Your comment prior to minute 3:22 about less runout bolting is the unsaid way of saying by the first ascender of you having to step up to your own inherent boldness and not cater to a safety margin that caters to your fearful self, remedy is go find something more in line with your wheelhouse, for what it’s worth I don’t agree a climb should be done any other way except on how the first ascensionist envisioned it otherwise it dumbs down your current experience
I respect that viewpoint, however, in Joshua Tree specifically, I have a hard time finding climbs "in my wheelhouse". 5.6s were sketchy, so I've tried seeking out 5.5s, and was still extremely uncomfortable. The sandbag is inevitable as is the runout, so it's hard to figure out what is in my wheelhouse. I find it a bit discouraging. I'm not saying it should be a different way, but I personally cannot accept the inherent risk of many "easy" Jtree climbs, which is unfortunate because they look SO GOOD. Being uncomfortable is good, but accidents happen, no matter how skilled you think you are, so as I said in the video, I cannot be risking taking massive whippers in my free time and injuring myself or I'll be screwed at work! Personally, it's a mental war. How can I balance my respect the first ascensionists while also acknowledging how unfair it seems that a group of guys that lived to climb can jaunt up a rock like it's nothing, place minimal protection, grade it 3 grades easier than anything else comparabe, then claim that every climber who follows must accept the same risk. 🤷🏽♀️🤷🏽♀️ Its something I still struggle with. I know a lot of climbers have a different opinion and that's ok too! As an aside, after leading, I TRed Double Dip in my approach shoes afterwards without weighting the rope, so it's definitely in my wheelhouse. The inherent risk is just a hard pill to swallow.
@@TheUnremarkableClimber I appreciate you replying first of all and like your channel, yes Joshua tree is unrelentingly challenging in the lower grades as I’ve spent a couple weeks there but must texture my ambitions or non ambition to take a bad fall by either committing or not, I’m w you about not wanting to take the risk but also the same time I want to be able to step up to fear and overcome it….or go climbing something else haha
It's the climbers dilemma! Risk vs reward. And unlike sports like snowboarding where you drop in once, we have to keep making the decision to continue up with every move.... that's what makes climbing so special 😊
@@TheUnremarkableClimber ,those lower end rated routes are more run out, no doubt about it. Jtree is the sticky wonderland because of the type of granite there. There's no better place to get yer smear game on. Now Tuolumne...that's another story. :)
@@grumpygardner3059 I can't wait to get out there! I've been hesitant thus far for that very reason because usually if I'm climbing it I'm the one leading it. I'd like to follow for a bit and get a sense of the style before I commit to leading out there.
Another point; protection was placed to keep you from dying; and serious injury; not so you were able to fall your way up; like most sport climbs. Your competence was your main protection.
A very good point! This just means that for those of us who love climbing as a hobby but aren't willing to risk life and limb, much of Joshua Tree cannot be accessed except via TR. Which is what I end up doing half the time now and still have a great time 😊
There's a bolt at the start now?? First gear was a large cam at the bottom of the flake. A girl I climbed with had double dip as her first lead; she just went up the face to the right of double dip; and then jumped to the ledge when she saw the bolt above the ledge. When I was trying to get her to go to the left; she was; it's easy. Glad you enjoyed it.
Yeah! It's nice to protect a stupid mistake but the climbing is fairly easy up until that point. The flake is too. I thought the crux was much higher up, and even then wasn't too tough once I figured out the moves. What a committing first lead tho!
@@TheUnremarkableClimber I remember after sending my first 12C at rifle going to the valley and being very happy to have sent lunatic fringe 10c. One of my best partners ever lived in SoCal in the 80's and climbed j tree a lot. I remember him telling me that every time he did an 11a it would get downgraded to 10d. This went on for months, so that place is definitely conservative on the ratings.
@@torreyintahoe Well at least he had a good gauge of Jtree 10ds LOL I really have no idea what to expect based on the grade. I've felt comfortable on 5.6s and felt terrified on 5.5s. For me personally, I look for the easiest grades and expect it'll be a battle regardless 😅
Totally feel you on that. Yeah it feels like a 5.11 climber is setting these 5.6 routes and running it out. I'm not sure why they do this. It makes climbing unnecessarily dangerous and I wouldn't call running out "fun" haha Like if someone wants to run something out just skip bolts.
Haha literally 5'11", I had to reach up on my tippy toes to clip most of them 😅. I get that it has to do with the JTree ethics of ground up bolting, but sometimes I wish there were a couple more bolts in there 😂
@armond...Prior to sport climbing and rap placed bolts, climbs were done ground up, no rehearsals and drilled on lead. Bolts were placed to protect a crux move and if a good stance was available. I've put a few routes up, (nothing breathtaking) drilled on lead and not rehearsed. It's not as easy as one may think. Give some of the old Stonemasters some credit, we did. We climb, in their paths. Have fun.
Honestly insane standing on that wall on lead long enough to get pro in! Nothing but respect for the determination and financial commitment involved in FAs!
And now insanely talented humans are climbing 5.15 (HOW) but the 5.6 grade still stands! To be fair tho, the climb isn't ridiculously hard, only feels like it with the spaced out pro.
Great video and energy. None of the climbs you filmed are sandbagged, they define their grades. I recall my first trips to Joshua Tree and remember being challenged by the style of climbing and the bolt spacing. For me, this was remedied by just climbing in Josh a lot. Climb on!
They aren't sandbagged as per joshua tree standards, but if you climb an equivalent slab climb somewhere like Holcomb, they'd be rated 5.9 for sure. Not saying it's a bad thing but definitely something to be aware of for first timers.
No, that is incorrect. It means the other location is over rated. Joshua Tree is the So Cal standard, no amount of rationalization will change that. Just wait until you climb slab in Yosemite.
Hahaha I can't wait honestly! But every other place I've climbed this far in socal is rated easier than joshua tree, so whether everywhere else is overrated or jtree is underrated, the point stands that it is not the 5.6 experience most are expecting if they've climbed anywhere else in socal.
You should have climbed Stichter Quits (Black Tide) which is a very good route but even scarier that Double Dip. It'd now a 5.7+ but was an Old School 5.7. Climbed both these routes in February, 1986.
I just started trad climbing at Devils Lake and it is also a place where a 5.6 will absolutely destroy you! Thanks for the videos I will definitely keep watching
3:10 jtree is like this because power drills are not allowed in the park for placing bolts, everything was hand bolted. complaining about a lack of bolts in J tree is a bit uneducated imo. there is more than likely sport crags around you if you want safer climbing, but you should respect that someone had the boldness to hand drill the bolts you're clipping.
Oh believe me I do respect them, but it doesn't stop the the little voice in my head 😂 Plus, I am fully aware I could go walk up and set a TR if I wanted. Just saying what most of us are thinking while 15ft above a bolt. And if you're not thinking that, congrats haha you've got more control over that little voice than I do 😂
A dangerous climb is a dangerous climb. Climbing is becoming more and more popular - and if someone is coming out to climb a 5.6 and its closer to a 5.10 then there is big potential to get hurt. I get there is tradition and the stone master did it with less etc etc, but that is then and this is now. Why not add a few bolts, make it safer and more accessible for other to climb - instead of being stuck with an old school mind set.
I don't think I ever want to be comfortable with runouts. Whenever I do, I remind myself the severity of a mistake. The day I'm comfortable on runouts is the day I get complacent and take a tumble.
Maybe a few well placed bolts would improve the experience for many climbers, but this is a place where a dangerous rock under the landing of the boulder White Rastafarian was moved clear, and then moved back by the locals and the Park Service. After which there has been some pretty serious injuries from that large rock. So I think retro bolting those runout slabs is very unlikely. I personally have always liked the excitement of big runouts and thought it was normal for the first many years of my climbing, I think there are many climbers who feel that way. But I'd be out there in a second with my drill if the Park and locals and the climbing community agreed to allow retro bolting those climbs, because I think everyone should have equal access to the easier climbs in J Tree.. I also think there is an elitist culture in climbing, the stronger bolder climbers think if they are fine with something everyone should be. That goes for many facets of climbing not just runouts... Also good job on Chalk Up Another One! that route has some slick tricky smears!
Thanks! I agree! They were all super fun routes. I actually quite like slab climbing. I made it up Chalk Up Another One but I didn't feel like it did it right. Who knows though!
