I believe this is the concerto about which a violinist once told Schoenberg "It would take a violinist with six fingers to play it." Schoenberg's answer? "I can wait." Someone count Hillary Hahn's fingers, because she plays it beautifully! (To be fair, so have many others.) But she is spectacularly good. Not just the virtuosity, but the *clarity*, the transparency. (The orchestra too.) And I like the way she makes the cadenzas really sound improvised.
I just came here to listen to this (not heard it for years) as a result of doing a fiendish Crossword (in the Crossword Club of Romsey in Hamsphire's members' mag), in which the first letter of extraneous words in some of the clues spell out "another unplayable work", leading the solver to the words "Schoenberg Violin Concerto", spelled out in the grid in the shape of a violin, and finally having to alter five letters of "Little Finger" (1 down) to make it read "Longer Finger" (the new letters still forming real words with their crossings). I said it was fiendish - not unlike the piece! I know the Berg better, unsurprisingly, but thank 'Crossword' for getting me to listen to this again.
Les deux cotes de Schoenberg : instrospectif (Moise) et extraverti (Aaron). C'est renversant, cette musique et cet enregistrement. D'immenses mercis pour le post.
Few years ago, I cannot listen to this, but nowadays this kind of music is most relatable to me. One must have experienced or felt... something, in life to appreciate this with ease. Because of the difficulty in coming up with the "narrative" of the music, it's like as the present time moves, you are "prohibited" to reflect on the past and look on the far future. Yeah lots of things happened with some bits repeating and some moments seem exciting, but you *recognize* almost nothing, so you think almost nothing really happened. Hahn performed this exquisitely.
This was my first hearing of this concerto, so wonderfully played. How fun to hear themes of this kind so masterfully developed in a traditional style, but with the harmonic and intervallic vocabulary of the twentieth century. I agree with other champions of this work, Schoenberg's genius is on display here.
The concerto by Schoenberg is one of the most difficult of the repertoire. it is typical from a primary step in serialism, when the series was used as a theme - or rather as a thematic source. This is perfectly perceptible in the very beginning of the concerto. Webern never used the serues like that, and this first manner was criticized by the Darmstadt school. Here, we can hear a proof of success of the concept. Note that the concerto by Alban Berg uses he same technique, in an even more vident way. Hillary Hahn is wonderful in all the concerto, especially in its most difficult sections, like the cadenza.
Hi Gérard. I have a way of writing twelve tone that emulates Arnold instead of misunderstanding him which I feel Anton truly did. Alban and Arnold look to stretch tonality and not to annihilate harmony which many predecessors did. Kaikhosru Sorabi wrote one piece longer than the entire life production of the Modrian of Music. Opus Clavicembalisticum was the name of this gigantic piano work.
I could care less. Anton von Webern began an era of static nonharmonic music. He influenced many of the composers would chased the public out of the concert hall.The future is moving forward and so is harmony. Listen better to Obuhov or Mosolov or Roslavets. All of these fabulous composers were influenced from late Scriabin. I am as well. @@ricardonachmanowicz2890
Madame Hilary Hahn, les grandes révérences á Votre Art si empathique... aussi les remerciements á Swedish Radio Symphony Orchestra avec M. Esa-Pekka Salonen en chef - en méme temps - merci d'en nouveau-naissance, de l'oeuvre toujours contemporaine -
Everything in this concerto is so uncomfortable to execute I don't understand how this is even possible. Her grasp of everything in this piece is extraordinary
I appreciate your comments, both pro and con. This work seems to have struck a chord or tone row among the listening crowd, and that's a good thing. It's a magnificent piece and Hahn plays the schlitz out of it.
It's as if Hilary dreamt this through Schoenberg and we've dreamt it through the both of them . . . this other place. Though we walk through these shadows of dream, we shall feel no sorrow, for ours is the long lone path through it forever and forever. And then thank Hilary, Schoenberg, and God not only for the dream but for the gleam it brings to us, at once palpable and yet ungraspable, like life.
I admit I don't know much about this kind of music but I like it. It reminds me of old black and white monster movies or The twilight zone. I heard about this composer in an Edward Abbey novel.
This concerto is very demanding for the soloist. The melodic and contrapuctic metarial evidence the 12-tone row used in this concerto. The construction is both very subtle and rather easy to perceive. Hillary Hahn's rendering is wonderful.
It's a wonderful performance. It is a well-made work. The violin concerto op36 is the first 12-tone work after coming to the United States. The 12-tone works after arriving in the United States matche the idea with the style of the work, enabling optimal performance and deep appreciation. As the first work to listen to 12-tone music, I recommend it along with the piano concerto op42.
Hilary is a genius violinist . It isn't possible to wish for any more performance ！ Is any more performance possible ？ It is the best performance that shakes person,s soul .
@@shin-i-chikozima Hallo ! In June 2019 Hilary Hahn will play sonatas and partitas of J.S. Bach in Munich. This will be an great and astonishing event. Yours Erwin Inderau / (Erwin.Donner.@gmail.com)
This work is a 12 tone work, and not a serial piece. It is also a valid extension of Mahler's romanticism. In that sense it may be thought of as ultra-romantic and multi tonal. Due to it's tone organization, it is a 12 tone piece. Schoenberg never wrote serial music. Hahn plays it beautifully.
@@joshuasussman4020 Yes you could say so, but Boulez set the stage for his serial music, which have many added rules. Serial music as an expression has become associated and understood as Boulez's .
Однажды у С.Прокофьева спросили: есть ли у него своя система, наподобие Шёнберга. Гордый Прокофьев никогда не хотел ни на кого быть похожим. Поэтому он ответил "нет!" На самом деле, она у него была. Итак, вот уже 100 лет мы "неправильно" понимаем его музыку? То наслаждение, которое мы испытываем, - "неправильно"? Кто знает, что нам делать?
That is not odd. Happens to me with even freely atonal music. The brain just needs time to adjust and repeatedly listen. It never gets easy, but the rewards are high when one finally "gets" it.
@@paxwallacejazzThe issue is quite simple to analyze, and Berg's violin concerto is the most Advanced example. Its series is G, Bb, D, F#, A, C, E, G#, B, C#, Eb, F, which obviously allows a lot of "ghost tonality" and whole tone sacakle.In the first movement, the emphasis s given to the 8 first tones; i the second movement, it si given to the 4 last tones, which are a fragment of the whole tone scale and allow Berg to "assmilate" the final chorale of Bach's BWV 60 cantata. In Schoenberg's concerto, the series is handed in order to give a "local" sens of tonality. You can have a look at the score by downloading it from IMSLP. For intance, in the very beginning of the concerto, you faind a clar cadence on B major. But this cadence leads to nowhere and is immediately contradicted by x clearly atonal bars or aother quasi tonal cadences. rené Leibowitz demonstrated it quite clerly in the ealy 50's in his book 'The music with Twelve tones'. these tonal feelings lead to nowhere and cannot give a rational explanation ot the architecture of these works, while the serial handling does it quite convincingly.
Beautiful Harmomelodic structure great orchestration amazing performance by orchestra and soloist I knew Schoenberg could write for violin from his chamber works but this part is other worldly Hahn has taken on what may be the most difficult piece in all the repertoire and the results are jaw dropping Overall it may not be the easiest piece to listen to but as a Violoniste and lover of 20th century music I think this may be my favorite violin concerto…beauty comes in many forms Welcome to Bay Area maestro Salonen I look forward to seeing you transform our scene
What made her learn this ? And how ever did she get them to let her record it . And most importantly what kind of meaning does this concerto have for her and has she been anle to play it live ?
If it's between Schoenberg and Bartok.I think the" Franz Kafka of music"(Bartok) was a better composer than the" Piet Mondrian of music"( Schoenberg).I suspect he was trying to attempt his style.Kafka and Bartok understood how insane everyone and everything is.Schoenberg was trying to not write cliches.
Boulez wrote that the Mondrian of music was Webern and that Schoenberg was the Kandinsky of music (I would add with a little of Picasso's analytical cubism). I think the Kafka of music is Hungarian , but not Bartok, I would say Ligeti (and a little bit of Kurtag). Boulez also makes the following analogies: Mahler : Proust, Berg : Joyce (Wozzeck=Ulysses), Picasso : Stravinsky....
You can't bloody compare Kafka and Bartok. Bartok was a composer of extremely pastiche and predictable music, whereas Kafka was a literary master of the sinister and mildly absurd.
@@jackfletcher1000 Please... you have no idea what 12-tone music is all about. There is incredible thought behind Schoenberg's tone row and subsequent permutations. Take a few seconds and research what he did to create this art, or if you're too lazy, at a minimum, show some respect and understand that you don't understand 12-tone music. You don't need to like it, but to say that your granny's cat is a better composer only shows your ignorance. Enjoy your 7-tone diatonic music that your granny's cat actual does write when they accidentally walk on the white keys of the piano.
I just researched the performance history of this work by the New York Philharmonic at their online site. New York premiere in 1952 by Krasner and Mitropoulos. Next performances in 1967 by Zvi Zeitlin with Leonard Bernstein. And then? We're still waiting. Something about this piece...
Interesting, and creative. I wouldn't pay to sit through a concert of this, too unrelenting. I like a little beauty! Would make a great soundtrack for a horror movie, though. It captures the sense of alienation and unrealized searching, like a Kafka novel.
Hats off to Hilary Hahn for mastering concerto, no easy feat and objectively speaking I am in awe of this. But for the love of god why would anyone torture themselves with this when there are so many other wonderful beautiful violin concertos out there? I tried to listen with an open mind and yeah I think that’ll be the last time I do that. I’m sure some elitist out there will consider me a mere simpleton but meh.
My ears are working overtime to try and understand this, it sounds........ well not bad but also very strange, feels more like a song you'd hear in an old timey horror film right around the climax when the protag is about to be found by the monster or antag, it's just.... very confusing
It probably was lmao, this guy was around early 20th century and the piece has no key and the soloist probably died immediately after performing this because of how hard this guy's stuff is to play.
I retire from this barrage of comments. I refrain from critique of my predecessors. I therefore remain with my opinion in silence. I am a Maters Graduate of Composition from the Juilliard and have enjoyed developing an alternative approach to the music which came before me. Good night and Good luck and good riddance.
Dear Paul, I read that you plan to retire from these comments. It is Indeed a pity, you will miss. Your vision is very interesting. Unfortunatlely, I do not read German, but I can understand some words. As far as I can understand, you are german, a blessed country for music. I recenty visited y=the historic museum of music instruments in Berlin - quite fascinating Indeed. Your approach through symmery (and by way of consequence assymetry) had some forerunners, among Bartok's analysts, among selialists, and among the and among the analysts of the so-called 'pitch class set theory" as developed by Allan Forte and some others, which prove very useful in studying for instance Elloitt Carter's music. It could be an exciting debate to compare these different approaches. Yoàu know, I haver sti udied musicology for about 50 years and posted 15 musicologic studies covering some 20 centuries of Western music, playing in parallel pino, harpsichord and organ on an historic Renaissance instrument. Should you accet to have private excahnages, mail e-mail address is begnigerard@yahoo.fr. Sincerely yours.
@@gerardbegni2806 Hi Gérard, Thank you for your guidance with showing me some tolerance. I am a Manhattanite of Lebanese descent married to wonderful lady from Germany. If you wish you can listen to some piano sonatas of mine in you tube. I have lived here for over 35 years and enjoy the country more than New York. I will not comment any longer about Anton von Webern who set an entire post WW2 musical direction. I feel there is still too little room for alternative modern music. However perhaps the day will arrive soon. I have grown out of Bartok Debussy Ravel Stravinsky and Scriabin as I studied at Juilliard. I actually started as a rock musician and have written many jazz oriented pieces with modern classical. Many Greetings from Constance, Germany. Here is my website www.amrod.de/audio. Are you living in France? Many warm regards, Paul
Go to my channel and check out "Bernstein on Schoenberg" in 5 or 4 parts (I forgot). Excerpts from the Unanswered Question lecture 5 (The 20th Century Crisis) ! PS not monitised
So I am listening to the first movement cadenza, and suddenly some mindless fourletter idiot wants to sell me grammarly and thinks this is an ideal moment to do so. With his own sententious follow up for some other rubbish too. All those folk who object to the Schoenberg clearly don't mind about this. Or have they just been edited out? The way Hahn has just been replaced by Zeitlin?
"only the Mascot" i,m hurt, you got me, there now i,m signing off ,I dont converse with people who converse with Troggs and who visualize themselves as characters from films" nutters "in other words so goodbye and I hope that you wont get tired waiting for Santa
The beginning is quite interesting. The series is first shaered between the violin and the tiny accompaying orchestra, then mirrored. This sharing of the series gives the strange felling of a chromatic expressionist melody in the violin, with traditional tonal perfect cadences in some parts of orchestra, through the claiiscal process of five degrees fall in the bass, ad traditional chords links in the medium parts. Nevertheless, if you try to performe a tonal analysis of this bebinnng, you will find nothing coherent (cadenzas withaout any rlation, etc.... so the truth id that it is the series and nothing else which brings order and coherence to these strange introductory measures. Similar n but more comples are at work in Berg's final violo=in concerto ' to the memeory of an angel'. Resding the two scores when one knows tonal harmony and have clear ideas about how serial techniques work shows clearly "actual tonal ghosts" controlled by the series.
@@lorifreedman4280 Aren't you sensitive for instance to the chomatism oh tje very beginnng at the violin and the way how it develops an the daunting,, fugitive pseudo-tonal harmonies in the orchestra? thiis is so beautiful !
@@gerardbegni2806 I guess we simply have different ways of appreciating music that touches us. The most important thing (in my humble opinion) is THAT is touches us and to FEEL that on the skin. You can explain it all you want.
This is for my ears still a wild rendition of modern harmony that is constantly changing its tonal center. The twelve-tone theory is actually an advancement from Wagner's quasi wild chromaticism that denied tonality as well. Arnold loved to juxtapose six packs!! Therefore it was a logical development. I think Schoenberg should have written more rules to control the bastardization of his wonderful harmonic approach. Of course not expecting the arrogant attitude of his predesessors.
Are you sure you meant "predecessors," and not "descendants?" In any case, I don't get your suggestion that composers are arrogant for re-inventing or advancing compositional methods. Beethoven could hardly have written a note if that were the case! And what would it have changed for Schoenberg to have written more rules? How would that have changed what later composers decided to do? I assume that Schoenberg wanted no more nor less rules than he created for himself. He wasn't trying to dictate anyone else's music.
@iconoclast www.amrod.de/audio Here you can listen to my approach to an alternative to modern music of the 20th century. I happen to be a 21st century composer. By the way I accept the world for how it thinks. I think sometimes otherwise. Have you heard of freedom of speech?
Theoretically I get Schoenberg's intent. But. At the end of the day, music moves the emotions and the intellect. Forget the academics, this music is the music of death, pain and horror. That is worthwhile, but not sufficient enough to be anything more than adding to the composers palette of colours and expressions. In the same way that pop music adds to the materials a composer can utilise. If horror is your thing then super. If beauty is what you want then while you can have ugly beauty it remain unsustainable. I prefer those who want to express something that moves the emotions positively and manages the full palette of colours and tonality/ non-tonality when required to deliver that outcome. This is why indie-classical is the best. I suggest listening to Tuur, Richter, Lang, Mazzoli, Part, Muhly. And for heavier stuff: John Luther Adams, Wolfgang Rihm. Serialism is an interesting but ugly dead duck: if only the great composers opened their ears and listened! Rather than getting obsessed with theory. Sometimes the idiot in the concert hall knows more than the supposed genius.
this comment is by david eberhardt- the gestures by Schoenberg lurk near enough to keys and traditional other concertos as to make them acceptable- other composers (boulez) leave us nothing but arid experiment (not that that is bad- just has no emotion and no beauty!!!)
@@tuberaxx Hardly? She's the least personable soloist out there, and that's saying a lot, since most solists these days are musically generic sounding. If you put the Hahn, the Fischer, and the Batiashvili in a room, turned your back, and listened to them play individually, you wouldn't be able to tell them apart.
@@muslit Uh, “personable” means “having a pleasant appearance and manner”, which is not something that Hilary lacks, if you’ve seen any interviews with her. I take it that you mean that Hilary doesn’t show enough personality or individuality in her interpretations, which I have to disagree with. Hilary highlights the intricacies of the music without injecting unnecessary flourishes into her playing; she lets the music speak for itself. As for her Schoenberg, it’s hardly generic because there are very few violinists able to play it convincingly, and that includes Heifetz.
Sorry, but this perf just doesn't do it for me. With Schoenberg in general, and Op. 36 in particular, I'm like "come on, get in my face" but this performance is so intellectual... sigh...
@@DreamlessSleepwalker Not necessarily. This is what happens, whe someone jumps from Mozart to Schönberg. It's as if somebody from the 16th century is beamed into one of our megacities unprepared :)
