@@lynchstan9745 So do I. The other night at work someone said the word, "Covenant" having absolutely nothing to do with the movie and I got MEGA pissed lol. I'm a grown adult.... But sometimes you just have those movies. I'll leave now before I get into an essay
We were talking in film class how Star Wars 1977 spoiled a generation with big budget special effects... Force Awakens not only rebooted the franchise...it rebooted Hollywood. They know 90% of viewers are normies who crave for childhood memories. Like you don't need special filmmaking, you just need 3 Spidermen in the same movie or Deadpool meeting Wolverine like one of those Power Rangers episodes where they meet the previous one...Nothing fancy. Otherwise they think too much about the craft. It's like Porn. Who cares about presentation? Regular viewers don't.
@@Tyler.the.contentcreator I wish he'd been here because he liked the movie and the contrast would have made more interesting conversation. A good example of how tragic Jankem Addiction is
Nah, he just got tired of associating with overly negative contrarian douchebags who despise everything and have no idea of what the fuck they're talking about.
@@zeebooboo9663 I still love the boys but having more than 2 people always makes things more interesting. Unfortunately we can't have Scoot anymore but maybe Gael would be a great third.
@@citizen3000 People who feel the need for everyone to share their opinion are the most boring people on the planet. Glad you hated it. Go tell it to everyone at the party I’m sure you got invited to…
The part at around 30:45 where Adam talks about how a movie can make a scene such that it works for a general audience but also integrates subtle obsession fan stuff made me remember how good I thought The Matrix Reloaded was before The Matrix Revolutions came out. Reloaded existed partially as a follow-up to The Matrix, and the second part of a trilogy. But before the third part came out, it also existed as an ongoing forum-based fan theory conversation on the internet. That made the movie so much more interesting and better, and that moment mostly ended when Revolutions came out.
Having Ian Holm in Romulus doesn't work as it completely ruins Ash from the original movie. If he's a mass produced model, then the crew members of the Nostromo would've known that "Ash was a goddam robot" the entire time. Also his name is "Rook", just like how the android in Aliens is called "Bishop". GET IT! DO YOU GET IT!?!? Then there's the problem that this space station existing completely destroys the notion that the company doesn't know about the Xenomorph in Aliens. Then there's the problems with the movie regardless of how it slots into the franchise as a whole...
My impression is that androids weren’t a publicly known thing yet that the Nostromo crew knew about. Weyland-Yutani could’ve mass produced that same model for their internal divisions- oh wait I forgot Prometheus exists lol. The continuity in this franchise is a bit fucked.
I didn't hate aliens Romulus. I hated the Ian Holmes thing, but tbh there were a lot of callbacks I just didn't notice bc I haven't watched the older movies in a while.
I feel the exact same way honestly, only recognized two or three line callbacks in the theater (the “get away from her you bitch” being the worst one easily) and then I hear people referencing other ones that went completely over my head cause they just sound like anonymous, generic lines. I agree it’s very very flawed tho, and I’d argue Prometheus edges it out but I thought overall it was decent
I hate Alien Romulus. The series is all over place just with the core films - even more so with the prequels that I don’t consider real Alien films - but god none of them crossed the line that Romulus did. None of them were what this trash is - the cursed self-referential “legacy sequel”. To see an Alien film contain callbacks, references, copied shots was just, wow, a slap in the face. This is what genre movies are now - slop. And people cheer for it.
Regardless of how you feel about any movie where this sort of thing happens, I just think it should stop. There is the weird modern fear of just recasting, but if you'd really argue that one specific actor is vital to make that role work, how is digitally puppeteering their dead body honouring their work?
@@PauLtus_B It’s almost always unnecessary but it definitely was in this case. They simply didn’t need to do it and they absolutely shot themselves in the foot with it. This was an unforced error, as they say. It didn’t need to be an Ash copy at all. They didn’t need the Ash copy to repeat Ash’s lines. Hell, you could write the story without ANY exposition dump android IMO. It’s such an unbelievably stupid creative decision. And it’s all for a dumb, forced reference to an infinitely superior film. Seeing Alien become THIS is so depressing.
I saw the Alien 45th anniversary in theaters and there was a pre show with the director of Romulus interviewing Ridley Scott. The guy is genuinely a super fan, for better and (mostly) for worse
I really hated how much Adam and Alex assumed Ridley put his own stamp onto this film and how much Fede was forced to change. They’re just assuming it all. And saying “it’s not in service of anything” is bs like it’s in service of the film itselfn
American Beauty is one of my favorite movies and, to me, the quintessential contemporary drama. The narrative and theme of personal reform and discovering and being your true self is timeless and wonderful, and it resonates with me so much more as an adult. The foil of Chris Cooper’s family of damaged, dead, and closeted people to Lester’s family is superb, and it just makes the ending so much more tragic. Ball has a really whimsical and beautiful perspective on the nature of life and individuality shown in this and Six Feet Under, and I’m personally grateful to have these things in my cultural conscious.
Am I the only one getting a bit sick of Adum reviewing the audience? The idiots yelling at you on Twitter are not real audiences. Twitter isn’t a real place. I love Adum, but his impressions of how he perceives the audience and snarking about their taste is getting kind of offensive. I don’t care in the slightest that he didn’t like the movie, I love it when he has a radically different opinion because his articulation helps me understand both his and my own perspectives. I don’t even care if he rants about crazy fans. But at a certain point I want him to discuss the movie and at least understand that not everyone has studio decisions and industry speculation in mind when they go to see a horror thriller set in space. People outside Twitter for the most part aren’t stupid seals clapping for ‘member berries, and waiting for their messiahs to tell them how to think, just because they showed up to see a movie on its opening weekend and enjoyed a series of well-shot horror set-pieces and dazzling sci-fi imagery.
All I could think when I saw that was ‘what were they thinking?’ Not just the visual of it too, but the role of the character. Just a fucking nothing role except to dish out exposition dumps and callbacks. Fuck that. Fuck this film.
I think Alex’s opening statements about American beauty and its place pre 9/11 is a really thoughtful thing to say. One of my favourite things I’ve ever heard him say in fact. Really connected with it
The alien franchise had so much potential for intrigue and mystery. As soon as they started to try to connect all the movies together, explain how it all works and create a "timeline" it took all the energy out of what made the the first 2-3 movies work. What people liked about prometheus is that, at first, we had no idea where it was going or how it related to the other movies. Imagine if every installment was like that without having to spell out to the audience how it connects to the other movies.
The franchise needs a new alien creature. Move past the Xenomorph, please. Maybe make a cool biomechanical snake that hunts underground on some remote planet. You can even do something like Tremors. Do anything new, please.
@@vivalavalentina I guess you don't need to. The financial success of Romulus proves that. But if you want this franchise to actually continue to being new things to the table, it'd be wise to do something interesting and new.
@@bilbobaggins9451 coming from someone who actually really unironically likes alien covenant, every time this franchise has tried something new it hardly ever works. prometheus and covenants black goo plot device and the way it retcons the xenomorphs’ origin just destroys what made the original so good. in my opinion the best thing for this franchise would be to return to its roots. the cosmic horror, the retro aesthetic, the disturbing corporate aspect, and the sexual themes. romulus had much of these things but it was just a soulless and cynical execution with no thought or passion behind it. just member berries.
@@vivalavalentina Well, that's what I meant by my original comment. Introduce a new alien creature to return us to that survival horror goodness. You can still make a cool biomechanical atmosphere while returning to its roots.
15:28 Adam, there was no tension in the first 10 minutes. The first 10 minutes is the introduction of Rains home planet and meeting the characters. Are you brain dead?
The reason I don't really like Romulus is fairly simple. It suffers from the same problem a LOT of modern horror movies suffer from, including beloved ones like get out. That being that they just devolve into mindless action in the third act. The whole idea of "less is more" just isn't a thing in blockbusters anymore which I personally kind of am getting sick of.
The Ring 3 - Act 3 - an army of Samara’s crawl thru the tv screens, but it’s those Jumbotrons in Times Square and then the coast guard gets called in but their guns don’t work and all hope seems lost but then the President says “let’s make NYC one big well” and detonates the whole island
when y’all were talking about the disney marvel-fication of alien, and how it kind of devolves to references irrelevant to the plot… wait til you see deadpool and wolverine. it literally exists for references and made so much money, got a lot of acclaim, so we will be seeing more of that and romulus. inside out 2 is just the first movie essentially and it is the highest grossing film of the year and was critically acclaimed. people want to see things they recognize. i just wanna see interesting new stuff!
I’m a huge passionate fan of Alien 1/2 and naturally have time for 3/4 and various Alien comics, books and games. Romulus disgusted me. Like viscerally disgusted me. Awful dogshit film.
I just don’t fucking care for shawn levy, to be honest. he lost me when he decided to be a lord & miller knock off but without the intelligence and vision.
Most of the dreams I remember are me going to a store, finding merchandise that I don’t have or doesn’t exist, and I’m disappointed when I don’t have it when I wake up
The shot of Lester’s dead body is my favorite shot in any movie. First, Kevin Spacey’s dead so that’s always a plus. Secondly, it’s so atmospheric and I love how the color of the blood contrasts with Lester’s warm smile. It sends chills down my spine every time I think of it. I can just see it in my mind now.
Romulus has a lot of member-berries, for sure. However, Alex and especially Adam are really missing the pure basics of why most people like it. It's just a series of well-made horror/tension sequences. Adam stretches the criteria of member-berries to autistic extremes, if just panning over to a facehugger x-ray is enough to qualify, or simply having a close-up of the xenomorph when it first drops onto a catwalk. Those scenes aren't meant to make people clap, dude, they are there to build tension. Adam often comes across like he doesn't even understand the point of a horror movie to begin with. Also, please tell me which sequences in any of the Alien movies COULDN'T easily translate to being video game-y objectives, with them being spaceship sci-fi stories and all.
>so, please tell me which sequences in any of the Alien movies COULDN'T easily translate to being video game-y objectives When the chest-burster KOs John Hurt during a normal cafeteria dinner scene
I don’t understand the critique of feeling video gamey so you can’t have a clear objective in the film? Or you can’t have a fun set piece doing shit with gravity? Like I think the movie is just okay but I think adam hates certain aspects of the movie then just wants to find more reasons to hate it
The tension just didn’t really work personally. It was predictable, by the numbers and got loud and filled with teen horror jumpscares. I felt little tension when the xeno’s were reduced to acid filled flies. Also I never got the feeling the main two characters were in any real danger. There wasn’t enough silence for me
I disliked Romulus because of its characters. I’ve heard people praise it as being similar to the Nostromo crew in that they’re just a team of regular people put in an extraordinary situation. But the main issue for me is, while the Nostromo crew work because they actually feel like people rather than characters - their chemistry feels organic, and their reactions feel subdued enough that you actually buy them as real people. Romulus’ characters feel more like “movie characters” in that they feel defined more by tropes and single characteristics that feel more like reasons for them to make stupid decisions for the plot to go a certain way. They’re just tropes, rather than actual people. Only Andy feels somewhat better.
Romulus characters are barely there. I mean not there for some of them. What is the Latino girls character, really? What is the jock guys personality? The others have one one/two more characters. What’s the main characters personality, who is she? I don’t know. The actors performance is fine but the writing for her character, the dialogue isn’t there for her to do much with her acting ability. The characters are a flatline except for being annoying obvious cack-handed writers setups for plot points, like the android hating chav. He hates androids to a ridiculous degree so that he can do dubious stuff later on for the plot. It’s all so tiresome.
I understand what you're saying, but Alien suffers from the trope characters too. Evil scientist, lazy mechanic, sleazy union man, scared shitless, arrogant captain, the first to die, hero. I love Alien, but you can't say it's characters aren't very one dimensional.
@@citizen3000 Yeah, and I think Alien is a better movie. Still has trope characters. So does Aliens. I'd say the first to break trope characters would be Alien3.
American Beauty is one of the best movies ever. It's a movie that has aged so well over the years, and it's one of those movies where absolutely everything works and gives you a lot to talk about once it's over.
"DESECRATION THROUGH VENERATION" This is how LikeStoriesOfOld described the current state of nostalgia in movies. I think he nailed it. Films stop to worship their own predecessors now. Hollow references, rehashes, eerie resurrections, made with 'love'.
@@TheBlueJamie ding ding ding! romulus has almost nothing to do with Prometheus, OP only thinks it does because they mention the original legend with a throw-away line lol. It's 100% a send-up to Alien 1,2, and 4.
@@SonOfAGunYYH The black goo from Prometheus is literally in the movie & even made the creature at the end look like an engineer from Prometheus. Yes the end of the movie refers back to resurrection more but in order for that to happen they used the goo from Prometheus. Ding dong
An ending being a callback to another movie doesn’t make it the same level of quality. Romulus calls back to Alien and Aliens, which I’m pretty sure we can all agree are superior to Romulus.
I would like to please urge internet reviewers like Adam or RLM to ask people who aren't "movie people" about their opinions on movies. I get the feeling that a lot of terminally online film reviewers are ironically out-of-touch with what general audiences think because they're stuck in the Twitter/RU-vid arguement hellscape. It's all a big, angry echochamber that most filmgoers don't have any knowledge of. I can tell that, between the "M. Night Stans" discussion last time and the "Memberberries" discussion this time that this online discourse really upsets Adam, and I think it would honestly be refreshing for him to hear what "the common people" have to say about a movie from time to time. I am in no way criticizing Adam here btw. It just kind of bums me out that he gets so upset over other people's opinions online. I spoke with a family friend who is age 60+ and it was fascinating to hear her opinion on the new Alien considering she doesn't partake in online film discouse at all. I urge everyone else to have similar discussions with people in your life. It expands your worldview more than you may think.
Well said. You can’t expect everyone to have the same mindset as a film critic. That’s how you become out of touch. And I’ve seen many movies, from different countries and decades.
I have mixed feelings on Romulus. On a visceral level, I really enjoyed it. There’s lots of good filmmaking at display and it’s super fun. 2 great leads and solid constant tension, too. But most of it is just exploiting the audience’s nostalgia and replaying earlier moments from the franchise. It lacks originality for most of the runtime. Particularly, I find the idea of bringing back dead actors to be appalling and ethically horrifying. Overall decent movie, but I don’t want to see this nostalgia-bait storytelling become a more popular trend
I think Romulus p!sses me off more than Covenant. Covenant might be a worse movie to watch, but I can at least respect it more. Romulus is just such a manipulative product of a movie, much like Jurassic World or the Force Awakens. Every time I watch Jurassic world, I think, "Hey, I could just be watching Jurassic park and get way more out of it." Whenever I watch Force Awakens I think, "I could just be watching a new hope right now and get way more out of it." Now, when I watch Romulus, I'll be thinking, "I could just watch the first two Alien movies and get way more out of it. Even the third and fourth, tbh."
Yes, exactly! I basically hate Covenant but it wasn’t insulting slop like Romulus. Covenant at least looks great, has a great double performance by Fassbender and has interesting ideas and sequences. Romulus absolutely pissed me off way, way more than Covenant did back then or now. Tbh I watched the sequence where they enter the hangar and eventually blow the alien out into space by detaching massive mining equipment to hit it and I preferred that one scene to anything in Romulus. That’s a cool scene. The speed and violence with which the alien moves around the hangar to chase Shawn is great. The visual effects are great. There’s tension. I cannot stand Romulus. The characters are bad, the story is bad, the direction is mid, the script is bad, and my god the legacy sequel forced references were almost physically painful to endure. Say anything you want about the weakest films in the series prior to this - whether you include the prequels as real alien films or not - but Romulus absolutely plums new depths of terrible. I really really dislike Prometheus as somehow being part of Alien and again I basically hate Covenant as schizophrenic mess. But they are so much more interesting, genuine, and better directed films than this.
I have discovered so many great movies from just looking up Thomas Newman (Meet Joe Black, Shawshank, Scent of a Woman). It all started with American Beauty - was in a posh hotel in Harrogate showering and heard it on classic FM on the radio. Immediately looked up the movie and to this day it remains in my top 10 of all time.
American Beauty lingers with me to this day. That Alien film is meh, has set pieces I liked, Andy I enjoyed but it’s stuck in the same box as the first Alien.
To be able to break bread with Adam and talk dreams. I've used my dreams to work through my emotions many times. A nightmare featuring someone I'm at odds with ending with mutual understanding and, upon waking, feeling an overwhelming sense of peace.
I feel like Adam’s criticism of Rotten Tomatoes doesn’t make sense here at all. Rotten Tomatoes is a bad metric of a films quality, but so the amount of likes the RU-vid trailer has. But you’d never attack the RU-vid likes because you know it’s not meant to measure a films quality. Rotten Tomatoes measures the broad appeal of a movie. It doesn’t tell you how good it is, just how likely it is that a group of people will have a positive experience with the movie. Adam says people are itching for sci fi horror, so the movie having an 83% makes sense. Lots of people want this, so most people will enjoy it to some degree. They might all think it’s a 6/10 but that’s not a deception on RT’s part, that’s just people not knowing how to use it.
It's been a long time since I've seen American Beauty - I saw it in the theatre on release when I was 16 and loved it, saw it again in theatres, bought it on DVD, watched it at least half a dozen times, but haven't revisited it in years. I'm glad to hear it holds up. It will be weird to re-watch it now that I'm the age that Spacey and Benning were when they made the film, seeing it first being the age of the teens.
I liked the actual filmmaking of Covenant, I liked the setting, effects, audio, and visuals a whole lot. The obvious references drove me nuts because it feels like franchise desperation, as if nothing new can be said in certain moments. I liked some of the acting, David Jonsson in particular was a great new character, which is the infuriating part to me. They can clearly make a great new character, but then making another model of Ian Holm is so stupid. There's literally no reason for it to be Ian Holm, it's a differently named android with a new setting, and it's always a big detriment for me when they dig up dead people who didn't consent to be in a new movie. Chew me out for virtue signalling or whatever, I don't care if his relatives gave the green light or if he said in some 90's interview that it would be fun to return, he didn't agree to be in this script and that's messed up in my opinion. I don't know why people try to cope and overstep that line and try to celebrate that crap. I even had an argument with someone who said it's fine since it wasn't a fully 3D CG facial scan and instead was a puppet/animatronic head with a face composited back on, as if that somehow makes stealing a likeness any better. Plus it just looked pretty rough, his teeth looked like they were floating in his mouth, serious uncanny valley stuff for me which I don't really experience often. Just get a lookalike if you are dead set on reusing Ash, or just make a new character, it's completely fine to do that. You won't cause an angry mob, I promise you. I really didn't like certain ideas coming back like the Prometheus goo and another human-xeno hybrid, mostly since I didn't like the movies it is re-integrating those ideas from. I'll never enjoy the Prometheus or Covenant stuff, but more power to those who do. I'm more with Alex, I think Covenant was worse than this one. I don't hate Romulus, it's lows are just really low for my enjoyment, but I hated my whole experience with Covenant, and most things after Aliens personally. It felt like purgatory to me to see the callbacks I don't appreciate. The second I saw the black goo I just went "Oh no..." But there were parts I thought were neat. It's a real mixed bag for me.
When I realised the stuff in the tank (that the camera was dollying in on) was the fucking black goo I mega cringed and went oh god mentally. Oh god no please god make it stop. I hate the movie through and through. It validating and connecting itself to all the prequel horseshit is just another nail in its coffin for me. All of that stuff should have been completely abandoned. Instead this says nah that all happened and it’s the confirmed origin of the alien.
Little Children (2006) is a great film to compare with American Beauty. Surprised it's not that popular after the recent success of director Todd Field's TÁR.
Thank god I don't get the paralysis part of sleep paralysis and can wake myself up, those shadow people are terrifying. I hate the dreams where I'm in a brownout and can't turn the lights on, need to use that for lucid dreaming. Sometimes I can read but usually not consistently. Cameras never work. Why take the picture if you can't keep it, I guess. One time I ate before bed I had a nightmare that someone was stalking me with a 6 month old sandwich. Really annoying when I pee and pee and pee and can't get any relief but then I can get out of my dry bed and do it properly.
It has big problems. The director was clearly the wrong choice. If people said it was mediocre or bad I wouldn’t take big issue with that. But it’s definitely its own thing. It’s not this weird Frankenstein fan fiction legacy sequel reference Alien(TM) brand nonsense that Romulus is. Alien Resurrection is 100 times more in touch with what makes an Alien film than Romulus is. Alien Resurrection didn’t make me want to bash my head in with a brick while watching it at the cinema (which I did, way back when). I would watch Resurrection again and be entertained with the limits of what it is. I don’t want to ever watch Romulus again.
I thought Romulus was fine. It definitely played it too safe but it's far better than Prometheus or covenant. Those films tried waaaaaay too hard to be deep and failed. As someone who loves scifi, those films are an insult to the viewers intelligence. This one, on the other hand, tried to be a return to form and did a pretty solid job. The special effects were great, the setting was pretty cool and the action was pretty good as well. If this film existed all by itself it would go on to be a cult classic down the line. The worst thing about this film is it's kinda boring if you have already seen at least one alien movie. It doesn't cover any new ground and that was disappointing. The thing about the alien movies, and this is something NO ONE wants to admit, is that the motivations for the Weyland corporation have always been fucking retarded. "it's the perfect organism". "It can't die zomg iz so kuuhll
I haven’t gotten to that portion of the discussion yet but in general, I’m tired of people saying American Beauty doesn’t hold up. It’s a great film. Kevin Spacey’s obsession with a high schooler wasn’t supposed to be cool back in 1999. It was creepy then and creepy now, that’s the whole point.
Sam Mendes is the most misunderstood auteur in mainstream cinema next to the Wachowski sisters, Edgar Wright, and Rian Johnson. Of course any negative discussion about American Beauty fills me with dread because every film critic who derided it as bad (or any Mendes film, to an extent) are behaving like fucking Doug Walker.
My big problem with the Ian Holm Rook character was that. Before you even see his face. I was under the impression that the movie was communicating to me that what had happened in Alien 1979 had happened dozens if not hundreds of times. Like over and over Weyland Yutani puts people on these routes where they pass LV-426 and they have to go and pick something up and it's an Alien and they have a droid that is meant to try and make sure everything goes to plan and over and over people die and over and over people catch the Android and there's all these ghost ships out there with Alive or Dead or Xenomorphs on them. But then it turned out that's not what was going on and Rook still wants to protect the humans as long as they don't get in the way of his goo where Ash didn't care about anyone. So he's not even the same as Ash. So I don't understand why it just wasn't a different android entirely. It felt very frustrating. Idk maybe the only reason he wants to keep the humans is so they can get the goo for him since he can't do that himself but even before the goo comes up he's telling Andy to protect them no matter what. I do like a lot about the movie but Rook really bothers me. Which is a shame because if you take out the Ian Holm aspect I think he's a very interesting character.
I'm with Alex, "Alien Romulus" if I were to do an Alien movies ranking would be right in the middle place, almost the missing link between Alien 3 (I'm a proud stan of that film, it's an imperfect gem) and the point the rest of them get less good/recommendable. Alien: Covenant maybe has some funny bits like James Franco becoming a crispy duck (excellent reference to Seth MacFarlane's "Ted", bravo Scott) and the "I'll do the fingering" between David and Walter... but as a sequel to Prometheus... no. Covenant is insulting in so many layers. They kill off Elizabeth, especially after her strong "No, we're doing things MY way, I wanna go meet the Engineers and understand what's going on exactly" finale and she yet got killed off offscreen and David fools around with the most uninteresting, forgettable and dumb characters of the series, and then Covenant ALSO gets Force Awakens-y with the "We gotta fight a Xeno in the ending 'cause it's tradition". I'll give Romulus this, I for one am glad they didn't retcon the two Scott prequels entirely (as bad as Covenant is, I think the stuff with the Engineers can still work if just handled the right way) and I'm glad they changed the mission regarding the xenomorphs from "We must train them into out killer animal weapons" to "We want to study them and figure out how to become as strong and adaptable as them so we can survive in space better". Yes, there's still a SciFi schlock angle to it, but it's still more logical than "Let's capture and weaponize the monster!" which is always dumb and never feels like it's worth it because they can easily turn against you. And the concept art of those trained Xenomorphs with the computers installed in their heads following the space marine was absolutely repulsive. I hope we will never get to that point and this is why I embrace the alternative Romulus suggested about aiming to evolve and strengthen humanity. A bit Warhammer-esque which fits with the cosmic horror aspects.
alex holy shit im so sorry you have these nightmares. i didn't know you still had them after you stopped taking yoru anxiety medication. it sounds awful to go through that every night lmfao
Weird fact the actress who played the daughter in American beauty was only 16 at the time of the movie being filmed but was allowed to do the topless scene with her parents consent
He said bitch because the android hating character said to the android "bitch", not a really sound reason, but the android at least learned it somewhere.
That’s what I thought too, I thought it was cute since we had good Andy back and kinda reinforced their “sibling” dynamic but it’s a reference too so everyone hates it to death
I liked your conversation on American Beauty. This film for me was instrumental in wanting to become a film buff, one that sees stories in film on a deeper level. Even before allegations came out, I was still a bit weirded out by Spacey's character wanting to bone his daughters friend in the plot. All pretentious elements aside, I still like the film.
