Sail Life - Holding tank, head & gimbaled stove - DIY sailboat refit 

You might want to consider running a conduit from the tech room into the vanity cavity (and maybe beyond?) for electrical and whatnot. Much easier to fish wire through a pipe than through holes in cavities. Great video as per usual.

We have a shit tank in our RV. Its just HDPE and you cannot smell anything.

Having spent a good deal of time aboard vessels and using the head, I much prefer that the head be mounted just a bit higher than ones you might use at home. An few centimeters will do it. It adds immeasurably to the comfort when at sea. When the head is low, it is not only uncomfortable to squat, but it is also more difficult to maintain your balance when the boat is moving. I recommend raising the head height just a bit. You have the room. Just my .02.

Would have bet the farm you would have installed a composting head !

You get a like for the Unobtanium 2000 label on your stove gimbal!

I used the exact same hose and it's absolutely smell-free ;-) (after 2 years) and my setup is like option 'A' with the vented tank itself as a anti-siphon - works great and is simple.

No jokes about expensive ho's? Really?😂

Ah, my favorite time of the WEEK!! Sail Life video time!!!

1 Year, 3 Months is also pretty momentous in our family, I retire from work in Year 3 Months and 14 Days and 19 days later we'll have been Married for exactly 46 Years!

Looks good. I have 25 years working on boats ships as an engineer accessibility is key. Seams like your cramping your shower y not mount the tank behind the loo. It will be behind you and more out of the way I personally would give up space behind it to get more space in the shower. And in your previous vid I asked why you didn’t do fillets on your other bulkheads unless you just didn’t show them. Also I like how you go simple systems and items over more complex. Also on your stove the usually make a SS rack to hold pots and pans from sliding around on most of the fishing boats around here Ketchikan Alaska.

Something I have been thinking about regarding Athena is what will be the net change in weight off all the changes. Boat designers pay close attention to weight and center of gravity. When you were marking the waterline it seemed that you are assuming it will be the same as before. This may not be the case. The plywood deck core and bottom frame reinforcement surely added weight. Maybe other changes reduced weight. I would estimate that your waterline will change roughly 1” for every 1500 pounds of weight change. Have you given any consideration to that?

Looks like Unobtanium 2020 to me.

After two weeks of several episodes a day, I’m finally up to date - Love your channel Mads, looking forward to seeing you through the process and not at least, to see you and Ava enjoy the sailing that follows.

Mads, Something to consider when you build the new tank, in the US now there is a big push to regulate holding tanks, and they are starting to require 15 gallons per person at many of the marinas here, and are inspecting tanks for size. It looks like you have more than enough room there to build a tank that will be large enough when the time comes. I ran into an issue with this on my boat as it only had a 20 gallon tank.

Making great progress. More time you spend planning, generally the better the job. I follow KISS, keep it simple stupid but that is not to say the simple is always better. Seems to me this is an area that needs some failure and repair analysis to be sure all the "Oh Crap's", pun intended are covered. Can you fix a head pump motor without the tank draining, can I get at all the hose band clamps, what happens if the tank exit gets plugged or a valve starts to drip. etc. The analysis may not show anything, but forces some critical system thinking. Document what parts or special tools one would need, do I need to order a 50mm or 100mm replacement band clamp and oh yea if I use a swivel, and a 200mm extension with a 10 degree bend I can get at the upper clamp.

Now the big question ...how much trouble did you get into for the “pee every ten minutes “ comment?

Ah, life is slowly returning to normal. The anxiety caused by no episodes over the holidays is finally fading away. Excellent work! As ususal. Bummer with the sink though. Looked like the shower space was very shallow when the tank was put in place?

Option B adds redundancy, in case the tank cloggs, or cracks, or becomes unusable any other way. My vote would be for option B :) Thank you so much for your excellent content :)

Option B all the way, its gonna make it easier if you have to service the tank and still have to "Go".

Option B for the tank allows you to effectively Pee overboard and thus keep more tank capacity for slightly more solid deposits.

Sanding,Check...fiberglassing...Check, back to normal!

Did you ever consider Airhead or Natures head.? No hoses, no valves, no tank and best of all no smell at all. I have had an Airhead now for 4 years living oboard full time. No regrets what so ever, would not ever go back to the "old school" heads. Another big plus is that your´re not dumping all that crap in our waters.

Here's a thought: You've mentioned using the 'dead' space to the right of the vanity, behind the head bulkhead and behind/below the holding tank. Having just rewired my old boat, may I suggest you run some pvc pipe segments in the actual spaces you intend to use? Not the whole run, just pieces in each area. That way you'll see what may interfere with your plan and give you an estimate of how much wire conduit (pipe) you'll need for the job.

Hi there. of course option B is much better - talking from experience, also i would like to suggest you to put rubber stripes at all sides of the holding tank to prevent Scuffs and cracks that may occur due to all the ship's vibrations. beautiful job .

While you got the gimble out; have you thought about weighting the bottom to stabilize it?

Love every DIY episode. I thought you designed the head so any home improvement store would carry your sink. What gives?

Mads, the Unobtanium 2000 looks great! Did your induction stove top require the addition of any cooling fans?

After "Glorious Sanding," you should be AKA "Glass Master" Aloha from Hawaii!

God of Fiberglass work must be Loki.

Usually you want the heavier things on the boat moved as close to the bottom and near the center of gravity as possible, it's supposed to be important for how the boat moves.

In the US it's now (as of 20 Jan 2020) illegal for fiberglass dust to itch. We love our Legislature! So far, I've heard no confirmation of any itchiness from fiberglass workers. ...and I have no idea why they chose 20 January. Aloha dude! Love 'ya, and nā mahalo. Pōmaikaʻi īa ʻolua. :) 🤙

Looks like you've done a lot of thinking on the "head." If the shower area includes any horizontal surfaces be sure to include a slight incline so that water will drain completely and not pool in corners.

PVC will go brittle over time. I build and repair caravans. I’ve seen many PVC lines simply crack and shear. Easy to repair but not when we’ll hidden behind bulkheads. You made a wise decision my friend.

Once Athena is finished, and if it were sold new at the standard Mads is achieving, I wonder how much more than the original price the Warrior would cost? IE, if it was a £80,000 boat new, how much more would it have cost to build it to this extraordinary level of unashamed spiffyness (SL11, where 10 is perfection). The quality of this boat when finished will be higher than just about any boat on the water.

Are you planning to stay in marinas where you cannot dump overboard (option A) or sail offshore where you can (option B)?

Our 20 gallon tank fills up in about a week or so. So we need to find a pumpout that often when cruising inshore. Going for a 3-mile cruise can be a real PITA sometimes as the inlets around here on the Atlantic ICW are often not very close to where the prime cruising grounds are. For example Vero Beach, AKA: Velcro Beach, is a popular Florida East Coast cruising location. It is an all day trip to the sea and the nearest inlet to the Atlantic Ocean at Ft. Pierce. (The Sebastian inlet is quite a bit closer but not accessible to sailboats due to a low bridge across it.) Luckily they do have a mobile pumpout boat that comes right to their moorings -but if you elect to anchor out nearby you will have to come into the fuel dock to get pumped out as the mobile pumpout only services mooring and slip guests of the marina. Hopefully nobody snatches your prime anchor spot while you are away dispensing with the #2 job. I like the idea of the gravity feed. We have yet to have our macerator pump fail in two years of cruising but it is only a matter of time before it succumbs to the crappy job it has. Having a Y-valve before the holding tank is a No-No if you want to cruise the Great Lakes. Big violation if caught with it. The simple fix is to simply remove it temporary and install a short length of PVC pipe instead as a connecting nipple, and cap off the extra hose to the through-hull. When you leave you can reinstall the Y-valve. A simple $5 temporary fix.

One advantage of "A" over "B" is no Y-valve. Those Y valves are a source of odors (higher permeability than your solid gold sanitation hose) and they are a potential source of jams, leaks, and blockages. Extra things that can go wrong are annoying. Extra things that can go wrong involving poop are extra annoying.

I'd choose Option B, but that's just me. 😐 I always like options (i.e. pump to BW tank or direct to seacock), as long as there is no backflow into the BW tank.

Your English has greatly improved

Everybody is regurgitating the same "metal tank is going to rust... eventually". So how long till "eventuallity" kicks in? Also, about what kind of metal tank are we talking? If I were to use an old fuel tank as a holding tank - that would probably outlast my life.

One benefit of hose over pipe; hose will flex with motion and expand/contract with temperature far easier than pipe. Yes, I do have pipe in some locations on my freshwater system, but the bulk of the plumbing is marine grade, use specific flexible tubing.

Hello Mads, Don’t know if you are considering a recessed kick plate for your vanity build , but I would consider adding it into your build. Most aircraft vanities don’t have one and it is very awkward to use the vanity bowl without the recessed kick plate. Not sure of other vessels use this configuration at the bottom of the cabinet. Enjoy your work. Good luck!

Save room for an inline air filter (deodorizer). Trust me.. you will need it. Especially when it's located at the shower. There's always that weird funky nursing home odor that will escape. Nothing is 100% sealed. I work on large vessels and yahts. So yeah.. they really do help. And need to be changed about once a year.

Great progress Mads but is that the height of the fiddles on the cook top? Look a bit low to me but I’m sure you have a spiffy answer/solution you are keeping from us. Andy UK

Regarding the gimbal placement. A safety issue arises when the gimbal is active. If the oven door opens. At best you can spill the dinner or worse, Whatever's on the stove will slide forward due to the balance offset, boiling water, hot grease, etc. Since baking and stovetop cooking may occur simultaneously is there any design that counteracts this? Great videos, one of my favorite channels. Where do you get your energy?

All is coming together fine, getting in tune with the galley is in another dimension, now there's a dance we can all be happy were not dealing with so strapon your thinking cap and dance, dance, dance..(jk) Mads it will all be fine, looking spiffier than new coveralls without paint or glue stains. No comment from me about the PP comment..hee hee !!

!!!!! Caution!!!!! In option A don't leave the sea cock open and think it will drain from the tank slowly. What will happen is you will end up with a tank full of paper and a big clogged. Always have plenty of water in the tank so when the valve is opened it can flow out in a rush. If you don't you better have lots of coat hangers to clean up with. LOL

Hi Mads, you should think a second time about the orientation of your toilet ;-) . A seaworthy toilet should not be oriented athwartships since in most conditions the rolling motion is much heavier than the pitching one. Ideally you can sit on the toilet facing forward and being restrained on both sides. Just imagine using your design on starboard tack even in medium conditions. You are facing downwards (which human beings don't like at all) and need to somehow (?) support yourself against being hurled towards the far away door ! That said, you have done a really admirable job in refitting Athena.

Don't sell your propane stove and cook top. You will quickly determine that the electrical draw of the unit you are installing is untenable.

Great video! How permeable is that hose.... what about the holding tank and all those joints - less is better I think, so my guess would be for option a and this will keep solids and liquids moving through the tank reducing the risk of crusty sediments. This is one of the most addictive series on RU-vid.

In US ports you must have sealed black water tanks and sea cocks emptying overboard are banned. Eventually this may become universal so composting toilets may be a better option.

Make sure the hose from the head to the tanks is easy to access/remove (first hand experience). It will get clogged with buildup if using saltwater to flush, and it will clog quickly with all that peeing! The gravity tank is the way to go. If you can get that upper cleanout to go straight up to the deck clean out, it will make unclogging the drain much easier. A simple batten will work to unclog the bottom of the tank. This is how our Leopard 46 was designed and I was glad to not have to remove the lid on a full tank inside of the boat!

Imagine that holding tank 3/4 full - not lightweight by any means - now put the boat in a rough seaway with maybe some rolling and slamming. Sure the holding tank supports are strong enough?

Just a head's-up - If you intend to bring Athena to the US Great Lakes, no black water discharge is allowed at all, but with the holding tank, you can disable the direct discharge function to become legal.

If you don't like do use lots of coat hangers and rubber gloves always fill your tank 25% with water when you first start out. That way when you flush out the tank things will go smoothly! Nothing will be left behind for later grief.

Wiring should have a raceway with a sealed one through the bathroom instead of the usual rats nest I see in most (if not all) yachts. There are a ton of different designs of regular commercial raceways that would work in a boat. Or you could use a PVC pipe going through the bathroom at least. Something that you could have the option of being able to clean out mold, insects or even Tribbles.

Happy near Year Mads, I noticed you not using your Bosch Shop Vac? Any reason?

Option 1; simple is usually better. Besides, if you want to add on later, better than disconnect. to deduct, it's less mess. For U.S. use, a simple lock on the TH will serve.

If I am thinking about it correctly, the anti-siphon above the head in Option A is to prevent the holding tank from emptying back through the head. The holding tank acts as the anti-siphon for the sea water, but sailboats and healing over can cause unique circumstances between the holding tank and the head if you don't have a siphon break between them.

Come on mate, you love tapping and grinding. You are not fooling us mate.BTW she is looking good.

The more complicated plumbing set up has some advantages. With the toilet set to bypass the holding tank but with the seacock closed the toilet will pump water into the tank outlet - can be usefull for clearing blockages.

In the USA and the Galapagos Islands you are not allowed to have your head dump straight into the water. You have to have a holding tank and a deck pump out.

Will your waterline still be in the same place after all that wonderful stuff you added to the boat? also, yes its evening here and i just closed the hatches on my project sailboat in the front yard and i can absolutely confirm that fiberglass still itches in 2020.

With borders on you induction cooktop, I hope you don't have any pots or pans that are bigger than the cooktop circles.

I’m really worried you are not high enough with the tank. Being 4-5 inches too high is better than not enough.

You are doing it right with all the provisions for "trouble". I am very happy with my DIY composting head. Been using it for a year now, works great.No complexity, and no trough holes at all.

Great planning and execution. I hate marine heads. Having taken apart more than one due to plugs you get an aversion to them. May I ask why you are not installing a maceration head? Till next time.

I know this is a bit late in your build, but have you ever saw a head/sink that you see in jails or prisons? They are all one piece and stainless. Seems like a perfect combo since inmate cells are short on room

Someone is looking forward to the new Avatar movie... ;-)

Os videos sao otimos mas procure mostrar mais e fale menis, obrigado e abraços.

On this side of the pond home toilets have p-traps to hold water and anti-siphoning vent stacks to keep water in the pipe so sewer gases don't come back into the house. Without the water in the sewer line you wasted a lot of money on low permeability hose cause it's going to stink and it won't be coming through the wall of the hose.

you might want to put some rubber between the wood/fiberglass and the plastic tank so it doesn't rub through the tank. may or maynot be an issue but a hole in that tank would not be fun to clean.

Great Job Mads. I have option A and wish I had option B with my Jabsco electric flush because I would be diverting all number ones directly outside and saving room in the holding tank for the nasty number twos. i have no problem adding a little sterile pee into a marina or the ocean. Put in a Y valve marked 1 and 2. Keep up the good explanations.

Why not use copper pipe to plum in the toilet? It's 100% gas tight and you can make bends fit fittings that are impossible to make with a rubber hose. Is copper pipe gonna corrode to fast?

Unobtainium 2000 😂I look forward to your videos every week. Thank you Mads :)

Got to love that Unobtainium 2000 stove/gimbal assembly.

Rigid PVC is definitely less permiable than flexible plus it's been used in houses for decades with no issues.

If it ain't cramped, it ain't plumbing 😉

I think there are some ports that would not allow you to have a direct design.

1 year 3 momths to untie the lines, and how long to tie the knot? 👍👌❤🇨🇦 1% permeability = nose test

Mads, I had the Raritan Elegance in my 27 ft C&C. I loved it. One thing I discovered is that with the macerator the head discharges with the pump very efficiently through the smaller diameter marine hose. I originally installed with large diameter like you are about to install. What I found was that discharge water from the head to the vented loop will need to be run with rinse water to at least clear the portion of hose from head to vented loop. Of course the supplied joker valve generally stops it from back flowing into the head bowl. But the standing sewage discharge should be rinsed with enough water to clear that length of hose. It can add up to a lot of water (fresh or sea water). If you run smaller diameter hose from the toilet up to the vented loop with a hose diameter reducer at the vented loop this standing discharge will be considerably less. You can run the large diameter hose from the output side of the vented loop and the remaking discharge plumbing. After I did this I saved a lot of water and actual performance of the flushing action worked better through the smaller hose. The macerator on the elegance head iWorks very well and I never had any clogging issues. You can see in the instruction that the head has options to run either size discharge hose. This head works so well that I am now installing it on my Hughes 38 that I am in process of rebuild. Your videos are a great help and an inspiration to do projects proper. Thanks Larry Graham

I lived in a camping trailer for the summer. It had a hook up to gravity drain the holding tank. I was told not to leave it open all the time. I was told to let it fill up then drain it. The reason I was given was that if you leave it open then the moisture drains out and the bits of feces left behind begin to harden and collect, eventually leading to a blockage. Might be something to look into?

I had to manually search for your latest video.

Your total spend must surely be in the 100k+ by his point

Pumping turds uphill ? Not a fan ????

Any plans to insulate behind the holding tank?

I can’t get workers like you!!

Unobtanium 2000 :-)

Just a quick thought.. How do you plan to prevent water infiltration from the shower to the service locker? Have you thought of reversing your floorplan? Thanks for the video.

Re gimbal. Make a generous allowance for the weight of pots of food on top of the stove when calculating the best point of balance and for clearance of said pots when it swings. As someone mentioned below, adding mass at the bottom is not out of the question.

What if the actual waterline is not the same as it used to be?

My heart really goes out to you. When I was working on my Catalina Morgan 440 [ Fantasy] up in Bellingham, WA. There were a multitude of marine parts and service shops. So parts and service help were just a short walk or drive away, and if they didn't have it it was overnighted. We are so spoiled here in the US. Take care and keep up the good work.

A tiny bit of advice from a liveaboard. As you’re finalizing the design for your vanity, keep the trash bin in mind. If you can tuck it somewhere that tiny head will be so much more tidy. In our case, each head has two trash bins: one for regular trash and smaller one for toilet tissue. With your gravity tank you really don’t want to flush toilet paper. Trust me.

Why I like my composting head no plumbing

Mads, excellent. - Good timing. I am doing something similar with my holding tank. I had really over-complicated the design for mounting it to the bulkheads and hull and was scratching my head a bit. - I'm now going to copy pretty much exactly what you have done. It looks simple and strong. Also I am going for gravity discharge option A; except I have decided that I won't put in an anti siphon. As you say, not strictly needed. There isn't a hydraulic lock because of the vent - and the chances of the vent tube blocking are probably less than the siphon itself blocking.

If it were me I think I would invest in two or three opening portlights, spending long periods aboard it can really help with keeping things fresh and dry down below and cooler in the hotter climates.

For fibreglass itch I’ve had good luck with an immediate HOT shower followed by a cold shower. The theory is that you sweat the dust out of your pores, wash it away, then the cold water slams your newly cleaned pores shut. Think Finnish Sauna - something maybe you have nearby. Maybe that would be better?

Not that you want to get involved in raw sewage, but it would be nice if you could say a few words about the controversy in the boatbuilding youtube world with Doug Jackson going to pretty great lengths to fake an injury and then shaming everyone who believed him until 12 hours later when he revealed that it was just a "joke."

It seems to me that you still have to make a chaste of strips over the cooking surface with slots in the gimbel where the strips fit, otherwise the pans slide over the top.

as always, excellent work mads! I just taught my wife how to make filits and tab last week... she is turning into a fiberglass fiend! Cheers ~