Saucony Endorphin Speed 4 vs Speed 3, Boston 12, SC Trainer v2, Deviate Nitro 2, Mizuno Flash 2 

Take me to the universe where the Saucony execs said “the Speed 2 is pretty much perfect so let’s change nothing and just keep it in stock forever”…

Great and helpful comparison - thanks.

Shoes don’t need a new release every year. Speed 2 still the best and they should’ve never released a new shoe.

This is super helpful because most of us have probably run in at least one of these to use as a reference point. The Hyperion Max is another shoe that needs some break-in. Deviate Nitro 2 is an exception because it has been the same at mile one and mile 500 but is still durable.

Excellent comparison and analysis, thanks. I'm trying lots of shoes to see which suit me best, and am erring towards Hoka Mach 6 for shorter runs and some fun, ES3 for longer runs and tempos, and keeping my old Speed 2s for 5-10K fast runs. Probably not going to keep the Superblasts, but might find a place for the Novablasts. Happy to have several shoes, they should last at least a year for me.

Thanks for the review! Besides the New Balance 1080 and Nike Vomero you mentioned, what other recovery shoes would you recommend? I currently use the Nike React Phantom 2 for speed work, but it feels a little too firm for recovery especially at longer distances

Fantastic comparisons! Much appreciated! Dont suppose youve got Superblast?

Speed 2 was the perfect shoe. Speed 3 was purchased but became a daily shoe when it didn't quite hit the use case I was expecting. Shame the 4 has gone the wrong way. Takumi to fill the void 👌

I love my speed 2 so much. Gonna be a sad day when they retire

Can you compare speed 4 with speed 2?

Hey Yowana, I have a random question about the SCV2. How much room do you like to have in front of your big toe? I had sz11 in the V1 and had almost a full thumbnail space. I got sz10.5 in the V2 because all my other NBs are 10.5 and I figured since they changed from the sock upper a 10.5 would be better. So now I have a 1/2 thumbnail space which I was obviously expecting but just wanted to get your ideas about this? Have you noticed the V2 loosening at all? Is half thumbnail space pretty standard for runners? Thanks for your time and take care.

How is the sizing with the Mizuno Flash V2? Same size as the Endorphin Speed 2 and 3? Fits narrow? Size up?

When will shoe manufacturers stop releasing new shoes every year? Customers are not asking for this, unless there is a technological advancement to make the shoe faster, lighter and comfier without sacrifice. Its 2 years in a row that the speed has been degrading (almost 30 grams heavier).

Sounds like the speed 4 might still be an interesting option for a daily uptempo shoe then. Different use case. The 1 and 2 where ‘unique’ for me in that they handled both speed work and long run workouts very well. For speed work I mostly use the Takumi Sen 8 now, spunds like the Boston is an interesting atlernative. I still haven’t found the ideal shoe for long run workouts yet (marathon training). Endorphin Pro 4 has the ‘snap’, but gives me hotspots after about half marathon. Endorphin Speed 3 doesn’t quite do it. Nike Tempo works surprisingly well, but always feels clunky. About to test the Superblast, hope that works!

Do you plan on testing the Atreyu Race Model? I’ve heard the carbon plate in that shoe is more flexible and not as aggressive as the top tier racers. It could be a great shoe to compare with the Endorphin Speed 4. Also, the shoe retails for $120 and you can normally find a coupon code for at least 10% off. Would love to hear your thoughts on this shoe.

I've heard many reviewers saying certain shoes "bottom out" over longer runs. Do you mean they gradually compress too much over a long run, losing their bounce, cushion, or both? I find the term confusing, just as there's confusion between the terms "bounce" and "responsiveness."

Interested to see how durable the shoe is especially as a heel striker.

Current rotation: boston 12, puma deviate nitro elite 2, ASICS magic speed 3, mizuno wave rebellion, and brooks aurora-bl. Boston 12 is still what I enjoy grabbing the most. Do you plan on picking up/testing the diadora v7000 átomo? The description of your use case for the speed4 makes it too much of a casual/easy mile shoe that can double for errands which in that case it would make more sense to get something that looks way better and non-plated

Similar feelings on the Boston 12. 70ish miles in now, feels broken in. But feels waaaay better on Tempo runs vs. long/recovery

Speed 3, in many countries, is sold out in most common sizes. Especially if you need a wider fit or want the most common sizes.

I wish the ankle padding on the Boston 12 that they have on the sides actually connected, or remove most of the side padding to only cover the back half moon of the ankle. I think this would fix a lot of heel lift issues. Adios 6 heel pocket is perfect, and that shoe is on the lighter end. Boston 12 back heel pocket is so flat and rigid, that I need to use KT tape to reduce the heel lift. I seem to have similar problems in the lasts of every Saucony shoe I've tried to some degree. The Speed 1 was ok if I really locked the shoe down, but the Speed 3 upper is so stretchy that on longer runs I think it stretched and then contributed to the heel lift. Maybe it's time I just abandon certain companies and stick to the ones that have heels that naturally work for me, like Asics daily/recovery shoes and Nike racers. I'd probably end up with less shoes on the go at any given time! LOL Great comparison video, as always.

Is the Boston 12 much different to the 10?

Shit! They haven’t round the speed have they?

I loved my Speed 3,.over 600 miles on mine. Don't know why they are calling the Speed 4 'speed' anything..disappointing. I am replacing with Asics Magic Speed 3 to go with my endorphin pros and triumph 21s

Come on man! The speed 3 is already discounted in many countries. Long time ago. 50% actualy!

Ive had a much different experience with the speed 4 so far. I had over 300 miles in my speed 3. It definitely felt fast, but softer and easier to run easy paces. The speed 4 for me does not feel good at slow paces. Its firmer, more responsive, and stiffer. Took it for 11 mile tempo out of the box and it felt much speedier than my 3. Everyone's mileage varies though. I also have the SC v2. Really not even comparable. Speed much much firmer and faster for me. Same effort im probably running 30-40 seconds faster in the speed. Fit for Speed 4 is very similar to 3. Wide toe box, good lockdown, still runs a bit short so if between sizes i go up in pretty much all Saucony shoes.

Hated speed 3 regret buying it thought it was going to be a improvement over the speed 2. Saucony have ruined one of the best range of shoes that they have released

Sounds like they are ruining the speed.. I have 3 pairs of the version 2 and i think im gonna stock up on more as the 3 didnt get good reviews vs the 2 and seems the 4 is not even a tempoish shoe anymore.. Such a shame

i dont understand why saucony would try turn the speed series into a pegasus or some type of daily trainer when they already have a daily trainer called the saucony ride :S leave the speed speedy

Mizuno been going for 120 years.

Why do shoe companies have to ruin everything?

Do you really need a plated tempo trainer? Plates are such a new thing, a lot of people presumably did just fine with foam trainers? Are there non-plated trainers suited for tempo workouts? The mach 6? Superblast? Rebel?

Maybe Puma sent you a dud...nothing firm about the Deviate 2 imo. I can't do firm shoes, and they feel wonderful!!

For as much love as the Deviate Nitro gets it did not work for me… my pace was much slower, wasn’t fun to run in, and destroyed my knees. Still love my endorphin speed 2’s.

First

SC trainer V2 so heavy and clunky..