin's shield?? I really don't think even shields from Heroes of the Horn can withstand channeling FROM A FORSAKEN. Some other nitpicks: - I hated the way the Horn looked. Just give us a round French horn! - The little kids masking the the White Cloaks' approach... the Seanchan guards stupidly coming out to gawk at the mysterious fog... the White Cloaks all charging AT ONE DOOR. You can't all fit through there at once! - Nynaeve being utterly useless, especially after Elayne is shot AND THEY JUST SIT THERE IN THE OPEN. - Moiraine seemingly breaking the 3 oaths to attack the Seanchan ships - There is NO WAY Mat could have fixed the knife to that staff so well that he could stab people with it, especially without directly touching the knife Sorry for the long rant, the whole episode just left a bad taste in my mouth. They were doing so well! What happened??
I agree because it was so sad to see her broken but it felt real. For people going through abuse they often bend to the will of their abuser in order to protect themselves and that isn't a bad thing. It seems a bit extreme like EGWENE IS JUST SO STRONGG SHE WILL NEVER SUBMIT. So if someone is being abused and they don't continuously openly defy their abuser that is logical and understandable but the show makes it seem like if youre a strong person youll always be defiant. Im not sure if that made sense haha. I agree about the physical threats it was as if the collar wasnt even there this episode.
Agreed with you. World needs to have rules that need to be followed if anything to suspend disbelief. That they break their own rules all the time is another sign that they will disregard anything for convenience.
I hated the way the horn looked too but I try not to be too nit-picky. It just didn't look like a horn to me lmaoooo Totally agree though about the show not being consistent within itself. I swear even as a non-book reader, you must've been confused that Egwene could suddenly use a weapon against her Suldame? The problem is that it makes the moment less epic, and Egwene deserved an epic moment!
I don't think there was enough time showing/explaining how everyone became so good at fighting. Matt with the staff at the tower against the warders would have been a nice fast scene.
@@tw7998 Hoping we still get that. That scene doesn't happen until Mat returns to the White Tower after Falme, so hopefully (not counting on it) when he returns to the tower to get that dagger situation fixed we'll get to see it. But that duel won't mean as much now if his talent comes from "remembering". In fact it'd be kind of cheap now since it'd be a Hero of the Horn fighting Gawyn and Galad now and not just a unassuming peasant from Two Rivers.
I was mostly ok with the episode as it was going along and then was super pumped when rand got up (agree i wish it was nynaeve who healed him) and just strolled toward Ishy i was like "oh s*** here we go" (rubs hand in anticipation) and then... just nothing and the final few minutes were just disappointment.
YES!!! Like honestly even if everything else was the same and the only difference was that Rand and Ish had a huge fight, I think the entire episode would've turned around for me.
It was like Ishy just gave up and let Rand stab him. I was convinced it was another illusion, maybe that will be the twist? Seems like he's gone for now though.
@@Bookborn Oh yeah I have read them, i hope Moridin does show up but who knows with this adaptation. It's kinda sad that Ishy only seems happy while he's dying, maybe the DO will let him rest a little before downloading him into another body again, dude just wants to sleep and I can relate! Lol 😎
Is it just me, or does it seem like the writers choose one character to be their favorite each season? Season 1 was Nynaeve, season 2 seems like it was Egwene. Let's hope Rand or one of the other boys eventually gets a turn.
@@Bookborn non-book reader here, and ironically Egwene is my least favourite character (no amount of supersayan power ups will help me care about a character who is so annoying as a person)
This is all Rafe, he is a self proclaimed feminist. His goal is to elevate the female characters and turn the boys into side characters. I also feel this is hurting the show.
I think Egwene is favourite in both seasons too. Season 1 she brought back Nynaeve back from dead, she was even part of the Ishy Rand stand off. In general I wouldn’t mind this so much had they not made Rand seem so weak. Spoiler from books, I’m not sure if it was book 3 or 4 where the girls go to see Rand to help him channel and test his abilities only to find out that he easily overpowered them all together! Rand in the books always seemed like a dangerous live wire that could destroy the world by accident with his raw power. It’s so sad to see him robbed of his power. Even the prophetic moment with vision in the sky is not by him!
I couldn't finish this episode. I think the whole series is highly disrespectful to the work of Robert Jordan. I can't believe Harriet got behind this project. To me it reveals an incredible hubris for the showrunners to totally change and re-arrange every aspect of the original story rather than to creatively condense it for the sake of time. I will stick to audiobooks when I'm too lazy to read.
"To me it reveals an incredible hubris for the showrunners to _totally change and re-arrange every aspect of the original story_ rather than to creatively condense it for the sake of time." This. They forgot what an adaptation means. It does not mean re-interpretation. Well, either they forgot, or they don't care.
The point about the collar is the total loss of free will that reduces the channeller is reduced to a battery to be used. Breaking this to create a boss-girl moment is pure fanfic
She literally hit her with the collar, which means she viewed the collar as a weapon ergo she couldn't have picked it up. Thats not just from the books, they literally spent half an episode explaining that only to break it...
@@malkier8565 Please rewatch the scene. While it at first looks like Egwene punches her in the stomach (due to the perspective) she is actually going for the throat and just fastens the collar around it. And from the lack of movement on Renna behalf there can't have been much force behind the push. So Egwene doesn't hit her, nor does she intend to hurt her with the collar itself (that will be with the power afterwards) so her thoughts are apparently pure enough for the collar not to interfere with her actions. The important thing here is that Egwenes thoughts are the key and unlike in a book where Egwene would be the POV-character we cannot know what she thinks. We can only infer by her actions and by rules established by the show what she cannot be thinking.
@@gildor8866 The important thing here, is that a damane cannot override the collar through force if will and refuse to channel. That is simply lore vandalism.
Moriane couldn't have done that attack, those are humans she isn't in danger from them, she can't do it even just in show they have been bringing up the oaths all season, and yea it was insane they didn't let nye heal rand
Not just that, the channelers were technically slaves being forced to channel against their will so the 'Morraine thought they were dark friends' rationale goes out the window.
@@eqarigonWho is the enemy? This fight was between the Sanchaen and the Whitecloaks. The ship may have been led by a darkfriend, but that person might also simply have been a dupe of Ishamael. It’s not at all clear whether she’s taking orders from him because she serves the dark, or because he’s in the chain of command. Regardless, Moraine knows none of that. She knows that there are people on the ship who are a threat to Rand. But the oaths don’t allow her to use the power as a weapon under those circumstances. The show will simply let it slide. It’s nowhere near as disturbing as the inconsistencies with the dagger. Nor the complete lack of follow up on Egwene resurrecting someone, or Nynaeve completely wrecking assumptions that have prevailed for thousands of years about how the arches for testing accepted work. Making sense is simply not a priority.
It would have made more sense for Lanfear to have destroyed the ships echoing her destruction in Cairhien, showing again the infighting in the Forsaken and making the reveal at the end far better.
It’s funny how moraine can destroy and entire fleet of ships from miles away while the strongest of the forsaken ishamael can only shoot small fire balls a couple feet.
I liked it but also wanted to see him actually fight/do something. The whole season he's walking around having conversations (whether in dream or reality) and does nothing!
@munchiekins completely agree. I rolled my eyes a little when Egwene saved him at the end but once Moiraine got the shield lifted I hoped he would then get to have a moment. But all he did was walk 10 feet and stab a defenseless guy in the chest.?!
@davidlavin4774 Yea and that was enough to kill Ishamael?!?? He just seems more like someone everyone wants to manipulate or use and they talk about his power but we never get to see it *sigh*
Maybe it is a TV medium thing where they didn't have the time, but I found the way the Sul'dam treated Damane more like prized horses to be conditioned and trained so much more realistic, scary and dehumanizing. Like hearing about an Aes Sedai being excited about getting a candy treat from her Sul'dam and hating herself for it hit me harder than the overt violence and threats of the show. Also, I wanted just one "I think I will call you Tuli from now on!"
Oh I TOTALLY agree, I wish they hadn't had Renna use physical force as much, because I htink the creepiest moments were what you said. Like that tree moment? So great. Also, I loved when Egwene, who HATES the whitecloacks, starts attacking them, and then realizes she's doing what they want. That conflict was SO GREAT!
I gave up on this show after S1 but I really enjoyed your coverage on S2. I thought you were trying hard to be fair to the show as its own thing. I don’t get how anyone can consider you being negative. In fact, I felt you tried to like this season - but it is what it is. You are not the only reviewer on YT that pointed out the inconsistencies just within the show itself. Funny thing is- I just watched another RU-vidr video yesterday predicting that the sky fight was going to be a big let down and they will probably have it on top of a tower or something. The fact that people can predict how badly this was going to wrap up based on the choices made in the writing this season just tells me this show is not for me.
Thank you 😭I've tried to be fair and it's so frusterating that people think I'm trying to just hate the show for no reason, because I really am not! I actually was pretty sure the sky fight wouldn't happen in the same way, but honestly it's because I can see how a sky fight like that might look cheesy in the show. I actually didn't mind the tower fight in that regard - if it had actually been a fight lol. My idea would've been that while they are fighting something else would've shown in the sky - like from the one power, a dark monster and a fire dragon fighting or something that was representing the fight of Ishy and Rand. There are a lot of ways that aren't like the book that they could've accomplished the same thing, imo.
@@Bookborn if anything I think you have really being very open-minded and tried to give the show the benefit of the doubt as much as you can, which I have appreciated. I also really liked your book angle because my biggest frustration is that the most irritating thing about the show were those changes that did not make sense to the context of the story or that broke lore/consistency in their own head canon
@@Bookborn As someone who has not seen this season, my takeaway from your reviews was that there are enjoyable moments scattered with non coherent/contradictory character and plot developments. You’re not trashing the show but also not hesitant about pointing out flaws. That seems fair to me. It you manage to ignore those flaws you could enjoy the show as some mindless entertaiment - nothing wrong with that. For me, that’s not possible which is why I’ve chosen to not watch it anymore.
@@Bookborn "it's so frusterating that people think I'm trying to just hate the show for no reason" By now, I've gone through 7-8 comment threads on your uploads, and so far, I have not seen even a single one accusing you of _"just trying to hate the show for no reason"_ . Thus, this statement just seems like a fabrication on your part. But you know what I have seen? Many, many people ( _including me_ ) raising the point how this "adaptation" is sexist against men to the point of misandry. And you have NEVER tackled that point. Probably, I assume, because you do not want to lose the "modern feminist" portion ( _to whom feminism is a zero-sum game with losers and winners_ ) of your subscribers.
Well two things here: This will be hard to explain, but the comments attacking me don't get upvoted, so unless you read EVERY comment on my videos, you are unlikely, as a casual viewer, to see them. Me, on the back end, sees EVERY comment I get on EVERY video. And I have had several people attacking me on every video. It's exhausting. I know understand all these content creators that I never used to understand: people always accuse them of making the hate up, but it's becasue the general hate tends to be hidden from people reading comments. You don't have to believe me, but the hate is what is exhausting me about covering the wheel of time, so whether or not you believe me doesn't affect that I have to deal with it. Second, I absolutely will be covering the fact that men are ignored in this show: it's one of my primary complaints of this season, and it will be reflected in my season analysis. If you see me ignore those comments it's because they are usually making absolutely wild claims that I don't actually agree with. I think this show has a weird idea of feminism, one that I don't hold. I have no worries about losing viewers: I lose them all the time. I lost them when I called the Witcher sexist. I lost them when I criticized that the show wasn't doing a good job with their male characters in season 1 (aka what you are saying I'm afraid to talk about). @@mantheking
Spoiler for book 7. If Mat gives Rand the never healing wound with the dagger how can Fain give him the second never healing wound with the same dagger?
That's the kind of repetition that would make sense to cut for a TV show anyway. There's a lot of stuff going wrong with the show but minor stuff like that ain't it.
Obviously: this is how he gets the never healing wound. Much better place than at a random swordfight duel in the middle of nowhere where Fain just appears. It seems that they cut these Rand vs random dudes swordfighting scenes, and I hate to say it, but it is good. He is a leader and a channeler, not a swordsman this time.
Last episode, my wife turned me and asked, "So Egwene is the Dragon Reborn right?" and even if thats not the case for the books, it's becoming increasing clear that Rafe is gonna pull the rug out and reveal that Rand is actually going mad and Egwene was the Dragon Reborn this whole time. It's absolutely going to happen and nothing about the show is convincing me otherwise.
I'm not sure that will happen but it's definitely clear that Egwene is now the writers favorite character. Is it so hard to find writers that understand that Rand is the main character?
He doesn’t need to make Egwene the dragon in order to take away most of Rand’s moments in the books. This show runner is never going to give Rand a moment where he outshines Egwene. I can already see how he will butcher Dumai’s well, the cleansing, and on and on.
@@asmo773I mean, that scene with Nynaeve drinking dirty water is the foreshadowing for Nynaeve finding out how to clean Saidin, if Saidin exists in this world
@@denglongfist4270 Absolutely, it certainly is foreshadowing that change. Rand’s entire battle with Asmodean will definitely be cut in the show and I don’t see him having any big moments next season other than more Aiel exposition.
As a non book reader this was god awful tbh. They spent so much time on these aes sedais and their warders throughout the season for literally no reason, not just liandrin but alanna & verin, like why? They spent time on moraines dynamic with her sister again why, with a show so condensed they could have given that time to develop other stories that actually mattered like spending time with the white cloaks more so I can be invested in why they’re leading up to this battle, or just giving Perrin any sort of substance at all for me to care about him. And Every single scene w/ Lan could have been cut, him and Perrin are in the lead for the most boring and useless characters. Such a waste.
Does Mat getting some memories from blowing the horn mean we won't get the doorways? And is his makeshift spear in place of the raven spear? I hope not.
I TRULY think the best analogy with this show is they handed the writers a 2000 piece puzzle and said okay we need the same picture but with only 500 of the pieces.
@@athenaiswild And then they chose the wrong pieces to use, decided that they could make better pieces, and put them together in a way that the edges don't fit together.
Agreed that when Mat blew the horn, a moment that should have been epic, I found myself a bit underwhelmed. Everything just went slo-mo, and I felt like they were trying to make this moment feel important without actually showing us why. I had to rewind that scene and see if I had missed anything.
I complained about this in Rings of Power actually - how slow-mo doesn't make a moment epic; it can contribute to a moment, but the emotions have to already be there. I think the Mat scene would've hit more if he actually was still with Loial/Perrin and blew it in a moment of his friends being in intense danger. Almost same circumstances/very different emotional backing
While you are right he does get a Heron brand earlier, I'm pretty sure he gets the second on his hand here. When Min finds him in chapter 48 in TGH, she "pried his hand open and winced when the hilt stuck to his palm..." and two sentences later "The heron on the hilt had branded itself into his hand". Rand notices the new brand in the last chapter as well "There was a heron branded across his left palm, too, now, to match the one on his right, every line clean and true". Then recalls the prophecy "Once the heron to set his path; Twice the heron to name him true." Overall, Rand's efforts in this were once again lame and miniscule. They didn't give him any fight at all. Turak wasn't a fight. And Egwene did all the impressive stuff on the tower while Rand just walks a sword into Ishy. Very underwhelming. And it was super lame how Moiraine forced the whole prophecy thing, which undermines the whole point of prophecy if people can just create it whenever they like. Anywho, I definitely think they missed a big opportunity in this episode to give the show that epic feel. Being caught between the two THOUSAND "rank on rank on rank" Seanchan army and the Whitecloaks and Mat being forced to blow the horn would have been such a wonderful scene. Instead we get a little "skirmish" at best and just a handful of Seanchan. It definitely doesn't feel like they even had an invading force at all, just some scattered fights in the streets. PS: 100% my favorite WoT content channel!!! So well done :)
WOW I totally thought the second brand came in a later book! Sometimes they run together for me lol so yeah I guess this brand does make sense here then!
@@Bookborn I thought he got his first heron mark earlier during the chase. He gets the dragon markings later (maybe Season 3???). He does get the second mark during this battle, if I remember correctly. (it has been a while) lol
I really tried. I did even cry (for Mat's moment), they got me there. It felt good- for a second, to have Rand face Turak. There were Hopper, Uno, moghedien. Hell, even all of them reunited on top of that tower, and that silly dragon- for a second. But cheap fan service is definitely not enough to truly make a great show.
As a book reader, i 100% agree with every single word you said in this video. I was constantly cursing myself for rooting for the show to be better, but deep down, i knew they wouldn't be able to deliver all the content & lore in such a short span. Plus all the book deviations just makes it hopeless (though some deviations are actually quite enjoyable) I just wish they had shown the flicker-flicker scenes & the portal stones. One thing i have to say is I did love the MOGHEDIEN reveal. I thought the actress did a great job and those spider webs were a nice touch. But overall - suppppper disappointed in the heroes, suppppper happy with the female villains Lanfear, Liandrin & Moghedien.
I just wish they would at least be consistent with their own rules. It was so emotional when Egwene finally poured the water and drank it. Then this episode shes just like an angry teenager and Renna is her parent or something and the collar is mere decoration.
@@Bookborn ture, but like, she was tortured so much during these 8 episodes, might have tried to pick that water cup on scene at least 15 times. For such a build up i was expecting something
It seems like the showrunners have a real problem with Mat's character. His defining moment of becoming the Hornsounder is rushed and then he gives Rand the wound in his side that never heals and feels like all the "darkness in the world." And by changing the nature of what in the book is clearly a Christ-like wound, are they trying to make Rand less of a Christ figure by making it an accident and not something he got from fighting the Shadow? Or does this imply Mat is somehow evil? Whatever it is they're doing to Mat, I don't like it.
It's a super special dagger that can melt people one minute, then stab people 15 minutes later and it just wounds them. Even the dagger doesn't know what it is.
they also robbed him of EARNING his abilities. Instead he goes from slave to the dagger to his fake ashandarei to hero of the horn with all the memories and skill that go with it in 5min with no effort on his part.
@@YZedMB That's true, Mat's storyline was rushed and his "arc" made no sense. But on the other hand we got to meet all of Alanna's warders AND her neighbors!
Elayne: Nynaeve please heal this arrow wound. You can't? We'll never mind then. Also Elayne: Proceeds to heal a complicated evil magical wound from a weapon that can instantly kill you.
@@GilescowdemdemOMG that made me speachless for several minutes - like show it's half through the leg, let Nyneave mutter no vein hit, break the top off and pull it out. But push the whole thing through, feathers and all? Just... why???
"It feels like such a waste" that describes this show perfectly. They have this INSANE budget and like the best source material and this is the best they can do??? This last episode was like "let's cram in all this badass book stuff in one episode " and all they did was make it cheesy and lame and not epic at all. It breaks my heart. I hope someone makes a WOT anime in the future and does this series the justice it deserves.
don't give me that hope, I had almost come to terms with this being the only possible on screen adaptation of the biggest literary experience of my life...
Yeah I felt like Egwene got her moment and completed her season arc with Renna. Rand did not earn the dragon announcement because he did very little this episode. I did enjoy the episode but sidelining you protagonist and making him this passive has me worried for the future. They do seem to think downplaying one character is all of a sudden going to make another better. Everyone deserved a moment including Nyneave
Yes yes YES. I think if we had tweaked some stuff in earlier episodes (spent less time on warders for example) we could've built to a final episode where everyone got a moment.
All you have to do is remember this particular rule-of-thumb. If it's a male protagonist, stories, arcs and power from the books will be TAKEN AWAY from them. If it's a female protagonist, stories, arcs and power from the books' male characters will be GIVEN TO them. Also expect Bookborn to NEVER clearly talk about this. She doesn't want to lose the misandrist portion of her audience, after all.
By making Rand weak makes the show very weak to me. Who really want to watch the show where the main hero is weak? Why give him all this time if I can't root for him in the end. Or am i missing something
As a show-only I couldn’t wait to hear how this stacked up. Being loosely familiar with the epic fantasy flavour of the books, this certainly felt more of a ‘skeptic’ interpretation towards stuff like prophecies. I would’ve certainly liked to see the missing Rand moments you mentioned, which makes the books look all the more interesting to me! And I will admit as a show-only still I laughed at how short the Rand-Ishamael fight was.
I was pretty confident that even as a non-book reader the final fight would fall flat, and my friends who haven't read the books agreed. They may have liked the episode overall more than me, but all have agree that they expected an epic fight and then were sort of confused
@@Bookborn they have to save the budget for flame dragon CGI...they can't waste it on having actor learn to sword fight...or finding sword fighters that can be made to slightly resemble the actors...the lack of epic sword fights from Lan and Rand may be one of the least cited failings of this show...because there are so many others to point out, but I figured it needed to be mentioned.
The books have a ton of prophecies that were well thought out and most importantly paid out eventually. Verin drawing 5 spokes on a wheel while reciting the "five go forth" prophecy to herself while the others are deciding who will ride into Falme. You'll give up half the light of the world to save the world... another gem You'll marry the man that remembers hawkwings face.....aaargh
LOL, in the first book, epic fight at the end was clueless Rand sort of stumbled into defeating 3 thousand years experienced Forsaken with one power. In the second book, few months of sword trained Rand defeated 3 thousand years experienced Forsaken in a sword fight. The one dimensional bad guy didn't learn anything from his last defeat. 🤭🤭
@@drukshay "LOL, in the first book, epic fight at the end was clueless Rand sort of stumbled into defeating 3 thousand years experienced Forsaken with one power. In the second book, few months of sword trained Rand defeated 3 thousand years experienced Forsaken in a sword fight. The one dimensional bad guy didn't learn anything from his last defeat. 🤭🤭" If you had bothered to read the actual series, O Rafesplainer, you would know that he is unconsciously drawing upon knowledge from his previous incarnation - the Dragon Reborn - a double-edged sword, as that eventually becomes both the cause and nature of his madness.
I don't think Egwene could collar Renna if she saw the Collar as a weapon and yet she had to have seen it as a weapon when she collared her. Also aren't the Damane supposed to go mad or atleast immobile when their Sul'dam dies? About Mat's/Padan's dagger. Its evil is different from that of the Dark One and it corrupts anyone who touches it. For some reason Padan gives it away willingly. And why is he working with the Forsaken? I had really hoped to see Rand earn the title of Blade Master.
Concerning the collar: I am not sure. She is not desiring to bash Rennas head in like she did with the cup. The act of collaring itself is not harming the Suldam. Same argument can of course be made for just picking up the cup which egewene can't do until she stops thinking about harming Renna. But since thought is apparently the critical component here, what precisely is Egwene thinking while she is collaring Renna? It is somewhat similar to the question of how certain an Aes Sedai must be that something is not true before the oath of "tell no word that is not true" kicks in? Egwene had plenty of time to think about it and maybe even experiment to a certain degree in her cell. Is she just controlling her thoughts well enough? We actually don't know that much about the precise working of the collars in the show and Renna herself obviously doesn't really understand how they work either so what we know from her may not be as accurate as Renna thinks it is. And once Renna is collared herself the interactions between two collars create a different of rules (in the books two people being cross-warderbonded to each other have abilities far beyond a normal bond). However regardless of the actual mechanics a show should avoid confusing the audience in way that fridge brilliance is needed to figure something out.
Padan Fain is just one among many disappointments in this show. Nobody is anywhere near as cool or interesting as they are in the books, but the gulf between who he's supposed to be and how he's being shown is one of the largest. I'm afraid they may just drop Rand being a swordsman entirely, after melting Tam's sword for no reason. I was honestly ok with him just murdering Turok's entire crew with Saidin, that was actually kind of a cool moment of him embracing the One Power instead of running from it. But like BB, I expected to get at least a half decent fight with Ishy, but nope. Rand will just continue to be a mediocre white boy.
Well, with Egwene and Renna, the Suldam didn't actually die. Renna first freed Egwene. Meaning Renna was no longer her Suldam. Then Renna died as a Damane. So in their confrontation, no Suldam died leaving their Damane
Agree with the frustration over how they're not giving Rand enough to do and frequently taking away his "hero moments" and either just not doing them OR giving them to someone else. Also the fact that Nynaeve not only had nothing really to do in this show, but am really bothered by that scene where she's pushing the arrow through Elayne's leg *without snapping off the fletching first!!". It's sloppiness like that in the show that's really irritating me. So I am now going to go read The Great Hunt so I can revisit this story being told properly.
"they're not giving Rand enough to do and frequently taking away his "hero moments" and either just not doing them OR giving them to someone else" All that makes sense when you consider that Rafe Judkins has an agenda. He is not interested in adapting WOT. He is concocting something infected with his politics and ideologies, where feminism is a zero-sum game: men have to "lose" for women to win. His misguided take on "feminism" has turned Robert Jordan's seminal work of art into an incoherent, inconsistent, plot-hole-riddled mess of a misandrist travesty. When you do not consider the showrunner's biases and prejudices, this all becomes confounding. When you take it into account, it all becomes self-explanatory.
Rand did get his big moment at the end of episode S2E8. Watch the scene carefully from the part when the shield is released on him. He takes over the shield (Egwene and Perrin are visibly relieved), absorbs Ishy's fireballs somehow and changes how the shield look (and some rainbow hue is added which may be him, the group taveren thing or whatever), then Ishy is stopped from channeling altogether (and/or gives up), he walks up to him, with saidin glowing around him and clearly channeled into his sword, then stabs him and he is undone (which we saw how big of a deal it is, compare to Lanfear surviving). Maybe you missed it cause you wanted to miss it? It did come through to others.
I wasn't planning on re-reading the books, all my free time these days goes to BG3 (and now DOS2). But the lack of Rand/Mat/Perrin, and the way they're treated when on screen highly tempts me to open the books again. (But I'm scared if I just read some passages, I'll be sucked in all over again - I discovered gaming this year and got a backlog of older classics RPG's till my death! Can't spend another 3 whoke months on WoT)
@@csarmii I didn't miss that, it's just not as dramatic and *visible to everyone in the area* the way his climax in the book is. I definitely thought this finale was much, much better than the previous season's and think things are going in the right direction. Maybe they just tried to shove too many plot lines here that in the books happened earlier in the story, so they really didn't have time to let any of them sink in/breath. But IIRC in the books, very little of what Rand does in these moments is at all subtle and there are definitely things that he did in the books that have been given to other characters.
@@mantheking While I'm less inclined to chalk it all up to the "Rafe's too woke" excuse (I think it's more of a pacing, rushed writing, and insufficient time/budget problem), I do think if he wanted to really pivot the focus to a show with a female lead maybe he should have expanded just "New Spring" and possibly do something more along the lines of a prequel? Something that really dives into Moiraine's search for the Dragon Reborn after witnessing the Foretelling at Rand's birth...which might give them more time to delve into why The Dragon Reborn is an idea that mostly terrifies everyone and why what Moiraine and Siuan are doing is really risky for them. That would also give the show runners more space to dive into Tower Politics and explain more about the pros and cons of the Aes Sedai/Warder relationship, instead of having to side track off the main WoT story (which Amazon didn't give them enough time to tell as it is) to shoehorn in those plot lines.
Yeah - The show in season 1 seemed to nerf Rand's role in the finale (in the book he stopped the army). I didn't watch season 2, but it sounds like that trend is continuing in the show.
rands dual with Turok was my favourite fights in all of the books, even though rand was learning the power, he still kept being a swordman to heart, to the point where he could form a Fire sword if i remember correctly, god i hope they don't cut that
It also goes against (book spoilers) how Taim and Rand teach differently. Rand specifically has the Black Tower recruits learn the sword first where Taim's cronies mock and avoid that training to go full power only.
The dual with Turok is where he EARNS the Heron.. it makes the mark means something. They even setup the sword fight with the “Let’s see what it takes…” line.
thank you was starting to think i watched a different episode than what others did, this is the second battle they stole from rand in a season final, there was good moments and some ok changes, but there was so many plot holes, was going into full rant but you kinda did it for me as i had same scenes that bothered me. nothing is earned it is just given, also there is no power scaling they just can do whatever when needed like moraine doing the ship from that far away or creating that dragon or eugene being ably to shield anything from a forsaken this early on. this is no training and struggles to achieve skills and or powers so big scenes feel earned and justified. With the matt memory stuff i hope that not fully taking away a different part of the books, but even if it did give us like 30 second quick flashes of him remembering fighting and learning skills so when he just becomes flashy mat it makes sense. ill give the show this though season 2 was better than season one in a lot of ways. oh and something nobody really talking about the horn looked like a cheap dollar store trinket or middle school craft project
The power scaling is what bothers me the most. From this episode I will rank them as ( strongest to least) 1. Ewgene 2. Moriane 3. Ishmael 4. Elayne 5. Rand (not counting lanfer as I didn't see her channel in this episode)
@@adebam23 Well, Lanfear easily flung Lan and Moiraine out of the ways, so she is higher than Moiraine. And in end credit, Moghedien trapped Lanfear, so she could be perceived as being stronger than Lanfear (though it could also be explained as her having been caught off guard). But that’s just looking at who is winning fights, not necessarily looking at how impressive the weaves are. If that’s what we’re doing, I’d say Moiraine seemed the strongest.
With regards to Egwene collaring Renna, I dont think it would work based on book and show lore. We are specifically shown that Egwene cant pick up the jug because she wants to use it as a weapon, so picking up a collar to put on her Suldam just doesnt make sense.
I have not watched a single episode of season 2 and I doubt I will after hearing this. Despite what the defenders say it and despite all the book changes it sounds to me like they failed to capture even the essence of Wheel of Time. I'm not that desperate for an adaptation that I will entertain whatever this fanfic attempt is and I'm gonna be harsh, I just hope they outright cancel it.
I was so disappointed. I was having a good ol' time with everything in the episode, even Egwene tanking Ishamael. The blowing of the Horn was okay, I didn't love it, but also didn't hate it. I was bummed not to see Brigitte more prominent. I thought it was a choice to have Nynaeve be so ineffective, I thought they were leaning into the block-thing. By book 2 her block is nowhere near resolved. But man it was anti-climactic... the ending ruined everything retrospectively. Egwene stole the show in a bad way, after building up her storyline so well. What needed to happen was Egwene being overpowered by Ishamael, and even if Rand stabbed him in that moment in the same way, it should've been a fake-out or something before the actual epic fight. I feel like they're just robbing Rand of all his big moments and I don't understand why. So disappointed, I really wanted to like this season.
Thank you for expressing a lot of my frustrations with this show. I was starting to feel like it had some redemption with Nyneve’s storyline and Liandrin’s amazing actress. Then the last episode happened. How incredibly disappointing to have two seasons end on such awful flops. I keep asking myself where all of the money went that was put into the show. The writing and consistency should have been the foundation from which to grow. Instead, we’ve been scrambling on quicksand while more weight is being put on our shoulders. There are good moments, but it’s just not being done well overall.
I hate feeling this way! I was heartbroken after season 1 and this season was such a step in the right direction until this finale and now I feel heartbroken again 🥲
It's SO frustrating that they can't stick a landing, especially because weirdly I think they could've made just some small tweaks to this episode and made it really great.
They still haven't explained the sword? It was the first mystery in the first book. My dad has a heron sword? How did he get this? Is he a Blademaster? It was the first time he thought he didn't know who his dad was. It comes up every time someone sees the sword.
Yeah it's so baffling to me because it could literally have been a throw away line SO MANY TIMES. I really would love non book readers to tell me if they get what the blade means. Maybe I'll do an instagram poll over it lol
remember " errol" and all shills cried about how much he will teach rand to fight with the sword.. .. remember stepin? how lan has broken bond for 6 months and act like nothing but " buhu moirane little mean to me". mopey they never explain anything. rafe is a shithole made by hellfire
OK, so I've enjoyed the second half of season 2 with some large caveats about some of the writing and the choices made. HOWEVER, it's a big improvement on season 1. That said, finale rant incoming... Good stuff - Egwene's story has been really well done and her whole characters has been fleshed out really well - Matt's horn 'moment' was awesome, was honestly worried they'd have him go full dark friend. Making his sword/staff thingy is a nice nod to the books as well. - The culmination of Lan / Morraine re-bonding was also a really nice moment. Thought, fek me, did that story go on for way too long and take way too much time and focus. - Perrin finally going Berserker after Hopper dies, god that moment was sad. - Overall it was an OK episode but finale's should be awesome, not just OK. - Moghedian reveal at the end was very well done, she's a great actress The annoying stuff (not necessarily bad) - The number of times people just kind of appear in front of each other in large cities is amongst the laziest writing tropes ever and so so present in many of the episodes this season - Similar to soldiers just kind of appearing on the beach for Lan to fight. The city is in the other direction! What were they doing lol again, just kind of lazy writing - Padan Fain just kind of handing the dagger over, no big deal. Didn't we establish the owner is drawn to the dagger and wants to keep it? - Loial surviving the dagger stab end of season 1 (or are we just pretending that finale didn't happen? Probably for the best tbf) - How did Morraine use the power against those ships when she wasn't in danger? - Why did Egwene's collar override Renna's collar? How did she even get it on Renna when she clearly intended it to do harm. - What was the point of Ny and Elayne figuring it out when Egwene then did it independently anyway? - Mins original viewing wasn't actually what happened between Rand and Mat but Ishy seemed to know what happens somehow....How, exactly? The bad - I'm a Rand and Matt stan, as far as the books go so I spent a lot of this season being forgiving about the fact that Rand did nothing. I did this because I assumed they'd nail his announcement moment in this finale, wow, was I wrong? Literally, he did nothing. He also somehow learned how to make spikey things to kill people with at some point. And also to make a fire blade? When lol!? Why did that kill Ishy when they have eternal life, which we were told earlier in the episode? They give 90% of the battle with Ishy to Egwene after she's already had a sweet moment taking back her agency from the Sul'Dam. They then give the fleet burning to the Morraine along with his 'fire in the sky'. Is he going mad? Apparently, he started hearing the voices end of S1 straight away but we've not heard anything about that for several episodes. Literally, he's done nothing and it's driving me mad to the point where I can't argue with people who are saying they're hamstringing him on purpose. Anyway, rant over, I'm sure there's more but I feel satiated at this point. Thanks for reading if you made it this far.
I'm gonna assume that since mourraine knew it was a plan set up by LA gear, then Mourraine could assume that whoever was shielding the Dragon was a Dark fired, which then let's her use the one power on them. The collar thing is kinda bending the rules a bit, but I read it as a "Egwene is stronger than Renna" type vibe.
I mean, it's a reach and not sure how those oaths work otherwise she could just destroy all the white cloaks by assuming they're darkfriends. Also, only one person on that ship was a dark friend and she wasn't channelling, the majority were technically slaves being forced to channel against their will. This is the problem though, it's just so inconsistent and doesn't make the effort to explain why this might be an exception. @@samuelbeauzile5192
I am a bit confused, you aren't happy that rand was unable to fight ishy more effectively but are also unhappy that he learned the sword and 'spikey things'?
Not really what I said, although it may have not been clear as I was quite ranty. For clarity, I'm unhappy Rand did very little during the fight with Ishy, essentially just walking up and stabbing him to which Ishy just kind of let him instead of, you know, moving or something. I'm also unhappy about the lack of consistency in terms of his use of the power. When did he learn to make spikey things, when did he learn to make a hot sword? What even is the hot sword and why did it kill Ishy? Why did he decide to hold the actual blade of the sword? The handle is perfectly fine so it's likely just another lazy plot device to get a heron on his hand. The last time we saw him channel, beyond being immediately shielded, was with Logain where he didn't have much control and almost drew too much of the power.@@tw7998
Wow it really was EOTW! I thought that while doing this video but I was like...no, it can't be that early! I just didn't realize all my hopper love was exclusively dream world lol
@@Bookborn it was actually when Egwene and Perrin were captured by the Whitecloaks... in a steading. Of course, Perrin has already spent time with Elyas and knows more about his powers. They would have to actually provide their characters with time to HAVE an arc to do this though.
My thoughts: - Better finale than S1, felt a bit more balanced and focused, but everything was still a bit scattered. - Where the heck was Min? - I'm glad Mat got to blow the horn, still, but it's also the only thing he's done the entire season - Even though everyone is together it feels like no one really got to have a conversation. Rand finally got to meet Elayne (not Aviendha yet) but literally only exchanged one word with her, haha - Where's Faile? What happened to Liandrin? Thom? - They want Egwene to be the main character SO bad - Uno being a hero of the Horn is hilarious - Moghedien's performance was GREAT - Last, I think your point about individual moments vs. cohesion is spot-on. The show has so little time to advance relationships, move the plot, and give us satisfying arcs. I don't want to compare it to GoT but it feels like it's trying really hard to act like a show of that type but failing consistently to stick the landing. Combining book 2 and 3 was a bad move; we NEED those moments with Rand actually being with his friends to make the separation impactful. We need to see who Mat actually is, what Perrin is driven by, and why any of them would be friends with each other to make moments like Mat blowing the horn have the weight they should. We have too many characters, too many plots, and not enough time to develop any of them, and the ones they do choose to focus on feel unnecessary. I would much rather have more scenes with Rand/Mat/Perrin actually demonstrating their friendship than what feels like entire halves of episodes devoted to orphaned Liandrin plot threads, Egwene being a damane, Moiraine being rude to seemingly everyone who cares about her, and WHATEVER THE HECK was going on with Lan and the warders. I'm really concerned how they handle book 4 and beyond.
- Definitely better than the season 1 (but unfortunately not as good as 5-7 of this season, yeah it's a bit scattered). - Cairhien :) (no but really her part is done for the season, and it would be too crowded) - As much as I've grown to actually trust the writers (blasphemy I know), I was still thinking they were going to give the horn to Perrin or someone else... so glad they didn't - S3E01 I reckon. The first chapters of Book 4 (TSR) are just everyone hanging out (in Tear in the books, but it'll likely be Falme) - this is also where the Elayne/Rand romance actually gets started (I know they meet in book 1, but) Rand also doesn't meet Avi until book 4 (she shows up in 3, but as we all know Rand is AWOL for that book). - I think we have Faile cast for season 3 (maybe they didn't want to introduce a romantic intrest so soon after he killed his wife - I'll defend this show a fair bit, but not that choice), and Thom had scheduling conflict with a different show (though I would have much rather have Thom hanging out with Rand than Moiraine's sister, but oh well). And Liandrin better be on the run coz Damodred knows she's black lol (but yes season 3 is going to have a lot of to "meanwhile in cairhien" address). - She is a main character... even in the books (more main character than even Mat who is basically just Rand's sidekick for a while, tbh - not that I don't want more Mat, I will always want more Mat). But to illustrate my point... she's the third most POV of the series by word count (Rand 21%, Perrin 12%, Egwene, 12%) and in combo of books 2+3 she's 2nd (Rand 28%, Egwene 23%, Perrin 18%). - Uno is great (heard a fan theory that he's Gaidal Cain... which I would not be opposed to, but also don't put much stock in). - loved Moghedien... I think I've that scene alone upwards of five times... :| - and yeah a bit more cohesion is needed and more time with the main characters interacting with each other (really enjoyed that scene of Mat and Rand hanging out in Cairhein and wish there was more of that) and as much as really enjoyed watching Liandrin's plotlines... I am left wondering how much does it contribute to this season? obviously she's a foil to Nyneave (she has no use for warders, can channel viciously at will, is a rubbish healer, and apparently will doing anything for family)... but with only 8 episodes it is a bit of a zero sum game and Ny doesn't even get a strong resolution in the finale I honestly kinda like Mat's growth though. He abandons his friends three times: once for fear/selfishness, once for shame, and once for love (he doesn't go with Rand coz he believes Min). And then he finally gets to make good on his mistakes. I'm really hoping he sticks with Rand for the entirety of season 3.
Egwene being able to hold off ishy was the dumbest thing show done. Him and lanfear have been shown to barley break a sweat when going against Aes Sedai. And yes I know Egwene was collard and learned more, but that does not mean she can hold off ishy. And Perrin holding a metal shield shouldn’t do anything. Once again they take away from rand in favor of Egwene. The injustice they continue to do to his character just hurts so much.
You remembered more smaller details than I did, which is great! I read these books years ago, so it doesn't bother me. I love this series of book and show comparisons! With that, I kept getting disappointed after each episode when I compared what I remembered to what I watched, which made me hate the show. But around episode 4, I told myself that I would stop doing that and ended up enjoying the show much more. But you're absolutely correct about Rand being underwhelming and both of his sword fights being anticlimactic. Thanks for the review, and hopefully you'll watch season 3! I'll understand I'd tou don't though. 😊
If I watch it, I think I just won't cover it! It's been stressful having people annoyed with what I think of the show, whether positive or negative; I think if I can just watch it and let myself think what I want about it, I might enjoy it more too!
@Bookborn I completely understand that. It's entirely your call, but I assume most tuning in to hear your opinion prefer the honesty. It's rare to agree with anyone 100% of the time, but people gain so much more from listening to others as opposed to the reinforcement of their own opinions. 😊 I disagreed with some of what you said, but you were correct with many other points. Thanks for sharing your opinion, whether you decide to continue with the series or not.
Like you my favorite part of this episode and the entire show is Lanfear. I’m rooting for Rand and Lanfear to be together which I never did in the books. Rand was once again shoved aside in favor of the girls which is to be expected from this show runner. I was mostly into the episode until the Ishy and Egwene confrontation and that just totally took me off the episode. I can stomach this episode once I skip over those final few scenes.
@@Bookborn Totally, she is much more compelling and the actress is excellent. I dread for that moment from book 5 in the show, which I don’t think the show will change given it’s impact.
At this point, I do hope that Amazon just kill off Rand, Mat and Perrin, and state that Egwene is the Dragon Reborn. They're giving Rand's cool stuff to Egwene and Mat's stuff to Nynaeve, anyway. Then I can comfortably ignore it. And I'm pretty confident I wouldn't be alone in that. Although, come to think of it, that's probably why they're not killing off the main book characters ( _i.e., Rand, Mat and Perrin_ ). They need those three, however perfunctorily, for book viewers to stick around in a futile hope.
The Great Hunt is a massively important book for Rand and they removed him from all of it. Just like in season 1 his defining battles were taken from him too. He lacks any agency and just follows five paces behind whatever woman has charge of him, that or sink to his knees and weep. Has there ever been a more pathetic character in a fantasy show? Mat's iconic weapon is now a stick with a dagger tied to it... Perrin killed his wife in season 1 and has now murdered Geofram... The only good thing that could come of such a poor finale and the low viewing numbers is Amazon cancelling the show.
"The only good thing that could come of such a poor finale and the low viewing numbers is Amazon cancelling the show." I responded to someone else above with this: It's the end of the second season and WOT has only 1400 or so reviews with 4 stars. Dropping precipitously from its first season. Down from 30000 reviews. Another Amazon original - a fantasy - Good Omens - just started its second season, and it's already at 4.7 stars with over 4100 reviews. I think - and hope - that Amazon cancels this travesty. And that then hopefully the rights to the story get sold to an entity like HBO/Warner/Discovery, and we can get an actual adaptation, in my lifetime. 🤞🏽 A man can wish. 😊
I agreed with literally every point you made here. I recently reread the books so the book events are fresh in my mind, and if anything that makes the show more frustrating to watch. My friends (who have also read the books) keep saying to just appreciate the show for what it is. My frustration is not just that they rewrite parts of the story that they don't need to... It is also that even based on "show events" I agree that they fail their own characters. I feel like they change things from the book solely because they want to change things. The characters make less and less sense, and the plot holes in the show get worse with each season. Like you said in the video, they don't even follow their own rules?! This entire WoT series has felt like GoT Season 8 to me. They change things to distance themselves from the books, and it seems like they don't understand how much it will hurt their own story later. I seriously wonder if the people writing the show are only looking at the books one at a time. Do they realize how badly they are screwing up the later parts of this series by the failures they have in seasons 1 and 2? More and more viewers are abandoning the show. While I know Amazon is more resistant to cancelling shows compared to Netflix, FOX, etc. - I doubt WoT will make it past season 3 or 4. For me there were 3 massive fails this episode: 1. Mat suddenly being a "Hero of the Horn". The books go to great lengths to specifically say he is NOT a Hero of the Horn. That is a core part of his character that they have built up over the course of the books. He specifically says he doesn't want to be controlled by fate in that way. There is even a direct conversation that one of the Heroes has with Matt to talk about it. The show is doing a massive disservice to Mat with this story change. Unfortunately it seems like they are going to take away another massive story arc from Mat. Without going into spoilers, the book readers know what I am referring to. To instead replace Mat's entire story arc with a lazy rewrite of "Oh, he's a Hero of the Horn and that's why he has all these old war memories" really sucks. They are taking away everything that makes him an interesting character. 2. Literally everything with Mat's dagger this season has been a mess. Like you said in this video, they keep changing what the dagger does and does not do. Inwardly I groaned when Mat strapped the dagger to a pole in this season. As with point #1 above, I think they are using this contraption as a lame substitute for something else that Mat gets in the books. Such a waste of good storytelling here... Again, it just seems like lazy writing in the show. 2. The battle between Rand and Ishamael was a HUGE disappointment. They took an epic battle from the books and reduced it to, "Rand walks over to Ishamael and stabs him. Ishamael dies." .... Hah, what?! That's it?!?!
They probably should just have entirely cut the Horn of Valere from the show. Not worth doing half-assedly and confusing af for non-book readers. Just have Perrin + Mat chasing Fain and the dagger instead. Agree w/ it all being fairly underwhelming. Could probably just cut Rand out of the story too and just have The Egwene Reborn. Maybe just cut the whole thing, actually, lol.
I have really enjoyed your reviews.. I kinda felt like you were over it and not surprised If you don’t come back for season 3. I’ll miss your reviews for sure
It is crazy how similar my feeling about this show is to all of yours. After episode 7 I was so excited and then this episode was just so absurd. I think the biggest telling that this is a bad adaptation is pretty much all booktube people are constantly saying “if I just my book reader part go” am I the only one that thinks if you’re watching an adaptation you’re expecting it at least to be true to the actual story
I have found that I can't separate the book from the show, but it seems that there are things in the show that would make no sense if you haven't read the books (e.g. the Heroes of the Horn).
To let go of something I love to be able to stand something clearly inferior is not only settling for less, but helping perpetuate Hollywood’s bad habits. And I owe it to myself to truly enjoy something with as little conditions, if any, as possible
@@denglongfist4270 "To let go of something I love to be able to stand something clearly inferior is not only settling for less, but helping perpetuate Hollywood’s bad habits." I love this statement! If only RU-vid allowed us to "save" comments...
just my thoughts as well... hell, even the "Romeo and Juliet movie with Leonardo DiCaprio was more faithfull to the source and it had firearms and cars...
The Elayne halo was definitely a thing. I realize this is a matter of taste, but I very much like slow-burn relationships. I like that it takes literally books for the characters to finally get together. The closest thing to instantly falling in love is Min's vision of Rand, and even she's just like "please god no" before falling for him a book and a half later. So the move to sex-everywhere already bothered me, and now we've added in love-at-first-sight... *sigh*
I don’t know if you are a fan, or even aware of the TV Show Friends, but there is an Episode where every character on the Show makes a bet about their New Year’s Resolution, with respect to who will be able to keep to it longest. And Chandler, being the sarcastic wiseacre of the group is bet that he can’t keep from using his dry wit to make fun of his other 5 friends. In the end he gives up, pays up and pays out on them in one fell swoop and after he finishes, he just exhales in a sweet release of pure frustration. That’s sort of what hearing your thoughts was like for me here. Sweet Release. But not frustration, but unexpectedly incandescent fury that exploded after Episode 7 and just kept burning, watching this finale. I mean, it’s just a TV Show. Why do I care so much? And in consideration of that I realise, it isn’t about the absence of a genuine adaptation, any more. Nor is it about the chasm in talent on display in front of and behind the camera. It’s the weaponised head burying sycophancy, that gets wetter and wetter, the worse the Episodes get. Frankly, the level of heedlessness is almost inexplicable. The Producers really are oblivious to how awful their attempts at dramatic presentation actually are. And there are seemingly intelligent people, eagerly tying themselves into knots to further their delusions. It was so refreshing watching someone not being an absolute pretzel while making excuse after excuse for the inexcusable…. Because for me, this finale was worse than Season 1, because this is what they aimed for. A primary target so devoid of anything approaching artistic ambition or authentic storytelling that they were satisfied with giving viewers Captain America, Wonderwoman and an Immortal Wednesday Addams, instead of evoking the meanest granule of genuine Wheel of Time. I’ve had years of reading Process Writing from students ranging in age from 10-17… and even the worst efforts from kids who clearly couldn’t be bothered, display sharper focus on continuity than the utter swill Season 2 of Wheel of Time was eventually reduced to. My heartfelt thanks for giving me such sweet, relieving resonance with your presentation. I’m off to listen to Rosamund Pike perform Lan’s scene stealing moment, preparing Rand for the Amyrlin in the books. For me, that is now the ONLY redeeming feature of the existence of the otherwise pestilential TV Show. Not that the original audio books were bad… They are brilliant. But Rosamund Pike is exceptional, and listening to her read the first 3 books just highlights how amazing the TV Show could have been, if the people behind the camera had even a little talent or commitment to producing authentic work. ‘Why are you telling me this Lan? You’re a Warder. You’re acting as if you’re on my side.’ ‘I am on your side sheepherder. A little. Enough to help you a bit. What training you’ve had, I gave you. And I’ll not have you groveling and sniveling. The Wheel weaves us all into The Pattern as it wills. You have less freedom about it than most, but By The Light, you can still face it on your feet!’ Ahhhh. That’s better. Thank You again. I look forward to watching your Wrap Video.
I don't think you an do that double collaring either, it doesn't ever happen but it just doesn't make sense, why didn't renna start causing her pain? why didn't she block her from using the source?
It was like all that improvements during the season was tossed out of the window in the last episode. So many poor choices were made. I think i laughed 3 or 4 times during the episode,. I couldn't believe what i was seeing. Script problems and enormous plot holes aside, the direction for this episode was so unimaginative and flat that it even made it worse.. I mean Rand stabbing Ishy and him just standing there taking it... A fire dragon that has a booming voice?!!?!!!! I hate how angry this show has made me...
Someone described it to me as TV that you need to turn your brain off for, which is probably the most accurate description of how you need to watch it I've heard.
The way the collars worked Egwene shouldn't have been able to use it since she couldn't channel without being allowed. I also remember Mat specifically asking Hawking about being a warrior of the horn. He was relieved when he said no. Not a fan on a lot of the changes. I probably should wait until end of the video to comment though😅
@@stevenharvey3124 and thats not possible either since neither would've been able to hurt the other they even show that when renna tries to punch egwene, its just dumb all around
2:43 - It's maddening that Loial just strolls into frame with the Horn of Valere out of the blue, with the only explanation given is just some throwaway line about help from a Cairhienian lady off-screen. Rand had to kill Turak with the One Power because the showrunners made NO attempt to have Rand train with the sword over the past two seasons, which is ridiculous! Watching him progress from a shepherder into a master swordsman is something I was really looking forward to see, but no, we can't have good things. The show has not shown the boys practicing any form of martial training, yet there's Matt and Perrin battling it out against Seanchan and Whitecloaks like seasoned veterans because they "remember" or because of yellow eyes. And because Rand "fought" Ishamael on top of a tower, nobody on the ground could SEE it, so what were the people of Falme doing gathering around the tower and cheering Rand when they shouldn't have had any clue what was going on?! This is clearly why the battle needed to be IN THE SKY. Jordan's books deserve better.
I don't think he hates the male characters, but I think he's extremely misguided on what it means to be "feminist" and what makes a strong female character.
I think almost everything that's happened in both seasons can be boiled down to two things: 1. The creators want everything to revolve around strong female characters. They assume the books have weak female characters but don't know enough about them to realize there are already a tonne of strong female characters. So, they alter people's storylines and personalities to be what they think are strong female characters. 2. Because of the lower-than-expected rating in the 1st season, they don't believe they have 14 seasons to finish it. So, they're merging multiple storylines to save time, even at the cost of drastically changing the story. I feel almost every scene I've watched that veers from the books can be explained by one or both of those reasons.
I just want to say how much I appreciate you doing these videos. I understand you might not want to do Season 3, but I will secretly hope you change your mind with time. You do a great job of showing the ridiculousness, without being vitriolic and angry. You are just sad and disappointed like me. I know I will dislike more than half of it, but I love whatever I can get that is remotely true to the soul of the books (even if its unearned in the show). It is probably unhealthy lol.
I agree! And some of the changes they make are actually pretty good! Like Lanfear, or Liandrin. I really love hearing Bookborn's thoughts on the differences and similarities, and I hope she changes her mind about S3 (although I'll understand if not).
Wow...just wow. Rafe really hates Rand. Can there really be anything else that explains how Rand lost his moment at the end of season 1 and then AGAIN at the end of season 2? The show is so far from the books now, could we say its less than 5% faithfully adapted? Ok..fine. Then if your going to make changes your show can't claim its faithful to the books, it has to stand on its own merits. There are so many logical inconsistencies and off screen moments that are just sigh. I am totally on team Lanfear and she was the best part for me right up to the moment of how stupid could she be? Ishy knew she was betraying him the moment they left their meeting. It seems she got the horn to Loial and Ingtar and talked to the ship captain but where was she after that? She couldnt sense the Damane somehow shielding a mile away over the ocean to a person they couldn't even see? She loves him but left him alone to die up there. It would have made way more sense for Lanfear to be the one to hold off Ishy, instead Egwene is going girlboss and Nyneave is supposed to be even more powerful than Egwene when she can channel? So Rand is what? Also how does Elayne and Nyneave teleport to the top of the tower when she never fixed the wound Elayne had? Who is writing this? I think there are like 10 executive producers, I just...wow.
The explanation is that you were tryinh so hard to miss Rand's big moment that you managed to do just that. Rand did get his big moment at the end of episode S2E8. Watch the scene carefully from the part when the shield is released on him. He takes over the shield (Egwene and Perrin are visibly relieved), absorbs Ishy's fireballs somehow and changes how the shield look (and some rainbow hue is added which may be him, the group taveren thing or whatever), then Ishy is stopped from channeling altogether (and/or gives up), he walks up to him, with saidin glowing around him and clearly channeled into his sword, then stabs him and he is undone (which we saw how big of a deal it is, compare to Lanfear surviving).
I was not trying to miss it, it never came. Nothing that happened was from the books. Rand, Perrin, Nyneave and Elyane were all trying to save Egwene, the entire plotline of Nyneave and Elayne was set up to save her and it was dropped. Rand and Ishy were to fight in the sky, Rand allows sheathes Ishies blade in his body to strike the killing blow. None of this happened. Instead its girlboss moment of Egwene stepping in to hold of Ishy, which is beyond stupid. When Rand finally gets off his back again, he may have strengthed the shield..sure but his killing Ishy is so anticlimatic since Ishy is not even trying anymore, he literally just stands there and lets Rand stab him. Exactly where is Rand's moment again? Also, nobody saw the moment since they are ontop of a tower that none below could see anything. Nyneave is the great healer, she can't do anything, so Elayne does it? Fan fiction at this point.@@csarmii
Yep, that's when Bornhald Sr questions him and Egwene, because he killed a couple of Whitecloaks (In the dark and confusion, not after clear, calm thought) Bornhald Jr then blames him for the fact that his dad died at Falme, because he's a Darkfriend. Now, Rafe had him kill his dad for real, after they were friends... I don't get it.
Ishamael just standing doing nothing while Rand sabbed him was outrageously bad. Egwane being able to hold back Ishi and him not only just using the most basic weaves on the shield but also allowing Nynaeve and Elayne just join the others was so bad I laughed. After this season I can't really argue against the ppl who say they intentionally are dumbing down the male characters, all male characters in the show are just worse versions of the books. Also, I really don't like how the dark friends confront the forsaken instead of the absolute fear and servitude they have in the books.
Rand feels like a side character, who has to be saved by women all the time. I don't mind him being saved, but he's supposedly the most powerful channeler in the world, and he's... had not a single moment where we get to see this... like come on? Ishamael ending was anticlimatic...
if there is something i will miss about the series is your videos after episode i am 100% with you. I honestly don't know what they are even trying to do
I'm soo bummed because I quite enjoyed episode 6+7 and so if they had just managed to really get a great episode 8 I feel like it would've turned me around on the whole thing
Cheers to you for calling out the inconsisties, and explaining the difference between books n series, and letting us know that this is more of a drama than a fantasy show.
Moraine broke the three oaths by attacking the ship (unless collateral damage is a loophole). The arrival of the Whitecloaks was not set up at all. I don’t think they were shown anywhere else during the season. By the end of the episode, nearly everyone has taken a sharp turn toward the dark. Egwene is a murderer. So is Perrin. Nynaeve engages in torture. Things missing from the books (maybe permanently?) - Faile. I wouldn’t necessarily mind this. Birgitte is maybe visible for a quarter of a second among the heros. If the seals are now all broken, what’s holding the Dark One prisoner? Also, if the material creating the seals is so strong that Lews Therin couldn’t break it (as stated in the prologue), and if Rand had needed a sa’angreal to break Ishy’s in season 1, then how is it child’s play for Ishy to break all the rest. Oh, and what happened to that sa’angreal? Finally, it turns out the Falme prophecy is simply a bit of propaganda created by Moraine? (And an incredibly cheesy effect, IMO). Thus, any channeler with enough power could have fulfilled it. I liked the season, and liked it way more than season 1. I like to think of it as not being Jordan’s books, but another turning of the Wheel. Ages come and go. I will be really disturbed if this is how Mat gets his memories. If so, how did his earlier incarnations get their memories? It’s turtles all the way down. What I am not liking are the number of inconsistencies and gaps in what we have, and the terrible lack of set up for a number of things which do appear in the show.
Spot on (except for the Nynaeve thing...she did that in the books too). The Perrin thing was horribly done. He just straight up murdered a Whitecloak. They were there fighting the invaders, and saw a wolf attacking one of their own. I understand Hopper defending Perrin, but sorry to say, that kill on Hopper was justifiable from a Whitecloak. Egwene getting off on murder was gross. While she wanted to do it in the books, and Nynaeve pulled her off, it was an emotional reaction then, and she calmed down and saw reason. For her to just sit there calmly and enjoying watching Renna die was disgusting.
"I plan on reading the books to find out what really happened." A surefire way to come to detest this TV series. But the right decision. I'm envious of you, as you will be discovering the books for the first time.
Firstly, *hug* your pain sings in my heart. Ugh this episode broke me, they just took a simple ending, rafed it, and then left us broken. First my boy ingtar, seriously would it have been so hard to give him the redemption, rand wasn't there to give the last embrace of the mother line but I'd have been ok with Perrin standing in here as he's been the hunter of the horn... seriously it would have taken 1 minute to do Secondly, Rosalind puke needs to be removed from the planet, I really wish they had gotten a smaller unknown actor to play her, as you can feel her claws all over the season interjecting herself where she has no reason to screen time lost to hubris. Thirdly, I really wish this show was written by a man and a woman, cos that lack of male steering just leaves egwene to be that wishful dragon... get over it rafe egwene isn't the dragon. I nearly stopped watching when she stepped in to fight ishy... I was cheering ishy here, kill her, do it... but then the writers have made me emphasis with the forsaken as they humanized them, is funny, I've said this before but you write what you know and the writers sure areb making the evil characters more human, says a lot Nthly, lost track of my rant..where is my fight above falme, how hard would it have been too cgi rand vs ishy above the tower fighting? Oh wait see previous point it would probably been egwene. Nthly+1 they did mat dirty, I weaned to see him blow the horn as the forlorn hope, like obvs got nothing better to do so why not. Then be greeted by hawking as an old friend and rival... but then only book readers knew the guy was hawkwing. That dagger has such mystical properties, first it kills instantly, but not in season 1... or rand, that plot armour. Hopper didn't even get his soaring death, to fly to leap nah just axed in the back, still sad. Egwene is now a murderer, she straight up killed renna, such a hero, fuck this show, I hope rafe gets a pox *rage*
I agree with everything you said, but the Chosen being more human I do like because they are. RJ just didn't like them and didn't want to show both sides but very few people are Voldemort without a soul and I think many of the Chosen were human if Dark. I used to write in a wot RP back in the day, and I wrote Semirhage in a relationship with Demandred that I felt RJ hinted at with their level of trust and other things, and it was fun, but they didn't go soft or anything to be more human.
That’s Hawkening to you sir. Check the x-ray on that horn scene.😂 I feel like this a Monty python skit and the book is the butt of the jokes in many ways.
Full disclosure, I've disagreed with almost every one of your vids this season (which is fine, we're all fans, don't have to all agree). That's not the case here. You're spot on. I don't want to disrespect Rafe or contribute to a pile on of the guy, but he is just not up to the task of adapting this IP. There's so much set up that isn't paid off here. So much unearned fan service. So much waste. Even just on a pure production level, so much is not working or coming off unserious. From the campy score to rote blocking to the baffling editing choices, the dialogue...just...what are we doing here? Are the actors that physically stiff, or are the editors picking shots intended for close-ups or reactions and using them for wides? What on earth are we doing with Egwene? Why is Rand still a side character? Why is Moghedien talking about "the five?" A big part of why WoT became what it is because it deconstructs "chosen one" tropes with Rand, specifically. Why are we robbing him of that? Why are we robbing the other characters of their EARNED feats and arcs by forcing prophetic chosen one themes on them when that's not the thrust of their stories? I'm reminded of Zack Snyder's Watchmen watching this finale. Parts of it work and work well, even better than the source material. But the parts that don't work, and the reasons they aren't working, are indicative of someone who fundamentally doesn't understand the source material; doesn't understand what is being commented on or deconstructed in the source material. That understanding is crucial and is what separates the Watchmen from The Avengers, or in this case (2/3rds of ) Game of Thrones from the Wheel of Time. Rafe, buddy, you gotta come correct man.
I hope you change your mind on Season 3. You're by far the most unbiased reviewer of the show. I read the books a few times and don't like the show for many of the same reasons but I want to know what happens next season without having to watch. Please suffer for us?
@@Bookborn I had a moment of revelation (which I'm sure must be wrong) when Mat blew the horn and the heroes told him they always fight by his side: Of the 4 or 5 "kids" from Two Rivers, Rand isn't the Dragon Reborn. They all are! Egwene is strong enough to hold off what I thought was the strongest Forsaken. Nynaeve is strong enough to channel in the Arches. Mat has fought with the heroes through the ages. Rand is a master channeller. And Perrin is ... well, I'm sure he'll do something eventually. Or maybe that's all explained in the books, I don't know. I barely know what's going on, especially when the book readers don't know either. I'll say one thing about the show - it kept people talking. I'll give the show 6.5 / 10. Almost Good. I don't think it will ever be Good until it spends time on the right things.
Nope, it is not just you - anti-climatic is far more generous than how I would describe it tbh. It followed exactly the same pattern as S1 ep8, set everything up then not deliver and I am sure, by now, that this is just to make their Dragoness stand out as much as possible, with the added bonus of completely neutering Rand al Thor, who is actually, the Dragon. It was gross. Again. It's not even the changes, I am with you there too mate. It's quite literally the treatment of characters - the Nynaeve thing basically felt like a Troll tbh. We set up the right thing, then just nah, Eggy dont need no help derrrrrrr. I am still laughing about mat's duct tape ashendarei. Even the heroes of the horn had to have a girlboss lol. It can't get cancelled soon enough. Mat did blow the horn tho so yay! Fan service! We should all just be happy and sit down and take it i guess.
They literally killed Uno so you’d know those called by the horn are dead. Because without a notably dead character, and no Thom to explain all this, WTF are these people if you’re just watching.
This is not only my favorite episode of the show, it's my favorite piece of media. It goes: -This episode -Ozymandias episode of Breaking Bad -The Godfather -Rewatching the Godfather with a woman so I can explain it to her -Lord of the Rings So honestly just not sure what you're not seeing here. My FAVORITE part is when the showrunner didn't understand how stories work, because it subverts expectations. I'll let you guess what part I mean! Btw real fans know that you actually wiggle your toes in order to do a weave. That's why sometimes you don't see them, because they're wearing shoes. So basic of you
Let the hate flow! I am! Huge fan of the books let go of any dream that this show would honor them after season 1 finale and now season 2 just as a generic fantasy show has left me only watching to have information on why I hate it and to tell others don't watch it lol.
Not just you. I feel the exact same way. The whole thing with Egwene was a problem for me too. How she saved herself and then faced off against the forsaken, it's not realistic. And them making Rand so weak is annoying.
They couldn't have a fight between ishamael and Rand because then how can Eugene come to his rescue. The Hack has neutered the male characters so Egwewe can be the girl boss. He would quite clearly prefer it if she was the Dragon
Come to his rescue after saving herself, at that. She didn't need Nynaeve or Elayne (or Min) at all, so everything they went through was utterly pointless. Then she beat a sul'dam with her sheer power of will lol.
@@Bookborn "I mean, ironically, Egwene couldve still come to his rescue while he was shielded" Why does she have to come to his rescue? Why does every single male character from the book have to an Anti-Sue in the show?
@@mantheking The whole thing seems very generic and disjointed. We have Seanchan that can channel all the way from the sea to the tower, we have Moraine that channel huge waves or fire to destroy the seachan, we have 10 sisters that linked together in episode 7 to quench the fire in cairhien, we have Egwene that can stop the 2nd most powerful channeler ever. We have Rand, the most powerful channeler ever decides not to channel but stabs the 2nd most powerful channel while he did nothing to stop it. How can we make theories? How can we rank these people powers. I thought Ish was in control and calculative... this episode shows he is even dumber than rand
Oh, don't get me wrong, she doesn't. My point is that those two things are necessarily related; if they really wanted Egwene to help Rand, she still could have, without taking the fight/epic moment away from Rand at the end. @@mantheking
I agree on every critique on this episode. The Turak "fight" scene made me chuckle as well. The sounding of the HoV was underwhelming, as was the fight with Ishy (obviously they wouldn't do the whole fight in the sky, but still...). Nynaeve doing absolutely nothing was frustrating. Rand (finally) meeting Elayne was a tone-deaf moment. Moirraine blowing all the ships was questionable because of the three oaths, as was Egwene collaring Rena. I can find a lore-friendly explanation for Moirraine, but the latter is more tricky. Well, at least we didn't have Egwene heal anyone with her magical tears again! Although, holding a magical barrier against Ishy's weaves? What? If she can do that, Nynaeve would've burned him into a crisp! Who needs the Dragon Reborn? I'm sure they're heavily leaning towards the "power of friendship" trope. Anyway, in a weird way I enjoyed this season more than the first one (and I hadn't read the books then). The visual representation of the world and characters is interesting to see, as for some of the story choices... let's say it's better to suspend your disbelief as well as your book knowledge to enjoy this show lol.
Only thing I love about the episode is Lan catching 2 arrows with ease lol. Not even sure if he could do that in the books or not but I literally jumped out of my chair when I saw that 😂
@@Bookborn your standards are lower than mine if you thought this scene was "good" :) If you can't choreograph a fight with 1 person defending against multiple attackers, don't use wide shots, then you wont have to have 1 person engaged while 2 others flail around pointlessly. Also, the single file approach was laughable.
In the books, Lan doesn't do anything that cool, but Mat does. In his first encounter with the Gholam, the Gholam pulls the knife out of its side and throws it at Mat, who _absently_ catches it, before turning it blade side up to note that there is no blood on it ( _from the Gholam_ ).
Show Moiraine is a dark friend. She’s not bound by the oaths. She kills people right and left and then by the thousand for no reason… Show Moiraine is more deadly and evil than the forsaken.
I really enjoyed your content this season. I made the choice to not watch the show and instead listen to reviews like yours. I don't see a way for the show to improve much next season when the showrunner is the worst writer in a group of bad writers. Season 1 he wrote episode 1 and 8 both are the worst episodes that season and this season he wrote the last episodes. Going off reddit and other reviews it seems this last episode was all over the place and not in line with book canon in the slightest. I agree with your decision to not discuss next season
There were so many problems with this episode couldn't go 5 minutes without pausing and sighing at the sheer stupidity of it. And the last few minutes I was just dumbfounded at the audacity of the writers. Like how the hell did they even come up with this bottom of the barrel fanfiction.
Am I the only one who has a big problem with Perrin killing Bornhald(name?). In the books, the son wanting revenge for a crime Perrin did not commit makes it a tragic story, where he is being manipulated to fulfil others goals just like his Dad. In the show, he is now justified to kill Perrin and his family.
This show is absolute shlock, and I am a fantasy nerd. I have found myself watching the show just to see how bad it is. In response to your review: 1 - Please watch and review season. Your reviews help keep some of us Robert Jordan fans sane. 2 - The writing and direction of the show is so bad that people miss how bad the acting is. Game of Thrones got amazing actors to bring their characters to life. There were a few misses, but so many of them were so strong. After Moraine, Ishy, and Lanfear, the acting stinks. I find myself rooting for Lanfear as well
As a non-book reader, I can share some of your sentiments about this final episode, especially the following two things: - Rand's development: his two fights (if you can even call them so) were so uneventful and did not have any impact on his character development. In general, as a non-book reader I keep thinking: okay, everyone says he is so strong, can I finally see at least parts of it? - Nynaeve: I was also sure we were going to get something similar to when she found Lan dying in season 1. They set her up with the Arches to be extremely powerful and she was pretty underwhelming in the second half of the season and especially in this episode. I still enjoyed the episode, however, and am optimistic for season 3 as they have done some things very well this season and I hope they continue the trend. As a non book reader they gave enough momentum to be looking forward to season 3 (the friends are reunited, the Forsaken set free, Rand is finally "becoming" the dragon) Maybe two things to add: - Mat's story arc (if you want to call it that) does not make sense to me. I read up on him on the wiki and I get that they had trouble with the actor switch thing and that forced their hands story wise, but I hope season 3 helps understand his character better - Heron mark: nope, I did not understand the relevance of the mark. I felt like they wanted to set this up for season 3 maybe?
