streamed Feb. 5, 2021 Could you please listen to the words instead of making up your own? Follow Sajam on Twitter & Twitch: / sajam / sajam / discord Editing/Thumbnail by Magic Moste: / magicmoste #FGC
DOnt forget Goku caused his own death the 2nd time due to his stupidity. Giving Cell a senzu bean. Cell had his "friends" beaten damn near close to death by Cell Jrs
@@Chaoskae He also teleported Cell to King Kai's planet before he blew up. He could've taken Cell anywhere, but he had to kill King Kai and his crew too.
@@steveharveyoswald6248 Instant Transmission needs an energy source to lock on to though. He can't teleport into some place devoid of life. Someone will die regardless.
Like most things in life, learning fighting games is not complex, but it IS difficult. Almost anything you want to improve at in life has a simple defined way to improve at, but that doesn't make it any easier. Fighting game content to teach new players make it less complex, but you still gotta go through the difficulty of learning.
“Lol nah bro, fighting games are harder than any other competitive game genre. Learning how to play with and against 153 champions in League was WAY easier than throwing my first fireball!” -People who diss fighting games, probably
People don't realize they are bad at other competitive games they play. Learned that lesson when I went from grinding a shooter to trying to be competitive in a shooter.
They think because they are plat in a shooter game that it's easy, even though there are so many tiers of players better than you. Like you could potentially come up against a guy you LITERALLY cannot kill, he's so much better than you, and with games with low TTK that seems like it'd be impossible, but it is. I played R6S against a streamer (former pro) once and he literally wiped out my team twice by himself. The rest of his team was our level but because we were playing at like 6:00 am he was put into my game and he literally took 3 people peeking at the same time to kill. The game was close, funnily enough because the rest of his team was definitely scaled worse than my team to compensate but in fighting game terms it's like as if we needed 3 players on the screen to beat 1 guy. Skill is such a hard thing to quantify, but at the end of the day if you're bad at fighting games, there are probably about a million other people just as bad as you. Now if the game is underpopulated, that can be an issue ... that said, playing against better players DOES make you better FASTER. Eventually you will learn to not get tagged by their stuff and once you are able to beat 1 person who's really good, you'll be able to beat others slightly worse than him even though they may have different habits and such.
@@GriFFonRec4 I actually think underpopulation on games is one of the main factors that make fighting games less approachable than other, more popular genres. A lot of fighting games usually have less players on average than most popular shooters, so the chances of you running into someone who will utterly dominate you are higher.
@@Masque1419 I think that it's good for the players tho, you either learn or get toss aside and you have good people to play with from the get go, I have no idea how high I must be in SFV before finding someone good, I got bored before finding out
@@Masque1419 It is ironic that many members of the shooter community (e.g. call of duty) have recently started a vendetta against "sbmm" (skill based match making) because it prevents high skilled players from getting matches against teams of low skilled players, when here in the FGC we are forced to fight players much higher skilled due to underpopulation, and we value it as a learning experience. Our communities have a similar path to "getting good" but it seems they would prefer the path of beating up on scrubs while we in the FGC value losing to skilled players and learning from your losses.
@@kuzunohaxiv7912 I absolutely agree, but that mindset of "okay, I'm getting beaten up, what can I learn from this" isn't always the mindset a new FG player is going to have. Most people who just pick up a fighting game for fun don't really want to get their asses kicked, and if their game doesn't have a big playerbase of new players, they're going to have a harder time enjoying the game.
Man the Transition from Learning Fighting games is hard into Yakuza is fucking Hilarious to me! Newcomer: "I cant play Ryu for shit, welp gonna go head out to the bar and sing some Baka Mitai." LMAO
To be fair, if you mentioned a Virtua Fighter character in this situation, it would totally be possible and plausible for someone playing any of the recent Yakuza games to have done this exact thing. (Context: SEGA Arcade is a feature location in every game, where players can play arcade ports of older SEGA titles such as Virtua Fighter)
Silly people, sajam is not a yakuza player he is obviously a dark souls exclusive streamer also how come people dont know this "sajam dude" is just brian F on a different channel wtf
Some of the most entertaining content from the fgc community is the stuff where the characters interact and often it's not even fighting games. Definitely would love to see more of Brian f and others on this channel, like they could both play some other game simultaneously on stream while chatting, like when Sajam played Jump King with vicious.
Sajam is composed well beyond his years. I would claw my eyes out at the "why does it matter, the games are great" bait and switch. Holy shit, you talk for like ten minutes about the most simple concept in the world and the guy goes "yeah, but..." and inserts some context that was never there.I don't know how you do it, but props to you and I will definitely never stream in my life lol
Honestly, I think people mistake Knowledge/Experience for arrogance. If someone fully understands a subject, they'll talk about all the difficult concepts with ease, which may seem like arrogance, but it's not. Lot's of pro gamers are always bombarded with stuff like that, people saying their being arrogant by saying that "getting good is easy", when they just said something like "The path to getting better is very clear" or something like that.
@@CarbonRollerCaco Well.. it's kinda of implied that it is hard right? I mean, no one looks at a professional soccer player that's saying that to get to his level he just kept training, thinking "Oh so he's saying that going pro is easy".
Most of the times, the answers will be simple. To get better, you just need to keep training, keep trying to find out what you need to do in order to win more. Keep improving. There's no other way. The path is clear. You just need to endure it and be smart about how to do your training. If people say that answer is too simple, they're either trying to find out some "secret tech" to get better faster(which doesnt exist) or they're struggling with an specific concept in a fighting game and should be asking more specific questions.
Learning to be good at anything isn't easy these people just want to buy a game and top an event the next day. Anyone whos good at anything has put in the time and effort to be good.
I think the disconnect is that you do a lot of work to simplify things for new players. Like telling them to pick whoever they want, telling them they don't need to worry about frame data at the beginning, and telling them they should just focus on experimenting and having fun. This leads people to think that you're acting as if the games are easy and you don't have tons to think about, when in reality its the opposite. A lot of your content tries to make fighting games as approachable as possible for people, specifically because you know how hard they are.
I still don't find the correlation of things you want to like in a fighting game (play whatever char you want, not caring about frame data, just dicking around) to making it out that the game is 'easier' that way. Hell everyone has different ways of disseminating information and applying it in the game. Then factor in how fast an individual adapts to their newfound situations. The only thing that changes is at the very least is if you play the game your way to start which leads to being fun, then its easier to look past the obvious factors like trying to quantify skill/rank/hours spent/losses to victories. And focus more on the process of getting to know the game more.
@@t4d0W People are retarded. There's always going to be a significant amount of people that bounce off because they are not into competition. Then a certain amount of those people who are bitter or angry about it will go on the internet and take it out on people who are into fighting games. It happens all the time, you can see it in Sajam's comments quite often.
If you've never seen someone play an FPS for the first time, just know that its painful to watch. Fighting games aren't harder to learn than any other game, they're just unlike any other game. People often think its more difficult because they forget how hard it is to learn something for the first time.
I think the misconception comes from your "how to learn a character" vids, where you tell people that your step-by-step process is simple. They just hear the soundbyte as "it's simple" and are watching you teach them how to learn. It's taking things you say in one context and applying it to something different where it doesn't apply. But anyway. Learning anything worth learning is hard
I actually also undestood that you said that Fighting games were easy to learn when I watched the video and I felt like shit because I never learned. Good to know I was wrong lol
I tried them and thought the battles were very monotonous and boring. It's a shame since I liked every other aspect which is why I'm excited to play Like a Dragon at some point.
for casual new players, fighting games are a more unwelcoming experience than team games because they don't have a buffer wall of other players to carry the load for them and many people don't like to be held accountable when they fail. ultimately regardless of the genre, the people complaining that the games are "too hard to learn" arn't actually trying to learn, they are just wanting to plug and play.
@@malcovich_games mindset. Just playing the game is a part of the learning process but you have to recognize it as such. When a new player in a fighting game gets to the point where they are faced with an obstacle that another player presents in the form of mixup or neutral strategies or otherwise that is where the mindset comes into play. If that player stops, looks at it and thinks to themselves "how do I deal with this" and then makes an effort to figure that out they will begin to actually improve. If they look at it and just go "this is bullshit" the learning process has stopped.
@@Dokainin Well who says a MOBA or Rocket League player isn't gonna quit for the same reason? Sure they can blame it on their teammates, but when they just get killed in lane repeatedly or never touch the ball they might find the game unfun. I agree it's a mentality problem though. Some people just don't find fun in a game unless they win.
@@malcovich_games the biggest difference is that in team games you will hit that barrier that forces you to learn later than in solo competitive games (with likely exceptions). It is 100% still there though for sure. And personally I think team games are harder to learn competitively because of the team aspect of communication, coordination and strategy but that is also a mindset thing. Smite for example being the most recent moba that I have played felt like a completely different game once I reached the level cap (which exists solely for new players to have an extra buffer) and started getting matched against people who new what they were doing... and that was after 30-40ish hours of just messing around.
Most players aren't going to be competitive. So someone having a medium difficulty learning some other game casually and a hard time learning a fighting game casually, means the fighting game was harder for them to learn
It's just the way the human brain works. By saying they 'aren't any harder than other competitive games,' the implication in the minds of people is that it is easier than what they think it is. Then they boil that down to 'Sajam said it was easy.' If you say they are 'just as difficult as other competitive games,' then people don't see that implicit 'easier than.' TLDR: English Sucks
DOS2 has this feature bloat thing that a lot of WRPGs have, where there are a bunch of complicated skill and class systems compounded with a crafting system no one understands and tons of loot to collect and a complex combat system (I actually like that one) and a big sprawling world and tons of side-content and choices to make and also the ability to talk to animals that is super easy to miss and gives its own questlines and stuff like that. It's one of those games where it's easy to find yourself not knowing what to do and there's a lot of missable content. It's a game I enjoy but one I easily get overwhelmed by to the point where it's less fun without a defined direction to go
@@Ganmorg yeah I was intrigued by all the customization, but even early on I felt like everything I was doing was wrong. I might just find a guide and give it another chance sometime.
Yakuza 7, the game that came out like 3 months ago absolutely recycles animations that were used in the first game way back on the PS2. It's not even up for debate whether or not those games use dated animations. That being said, I fucking love those games and I think those janky old animations just add to the charm.
Honestly, your videos taught me to keep an open mind and come to the realisation that losing is key to learning and learning isn't easy. Based my twitch channel around that concept and it's just me learning. Fuck these trolls
yakuza is an iterative franchise so it has asset reuse all over the place. it's one of the corners they can cut that allows them to pack in more content than they would otherwise, like how story exposition is mostly done through in-game models standing around and lip flapping at each other. they save time/money by not fully animating everything, but it also adds to the "old" vibe people get.
its also just japanese game design, they are kinda old school in various ways some bad and some good. also more stylized vs western AAA obsession with realism which you could see as being old since its not as high fidelity or whatever
I never thought about it but he is right about the animations, in particular when running around do seem old. I don't get that feeling from 7 though, and I don't think the other Dragon Engine games do either but it's been a while since I've played them. Turns out PS3 games are old.
"Nah you don't get it sajam, I can learn most FPS games in a short amount of time (never mind that I've been playing FPS games for years and years), but I can't learn fighting games in the same amount of time when I've never touched a fighting game before. Since you said that fighting games are as easy to learn as FPS games you must clearly be lying or an idiot, because my current frame of reference is the only one that matters."
Yakuza games really don't look old though, unless your only frame of reference are AAA games with a trillion man hours put into them to make sure a horse sways as realistically as possible or whatever.
It's funny that these people are calling this man elitist when they're the ones assuming all other competitive game genres are easy compared to fighting games. Like, do they not see how jumping to that conclusion looks based on what was actually said?
Sajam I understand, I will say in the last 5 years it's been easier to pick up. Some people just wanna be the guy on the explosive clip without losing. That's just not how this works. I feel if people temper their expectations and grow ok with losing, that's when they can ascend.
Path of Exile never really stops being confusing no matter how long you play it, you just learn to accept and appreciate it as a feature of the game. Timeless Jewels are probably the best example of this - they're items that have three incomprehensible lines of text and even if you know what the text means, it's not possible to figure out what one of them does until you put it into your passive tree. (In addition to being more than a thousand nodes, the passive tree is also customizable.) Here's the description of a Timeless Jewel that you might find: Bathed in the blood of 7518 sacrificed in the name of Xibaqua Passives in radius are Conquered by the Vaal Historic
Three brand new games have come out (0, 6 and 7), a spin off (Judgment), 2 full remakes (not just remasters, full remakes, Kiwami 1 and 2) and then 3 remasters (3, 4 and 5 remastered). That being said, I never felt like the new games looked old personally, but at that point, opinions.
Taking "learning fighting games isn't any harder than other competitive games" and turning it into "learning fighting games is easy" really just shows the biases against other games those people have.
Yakuza is an AA game that reuses assets in pretty smart ways to provide a better experience than some AAA games but yeah lots of dialogue interactions use old ass animations But the fighting gameplay of all of them, despite having some 5+ years old assets for some move sets, tends to be pretty great/accurate for martial arts recreation and like a fighting game watered down into an action RPG with the juggle/bounce combos etc Probably because the first few games that made the foundation of the series combat was designed by a Virtua Fighter developer lol
I think people people confuse "simple" and "easy". Picking a character you like, learning a few BnBs then grinding it out online is simple but not easy.
The people who want to learn will. I did and i took plenty of Ls ( and sone Ws) to get there. Whatever Sajam says wont make any difference to anyone EXCEPT the folks who listen to and apply and build on what Saham says
5:02 I had the opposite, after years of playing shooters, mobas, I never even got to any decent rank. Then I picked up Xrd and I managed to get pretty good at it
League is really hard to get to a basic level where you can actually play the game decently I think it took me at least a year or two before i played with any intentionality but it took me over 4 years of playing before i got any idea of what i was actually doing And 6 years before i got any good But I quit since because i kind of hate the game now
Went from SF4, to Tekken Tag 2, to Smash Ultimate currently. I've carried the fundamentals of spacing, timing, baiting, comboing, and learning and adapting from each. I think my advantage is I ignore the spoiled dummies that grind online and get mad cuz of any XYZ excuse.
I think people get confused about other games being easier to learn. Let's take COD for example. If I have been playing COD since big red one back on the old PlayStation, I have been playing COD for 10 years or more so whenever a new game comes out I've already been playing a game where aiming is necessary to be decent. However if a COD player picks up a fighting game for the first time, its an entirely different experience and you are therefore forced to learn an absolutely new skill. People don't realize that some games are old franchises that they have been playing for years and any newer version that comes out they already have prior gameplay knowledge from the previous game like COD or halo etc. Then a guy plays sfv and has never touched a fighting game ever is gonna feel like its this gatekeeping craziness that its not.
They're not easy at all but I think they're *relatively* easier to learn compared to the past. Online forums, discord communities, replay mode,, content creators breaking down the games to understand more comprehensively with in depth tutorial are all available to players of all skill levels. With content creators like Blasted Salami, if you still can't learn the game or your character then you're not labbing enough or aren't understanding key fundamental aspects.
I just started playing xrd2 and I feel like the overall game has so much to keep into account similar to how league does. It didn't feel bad to play when I was learning how to mix inputs into combos on arcade though. I think sajam's main thing was that in fighting games you are in a 1v1 that is completely reliant on skill, and there is so much room for error that it can psych out a new player.
fighting games are uniquely more difficult than other popular competitive genres for 2 main reasons, 1- it's a 1vs1 30seconds avg bursts of gameplay, meaning there is no cushion to skill difference gap, it's painfully apparent when an opponent is better. 2- More importantly, it has a very small relative population size, this alone is why fighting games is way harder to get into than league for instance, even though they're both infinitely complex. In league, even as someone who never touched a moba, you can get to a 50% winrate in a week, meaning your games are FAIR. In fighting games, the only game where this is remotely achievable is SF6 currently, and in 6 months time it becomes exponentially harder. THIS is why fighting games are "hard", difficulty due to mismatched skill level is simply not fun nor fair. Learning to aim is hard, learning wave management is hard, learning combos is hard, but that type of difficulty is organic and enjoyable if done against equally skilled opponents. TL;DR fighting games are HARDER than other popular genres because the small population size turns beginner into punching bags as a welcome. Whereas you can pick up fortnite/league/overwatch..etc.. and have EVEN matches in a week. Losing to MASSIVE skill gap is not competitive fun.
I don't get how kids start fortnite if fighting games are so hard. Have you seen the barrier of entry for that game? Anything below "being able to micromanage a flying skydragon fort while cross-map sniping" just isn't viable. At least with fighting games my dumb boomer hands only have to focus on two types of inputs and ONE opponent.
Didn’t expect Sajam to talk about yakuza. Love all of the games and yeah. The games are pretty old but I think games 0 and up look really good. Just my opinion tho
This is a gamer channel but the topic is very, very real life and important especially in the context of last month (and really, the last 4.5 years in america). People make shit up.
Telling someone to just play whoever is okay advice, but some people actually just need to know they are playing a high/low tier character so they either don't blame the character and accept that they are still bad, or realize that they may be creating bad habits with a character that's allowing them to skip learning part of the game. If someone asks who they should play I assume they are one of these people and make recommendations accordingly.
"Fighting games are easy," get outta here, internet. They might be "Easy to learn, Hard to Master" but even that's stretching it. I mean fuck, I'm not terrible at Strive, I'm coming up on 3 months in Celestial, but I do not know how to kara cancel moves as Potemkin. That shit may as well be another languge. But if I liked Potemkin like that, I might want to put in the effort and master it. But I don't. And that's just one technique from one character. I can go on about how I *still* fuck up meaty grabs with Nago who I actually main and have since day 1.
It's because people play league and csgo casually as fuck and think they know the game so when they hear 'fighting games are about as hard as learning a competitive game' and think "oh, I play a competitive eSports game and that's easy"
@@TheGavinLaver I play on Keyboard. I didn't have any pain until I did the trial which said I had to mash forward and back to make Sol move under the obstacle as well as the challenge where I had to go over the wall by doing a perfect block 3 times then doing a qcf kick over the wall
