SANTI Heating Vest vs. Heating Suit - Which one for diving in winter 2020? 

I own the Santi heated Vest 2019 Style (not Flex 2.0). I wear it in winter over my Merino undergarment and under my Xerotherm. That is sufficient for me for up to 70 Minutes in 6-8 Celsius Mines and lakes. (I am not getting cold very quickly) Without that vest and the heating i would have to use my Arctic Undergarment. I have the impression that the vest heats up very quickly and feels very warm on back and front. After a while (20-30 Minutes) i often get the impression that the vest is turned of since i do not feel the heat effect anymore. This might be due to getting accustomed to the warmth. When switching the battery of then i very quickly feel the difference though and cold starts creeping in again. With a 10ah battery i get about two hours of heating which is sufficient for two dives a day. I usually turn the vest on after 20 Minutes into the dive when i fell the cold building up. Or on a deco dive when switching to Oxygen / NX50 since the higher oxygen saturation makes me "feel colder".

@@yornziesche8608 yeah that’s according to my results 😁. I think it’s really the case that you adapt to the warmth after a while.

Thank you!

Thank you very much! I try my best!

Yeah they are great!

No, I didn’t but good point. Maybe the vest has to be hotter, because it lets more heat dissipate to the outside. Unfortunately, I don’t own the old version. So if someone has one, we could just check the temperatures.

Well…thanks for the question and valuing my opinion. I personally wear two canisters on the right side. Another option would be to use a canister with two cables. Both has advantages and disadvantages, but I like two canisters more. I personally do not use a controller, but I don’t see a real problem with it. It’s nice to be able to control the heating.

Yes I am. "Doctor Ben" was actually a nickname a friend gave me (and persisted to use) after finishing my PhD. I'm a biologist.

I was just to ask the same question XD

So just answered. 😄

I don’t know any cases of damaged wires. I guess this takes very long term testing but I don’t know anyone who had problems with broken wires due to carrying heavy gear

I never used this combination personally. But the Santi vest is relatively thin. On the other hand, you might be a good candidate for the full suite. Then you can leave the Halo 3D behind and use just the heated suit. Do you have a possibility to try it?

@@DoktorBEN yes, probably I will have to try both solutions!

Yes I think that’s the best you can do. Mobility is important!

Ja true. You can use the vest even with a thinner undergarment giving you even more mobility and flexibility

Usually between 6 and 12 degrees.

Yes I would use the vest under a normal piece of undergarment. If you use the heated suit, you wear just this. However, it’s relatively stiff. The vest has better mobility, but you have to wear another suit on top... the overall mobility depends on the undersuit you use. From my point of view, a very flexible undersuit with vest offers better mobility than the heated suit. But depending on your undersuit, replacement with just the heated undersuit can be beneficial. Both is possible, one or two canisters. Two offer more redundancy, one is cleaner. I think it’s a matter of taste. If you’re a big guy, two canisters can be worn in a clean way. If you’re a small girl, two canisters might hardly fit on your belt.

@@DoktorBEN mine was just curiosity, for now my run times, depths (T1), and dive sites (mainly mediterranean sea) do not require a heating system. I use the BZ400x Just in fresh water, in winter. Thx

Yeah I think that’s sufficient. It’s never getting that cold in the Mediterranean

Yes possible. That might be the reason you don’t feel a real difference even the peak temperature is lower. It‘d be nice to measure the heat dissipation for instance... so if anyone has got a FLIR camera... you’re welcome! 😄

@@DoktorBEN try the local fire department if you can do your test at their place. Most likely they have one?

Yeah that’s possible. Thank you for the tip!

Depends on the battery. If it has a switch or a dimmer, the heat can be adjusted and/or turned on and off. If it’s not dimmable, it’s always on.

Yeah thanks! I’ll do!

Yeah the experiment would be exciting. However, you would have to find out the usual Argon percentage in a suit

@@DoktorBEN True enough. One would need to ensure the suit is purged with Argon and if at all possible, "methane venting" were minimized ;)

Yes absolutely!

Yes sure! And quite frankly, I’m thinking of getting the heated suit, too, 😄

It’s not so thick I add no weight or maybe one kilo around

Well, never tested it so I can’t really say anything about it. But maybe I’m going a Heizteufel vs. Santi video in the future!

Did they also use the Heizteufel gloves? I’m interested in those vs the Santi ones

Well...I wanted to get them for a comparison, but Heizteufel did not respond unfortunately :/

@@letoatreides8337 Same here. Product is top notch, but customer service the exact opposite. To answer your question: Yes, they did. Pro: Both sides of the hands are heated. Santi only heats the outside. Minus: The Heizteufel Gloves are not warm at all if not heated, so you really depend on the heating system, which I view as a no-go. Moreover, one of the gloves was not working, which gave the friend of mine a firsthand experience, meaning a fu**ing cold left hand. ;-)

@@exilvfler thanks for the update. I’ve had really hoped that it was a reliable solid product. Santi and most other brands only allow 11.1/12v (3S) for their gloves which keeps keeps output low (36w max) while Heizteufel allows 14,8 (4s) which brings the output to 52w and thus much warmer. This, 52w, seems like a nice thing as most people find the santi gloves still not very warm (‘just not cold’ instead of warm)

What do you mean by weak

@@DoktorBEN it gets pilling on several parts of the surface just after a few dives.

Oh... that’s not good. Do you think it’s a general problem or just an issue with your suit?

@@DoktorBEN General problem. the outer layer material is stretcher than flex 190 but not as durable as flex 190.

@@user-yn9jw5th2d ok, good to know!

My answer is gonna be a long one…so I’ll type it if I’m near my laptop…typing in a mobile is really a pain 🤣. Please be patient 😄

@@DoktorBEN No worries, thanks a lot for your feedback, really appreciated !

So now: 1. I fix it with a rubber band to the valve, so it does not dangle around and is no entanglement hazard. Otherwise, you could at any time just quickly exchange the valve. Be aware: In DUI suits, the inlet valve is glued to the suit, so it's not quickly exchangeable. 2. Well....I prefer to have the heating separate from lights and DPV's just because of what you mentioned: A failure in one battery does not fail all of your electrical devices at once. On the other hand....if you need to swim, you don't get cold ;). But if you need to drop the scooter somewhere like when entering a small passage somewhere, you loose your heating, too. That's why I'd recommend a separate battery for the heating and using the DPV battery just as a backup and (and that's really important!) if the DPV burn time allows it. When running out of gas 2 km away from the cave entrance because the DPV battery is drained, feeling warm and cozy won't help you.... 3. Yes. It's a good idea in any case! I have both canisters on my waist belt, usually the heating canister first and then the light canister. If you are really small, there might be not enough space on the belt. In that case I'd recommend a canister with two cables. 4. Yes and they have a good reason to be so conservative. Especially on dives with longer deco obligations, you don't want to be warm and hence well perfused in the beginning, on-gassing quickly while being cold, less perfused and slowly off-gassing during deco. That's why I recommend to switch on the heating only after the max exposure during deco.

@@DoktorBEN that's quite an absolutely perfect answer ! Does GUE have specific protocols with heated vest / suit ? I never heard anything related to that (e.g. what you mention: turning the vest ON after max-exposure) Are you aware of any system allowing to modulate the power to the suit (% of power: 0-100%) ? Would you recommend using one ?

@@TheMarcoflint I'm not aware of any "official" protocol, but it's just common sense and we talk about this in the academic sessions. Sure, if I'm doing a lazy sunday dive in 10m in the winter, I turn the heating on all the time. Doing decompression dives is a whole different thing! I think there is a battery from Uwavis that can control the power. With that it should be possible to control the power directed to the heating vest. However, I don't know why one would use this. Maybe I'm to practical, but if I feel cold I turn it on and if it's too warm, I just turn it of :)

The one I used in the video is about 500€

What kind of motorcycle heating is that? Could you send me a set to test?

@@DoktorBEN I'm not the manufacturer, but they are gearscanada.com gearscanada.com/collections/powersport-heated-clothing You can maybe ask them... Gloves are very thin and you can wear your usual gloves on top. The only thing you need to do is replace the connector. Easy to do.

That’s a good idea for a new video. I think my videos lack in the number of explosions, anyway. No, you’re right, it depends on the type of cell!

It's my italian genomic trait :D :D :D

@@DoktorBEN 🤣❤