** Links ** Sail Life website: www.saillifechannel.com/ Sail Life on Patreon: bit.ly/SailLifeOnPatreon Sail Life on Instagram: / saillife_ Sail Life on Facebook: bit.ly/SailLifeOnFacebook Sail Life on Twitter: bit.ly/SailLifeOnTwitter
Hi Mads, Kelly has stuck a little bit of stuff and some close ups of our arch on our next episode that is out tomorrow, as you know our solar arch was a complete copy of your design. We love it. 1200w in the centre then up to 2100w when the slide panels pulled out. This looks okay as we are 50ft. So probably a similar boat to solar arch appearance to your warrior. That extra little bit is the difference. We have been on solar solely since April in the UK. The issue as you say is that second consecutive overcast day! Our set up is so similar 400Ah 24v LiFePo. 2x 3kw inverter chargers. Running 12v/24v/240v. We’ve got a chunky alternator as well. But no genset, no water maker (yet) and no dive compressor. But yes to electric cooking, outboard, fridge freezer etc… I’ve learnt so much about this stuff over the last year it was such a pleasure watching you just now. I can proudly say I understood it all! Love your content as always. Thanks for sharing. Hugh
I think even for normal households we can learn a lot from you guys living remotely and using the sun as much as possible. It could save a lot of money for regular households using the battery smart. Love your content all the way. thanks.
Just a simple 12 volt solar system can pay its self back fairly quickly.. Buying the most economical panel £/watt is most important.. If space and weight is not an issue then possibly house type solar panels.. Otherwise a lighter option is possibly a (or more) 150 watt panel .. Investing in a good (possibly over size it, for more panels) charge controller is key.. battery wise there are many options.. again if weight isn't an issue some massive lead acid batteries like they use in forklift trucks etc .. Or you could use standard car batteries, just never let them get discharged.. Deep cycle Batteries are almost as expensive as Lithium so Lithium wins. An inverter and using 12 volts direct are fairly easy.. If you have too much power.. 'dumping it' to make hot water is an option which also acts as a storage heater. If I was living on land I would a rocket stove storage heater.. About the size of a snooker table including height made of fire brick and rocks.. it has a fire box that burns wood.. fast like a rocket which goes through a labyrinth in the structure and heats it up.. a bucket full of sticks heats it up which lasts for over a day.. and can warm a house.
check thoroughly solar can even be a loss if not figured correctly batteries dont last forever 5 years?run them too low 1 time and ur lookin at problems.u need sun ! arizona good florida is like #8 state so michigan is #24 install 10 year return invest
I love videos like these where you explain how things work together and what it all means. I love the travelogues and the sailing too, but the simple explanations and the logic behind them make me feel like I could review and incorporate your examples into another boat when I get the itch again.
I first started watching you when you exquisitely wired your DC and AC runs, about 6 years back. Been with you since. You are the only channel that explains boat electrics well, at least the only one I understand. My mileage does in fact vary, but because of you, I understand why. Thank you
Great video as always, "Cadoha sailing" use solar panels that fold up, they have on deck and pull up the mast when at anchor. That maybe be an option if you want extra solar.
I love your DIY and this geeky explanations about your electrical installation. I believe you have become a really useful reference and entertainment for many of us. Many thanks.
Firstly....great video this week, I loved it. 👏 Some time ago I was learning how to create training packages for teachers to deliver training. It is a real art and a very clever person to take a somewhat complex subject and write it down then deliver that message clearly so everyone can follow and understand. Your explanation and delivery on this topic makes you a true genius. Well done.🤗
Instead of carrying a spare charger, connect half the loads to each. They'll be running cooler, which makes them last longer, and in the event of a failure you can shift the loads. Perhaps with a simple battery combiner switch (1/2/both) so it is all set to go?
EXCELLENT info for Everyone, including off-grid landlubbers. In Grenada off Calivigny Island our wind generator started over-revving at 04:00 before dawn and the controller started lightly smoking. Our many smoke detectors helped wake us up. How many smoke detectors do you have? Hopefully at LEAST three. Cheap insurance. We admire you both sooo much.
We have 4 440w panels and 560ah @12v of LifePO4 for our off-grid cabin. We do very little inverting, as it's a long weekend getaway place in the foothills of CA Sierra Nevada Mtns and only about 45mins from home. We do have a 2Kw inverter and a 6.5Kw gas/propane genset for the rare stretches when we have prolonged cloudy days in the winter. We have contemplated adding a Mini-split for HVAC as our summers are triple digits yet low humidity for months, luckily cooling at night. I'm working on adding a semi-smart dump load into an electric water heater as we grossly over-produce solar in the Spring, Summer, and Fall given our light loads.
300w solar & LiFePo4 does me single handed living on the hook with a kayak & some oars! And a raspberry pi/signalk to track everything. Great thing about cruising is both boats are right! No point judging or comparing, nice setup Mads! Love my inverter for power tools & compressor for hukkah diving on the hull. 😎
We also have an e-propulsion but we got on optional extra 12v charger. It takes longer to charge it but doesn’t require the inverter. We thought it was expensive at €120 for what it is but the convenience is worth it. SV Aragorn - Dublin
Still so glad I found your channel. Inherited two kids in the fall of 2019 has put a damper on our life aboard a boat but they’re still great and I still enjoy your channel. I hope you get to visit like Garry soon. Check out Sandusky in Port Clinton that’s great I think you enjoy it.
Very interesting Mads👍!! For my just new sailboat&home I still think about not a complete integrated system people like you clearly like😉 but some independent circuits/systems of users and power(banks or accu's). So when something breaks not the complete system gets involved and I quickly know where the problem is. Of course the independent circuits/systems or parts of it can support the other ones to get the needed backups (1 is none). I want to exit gas cooking and go electric..but this video gave me some thoughts to reconsider. Thanks again..and following seas..Ronald (Den Helder..Netherlands)
Wow Mads - you guys use a ton of power. We lived aboard our 38ft cat with 400 watts of solar and never went low on our 400AH (12volt) batteries. In summer the solar controller would be stopping charge into the batteries by 10am. But we didn't have a big freezer (I got rid of it now) and certainly didn"t do watermaker and induction cooking. That being said - I wonder about the efficacy of induction cooking if it requires more fuel/diesel anyway. But for us on a cat, gas is great. It lasts a really long time and we have lots of draining lockers and even an easy route from lockers to stove, so I don't think induction would be a positive in any way. I am a little amazed at how much guff people have nowadays - when we first went cruising in 1992, I was happy we could source a single 40 watt solar panel - it kept our 31ft tri charged for two years liveaboard. So all we tend to do is hunt power and keep putting stuff on. But I am a little proud that we have reduced consumption over our current boats 23 year lifetime. I have only just installed a proper DC monitor with shunt so can't give numbers but I would always urge people to consider getting by with less, because less demand is usually less hassle. I know one saying is "BIgger is better" but I would counter with "Less is more". Cheers Phil
Mads is close to the extreme edge of going almost all electric. Like you, I am at the other end on a simple 34ft boat that cost about the same as his electric setup (and that budget did not include install). I have a 330W solar panel above the bimini that keeps four Group24 batteries happy for the house, and two older 100W panels on the lifelines, each with its own controller as they inevitably have separate shading regimes, keeping the Group27 engine battery happy. I need to complete one more upgrade, adding a shunt with battery monitor like you, but for now I have a simple voltmeter that I check periodically to make sure all is well. But then I use a gas outboard, no watermaker, no washing machine, cook with gas, have no freezer, just a little Engel fridge, and few other electric demands.
A good overview of sailboat electrical in a ‘high consumption scenario’. From the video, I draw the conclusion that you do have to do a bit of planning on how you use the more discretionary consumers and how to use them. A couple of examples - if your washing machine has a rated 9kg load capacity then only run the washer with 9Kg of clothes (better use of power and water). Run the water maker on passage only when the engine is running. If you are going to use the oven - do some batch baking - rather than just one dish. I take it the absence of a mention about the Panda is evidence of absence.😉 Good vid Mads.😀👍⛵️
Wearing the "Super Sander" shirt, but no "Oh glorious sanding". You should sell those in your merch store,😜. For that extra power, isn't there a device you could put over the side while at anchor to take advantage of the tidal currents? There's allot of potential energy there that could be used with the right tech. Great video, allot to think about. Keep up the great work. Wouldn't be Sunday without you two.
Yes, using watts is far easier than using using amps on the long run. So much easier. Yeah running AC can cost a ton. I only need it to sleep at times. You are doing amazingly well with your usage and your solar input. Cutting back AC to only the sleeping cabin vs the entire boat can save a ton. But when parties aboard happen then,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Having solar on a boat is always going to have issues with shading and panel angles. The panel angles would be difficult to address but the shading issue could be reduced by using micro inverters or because you are feeding into batteries rather than the grid you would need multiple small solar charge controllers. One for each panel or pair of panels. This would reduce the impact of a charge controller failing. But most of all it greatly reduces the impact of shading. When multiple panels are connected in a string any shading of one panel reduces the output of all panels in the string, even the panels that are still in full sun. With each panel having it's own charge controller if one panel is shaded then only that panel has a reduced output, all other panels will output according to how much sun they are each receiving. This would allow you to add panels in various locations that may be more often affected by shading without negatively affecting the overall output. For example, if you had panels on the cabin top and the sail shaded one side of the cabin top, if a charge controller per panel were used, then the panels on the unshaded side of the cabin top would be outputting full power. Having many charge controllers would likely be more expensive but as each charge controller would be a much smaller device, it only needs to be big enough to handle the output of a single solar panel. So I wouldn't expect it to be ridiculously more expensive that a couple of massive charge controllers.
Have you considered adding CIGS panels on deck? They can be folded into creases and tolerate shading reasonably well with internal bypass diodes for the parts covered by shade.
Interesting your comments on the electric outboard. As much as I wish they were practical, it seems they're just not there yet. I hate my noisy 2-stroke outboard, but it starts first pull, is perfectly reliable, has a long run time on 20 litres of fuel, and has enough power to plane my 3.4 meter dinghy with 4 people in it. On Catamaran Sayonara, we lived the last several years with 1300w of solar, and a similar amount of battery (at 12 volt). I summer, in places like Grenada it was tons of daily power. In the winter, at the top of the Caribbean it was a bit touch and go. Re: wind turbine, in reality, they don't produce enough to bother with. We have a very high quality D400, and would have deleted it years ago if it weren't for the fact that its mounting pole makes such an excellent grab point for dismounting the dinghy.
@12:45 One of many important takeaways in this episode - that an electric outboard should be considered a supplement. Technology still appears to be new as a viable option for blue water cruising - in terms of expense , untested reliability , sourcing parts . Even a year ago, #GoneWiththeWynns tested several electric dinghies in their episode "Testing The 5 Best Electric Boat Motors" where the jury is still out .
i know this is a fringe thing but i went with a propane outboard. at least in the us the fuel is crazy cheap, it never goes bad, doesnt gum up the engine (the oil doesnt even change colors from when you first put it in), and most importantly its relatively safe to store. we own two and both have been rock solid reliable.
@@pezpengy9308 The big issue with Propane as an engine fuel, is it being totally lacking in essential Lubricant for upper Cylinder, rings, Valves and such which is why most Propa e setups for engines are dual Fuel, and you must switch to Gasoline regularly to get that Fuel Lubrication working. Most Vehicle Propane refueling stations seem to have already closed down around Bristol and the County of Somerset here in Britain. Could really use a seperate auto lube tank like we used to have in two stroke Motorbikes I suppose, not that difficult a fix tbh. Best Wishes andFairWinds. Bob 👍⛵️✨️✨️✨️
Sounds like the most viable option within the scope of practical might be to increase reserve capacity by something like 5-10kw. Also maybe longer panels that are more efficient and/or extend a little more aft. Maybe adding something like 2 flexible panels on top of the Bimini would also help even if occasional shading might occur.
I'm with you on Wind Generators. My first boat, put on 3, 80 watt solar panels and Wind 403 generator. Money spent on the wind generator would have produced way more power as a 4th Solar panel. Did see the 403, put our 48 amps just before it jettisoned all it's blades in a 85mph gust. The electric break , Historis? had failed early in the storm.
IMHO, Wind generators are oversold. A wind generator needs a lot of wind to create a lot of watts. The reason is that if one double the wind speed, the wind energy becomes 4 times, so if one has a wind generator who performs 100% at 16 kn wind, 4 kn wind will give one 1/16 energy.
Long time viewer, first comment. Thanks for many great episodes. This was particularly good info on energy use at anchor 🙂 My BEng thisis was on vertical axis windturbines for yachts. Some colleauges looked at decarbonisation of yachts more generally, vibration was a huge issue. However, i had always thought you could just tie up the rotor when you dont need to generate power, its fairly noisy when its windy anyway. I will agree that its hard to fit a particularly large turbine on a yacht, hence lower power output. However, i cant see any other means of staying at anchor at northen lattitudes without burning deisel or having extremely large batteries. Turbine variants with less noisy/vibration could be made but the market is small... Hydrogens a long way off.... Superwind had a particularly well made looking HAWT with an automatic pitch control mechanism that looked well 'spiffy' 🤷🏽♂️ Ps patrion when i get a graduate job 👌🏽
Love your setup. Shame you didn't come to see us for that project ))) I believe you are local to us. If you ever happen to decide to redesign your arch, come to see us and we will declutter your stern with one of our Solar Arches. Only the best quality workmanship and will do a good price for you. Good Luck and keep that content coming. Love watching it. Watched your Starlink episode a while ago.
Mads great video, lots of good info. have you ever thought about adding 2 more solar panels to the solar arch that slid aft out of the arch. Just like the panels you have now that go out to the sides it would give you a little more solar input. not sure on much bang for the buck it would be for the work to add. just a thought. As always thanks for the hard work on these videos
Hi Mats, Nice informative video, one remark anout your setup, I see that you are still using a 12volt battery for nav and other stuf, if you replace this with a LFP battery you would have a hugh efficiency improvement, a leadacid expect to be trickle charged constantly. An other way to improve efficiency is to put some extra insaulation on the freezer, I have used thin Vaccuum Insulation Panels from panasonic, about 1 cm thickness but a very high insulation value. I have used these vip panels in double layers an the effect was considerably. Also put an desent airtight sealant on the freeze lid. The panasonic panels can be bought from digikey in US.
great video -good insight/balancing act every day u do have great energy comforts and if u really need power fire the gen set. whats ur idea to make it more better? -more batteries?$$ what does a/c pull in (P) watts?
The water maker we have is 12V and uses 100-120W/h. Is a Schenker Zen30. Our outboard is the same as yours, we use it as a primary. I do not see any reason for not to be so. I know there are many people that like speed, noise, and greasy hands. To choose products is not easy, and very personal.
Someone posted a recent vid about copying your slide out solar panels. Those are a good innovation. How about one more layer of them to slide out either over the cockpit or to the stern? Or, foldout portable ones as shown by Uma? Another 400 watts or so shouldn't be too difficult to design. Thanks for this info.
I loved todays video. Could you go into each system in more detail? Why not have a 48 V inverter charger with a 48 V alternator to charge the lithium batteries?
You have done a masterful job planning and installing you electrical systems. Now that you are entering the thunderstorm alley, have you considered a lightning strike? The word catastrophic comes to mind!
Very interesting and nice details. Your system is very well thought out. I question what you estimate the life span of those batteries with them cycling down every day.
A bit nerdy but .. I found a few arduino projects that emulate a hid-ups, which is the usb standard for them so it works across most platforms. It seems to me that something that reads the charge off your batteries and presents it to the computer as a UPS, would let your OS handle the low-battery panic shutdown natively. (This works really well on macs, because their UPS shutdown borrows heavily from their laptop battery management)
Hi Mads, Thanks for the explanation! What I missed is a breakdown of your usage: that would help in determining whether you can save power instead of having to add solar.. My house is off-grid, and i power my home plus three studios with about 2000 Wp of solar. My total usage is on average 4.5 kWh per day for 8 persons, which includes 4 fridges, one freezer, washing machine, tv, pump for waterpressure etc. I do cook on gas though... but still it would be interesting to know why you need 5+ kWh per day for just 2 persons? Greetings from Crete!
This video is EXACTLY the topic I submitted to your DIY viewers help project for my boat! Have you guys chosen the DIY projects to do? Hoping you here back.
Another great episode very informative, although a bit depressing for me today as I should have been on a yacht today about to start my day skipper course, but unfortunately the dinosaur squeezings converter broke and the course got cancelled :( You look to have a great system that nearly meets your needs in a modern world of electronics. Could you add another layer on your solar arch that pushed out the back or would that be to heavy or is there other stuff in the way? Just an idea probably wouldn't work?
Wow, after forking over that much for the Panda Generator, I would be upset with their customer support as well!! Great video, missed Eva's smiling face though.
Started with your channel at the end days of Oblix. Enjoyed every video since the resurrection of Athena. Do you have room for more lithium battery storage (to double your storage capacity?) to take more advantage of your solar panel capacity?
More solar would be good to compensate somewhat for the overcast days along with another 200AH 24V battery...only real issue is the cost and perhaps room for the extra solar panel or two.
Thanks Mads. Great video!!! I know this was a "dummed" down talk but I actually understood all of it. I've been using bestween 1 and 3 solar panels for over 10 years. It's become pretty intuitive. If I'm at 100% SOC during the day, I plug in my laptop, phone, tablet, etc. The one thing you might want to consider is doing more grilling out and getting a Jet Boil to do some cooking - to avoid using the AC stove. Thanks again.
Thank you so much for talking in watts instead of amps, which really annoys me when they don't quote the volts so you have no idea of the actual consumption.
Hey, awesome set up! Been following since the beginning of Athena. Have you thought of running your PC directly on DC? I doubt it would be beyond 24 volts. I just installed a 12 volt PC into my race car. All I had to do was cut the included adapter and add a connector.
Mads, to contribute to eh discussion I will add some suggestions: - Today, going to a 48v system would probably be cheaper over all, 48v is the "default" for on shore off grid systems so the number of offerings for chargers/inverters/battery packs, etc is great. and they don't come with the "marine tax". - Also, a 48v alternator will give you doble the power for the same current, so, basically the same size alternator. If you have a battery pack big enough to absorb that power, that cuts the engine hours in half.... - Batteries are still on the expensive side, but coming down fast, so if budget/space permits, "over battery", a battery pack that can handle 2-3 days of typical use will give tremendous flexibility with the charging schedule, and if space for solar panels is limited, suck up every little bit of energy when the sun finally shows up.
For those like me that love AirCon, a combination for (very) high output alternators and a big battery pack means that you can run you AC every night with only 1-2h of engine time per day to recharge. Even less depending on the system. This is huge compared to running a generator all night long.
and for the DIY community, quite a few models of hybrid cars come with very powerful 48v alternators, I'm talking 10+ kw (nominal power) alternators, for a very resonable price, they normally are PWM controlled, so very easy to regulate voltage/output.
Have you taken a look at the Integrel system, as an alternative or addition to standalone generator and high output alternator? There a few good youtube videos of Nigel Calder explaining it. Other than this system, the Beta Marine Hybrid is quite interesting too, allowing the additional possibility to drive the prop using electric only.
I know Mads you tech nerd, but all that tech, tends to have a tendency to fail and usually when you least expect and at the darnedest times, and few, can repair all the tech stuff on the go. Analog still has its place at sea. Pray you never get a lightning strike half way to nowhere. All those wires could put on quite the light show, and a ton of toxic smoke. Plus aesthetically all those panels that you need to drive all that tech, is making Athena more solar farm than sailboat.
Been watching and not really commenting...I don't do volts,watts amps. Like sanding.. building... tourist trail stuff.... Will still watch weekly, but if you mention electric again!!...odd life next watch 🤣🤣
This reminds me why I'd never go total electric (even with induction burners) on a stove and oven, nor go electric outboard only over a gas powered outboard.
1) Liquid fuel storage is VERY efficient in Wh/kg and Wh/Euro. I understand your reluctance towards high dependency of diesel fuel - BUT have you considered adding a fuel cell to your system (e.g. from EFOY) using e-Methanol as a steady weather/sun-independent additional power source, since you dislike wind turbines? E-methanol is maybe on the brink of a break-through (see eg. "Laura Maersk" = an innovation within container shipping) 2) Why charge your EPropulsion battery at night? Why not at solar cell peak hours or the afternoon, when the battery bank is full anyway?
It seemed from your calculations that a adding a bit more (20-30% perhaps) to your battery bank would be the by far most cost-efficient solution. Given that you *on average* gets a little bit more from solar than you consume, that would make more of that energy available.
Mads, interesting video. You may want to consider that diesel engines operate more efficiently and have less wear if operated at constant and higher rpm so it might be better to bring up the idle speed when running engine just for the generator. This is why farm tractors have manual throttles that are generally set at high rpm and use gears to control tractor speed.
Diesel Engines love Working under Load, so need to be up the Torque Curve some, which with Clean Oil, Fuel, and Air, means they are happy efficient clean engines internally which is why my Next Sailboat is going to have a Torque optimised Flexofold Prop. Frankly, Mads letting the Lifepo4 Battery Charge Capacity bet discharged so Low, is seriously shortening their Service Life. ,eating them get below 50% Capacity, according to a Chinese Lifepo4 batteries anufacturer hammers down the a ailable Rexharge Cycles, and I've re e try had it confirmed, that just like with Lithium battery Mobile Phones the Battery Life is extended if they have the recharge level restricted to 85% , plus of Course Rapid hanging Messes up their Service Life as well, which is why I have decided to stick with High Quality AGM Batteries for the Main Bank, and keep them above 80% Capacity for maximum Service Life with a 2nd Bank of 600 ah of Lifepo4 Batteries to play with, and see if I can get them to last for Over 10 years. With the Way most Lifepo4 Buyers are mistreating their Batteries, sadly it looks like those will be lucky to get a 5 year Service Life Out of them. Best Wishes. Bob. 🤔⛵️✨️✨️✨️
@@brownnoise357 For the LFP batteries, keep them between 20 and 80%, maybe once a month at 100% to keep the BMS calibrated. With that usage pattern, I'd expect about 5000 cycles, which should be around 15-20 years. (Tesla recommends charging your LFP battery routinely to 100% but I'm not sure if that is too advisable).
My advise double the size of the 24v bank and upgrade the 12v to lithium! I have 3X200AhX24v and 3X200AhX12v +1X1ooAhX12v for windlass and 3X200Ah led. All fed by 3X150wX12v in parralel and 3X150w in series for 24v
I'm surprised you use as much electricity as you do. I also have 1600W of solar and the same 7.2kw of lithium battery on my 47' cat. We have a gas stove and oven, but we run our 12v cabin AC every night. The water heater is set to come on automatically when the battery is just below absorbtion voltage. We rarely have the battery go below 45%.
Maybe some flexible solar panels could provide the additional watts you need. Something you could stow when not needed and placed out on deck with a few discreet plugs wired into the charging system.
The flex panels do not perform quote as well as their specs say. Without moving air cooling them from below they operate at MUCH higher temps which degrades their performance greatly in producing power. They also have a tendency not to last nearly as long as the rigid panels.
Question: Your current solar panels slide out to the left and right - sorry, port and starboard. How about having two more panels that slide out to the rear? Sorry - I mean slide out astern. Fiddly process to make that work of course, particularly with the dinghy rig etc - but I've never seen /fiddly work/ stop you.
Hi Mads, Thanks for all of your content over the years! There is a lot of news/press a Li battery fires be it scooters to cars. I am curious about how you have mitigated this risk and if you have a contingency beyond the “ditch bag” and what that is?
Lithium batteries on boats are not the same chemistry as lithium batteries for scooters etc. Chemistry for scooters/cars/land stuff is lithium cobalt, for boats it's lithium iron phosphate. The former is very energy dense, and excitable, while the latter is less energy dense and less inclined to burst into flames (though it can bulge and break containment if overcharged).
