Saddle Angle: Have We Been Getting It All Wrong? 

Have you tried changing your saddle angle? 📐

I'm a fairly new rider and had my saddle pointed down ever so slightly and noticed that I had absolutely no discomfort riding but following advice of other riders I leveled it out. Instantly noticed a difference started having discomfort. So I think pointing a saddle down slightly is beneficial for me at least.

I just DONT care what other cyclists say about my saddle angle. My saddle is pointing down 4 degrees since I ride road bikes. Because it’s the best position for me. And that’s the only thing that counts.

normally "flat" is measured across the middle part of the saddle where you actually sit that is supposed to be flat and not across the entire saddle the way the UCI is measuring. Many saddles have rear support going up or nose tip pointing down. If you measure across the entire saddle, it will seem to point "down" even when the middle part is actually "flat". Anyway, "flat" across the middle of the saddle is a good place to start and slightly "down" from there is fine if it works for you

They touched on this but it's the most important thing to remember. 99% of riders should not copy the pros. They are freaks of nature and can handle more extreme positions. They produce much more power than the rest of us and this power takes considerably more weight off of the hands, arms, and shoulders. For the rest of us, tilting your saddle forward will just put undo stress on those area and cause problems. We have to stop comparing ourselves with the pros.

I'm finding the trend of snub nose saddles makes it LOOK like the saddle is tilting down but the part you actually contact, is about level. The tail of the saddles have a sweep and it makes level tougher to find.

I say have your saddle at the most comfortable angle for you. I tilt mine down slightly, to take pressure off the front area. Too much, and it's then uncomfortable on my butt, so it's a fine balance! I have the same saddle on my gravel and road bikes. As the geometry is different between the bikes, the tilt of the saddle needs to be different, so that the angle feels the same when I'm sitting on each bike. It took a lot of faffing about in my kitchen and then testing around the village about 100 times for me to realise this 😊

I'm a commuting cyclist in a very windy region. I changed to flat bars many years ago, and found that, whilst generally comfortable, cycling into the wind was awful. So, I added tri bars, which really helped on those windy days, but made setting the saddle angle really tricky. I think I have now got the worst of all worlds - compression of the nether regions when using the tri bars, and numb hands when I'm on the flat bars. A tilting saddle sounds like heaven!

My rule of thumb is with modern kick-up saddle shape, the tail of the saddle - the nose of the saddle - the handle bar of the bike should be inline. Or simply the saddle should point to your handle bar. That gives me an overall best.

Ive always rode with a 2-4% negative saddle drop never had any issues great content Content Conor.

Good video, it’s nice that the bike fitter addressed the angle of different saddle shapes, in particular the SMP. I’ve use SMP’s for a long time and through trial and error came to the same conclusions as the bike fitter.

I'm at around 1.5 degrees down myself. Even minute changes of 0.1-0.2 degrees I notice a difference. As of right now this seems to be a happy medium for me. If I tilt lower I slide towards the nose causing perennial pressure, more hand pressure, pain in the traps, knees. Tilt back I sit further back on the saddle. I do get a bit less hand pressure but can't rotate hips so I get lower back pain, chafing from the wider part of the saddle and also more perennial pressure. In either direction I'm slower as well. Though since the tilt changes where I sit on the saddle then maybe changes in saddle height and fore/after to compensate might be worth experimenting more with. Less hand pressure with similar power and no lower back pain would be ideal.

Just know that setting it vertical is quite uncomfortable.

When I installed aero bars (2-3 years ago), I started changing the saddle angle after looking at Mark Beaumont's saddle. I have since found the sweet spot for comfort and even when I'm not using the bars, I feel like there is less pressure on my crotch with a slight angle. Definitely worth trying!

Interesting information. Thanks!! I may experiment with tilt just a bit. HOWEVER, I should pass this on. I had been having problems with a sore butt even after a 40 mile ride. I was about to start buying new saddles to find one that would give me a better ride, but then I had the idea to try moving my existing saddle back a bit (maybe 1/4 inch). I noticed a big difference. I slid it back even more, for a total of maybe 3/4 inch. I recently completed a century ride with no problems at all. Maybe you could discuss moving the saddle forward or backward with a fitter. Might not be worth a full episode, but might be good for a GCN Tech question.

Bryan's remote-tilt saddle idea makes more sense than setting the nose downward when, say, 10% of one's overall ride is going up, creating other potentially negative results to the rider's body due to position for that other 90% of the time. My rides routinely have 1,300-1,700 ft of gain over 25-30 miles, mostly in short, steep (up to 15%) climbs. Setting my saddle to compensate for maybe 5 of that 30 miles seems to raise concerns of comfort--my #1 goal for a successful ride; and since it would appear that a comfortable rider is a more efficient rider (see all the evidence of tire pressure-related performance gains), I think I'll take those two, related, factors, and ride a nearly flat saddle setting. Of course, riders more concerned with flat out speed will pooh pooh such frilly thinking; but as I enter my 36th year of riding (and between 250,000-300,000 total miles), I can say my desire for the highest performance is now behind me (cough cough).

I've had my saddles tilted 6° downwards for many years (short nose saddles, measured by placing a piece of wood on top of the saddle so it rested front and back), as a result of explicit testing in bikefits on multiple bikes.

My saddle had a slight upward tilt, like 1-2 degrees. I realised it after years and decided to tilt it downwards today to see if it works. It really did help in terms of comfort and pressure on the buttocks/ bones as well as ease of riding But after 5 hrs of riding, I started feeling discomfort in my shoulders and neck. But still I feel downward tilt is the best as it helped me cover 100 kms with ease. Only started today, will update more later.

Interesting video! What we experimented is the design of the saddle helps to increase the power benefit that you been mentioning without the problems to have a forward tilt. On the video, I missed to mentioned that a forward tilt the cyclist slides on the nose, where the saddle is narrow INCREASING THE PRESSURE IN THE PROSTATIC AREA

I use a downward angle of 2-3 degrees. A steeper angle seems appropriate for people who spend a lot of time in the drops. I'm not doing that so a slight tilt is better for me.

I’ve always been a fan/slave to a flat saddle angle, in my bike fit this year we adjusted my saddle to have a -1.6 degree tilt which along with a few other tweaks definitely improved my comfort on the bike.

As someone with lower back pain I can confirm that a small negative tilted saddle helps reduce (my) back pain. We don't sit in an "L" shape on a bike, so there's little need for a horizontally flat saddle. Of course it's all a personal preference, so experiment.

For most riders a subtle increase in power output is wastly uninteresting, compared to their saddle comfort and the avoidance of saddle sores. So your saddle should be adjusted for that and nothing else.

if your saddle is at 0 degrees on flat ground - and you are riding a 10% or 20% gradient - it will REMAIN 0 degrees to the ground regardless of the gradient - MOST riders do tilt forward at the hips to compensate for the gradient and increase in power required by driving into the pedals harder when in the saddle - similar to how a sprint runner tilts forward to get maximum propulsion - the steeper the pitch the MORE the hip tilt - but this technique also occurs on the flats when a rider attempts to get into a deep aero-tuck to reduce wind drag - they are the EXACT same kinematic postures - I think the reason for 0 degrees saddle is to evenly distribute the body weight on the load bearing points of the pelvis bones structural - this is what the manufacture has designed for at 0 degrees - so when you tilt your saddle forward you are disrupting that weight distribution and overloading certain skeletal load bearing points - sure mountain climbing may benefit with tilting forward but the majority of the race parcours is flat or rolling terrain - with comparably short intermittent mountains - point being - while you MIGHT improve performance on mountains - you are almost certain to develop OTHER physiological issues long-term - upper shoulder-elbow-wrist-hand come to mind as they are going to be forced to take on MORE load bearing duties than they otherwise would - to PROVE this - tilt your saddle forward 20-30 degrees and go for 1-2h ride - you WILL feel it - so even at 10 degrees that added load will be there - in short - I think it is a BAD idea - just a trendy fad - I am certain it is NOT the reason Pogabike wins races - his power in the mountains comes when he is OUT OF THE SADDLE after all - less so when he is in it

-8 works great for me. Love being able to roll forward, hunker up a bit and use the whole torso to drive through the glutes.

I have always tried to have the "nose" of the saddle parallel to the ground. since the rear end of the saddle is usually going up a bit more putting the water spirit level from end to tip will mean the nose of the saddle is pointing up. So I'm putting the level just on the front half of the saddle and try to get that part level which means that completely back to front is slightly down.

Had mine adjusted million times to get the best position that suits my style. Its always slightly nose up. This reduces burdens on my palm and butt. Less fidgeting around the saddle too as its comfortable enough for long ride.

As one of the comments said, we should be measuring saddle tilt based on the rails. If the rails are parallel to the ground, then the saddle is at 0 degree tilt. This should be used as standard method of measurment that provides common baseline/starting point as there are too many different saddle shapes above the rails.

By mistake/accident, my saddle got set up about 3 degrees negative on my roadbike before a 100 mile fondo. Had to do with travelling and bike packaging for shipping. Anyway, I can vouch for me, and I won't be tilting my saddle forward. I couldn't understand how come I kept sitting on the nose with a ton of pressure on the lower region, and this also made the bike feel "short". So for me at least, I'll leave mine 0-degrees level. I ride with a Selle Italia SLR Gel Flow which does have quite a bit of padding and sort of flat, so I slid forward all the time. In disclosure, halfway through we did a roadside hack and got it somewhere about 1 degree b/c by then I knew I had some issue, I just didn't understand it. Ahh what we learn by trial and ERROR.

Was just adjusting my saddle tilt and as if GCN heard my plea for help this video came up 30 mins later 😂

Last year I was experiencing a lot of pain developing in my right knee, thought it might be a bike fit issue, took the bike in,, as soon as I sat on it the bike fitter saw the problem, my saddle was angle too far down, hence all my weight was moving forward resulting in too much pressure on my knees as I was subconsciously trying to push my weight back up the saddle. So in short, yeas, very important to get yer saddle sorted.

I'm 6'4 on a 60cm cyclocross bike that I use for gravel and road biking... they have slightly different geometry from a strict road bike... I find myself never being able to find a true/perfect position. I'd say my limb lengths, torso lengths are all proportionate (in other words, I'm not 6'4 with long arms/legs short torso, or short legs long torso... I'm proportionate). In order to get full leg extension... I extend my seat post fully at its limit. Maybe 1cm passed it actually. Not only that, but I have to slide my saddle all the way back for a bit more leg extension, and reach (Since if I keep the saddle neutral or forward, I feel cramped up front). I even have a 110mm long stem. The position this puts me in.. gives me a feeling of kicking forward while my femur bones are too close to my torso (which doesn't allow me to put out as much power... although it puts me in a more aero position). Issue is... If I shorten the stem... I'm cramped. If I slide seat foward... I'm cramped. If I slide seat post down... legs don't get extension. I think I've come to the conclusion that my frame just isn't enough for me... Gotta go full road bike, maybe a 61cm. Thoughts from anyone? Looking for all the ideas I can get...

Excellent piece Conor. You’re a natural broadcaster. Are you going to do similar ‘cause and effect’ for the rest of the bike setup? Bars, cranks, stems? Etc.

Very informative video excellent analysis.

Great info Connor and GCN, thanks! Since the bike angle always matches the slope of the road, if a rider maintains a consistent position when starting a climb, there would be no extra rotation of the hip or pelvic joint. So, I suspect that a negative seat angle on climbs helps compensate for slight shifts in rider position while seated, and perhaps more importantly, a shift in the rider's pedal force, or downstroke direction. That is, the main push of the downstroke may shift from roughly vertical on the flats, eg: 12 oclock to 6 o'clock, to slightly forward like 1 o'clock to 7 o'clock on hills. From Newton's famous action / reaction law, this force shift would tend to cause a rearward slide on the saddle, which can be compensated for by a negative saddle tilt. In fact, any riding position or natural pedalling tendency that emphasizes a more forward oriented downstroke, harnessing more glutes and hamstrings than quads, may benefit from a negative saddle angle, for the same reason.

Hello. My saddle used to be perfectly level. I tilted it down in the spring and forgot about it, but did develop intense pain on my bottom. It took a few rides before I linked the pain to the saddle position I had changed. I put it back to level and pain was gone. Few weeks later I had a bike fit with a pro, and he decided to tilt the saddle again. Pain came back immediately. I leveled the saddle again and pain is no more. So in my case, titlting the saddle is a no-no

I've been playing around with saddle angle for a while now. My saddle has a very slight "valley" in the middle where it feels comfortable for me. I had it nose down by about 3-ish degrees and didn't really slide forward, but I did notice some "pressure" in that direction. Just a sort of tugging that was trying to pull my chamois toward the rear. I moved it more toward flat and that issue seems to have gotten less pronounced. This seems like one of those personal preference adjustments for sure. What feels comfortable for one person won't work another. Just my experience...

I would like to see this video content discussed by Manon for a woman’s input. Obviously men and women are different in the bottom region. Does this have to be considered when looking at saddle angle?

Does the height difference between the saddle and the handlebars have any impact on saddle tilt. Surely a slammed handlebar will require more negative tilt.

My bit fit for saddle is -6 degree and short nose saddle. So comfy

My saddle position changes slowly over the season and of course with different saddles. As a Long Distance /Endurance rider comfort is faster for me. I basically start at level and then make small adjustments if I notice that I am sliding forward or back on the saddle (leather saddles Brooks or Berthoud). I have recently bought a 3D printed saddle and notice that I want to tilt it down slightly (you just don't slid at all on these). As always just my 2 cents

Change in small increments only if at all! That was good advice.

I have noted this thread with astonishment.... I already dealt with this topic 35 years ago. On my mountain bike, where I ride up much steeper ramps. My saddle was and is always tilted forward. On my mountain bike a bit more than on my road bike. I have developed a sense for it over the years. Do I feel comfortable or not? The proof of the pudding is in the eating.

When I was 20 I had a 40kph wind pushing my body back and I had nose down saddle. 50 years later the upper body weight is larger and the wind is less. My saddle is flat these days or I get arm and shoulder fatigue. And the bars are higher.

You can see from the responses that measuring the angle of various saddles , and what "flat" means, on different saddles remains confusing. Flat on a new Arione will be zero degrees, while it might be -6 degrees on a SMP. This was touched upon in the clip, but remains unclear.

I have always run my saddle a .5 to 1 degree down. I was also running 25mm tires well before the pros went to wider tires. Guess that makes me a trend setter. 😁

I live in a hilly area. Constantly up and down. I run -8% or saddle nose .5 inch lower than the rear end and sit towards the rear of the saddle while climbing. When the road flattens out i slide forward, lower my shoulders and tilt my pelvis forward. It helps keep my thighs out of my belly too😊

I found that I have to tilt my saddle back rather than forwards. If it's tilted forwards I get wrist pain. If it's tilted backwards I get numbness in the nether region when going uphill. The wrist pain quickly becomes unbearable and persists even after the ride, so that's a no-go. On the other hand, I have found that I can shift around a bit on the bike to afford a position to relieve the numbenss (if the saddle isn't tilted too far back and the numbness is only slight). Maybe this would decrease my power output going uphill a little bit while going uphill but tbh I couldn't care less if it improves my comfort and if it means I can ride for longer.

Excellent and informative. Thanks. 🥂

I think you need to start with the correct sadle to support your body with you seat bones and supported first of all not sitting on soft tissue, so right width sadle. The saddle angle should related to the seat bones forward which should be level with the ground and tilting down as required. More tilt should relate to handle bar height and reach as with hip rotation forwards. Triathlons and time trials more commonly wiill require more tilt forward as with any cycling in aero positions. In my opinion.

at 4:20 your flat saddle would be at the angle of the hill, not half of the angle. As far as setting the angle, It's another case where what it looks like doesn't match up with reality. Firstly, your saddle shape plays a role,, depending on how your sit bones follow the shape. Often to get your sit bones kind of flat could need some tilt in either direction, and could be different between different people. Secondly, the idea of a flat saddle relies on the assumption that you're balancing on the saddle, where most people are holding some weight on their feet, and to a lesser degree hands.. Both of these supports will add some push backward, which can sometimes be better balances by slightly tilting the saddle down. Really, it makes most sense to adjust by feel. I end up with different angles depending on the saddle, and depending on the bike it's installed on.

only part of a saddle that should be (approximately) flat is the front half (in profile). that usually means the rear has a nice little kick-up which is more supportive and helps with power production 'cause you can sort of push off it. so there.

I've always found tilting the saddle more comfy and I've gotten used to it. Now the 0 tilt angle feels weird for me.

Pretty interesting. I swapped saddle not that long ago and noticed that the shape is definitely looking more pointed down, since then I've began to experience a bit of lasting knee pain and the return of tingly hands while I'm out riding. Off to tilt it back up now, fingers crossed.

As a mtber I've heard of, but never been fussed by the negative views of saddle adjustment, but have always found my saddle is comfortable with quite a negative angle. It seems a bit odd that peer pressure has stopped people experimenting with ways that may improve comfort on their bike. But then you don't see bar ends on MTBs anymore so who am I to judge!

Good data here that makes perfect sense, but it can't be looked at in isolation - everything interacts. I think the saddle angle should be paired with the stem drop. Pros slam their stems giving you better aerodynamics, and the saddle tilting down would relive the strain on the lumbar and sacrum. My lower back is fused from L4 through S1 and I have to tilt my saddle down even on a more upright gravel bike.

Unlike the pros, the rest of us also usually have to come *down* the very same slopes that we climb so any climb-favorable tilt should not end up causing instability on the way down.

People with an SMP will know. Saddle angle is everything! But its not really related to how it works on most saddles. It is all about sitting in that curved cradle. -4.2 degrees on an SMP dynamic as shown in the video. Haha yes there is a difference between 4 and 4.5 degrees nose down.

Most saddle are concave when you look at lateral profile. I don't know why. Slightly convex saddle work much better for me. Curvature of saddle make a huge difference.

10:02 I sit on about -8 to -10. This is mainly for comfort as 90 percent of the time im in the tri bars as the handle bar’s flares up my carpal tunnel. I find this pretty comfortable for even long rides. Any flatter and i end up with a little bruising. 😢. I also find it works really well going up hill as a backstop to put some seated power through the pedals.😊

2-5 degrees base off of the flat portion of the seat which generally the front. Youth, ( under 35 ), is where flexibility still exists. The older one gets, less flexibility, the more the stem angle comes up and back, the less we are into the drops. At 68 I still prefer a drop bar, no flat, with around 1-3 inches of bar height below the nose of the seat. I've had my nose down where I was nosed down too much but was comfortable. I fit myself, it comes close enough. Generally the only time I've experienced knee pain was when I had my seat too far forward or backward and height not adjusted correctly. As far as the back pain and shoulders, I keep my core extremely strong and do an array of upper body exercises such as shoulder shrugs to keep my neck strong. I share nearly the same seat heights, angle, fore and aft positioning on both my gravel and road bikes. Comfort is key, first in the saddle then my extremities, (body).

Been doing it on my bikes.. but it depends on if I have slammed bars or what. My reasoning.. those seats without the front.. and sit bones I have them all pretty much max tilt but on a 70 post that's still pretty much a slight tilt

Don’t measure the back of the saddle! Measure only the part that you are sitting on and forward.

Would it make sense to use the saddle rails as a point or reference to determine the angle, especially with saddles like the SMP?

Good news.... The Aenomaly Switchgrade saddle tilt device is available now.

Most people don't have Pogacar's upper body weight coupled with his power! The more power you put out, the less weight on your hands. If most people tilted their saddle like Pogacars they would quickly have hand/arm/neck/shoulder aches and would be riding round with arms locked out!

I'm at 2-3 degrees nose down... using a 130mm wide saddle.... my bike is very comfortable now...

just an idea, if there are downhill dropper posts in mtb, why not a climbing dropper angle saddle? edit (ok pro talked about it)

Prefer to keep my saddle level, not enough hills in Essex to warrant the change. Any time my saddle has pointed down even a small amount feels like I'm slipping forwards.

With a short saddle, the tilt must be done on the first part of the saddle or the entire one ?

I always set my saddle at an angle. Gives me much more comfort.

My trek seat post is weird. I can’t even adjust saddle angle much so never thought about it.

Never-ever did think about seat angle on a steep grade!

What saddle is Connor using? Looks like some heavily padded Selle Italia saddle.

I noticed pain in my knees when my sattle had an angle of about -0,7 degrees. Need to adjust that now

I tilted my mt bike saddle down after I felt I kept moving forward out of the saddle on steep trail climbs. My road bike is flat though.

There’s a relatively new product called a SwitchGrade that retrofits onto your seatpost. Let’s you change saddle angle down for climbing then back to flat for level ground.

A slight forward angle is correct, safer and good for sliding back and forth.

Level or ever so slightly tilted nose down works for me. Setting saddle height too high is, I believe, common. People are using formulas and believe they need the saddle high for power. But this just makes hip mobility an issue and given one hip is often less mobile than the other, hot spots or knee issues on one side can result on one side. Get the saddle height that works. Nose down never worked for me. Feel my bike is dialed in now on a flatter saddle.

Always perfectly level. I set it with a three foot level. (1m)

This thing with tilting the saddle down, when riding uphill. It doesn't make sense to me. After all, even though the bike will be going up a gradient, your body with respect to the bike does not really change position does it? Or does it? If so, surely not as much as the gradient of the hill?

The saddle settings don't matter that much.. as long as they are UCI illegal 😁

I have zero idea on my power output and don't care either. I would probably waste more power through incorrect tyre pressure. BUT i do care about comfort. And if i do not tilt my saddle down i have too much pressure in "the area" and get sore. Tilt saddle down, no pressure and the ball bearings and gearstick and surrounds are happy. 😉

How long before we have dynamic saddle tilt adjustment based on climb steepness?

Well done Connor, it's a goodun. 👍

I prefer a slight upward angle

Seems like you got to a sane summary in the end, but the focus on saddle angle relative to gradient rather than relative to the contact point triangle seems weird. It's a lot easier for someone with the average cyclist's upper body to hang from the bars slightly on a climb than to do a constant static push-up on the flats...

Go to a bike fitter w/a reliable reputation. Follow their recommendations. Be comfortable. Ignore peer pressure.

I have mine tipped down a bit, wayyyy more comfortable on the crotch and the rear end, it just feels better, especially on long rides.

I always put mine a little bit up on my hardtail mtb because of fork sag.

Just ignore those roadies snobs that judge others on how you setup your bike. Especially those that are not trying to help newbies and are condescending. Everyone’s physique is different and why copy the pros especially when the tilt angle is restricted by UCI rules? Just stop caring and set it up what feels most comfortable to you and the terrain you ride in most often.

Can you do one on crank length. I think everyone ignores that as well.

(OT: Love the Irish colours on your sleeves :-)

The fitter recommended -3 to -6 for a saddle with a "kick" or higher rear section. Would this not result in a much steeper effective negative angle? Or by negative angle was he referring to placing the nose higher?

Thanks a lot!

Not sure we should be angling our saddles JUST because the pros are doing it. They are a different breed with far more flexibility and core strength, as well as a more aggressive position, than most of us regular cyclists who are only pretending to be pro. If it's needed for a proper fit sure but because the pros do it doesn't mean it's right for us mortals.

Are there any benefits of tilting your saddle angle upwards? I find that I have to tilt my saddle up a little to prevent slipping forwards, and to try and ease numbness of my hands.

Riding up hill changes the saddle angle. To the ground yes. But to your position on the bike? No.

Well interesting. There are already dropper seat posts, why not trigger controlled saddle tilt? Dropper posts. Dipper saddles?

I much prefer a saddle angled quite downwards as it hurts my Perinium after a short while. If you have a stronger upper body, does not matter.