The most horrific thing is Dream’s promise of them carrying their sins ‘until the end of time’ NOT their deaths. The judgment of an Endless is not something to ever bare.
He's actually mentioned before that it's ironic that they fear his sister, Death, but worship him, because he is much more cruel and terrifying by far. And we see this constantly in the people who cross him, like Maddock and the killers.
- That would be so weird though, just all of a sudden hundreds of serial killers turn themselves in. That would be a weird one for society to wrap their heads around.
@@DarkDylan10 heh, imagine being like the one killer taking a dump and coming back in after his speech and all your hardcore murder buddies are just crying and calling the cops on themselves......
@@NickJohnCoop He seems more of a go with the flow type God, doubt he double checks his work all that often. If it does then I guess he gets the time in between to be comically bemused before a cosmic deity goes Hat man on him in his sleep.
When I contemplate god and the idea of god holding people accountable I never pictured hell I pictured something very similar to this idea. I ws like if they could just appreciate the gravity of the hurt and harm they’d caused that alone would bring it’s own pain to them and in my opinion that hurts on a much deeper level than “burning in hell” ever could. So for that reason I found this seen incredibly moving and even validating in a way. No I’m not religious. This is just something I think about. I love this show.
The problem I have with this is that the only reason they were like this in the first place is because they were broken. Nobody chooses to be born a psychopath, anymore than anyone chooses to be autistic. What Dream did here was essentially cure them of their psychopathy, and not as a means of helping them grow to become better people, but purely as a means of psychological torture. I can’t condone that.
Except for in extreme cases one is still responsible for their actions. Accountability is not supposed to equal punishment the way it does in the current societal understanding. (Series spoiler ahead Dream locked up one of his lovers in hell basically for hurting his feelings so yeah there’s probably a lot of truth to the idea that dream did this more as a method of torture) But the ability to widen someone’s perspective to the degree dream does here, the understanding of the harm someone had caused would allow them to really do better. Cuz you cannot maintain meaningful changes with out understanding. I have a parent and many other people in my life who are both victims of horrible circumstance and perpetrators of significant harm. No these people do not deserve hell. They can’t help the environments that shaped them. But, they’re still responsible for the harm they caused and continue to cause. Knowing their background makes it easier not to take it personally. It makes it easier to walk away when that’s all I can do. But if they could just quit lying to themselves. If they could just quit with their justifications (“comforting day dreams in which they are always right”) and start making the changes they need to, getting help, taking personal responsibility etc. then those patterns if harm would break. I don’t know what good that perspective shift would bring about in an afterlife if there is one. But when I think of “cosmic accountability” I have always pictured something very similar to the concept depicted here, not for the sake of punishment itself , but for the sake of understanding because abusers are broken and need help too. But they still need to take responsibility like one of the collectors does by confessing to her crimes. Don’t get me wrong our justice system cares nothing about true accountability which hopefully I’ve illustrated what I think that means. Understanding the gravity of one’s actions seems a lot more purposeful than sending all the “bad” people to hell to mindlessly burn. Inevitably understanding the harm one has caused is bound to cause pain but in my head the pain wouldn’t be the point. The point would be the person learning and doing better.edit: Another thing to consider, the sandman shows mercy to John who was driven mad by the ruby and did awful things because of it. He could still have done what he did here as an act of torture however I don’t think the argument that the collectors were born this way holds up as a whole. They justify their actions to themselves the sand man tells us this when he says “until now you have sustained fantasies in which you are the victims) As far as we know each of the collectors here started off with a choice. They justified that choice to themselves and repeated the action again and again until they believed it. On some level they knew what they were doing was wrong. All dream did was take their self made delusions away and the collectors then started succumbing to the guilt of their actions. Which in at least one person we saw caused them to take personal accountability by confessing to her crime. This is not the same as someone born with psychopathic tendencies or other disorders/ true victims of circumstance as was the case with John. Dream has demonstrated that he takes things like that into account.
@@LITTLEMUSTANGFILLYyes to a degree even a psychopath knows right and wrong even if they don't feel the guilt of doing something wrong. So they have a choice. Trying to get better or remain one and do horrible things in secret like the killers here did. If they know they have to hide then they understand right and wrong and chose to ignore it because they didn't feel the rules apply to them. So dream's punishment was just. There are certainly psychopaths who can be fuctional without causing others harm. They chose a different path and they don't get a pass because they lied to themselves about what the rules are for them.
@@fanghurIt has been clarified all over the comics that Dream is not a hero or someone with a good alignment. The only Endless siblings who are kind are Death and Destruction. Death and Destruction. Let that sink in. Dream's punishments are of cosmic proportions. But this is a judgement I can get behind. The guilt would torment only as bad as they were, no more than that. Those grieving aren't getting their loved ones back and would carry the pain, and now the sadistic culprits get to sincerely grieve for their victims too.
I feel like out of all the Endless, Dream is the last one you'd want to piss off. Death and Destiny are more powerful, though Destiny is too preoccupied with his task and is more of a documenter of fate and knows you'd try to mess with him before you even would think about it. Death is far too kind and if she were angry with you, she'd just make you die instantly and you wouldn't be in much pain. Destruction could definitely fuck you up hard if he wanted but he clearly feels too much guilt to get involved. Desire would definitely be a threat as they'd make you fall in love with somebody or something and then ruin you long term by taking it away from you until you wanted to die. Despair and Delirium could probably do something similar but they're either too disinterested and discombobulated to care. Dream on the other hand will make everything you fear come alive and put you through the rest of your life or eternity suffering mentally and emotionally with no remorse.
Anyone other than Death and Destruction are going to punish way too harshly. The comic where murderous warlords went to kill the wife of a leader they decapitated but ended up killing each other when trying to impress her, instead of laying a finger on her, was an example of how Desire's touch can be devastatingly powerful. Despair as well doesn't need to be angry to be constantly dangerous. The whole Kryptonian extinction to let a child (Superman) carry the grief and despair of a planet and its species was Despair's plan at work.
The thing is. I love this series already. But this is one of my favorite scenes ever. Dream glances upon humans that have such corrupted minds and says “honestly, fuck all of you” *puts them through the pain they put others through but only mentally*
If I could have the powers of any Endless, Dream would be at the top of my list. The simple ability to give people a broader perspective to empathize with others would solve so many problems in the world.
Very chilling. I just found your comment in my 'held for review' section which brought me here. Thanks for sharing. Yes it would be excellent if it played out this way.
@@ExposingtheNarcissist he was so spot on and i can think of no better divine judgment that even god can pass on these creatures. you might be able to use this clip in your vids. happy new year
I’m not a religious person but I always hoped if there was something after this then that’s what hell would be, what he described. The monsters feeling the pain and suffering they have caused for eternity
I do hold such a view myself. That hell and heaven are not places, they are states. And at the end of ones life the soul free from human emotion and clouded thought will see the true extent of damage it has wrecked on itself and the true extent of good it has done. And as such it shall suffer in its own guilt/remorse, or it shall take pride and joy in the good it did.
@@butterfly-fy3wzThis is actually a religious belief in Eastern Orthodox Christianity. They believe that after death, all souls are exposed to the presence and love of God, but while the pure souls experience this love as joy, for a sinful soul it is agony as it is hurt by its own guilt
@@principetnomusic I was well aware of the EO belief. I have a few friends who are orthodox. There are critical differences however, objective against subjective morality and the presence of a being causing punishment instead of simple lack of emotion. Instead of being in a state of "pure reason" you are in the presence of "all good" and compare against it.
