The Video - • The new progress Track... Check out my main channel - / @saltemike Check out my clips channel - / @saltemikeclips Check Out My Twitch Stream to see this live: / saltemike
Is it probable? I mean really, is it more probable than not that CIG meets a timeline on the tracker? I am confident they bat a less than 25% success rate.
As a former DoD project manager, former enterprise IT project manager/system architect and current CTO of an IT company, I just laugh out loud at how CIG is "reinventing" Project/Program Management and progress tracking. The "Progress Tracker" is not only meaningless, its BS intended to fool their customers into thinking that progress is being made. Project/Program Management is a well defined set of processes with clearly measurable results. If I had ever presented something like the "Progress Tracker" to a client or customer I would be fired on the spot. All we know is that they are working at some unknown level of effort on a task that is possibly part of some other vague task that somehow leads to a deliverable they don't define. I want to believe that they know what they're doing but it's hard to so with all this gaslighting.
It’s worse. The tracker only tracks “work scheduled,” so they are often not even working on whatever the progress bar indicates they’re working on. Frequently, it’s emerged that scheduled tasks lasting months and even years had received *no work whatsoever* during their scheduled time. Maybe they started it with good intentions (maybe), but it’s now, as you say, 100% gaslighting.
When they were 9 years into their project and spent a whole year to 'develop the technology(!?)' to make a roadmap and swore that they were only putting the high confidence stuff on there' they needed to execute. Instead it went down in flames within a couple of months, showing that even given a year long running head start their so called leaders and studio heads had so little grasp on how they worked that they couldn't get even that near term low bar correct. Their reaction to this inexcusable failure of their project leadership was instead blamed on the people who pointed it out as 'roadmap watchers'. They needed to clean house then but instead chose to blame their flaws on the people who had trusted them to be professionals.
A fellow DoD contractor here. The funniest aspect to this all is they have some 24 year old kid who was a fan of the game that got hired that knows nothing about project management or design infrastructure in charge of updating and maintaining said “progress tracker.”
So basically Roy is saying it's the content creators fault for calling the progress tracker CIG named themselves with the name CIG gave to it, that amount of copium is scary, white knighting for CIG is indeed among the most dangerous jobs in the world
@Stormyy6310 no, I definitely think it should be more accurately named. The content creator though has a responsibility to look under the hood to see if something is what it says it is.
@@RaysGuide "look under the hood", yeah and name it what ? The "string us along" tracker ? Plus the way you were clearly insisting "it's the content creators fault" when the clear one at fault is CIG poorly naming it was just ridiculous, I can understand trying to protect your source of income but there's a point where you have to not lie to yourself and cope about it, when CIG says X thing will take Y amount of weeks to complete then I'm sorry but it's entirely their fault that they're behind the schedule they put out themselves to their "investors" when X misses the deadline again, the issue is entirely on CIG for missing the deadlines they fix themselves 99% of the time and for wrongly naming the progress tracker (which was very likely entirely intentional if we're being honest for a second)
"LOL why are you saying the thing is supposed to do what it's literal name is, just because anyone with a basic understanding of the English language knows the definition of these words?" -CIG simps, circa 2024.
After his vid complaining about not getting pampered at cit-con I only see Ray as that type of RU-vidr. The kind that asks a game to be developed so their channel grows.
Really? well I wont take anything he has to say seriously now. Edit: Wow, I just watched that video of his. How pretentious. How dare they not recognize who he is!
That's when he lost me. I enjoyed his videos for the most part up to that point. I don't care for people with egos and he royally showed how inflated his was after his rant video last year about citizencon.
Don't really catch sarcasm very well do you? Which is kind of weird since you are commenting this on a channel whose whole thing is screaming about how CIG isn't giving him everything he wants.
@@RaysGuideAlthough i have my own reasons for disliking Mike, he really doesnt cry about "not getting what he wants" he just wants what cig promises us which is A LOT, and he rightly critiques them for it, however i think that even Mike is way too soft on this terrible game company
I really wish people would stop comparing "software timeline" to "game developement" that is simply not the same, software timelines yes generally dont have a "timeframe" because anything and everything can happen that throws a spanner in that time line. game developement is simply NOT the same here. In regards to the "art department" as in the ships, concept art, textures etc. all this is done with "timelines" in mind. there is a reason when you go apply for a game studio they generally have you do whats known as an "art test" that often is a piece of work they want you to create in "x amount of time" to a given aesthetic and then show/explain how the process came to be. So CIGs art team literally SHOULD have a timeline "not some vague bs" this guy is spouting thinking its the "same as software" now from a mechanical pov (so features) that does work similar to software in that you cannot have a timeline but considering what CIG implement is there bottom of the barrel version of said feature (so demo status as im calling it) these OFTEN will have timeframes because its there for quick conceptualisation to physically representation so they can see "roughly" how something will function, that is usually down to the code/engine team who will do this by brainstorming ways to implement said features upon request of concept/art team or senior leaders if they had meetings about it prior. So all in all, CIG should be working to a timeline, if art team never had a timeline then holy hell the amount of money those art devs could be burning when working on something that often isnt going to have "issues" during production in something like 3ds max or maya, this guy and many others simply dont have a clue how game developement works under the hood. now this all assumes CIG even follow the industry standard practice (which they probs dont)
The old charts used to be more accurate. back when they talked sprints. Because they work in sprints. The problem it is all estimated work and some stuff will hit when its due and some stuff they estimated too little time. The end result is what you see. there's nothing they can do about it other than hide all of that stuff and just share finished features as they are being released in a patch. Then they will look as productive as other companies. With this look behind the curtain you can see how chaotic it is and its frustrating for people that don't care about the process. I guess if they made the release tracker only show finished features as they are ready it would more exciting from a customers perspective
For some its easier to blame those that point out the thing you’re emotionally bound to failing than to accept the thing you’re bound to having failed.
Holy crap this Ray's guide basically sums up SC and CIG so well. Lot's of bloviating that amounts to literally nothing and will be irrelevant in 3 months.
@15:00 Amen. We're 8 years past where we were supposed to have 'all of this and more' and we still have frightningly little, very buggy content on live. I really don't care what they say they are working on anymore as there's no connection with what gets completed, nor the quality of the implementation.
If they don't know when any particular feature is going to be ready then I don't want to hear about it or see a deadline anywhere ever. I am beyond done hearing about what they want, I now want to hear only about what they've done and are currently doing. Tell me what you're working on. Tell me what you're testing. Tell me what you've finished. And then GIVE IT TO ME FINISHED. Beyond that, shut up. Make game. I'll tell you about the only desire that matters, the backers. We desire game. Make the fucking game.
You're my go to content creator for star citizen. I watch your week in reviews and as many react videos as I can. I feel like your view on SC is grounded and realistic. The day you tell me the game is actually moving somewhere and has some actual longevity beyond a week or two of content I'll be back in the verse, but until then I'll just another onlooker waiting for the game to become a game.
Mike, it is a fact the demographics of SC backers are middle-aged men career professionals, disposable income. And CIG Tries to appease their core demo with report frameworks that look familiar to us not your average 18 to 25 year-old gamer and yes, it makes us crazy is not the intended use of these type of reporting tools, deceptive confusing and frustrating. Not the intended use of these types of report tools
my dad died today and i just wanted to do a last mining run in honor of him as we wont be able to do it anymore. but no, i cant make the new patch to run. shader error and the char creator isnt visible. that is the straw that broke the camels back. i supported this with too much money and for too long. i will do everything in my possibilities to destroy this shit show. i wish you good people all the best, best health and take care. was a nice run but you will see me on the other side of the discussion from now on.
As a software engineer I can say what Roy is telling is probably right. My guess is that they can’t show when they will be ready because they don’t know. I’m also guessing that they Work towards finishing features not finishing on a certain time. “ it’s done when it’s done” As a player, I don’t like that either. But as a fellow code, monkey I can tell you we will get the better product in the end. And yes, I’m also frustrated about it!
there's also the fact that if they say X feature is coming in 2028 it doesn't really work well with a crowdfunded project where people expect progress, that's why they have to lie that it's coming at the end of next year using promotionnal videos and then when the end of next year comes they announce that it's actually coming at the end of next year because of X problem but don't worry because this time you have even bigger promotionnal videos and promises that this time it's going to be different and then when the end of next year comes they announce that.... *have I ever told you what the definition of insanity is ?*
sadly thats not how developement works (assuming the higher ups are properly managing it) generally speaking your giving deadlines for the work your "told" to work on by your senior leaders who often manage multiple members or teams. so CIG should know because thats how almost every studio works in the industry not when "its done, its done" motto but more akin to you have 6 weeks to work on this, after back and fourth meetings on which approach they want then its work on this and come back to us when you have something we can physically see from a concept to in CIGs words "phase 0"
If the tracker is consumer facing, it should be simple and straight to the point. It being called the progress tracker but not tracking progress is just idiotic.
Next time when someone wants any sort of scheduling or estimation of how long I am going to take for the feauture, I will link them Rays Guide. Just draw a line until December and then unfortunately the next year starts.....
CIG pisses me off. But to their credit- they have stated so many bloody times what Ray stated. And I have seen content creators misrepresent that over and over and over. So yeah, I agree with Ray- content creators are the biggest spreaders of misinformation.
I agree that content creators are the spreaders, but this ecosystem of bullshit is by CIG’s design. Content creators get views for speculating on CIG’s coy winks and nods. When those sly hints, presented in slick videos, turn out not to have been true, the content creators say “we didn’t know” (and they didn’t) and CIG says “hey we never said that-that was *your* speculation.
4:25 Correct Mike However, companies spend billions each year trying to figure out ways to communicate detail tasks and process to people who only need a 50,000 foot view. They do this by converting their project management charts and stats into a format easily digested for the masses. It is quite obvious the CIG DID NOT want to spend the money or time to convert their project management data and thus we have this hybrid useless example of ghant chart.
I have some education in agile development methods and project management both are sort of fun topics and interesting to discuss. Why would Mike hate on this... 😏
So he is using the bars to tell you when something is completed but says don't use the bars to expect when things are completed... Been a project manager for many years the end of the bar should be when it is completed or the bar isn't long enough.
Why does the “progress” tracker exist? I don’t think it’s marketing in the typical sense. I think it’s to appear to fulfil a requirement (self-imposed or otherwise) to inform backers what their funds are being spent on, and the limit of what you can expect to receive if you back now… which makes it very concerning that’s there’s no finished game (or even features) at the end of those bars.
CIG wants to provide the illusion of transparency and communication but simultaneously wants ZERO accountability for anything they say. Which begs the question, why even listen? My stupid ass keeps watching the videos but the fact that they cant understand why their playerbase gets frustrated when they never get an ETA right is increasingly annoying. Jared quadruples down on a 4.0 release before the end of the year, and instead of getting out ahead of it for once they just quietly scoot it back a quarter on their obtuse and obfuscated road map/progress tracker. I don't want features rushed out either, but I also don't appreciate being treated like a love struck high school girlfriend. Even in QnA's I often get the impression the devs are baffled that design philosophy gets misinterpreted or misunderstood, but it happens LITERALLY every time they open their mouths. Nothing is ever communicated clearly, seemingly not even amongst themselves. Jared struggled to reign a conversation about jump points in a few SCLs ago and it perfectly summarized the inarticulate nature of even some of the most front facing developers. I thought following the development more closely would be good for interest and excitement but the more i lean in the more frustrated i become.
Ray's video is inherently contradictory; It sounds like pure cope. He spends the first half of his video talking about how that tracker doesn't actually mean anything and that because game development is so fluid and dynamic just because a bar ends doesn't mean the feature is ready. But then spends the latter half of his video making predictions about what completed features will make an appearance at IAE and citizenCon because of where the bars end.
Tired of Windows, but there are people who don't want to have to watch 2hrs a week of videos out of CIG to see what's happening either. This tracker needs a legend and not require you to be a project manager to follow it. Right let someone who bought a package 3000 years ago spend 2 minutes to see where we are instead of watching hours of videos saying "what we may do in the future is..."
Fucking brain aneurysm material.. Ray: why are you calling it progress tracker misleading people, it's time assignment tracker! Other not braindead people: But Ray... CIG call that shit a "Progress Tracker", it's in the freaking name... Look.. 😂😂😂😂
Thanks for the react. Frankly I expect that shortly after 3.24 goes live they will start a FEATURE INCOMPLETE Evo of what they have ready to test for 4.0 because trying to test all the new features all at once would be too unfocused.
It seems like he's explaining why a Gantt chart isn't *really* a Gantt chart. It's apologetics. If it's not really a Gantt chart, why are they using one? It's shit-takes like this that I quit watching R'sG content.
Ray seems like one of those guys that likes the sound of his own voice just a little too much. Rambles on and over explains with a lot of opinions just to hear that voice a little bit longer
Never been impressed by Ray's Guide. He has a unique take on things that only works in the copium haze. Using a gantt chart like this is a very common way of organising and tracking PROGRESS for large projects. As for not being able to predict how much code you need to write for software. Yes you can. That's what the whole design process is for. And for most projects you don't even write most of the code from scratch. Video games are a good example. Most developers use a general purpose engine as the basis of their game. If they want a better physics engine. They might buy in a third party engine like Havoc. Ray is talking out of his arse.
I want to point everyone to the upper left title in the page: It reads "Progress Tracker", meaning, LITERALLY, the "track of progress in the game" It doesn't read "Hopes Tracker". This guy really is very eager to show how knowledgeable he is, but reality is that he knows nothing about the game!
@@crelgen1588 Regardless Ray is just pointing things out in his video for understanding. In fact that is exactly what he explained. Not sure why all the hate on his videos. He never once craps on other creators, just makes his stuff, and you got these edge lords coming at him. I mean is he threatening this community?
Always get mixed feelings watching Mike's videos. He wants it to be a game but it's so far from being a game yet. It's really a tech demo disguised as a game. They can't make progression and balance because they haven't built all the systems they need to make the progression and balance work. And while the tracker and road map are meant for the gamers - the consumers - it's made by tech people. This IS their idea of a simplified for the common man road map. Just look at how they talked about squadron. They said feature complete and assumed everyone knew what feature complete meant. They don't think like a lay person. That's not a bad thing it just means you need someone who is a lay person but understands the tech to communicate it better. Right now that's just Jared. I think they've been getting training on it though because they've all gotten better. Also, if you think they won't skip all that other testing and jump straight to Evocati with 4.0 you have more faith and CIG than I do. I expect Evo in the first week or two of September and brute force updates right up to Cit Con so they can either announce Open PTU or live.
The algorithm made me do this: Walk away Mike, juss walk away. Your opinion is not needed and you misinform people too much. Your idea of what's happening here is so skewed that you make everything worse.
I'm not going to defend CIG at all, but I'm gonna be honest. I'm glad CIG doesn't really truly show us what's under the hood while they're making shit. I don't think people in this community would be able to handle it. Never show a client the in-progress stuff. They just try to pressure you into changing shit when you already have a plan and it fucks everything up. I know we funded that game and 'we have a right to know what is going on' blah blah blah but there would be so much less drama if CIG had the same level of transparency as every other game studio and they just shut the fuck up and released a youtube video or tweet every month to remind people that they still exist and so we could all look at some cool shit every so often and say "hey! that's some cool shit!" and when it's done they can say "coming x date" instead of having to string us along because they thought they would be done with a feature and its taking longer than intended so they just have to keep saying "coming soon". If they never communicated the feature to us in the first place we wouldn't have anything to be mad about when they don't deliver it lmao
