It’s wild to me that the same people who complain about traffic, property taxes, and children not playing outside tend to be the same people who refuse to build cities in ways that would give them what they want.
It’s a circle, living in the suburbs insulates you from the problems that lead you there in the first place. Hopefully this will die with the boomer generation
@@JaKingScomez It actually is, in an indirect way. All the karens protesting at townhall meetings against denser housing and public transport infrastructure has a big impact on this.
As someone from South Scottsdale, I appreciate that you opened this by noting the profound cultural, demographic, and infrastructural distinctions between South and North Scottsdale. Almost all of features that give Scottsdale its infamous reputation exist exclusively north of Lincoln Drive. When I travel, I tell people I'm from Tempe just to avoid the presumptions that come with telling people I'm from Scottsdale. That being said, South Scottsdale is still responsible for cultivating an obnoxious party scene where frosted tips are inexplicably still in vogue, a fact for which I do apologize.
There was an episode of South Park where the goth kids were pissed off at the vampire kids for copying their style. They captured the head vampire kid, put him in a box and decided to ship him to the most horrible place on Earth: Scottsdale.
Love your 80% vs. 100% point at 9:38. I (mike@strongtowns) lived in South Scottsdale for a year and being a 1-car household was really tough. The mixed-use plans for old town look hopeful, and it would be interesting to see an Urban3 study on Scottsdale. Would love to see you do a case study on Tempe! As you know, it's a forward-thinking suburb and could be the most exciting spot in the valley soon. Keep up the great work! -Mike
Tempe is where they're building that ironically named Culdesac community which is actually a mixed use area with apartments. I'm curious how it will do.
Hey Strong Towns, love your work! I too am happy that the Cul-De-Sac development in Tempe is moving forward; that being said, I do think it’s an illustration of how truly strong towns should do more to encourage incremental and local real-estate investments. Not that they should’ve blocked this project of course, but not many developers can afford to buy up a whole block and build a new dense neighborhood from scratch. It would benefit the community more if smaller local construction/rehab partners had worked together to create a car free neighborhood. Hopefully strong towns can start offering more tax credits and other tools to help keep new construction with regional partners; as this will strengthen a metro more than big national players being the only ones making meaningful changes. ❤ Btw, plz tell Abby and Chuck to record another Upzoned already it’s been like a month. ;P
@@JHZech I was very skeptical of this until I learned that over the last 5ish years there has grown a population of people, I think like 50k+, who primarily commute by rail through the various downtowns of the metropolitan area. I really want to live there someday.
I used to live in south Scottsdale now I live in central Tucson the differences really show nowadays every time I go back to Scottsdale I realize just how truly car centric it is
@@javierpalomares1774I also live in Tucson, and I can also attest that it isn’t as car-centric as people think it is. The construction of I-10 leveled a lot of neighborhoods and economically devastated others. That alone was enough for Tucsonans to say enough was enough. Not having freeways everywhere really contributes to Tucson’s sense of community and its “small town” feel.
I lived in Tucson and they did not want to become Phoenix with their freeway system. But they adopted Phoenix's urban planning so it kinda looks like Phoenix (just a much smaller version) minus the freeways. They also have a problem with NIMBYs opposing multi-use development.
The weirdest thing to me about Tucson is that there just seems to be a random allocation of trailer parks throughout the city. I'm absolutely not denigrating anyone who lives in them, of course. But it's odd how they just appear all over the place.
The only problem with the valley's freeway system is that Eugene Pulliam kept us from getting them built sixty years ago when the federal government was paying 90% of the bill, and instead we waited until he was dead and started building them out thirty years ago on our dime
The Phoenix metro area, aka the Valley of the Sun, was planned based on the idea that gasoline would never go over a dollar a gallon and that its famous low humidity would always keep 100-plus temps bearable the way they were in the '60s. That's when Maricopa County had 800,000 people, not the 4 million plus it has today.
Coming from France, i absolutely hated that the public transportation is very scarce in Scottsdale. And that you can't get to a store without walking 2 miles
I live in Tucson, which is actually surprisingly urbanist (although it definitely deserves better wide scale planning reform and the newer parts of town/the suburbs aren't much better than Scottsdale) and I have had to go over to phoinex a few times and it always astonishes me how unlivable and fucking awful it is, despite being so much richer.
You touch on something that I constantly talk about with folks. If you want a better driving experience in your growing city, invest more in walkable communities to take new car demand off the streets and reduce the number of car trips that the average person takes. For most of the USA, being more car light is an achievable goal.
I lived in Phoenix and Scottsdale growing up and left to New England in my twenties. I presently live in a very walkable neighborhood with grocery stores, pharmacy,banking,sub shops, restaurants etc. There is good public transportation. This is why Arizona just can’t bring me back to settle there.
As a European, I am always curious about how all these zoning laws even made it past your constitutional rights. Shouldn't Americans have more liberty to do on their private property as they please? I'm not against zoning laws all together, but it seems ironic that a country that pertains to uphold private property and liberty to such a degree has gone basically totalitarian in this sphere. Also, a lot of the critique on modern American urbanism seems to come from the young urban liberal class who look towards Europe for answers. I get that we do some things right here wich you might want to adopt, but I think that to a large extend you should look into your own past and make right some wrongs that you self inflicted against the spirrit of your great nation. And then maybe add some bike paths:P
What basic rights are being denied by zoning laws? That's the question you're going to have to answer for this thought to gain any traction. And in cities and suburbs across America, citizens demand zoning laws. They don't want the only residential housing to be built right next to industrial factories -- cities are allowed to master plan better than that.
@@jaceallred It is not my question to awnser. But of the little that I know about the sprirrit of your constitution, I am certain that it did not intend for the "public good" to gain so much power over private property. And one of the reasons why you are a constitutional republic and not just a pure democracy is to solve the problem of the tyranny of the majority, so just because people demand things doesn't mean they have the right to them. Also, I am sure you could gain back a lot of liberty in this field while still maintaining laws that keep heavy industry out of school zonesXD
Europeans tend to skip over the obvious when it comes to the United States. It’s enormous. Like I was just in the Netherlands, and the traffic was crazy, they utilize everything so they have trains they have bicycles they have cars they have walking, but it’s half the size of the state of Indiana and has 17 million people in it. The United States is huge. Having a car is pretty much mandatory in this country because everything is far. That’s why we have these small geographic areas of massive amount of people, and then giant swaths of land where there is nothing.
The idea of a city maintaining its "suburban feeling" annoys me so much! I live in a place that’s finally getting more walkability+transport and high density housing, but some people (people who grew up in my city in the 70s and 80s) are mad. I am so ready for an urbanization of the suburbs of my city. Edit: 4:15, that’s the same thing with people in my city Edit 2: 7:35, that’s my city!
If you want walkability and transit then why not just move to an actual city? Then people who like the suburbs can keep their suburban feeling and everybody wins.
@@Novusod This! I don’t want to live in dense housing areas because I don’t want to deal with other people’s living habits, heck it can affect suburban neighborhoods too, but at least there’s more space and lee way for building projects with loud tools. No chance for that in dense housing like cities. City lovers should just move into denser cities instead of forcing reconstruction plans on already established zones
in the first 30s he says that people want to move to Scotsdale and then spends the rest of the video explaining why he doesnt like suburban living. Sounds like all the people who want to move to Scotsdale do like suburban living, so why are you trying to change that? If you change it to dense apartments then the people who did want to live there wont want to anymore.
@@iheartlreoy8134this is what I mean! I’m okay with suburbs, but when it is used by NIMBYs to make it not have any walkability or public transit, that’s where the problem comes!
I would argue Phoenix is an even worse offender of this than Scottsdale when comparing the land area of each city. A city of Phoenix's population should have higher and more numerous skyscrapers at this point, but it chose to annex more land and sprawl throughout the history of it's growth.
@@xtreme242 It's not stopping them from finding that threshold since a skyscraper project called Astra has already been approved that would stand taller than the old Chase Bank building at 535 feet. Midtown area is also far enough away to densify and build higher. Phoenix is not exactly in a San Jose situation where a limit of less than 300 is a hard requirement.
@@gabrielislas8380 ok it’s taller than chase. There is still a limit because they are direct in the flight path. Limit is roughly 500 feet so that building is pushing up against the limit. And chase is only 483 ft.
This video dropped at the perfect time just as The NY Times published an article about Scottdale’s water shortage. The shortage is so bad that you have people skipping showers and eating in paper plates just to avoid using water.
I used to live in tucson, and while I am definitely an advocate for mixed use and multi tenant housing, the apartments in downtown Tucson were just waaaay too expensive. The ones that were affordable were an absolute joke of home that I would imagine even roaches wouldn't want to live in
They really just need to legally allow for more and more to be built. If zoning were natural and just, there is no reason why you could not live a walk-able area for cheaper than a suburb. Arbitrary zoning and Parking minimums are such a gross use of government.
An SRO (essentially a flop house) hotel in San Diego, is raising rent from $800 to $1000 / month. You can't even pay that on Social Security and have enough left to buy food.
I have an acquaintance who lives in southeast Tucson in a tiny studio..and still pays $1000/month. My mortgage for a 3 bedroom house is just a bit more than that. This just goes to show there is a painful affordable housing shortage.
Scottsdale used to have substantially more bus service 14 years ago. Now it has bus shelters and benches where those busses used to go with blue signs that say “no bus service that this location.” Scottsdale people drive and don’t want their taxes wasted on public transit to bring the riff-raff in.
@@anonobot3333 that only happens when there is low frequency of public transport. Have the buses arrive every two minutes, and there'll be less chances of meeting people like that.
Spent a few years growing up in North Scottsdale. Family lived deep in a suburb, only houses and golf courses for miles, mainly inhabited by old people. If I wanted to do anything mom or dad had to drive, or whenever I tried to bike a few miles to get anywhere the boomers would honk at me as if I was supposed to ride through people's yards something because there was no sidewalk. It was extremely isolating, parents were always gone working, I had no car, no friends and ended up spending most of those days alone playing video games indoors.
You literally just described every suburban child in the Midwest upbringing. Sounds like you had crappy parents. I grew up in a very rural area and I had a blast. Riding horses, riding, dirt bikes, bicycles. I feel like the young generation doesn’t know how to socialize. The families that I do know that live in the city don’t let their kids do hardly anything without some kind of supervision like when you’re eight you’re not going to the park with your friends. Too many weirdos out there. In rural areas, you can kind of get away with that.
@@tooltime9260 I’ve been to Paris, been to Netherlands a few times. Well both wonderful places they have hundreds of years of development more than United States has. I think it’s odd that you feel like you’re imprisoned in your house. I’m not sure what the comparison else because in Amsterdam, the houses are right on top of each other. I went to the Dutch Grand Prix and it was a complete mess as far as how they got people in an out. If there was some sort of actual emergency, I can’t even imagine how many casualties there would’ve been. Then we had to walk 2 miles because the city had shut down a area that would not allow taxis are Ubers to go. The lines for the train were extraordinary long. It was a real mess. We still have fun, but we all noticed how incredibly disorganized everything was. As nice as it is to visit Europe, I prefer this country to live. Such a huge diversity in landscape and people. I think Western Europe in the United States are both beautiful places for different reasons, but trying to say that one is better than the other is just personal preference.
When I lived in Old Town I used my car like 80% of the time (I could even walk to work), but now I live in Mesa and I can't go anywhere without my car. Also thank you for explaining how the 101 and 202 are only going to get exponentially worse, what a mess!
damn im rly glad i found ur channel. ive been biking, skating, using public transit to get around phoenix for the last 6 years or so (im 20). grew up about a mile west of encanto park, but ive moved to tempe and gilbert the past couple years. i will say the light rail is amazing *if u live near it*. otherwise u absolutely need a car to have any sort of life in the greater phoenix area
As a Tucson resident, I of course thumb my nose at pretty much the entire Phoenix metro area and we're required to do so by city ordinance. That said, I do feel like not much of Arizona understands walkable compared to my experiences living in the Pacific Northwest. And even up there it's debatable the degree of walkability. The main difference I've noticed is that one might bundle up to walk in 40 degree rainy weather. But almost no one should be walking when it's over 110 out.
This video definitely applies to North Scottsdale, but is really out of date for South Scottsdale. The amount of apartments and large mixed use developments in South Scottsdale over the last few years has been eye-popping. Edit- this came out only a week ago 😅
This suburban sprawl in the US is past the point of no return now. We basically can’t even fix it. It would cost too much and take so long to fix, we’ll all be dead before that happens.
@@412StepUp You are totally right; we WILL all be dead by the time all of this could be fixed. But it still needs to be fixed, and someone has to start the fixing.
I taught in Scottsdale ten years ago. Living in Arizona was part of what made me realize that I hate driving and believe in urbanism. The amount of inequality between North and South Scottsdale--or just Scottsdale in general--is disgusting. I taught in a Title I school that was placed among multi-million dollar homes that held parties with valet parking that was around the corner from a classical school that was built on a garbage dump. I do miss Lolo's Chicken and Waffle and the ice cream shop in Old Town, but that's about it. It was dumb that I felt like I had to drive to go to the Fry's just two blocks away from my apartment complex. This is why I only lasted a year there.
You really should feel dumb over that. There's a difference between can't and won't. It's OK to say you don't want to walk two blocks in this heat. None of us do
@@schmittyconstanzit's not that you can't. It's that the way this city is set up, a 2 block walk could end up being much longer. Also, it is over 100 degrees outside for half of the year. So for many people that two block walk there and back carrying groceries could actually be dangerous. This place sucks.
@@nica2411 I walk 3 times a week ,twice for groceries,once to get water at dispenser,and have done so for 30 years, year-round.Biked to work for 35 years.And yes it's hot 5 months out of the year. If you have medical conditions +/or physical disabilities then 2 blocks would be challenging or impossible. For the average person ,this should be a 12 minute walk. So if you can't walk two blocks I would say you are out of shape.
@@schmittyconstanz good for you. I agree. I personally hike 15 mile canyon trails in northern az. Just saying it is not possible for everyone especially with the oppressive heat. Would be nice if we had some trees but the city just keeps putting concrete everywhere
Imagine living in Phoenix and bitching about the walkability of Scottsdale, as if the entire valley isn't exactly the same. The only places here that are not 100% reliant on owning and using a vehicle to get anywhere are pretty much downtown Phoenix, Old Town Scottsdale, and similar city centers in the other major eastern cities. This entire video is just a hit piece on Scottsdale, because everyone not from Scottsdale loves to shit all over Scottsdale, trust me, I know, I grew up here, well the Phoenix part of Scottsdale, which according to everyone mailing address is the only thing that matters, not what side of the line you live on, so there's that. Here's a short list of all the cities/towns in the greater Phoenix area that fit this exact narrative: Phoenix Scottsdale (Outside of Old Town) Tempe (Anywhere away from the University) Mesa Apache Junction Gilbert Chandler Fountain Hills Ahwatukee Glendale Peoria Goodyear Avondale Surprise Anthem You say this isn't meant to be an attack on the people living in Scottsdale or whatever, but instead of picking somewhere like Surprise that's rapidly expanding with no reasonable planning for public transportation, or Phoenix it self, despite being the 5th largest city in the country with possibly the worst public transportation on the top 5 list. You woke up and decided, know what, I'm just gonna shit on Scottsdale today, because fuck um, that's why. Here are some fun facts to consider: 1. Not everyone wants to live in apartments. 2. Apartments do nothing to increase the walkability of the surrounding area. I live in one, in the Phoenix part of Scottsdale, and have to have a car for everything. You have a valid point about the shit city planning around here, but it's a problem with the whole Valley, not just Scottsdale, so in the future, if you're going to talk about how suburban planning is shit here, maybe make it less about how rich people suck, and for the record they do, and more about the actual problems which are present everywhere here.
I agree with you on the traffic. Its horrendous. North Scottsdale was never planned right. I still have a place in my heart for old town Scottsdale, since I lived there when I was a kid. A certain faction of people who live there are some of the snottiest most superficial in the nation. For the most part its the 40k dollar are year millionaires lol. One of the biggest drawbacks in living there is the traffic on Friday and Saturday nights when you take your life in your own hands as so many people are on alcohol and drugs driving around. There is not enough police on the roads at these times. I talked to police officers and they say the majority of people out driving Friday and Saturday nights are probably impaired. You may say " thats in every city", but believe me drugs and alcohol are very prevalent everywhere there. The police try to take the worst off the roads. If you are from California and go there, you'll think "Whats the big deal here?" Scottsdale does have some fantastic restaurants, golf courses and resorts. The weather is fantastic. The best part I loved about living in South Scottsdale was easy access to anywhere in the valley (suburbia around Phoenix) but you can be on crowded freeways during rush hour. I also loved the access to get out of town. Within minutes your out of the city driving up North in the mountains for out door adventures. I dont think the people there are very friendly as many are very pretentious. Its definitely changed since I was a kid. You'll find the older established generations living there to be the friendliest along with immigrants. Im generalizing here your mileage may vary. Wear your seatbelts when driving in Scottsdale.
My great aunt lives in Scottsdale and I never thought about what it looked like there until now. Great video bro. Watching from Auckland, New Zealand ❤
@Daniel Daniels 2 main arterial roads Scottsdale and Hayden run the entire 30mi which is nice.. My issue is up near the Scottsdale quarter/ Pima crossing area.. with the airport in the middle .. it's a cluster fuck. I do deliveries here so I get around logistically
Yes, Scottsdale is car centric as almost all suburbs are. But they do have one the more walkable and happening cores in Old Town of any suburb I have ever been to. So can’t say they’ve done everything wrong.
He never mentioned our "greenbelts"which run N and S for miles .No cars,people walk ,bike or skateboard.Was really surprised that he was ignorant of the greenbelt
@@schmittyconstanz surprised he missed that too. Plus there’s the paths along the Arizona and Cross-cut canals and many very bikeable back streets like 74th Street and Arabian Trail. I get the feeling he really hasn’t explored Scottsdale much and just has a hatred for single family homes, which is what most Arizonans prefer to live in.
The green belt has no use beyond recreation, and it’s actually pretty dangerous do to the lack of a cycling culture, and it’s slippery sidewalk with fun twisty corners that people take too fast for their abilities not grippy asphalt.
If this is a place for rich people, why would they want to live close to each other? We are not talking about NYC, we talking about a desert area that has plenty of space to grow.
yeah theres room to grow but that growth is out in places like Eastmark, Buckeye, estrella mountain. not everyone wants to live that far out and the room for single family detached developments in scottsdale, phoenix, and mesa is running out or depleted
I had a relative that moved to a remote suburb in order to get a large home on 3 acres. They put some money into it and built a pool and man cave. I have to say, it is nice to visit. When they visit us, they would complain about the traffic in our dense neighborhood. I will admit, we do have traffic, but I also have 4 supermarkets within 2 miles, and countless other stores and restaurants near by. I do many errands by bike or foot. I have friends in near by that I visit by foot. I do hit traffic when I need to drive, which turns a 2 mile drive into 8-12 minutes. When I visit my relatives, I do not hit any traffic, but the nearest supermarket is 8 miles away. If that supermarket does not have what you need, the next options are even further, and forget about decent shops and restaurants. You often have to drive into a dense neighborhood to go out. There are no alternatives to taking the car as either. When I try to point out that they sit in their cars more than I do, they keep coming back to the traffic as a big negative to living in dense areas. How we are conditioned to live is a very emotional subject which can evade rational thought.
Don't forget suburbanites having to drive into the nearest city to enjoy cultural amenities. Concerts, professional sports venues, cultural festivals. Small cities can have these, larger cities most certainly have these. Even small compact towns have these. Suburban housing developments effectively have none of this. Where would it be, any event would be strangled by traffic where as an urban environment means people can park further out and walk / take the bus or simply live nearby these events.
I like very much everything you said and what these commentators have written below. There are a lot of us who feel the same way who are out there, but what are the organizations that we can come together in to make our voices heard? Most of the ones I have contacted want a big fee to join and I do not want to spend a lot of money for what I cannot be sure is what I want to support and will have a big effect. There are too many NIMBYs out there and they are difficult to counter.
I compared my city's (Minneapolis) comprehesive plan to Scottsdale's. It seems all Scottsdale wants to do is keep buisness as usual with minor improvements here and there. The next 30 years is already looking pretty rough for the American Southwest with climate change becoming climate reality. Never mind that current infrastructure will be at the end of its life in 2050. Unless something radically changes I can see cities like Scottsdale being completely unprepared for the future.
@@mikeyreza transportation is also a major issue, ducey vetoed prop 400 and none of these cities will be capable of handling 10 million people by 2050. yes Tempe is doing good but we're tiny and surrounded by sprawling car dependent giants
@2:58 all those glass highrises are in Phoenix. The west side of Scottsdale road is Phoenix, the east side is Scottsdale. The stark contrast is because Scottsdale has a height limit on buildings (usually 2 stories) so people from all over the town can enjoy the views of the mountains. The people of Scottsdale also approved a sales tax to buy open space - 25,000 acres in Northeast Scottsdale for their residents to hike, mountain bike, horse ride. None of that can be build on. They don't want an urban high density, high rise environment that brings crime, homelessness, and other dense urban problems. This keeps their property values and quality of life high. People there WANT to live away from "thinks" he's describing because the "things" they want are actually close by. Lots of parks with soccer fields and baseball diamonds, community pools, high end smaller shopping centers and restaurants, movie theaters. Urban "planners" think this is a "problem" because you can't "walk" to it. You can safely bike to most of it, and with electric bikes, it makes it even easier. As for your 4 story apartment buildings with 1000 people and cars all on 4 acres, you think that will have LESS cars than 16 homes on a quarter acre each? You even said "every single person needs a car". That includes those in 4 story apartment buildings. Give me a break. People live in Scottsdale EXACTLY because it's not Tempe or Phoenix. If they wanted walking/density/crime they can move there.
As a person from north Scottsdale, I can see it going in the right direction in my own eyes. Density is coming here and I believe it will force the city’s hand into doing something about it. I wouldn’t be surprised if we see light rail in the next 10 years. Not to mention we have incredible biking infrastructure in place already.
This is true for the US in general. It's the zoning laws. In the UK, businesses and residences are interspersed with lots of mass transit. You really don't need a car there. In the US, it would be hell to not have one.
It’s absolutely absurd to watch these urbanism contents from Europe. Everybody looked at me like I’m a weirdo just because I was walking 500m in one one of the steets in the US😅
One salient point to make regarding sprawl = traffic that is missing here, is that it isn't just mode share and population numbers that contribute to vehicles on the road, it is also distance traveled. One driver traveling 10 miles contributes as much to traffic as ten drivers each driving a mile. So everyone having to drive themselves everywhere for 100% of trips is more digestable when those trips are short, which can be aided by dense housing located near jobs and retail. 1,000 people living in an apartment building driving a 1/4-mile away to the grocery store impacts traffic far less than 100 people living in suburban sprawl an average of 5 miles from the nearest grocery store. The first contributes 250 vehicle-miles (1,000 * 0.25), whereas the second contributes 500 vehicles miles (100 * 5).
@@Lildizzle420 no, I'm a full time forklift operator. But on my days off I like to hang out in old town and have a lot of friends there from the years I worked at Gilligan's. When I'm there I usually park in one place and then walk in the area because it's walkable.
Tempes far closer to a hell scape due to the amount of meth addicts there, my friends and I used to jump them for fun back in my college days. Nice to retire to Scottsdale though
The real problem in Scottsdale is water. There is not enough of it. The population really cannot grow, Scottsdale never had the agricultural water to relocate to residential uses. The water in the canal in the photo image, that is all allocated and used, already The Colorado River Compact, does not provide for unlimited water to Arizona. The problem is not roads and cars, it is water. There just is not enough of it. Ask the folks in Rio Verde which Scottsdale no longer provides water to, due to the shortages.
Bravo! Sounds like Scottsdale has a problem with NIMBYs. I did visit Old Town when I was in Phoenix and I enjoyed it but of course had to Uber back and forth because there was no easy way to get there by transit.
@@grahamturner2640 Thanks. I'll keep that in mind next time I visit. I was staying right in midtown so I did have light rail access and used it quite a bit!
Routes 50, 41, and 29 all connect old town Scottsdale and the Scottsdale Trolly with midtown Phoenix. Not all busses on those three routes go that far East, though. Most people in Phoenix and Scottsdale prefer to drive.
I’ve biked in south Scottsdale for years, and I wish that there were more bike paths and other stuff, and it is not a fun time biking on the stroads, I tell you
@@danieldaniels7571 I can see you don't have any experience so I will explain it to you. It's because the greenbelt doesn't actually go anywhere important. you can't bike to the grocery store, you can't bike to the gym with out stroads. try it yourself
Learning more and more about other US cities makes me so glad I live in NYC and can literally walk for 5 minutes to get to almost any store within my neighbourhood.
Born n Raised n Queens, NY, best thing I ever did was leave! Quality of life n NYC is TRASH! I made 6figs there n lived comfortably but no matter how u live, it's just miserable there and your always n some sort of "survival mode"! And as the previous comment stated, the crime is INSANE comparative to other cities! Who cares about having to drive when your life has 10X better quality!!
@@hajde8128 WOW! I'm lying because I didn't disclose neighborhoods I grew up in?? I swear having conversations is impossible nowadays....what neighborhood I come from IN NYC wasn't even the point! You just had nothing intelligent to say n response so why not just say nothing🤦🏾♂️🤦🏾♂️ Probably not even a Native, smfh
I was in Scottsdale during an Arizona vacation in 1983, and rode a sort of train that took people around a few adjoining shopping centers. This was several linked passenger cars with about 4 to 6 seats each (it was actually pulled by a motor vehicle and traveled on pavement, but worked like a train). The idea was, you didn't have to drive or walk from one shipping center to another, and the merchants jointly funded this service. It prompted people to do more shopping in that district, and - of course - it kept people's cars parked rather than on the busy commercial streets during their transit from one center to another. IOW, this was, -- dare I say it to the Scottsdale mindset -- _MASS TRANSIT._ And it was funded the same way we fund government services, by each interested party who receives its benefits pitching their money in, rather than each one buying their own. But let us not call that the dreaded word _taxes._ I enjoyed the service and came away thinking, Scottsdale (and the Valley of the Sun overall), why can't you see the obvious; mass transit is good for you. Now expand this itty bitty system way beyond these shopping centers.
Keep in mind the updated General Plan is the third version. The last two updates failed with the voters since it included more density and opponents ran pretty heavy campaigns against it. They may be a vocal minority of all Scottsdale residents, but those are the people who showed up to vote. Similarly, a small but loud group oppose anything that doesn't give them wider roads with more lanes for driving. If people want more ways to travel than driving (whether it be going car light or just have more ways to walk and bike) and more housing options than large houses or "luxury" apartments, they need to be just as vocal to city leaders as the other people. There are a lot of efforts to make these changes but it requires vocal support.
What are your thoughts on Verrado? My husband and I loved the idea but they really lack the business structures in the center that would make it thrive on its own as a small town. Would love your take!
Ok born and raised here in Phoenix and I do construction. I have done work at the Four Seasons and EVERYTHING was done wrong. EVERYTHING! The sewage is a NIGHTMARE and as a framer I have seen things that will make your brain hurt. Well maybe not yours, you are obviously reporting all this so yea I %100 agree with all this. Subscribed so continue Stay Awesome.
Arizona, California and some of these other warmers states (sun wise) could really learn from Mediterranean countries that build 4 story buildings that shade the streets and sidewalks. Madrid is scorching in the Summer, just like Malta, but their infrastructure was built pre-cars and it makes more sense. The shade keeps the city bearable in the scorching months. The damn wide roads in the US create many issues...
No we're the fifth largest(suck it Philly) and have been for at least a decade and we didn't just pop in. The entire area has been among the fastest growing since the 90's
Oh hey, it's my city! Yeah Thomas, you pretty much nailed it with this one. Between the reluctance to accommodate growth, an inherently backwards and unaffordable zoning code, and the inevitable baby boomer die-off, this place is truly a disaster in the making. Definitely trying to be out of here by the time that happens. One additional complaint of mine that you did miss: Life in Scottsdale is boring as fuck. Though I suppose in a way that's just an inevitable consequence of all its issues stated in the video. Great stuff!
It must be boring because there’s no activities that are available that you like to do. Literally hundreds of miles of trails for offloading, horseback riding, hiking there are golf courses everywhere. If bowling is your thing then yeah you’re probably in the wrong place. 😂.
@@thatcarlifeR8 I enjoy hiking, but the problem is that it gets so hot here that for half of the year you can't go on a hike without being at risk for heat stroke. Many people, mostly out of state/country tourists who are not aware of the health risks, pass out or even die here every summer. Same goes for golfing and horseback riding. This city is simply built for residents to stay indoors for 6 months at a time. It's cruel and unliveable. And before someone comes in here with the "oh but it gets super cold in other cities, that's the same thing" rhetoric, not it's really not. Unless you live in Barrow, Alaska, I highly doubt you've ever heard of someone catching hypothermia on a walk to the grocery store, because that's the equivalent of the extreme climate we have here.
@@GeorgeOneEleven i used to live in Wisconsin. I can tell you that way more people die of cold exposure than heat exposure. And you just do different activities. In the winter time there we would ski or ride snowmobile’s or go tubing. And here in the summertime I live in North Scottsdale, if I want to play golf I go early in the morning and I’ve learned how to stay cool with shade, Always keeping a damp towel or cloth over my head. I also on a construction company so it’s really kind of BS to say that nothing happens in the summer because we work all summer long outside and we do just fine. You have to take more breaks productivity goes down water consumption goes up but if you force yourself in the heat for a couple of weeks and adapt, you’re pretty much fine. But you’re right people come here from other places and I have to warn them upfront because they’re never hydrated properly. You don’t realize you’re dehydrated because the air is so dry that you don’t realize you’re sweating when you are. I don’t go hiking in the summertime at all because I think that’s kind of just dangerous in general. The snakes are way more active in the summer. I’ve been in Arizona now for 24 years and you could never get me to move back to the cold. One thing that you glossed over in these super populated, cold-weather cities, driving on icy roads. We don’t have that problem.
@@thatcarlifeR8 I mean I get what you're saying but you're implicitly proving my point here. Needing to start work at 6am or having to keep a damp cloth on your head in order to not pass out, to me, does not qualify a place as liveable. That would be like needing to wear a heated blanket and plan your outside activities to be midday simply to survive in a cold climate. And frankly, if one of your biggest gripes with living in Wisconsin was having to drive on icy roads, then it sounds like it wasn't too bad of a time there all things considered.
Hey Thomas, you should do another video examining the Culdesac development in Tempe and it’s walkability characteristics, what it has to offer different to residents, etc. It would be a good compare and contrast case study to this video
The greater Phoenix area is way worse than Scottsdale. Scottsdale builds large apartment buildings, they’re just expensive. And lack of urban density is nice to have everyone knows it.
I'll start from my independent expertise, I analyze data be it from Physics, Chemistry, Medicine, Crime,... anything. I saw studies you mention and the glaring problem with them are faulty metrics. I will not go into Math but same type of misuse for a purpose is done there as in infamous "happiest countries in the World" "studies" where you find that among "happiest countries" are ones with top rated suicide rates and top chemical abuse numbers. But by the underlying ideology, they MUST be the happiest so let's make metrics to make them so. Same here. No, "walkable" cities are NOT the most desirable or successful. Look at the actual experimental cases of real life happening. Are there suburban cities that are going bankrupt, declining in population and rising in crime? Are there truckload of "walkable" mega-urban cities that are falling or have already fallen? The latter is the trend. Pile skyscrapers up and make streets un-drivable making centers not passable but by bike.... and you get NYC with millions of empty store fronts, rising crime, dirt and insolvency but for sky high taxation. And on that note I'll also nitpick your particular statement about public transport - NO it NEVER makes money, it is endless money pit, just as in NYC where they steal toll money from drivers to patch mass transit endless losses.
Good Analysis bro, ive been working in scottsdale as an electrician and PE and for the last 6 years there has been a crazy rise in apartment building. Also it cracks me up bc there is public transit but only in Old town bc they make it look like a fancy purple which is literally a metro bus. Also seeing the comments I agree south scottsdale is night and day to north scottsdale especially when you get closer to the reservations areas reaching the 202.
Seems to me there are tons and tons on new apartments going up everywhere in N. Scottsdale. Mega Apartments and condos. The video might be more persuasive if you got the numbers/facts on what has been built. Quite easily available.
They removed a huge number of businesses from south Scottsdale, and then built a huge number of Condos. So South Scottsdale has become a lot tougher to live at in that area.
Where I live in the northeast, the cities don't own the suburbs. They are SEPARATE jurisdictions and they are financed by the commercial centers in those suburban towns. They are completely separate from the cities.
I wonder if there are any other cities in the valley that are starkly split in the way Tempe and Scottsdale are (north Tempe is a giant college town, while south Tempe might as well be a part of Chandler).
Take a look at how disgusting Houston and Dallas Texas is from an urban planning perspective...it's time for states to give developers less power to just cement their greedy will into the foundational core of the nature of the "Greater City." Land must be protected..... new, large, partitioned cities must be created.
I live in north Scottsdale and personally like the press out nature. I see all of your points but living further away from things is nice. Not excited to see traffic increase though.
Hi Thomas, I liked your video! Suggestion: please include links to sources - especially for the charts, graphics, etc. Also, tried to find the source of the urban vs sub urban cost per household image, but found that the website it links to is not the right website. Maybe the domain got bought!
My favorite part of Scottsdale is Miller Road/76th St. Between camelback and indian school rd. Lots of multi unit housing, apartments, etc. within a reasonable walking distance of two grocery stores, some restaurants, a department store, and even sort of close to downtown
I literally have no idea how we will ever fix the travesty of the current American suburb. Yeah, we need electric cars but it’s still so damn car dependent. Just found your channel and subscribed! Keep up the good work!
Admittedly, I'm not knowledgeable on this topic at all. A local city near me Santa Ana CA, seems to accomplish everything you are suggesting to an arguably extreme degree. Public transportation, shopping centers, walkable parts of the city, 4 story apartment complexes.. and yet, Santa Ana is a shithole.. plain and simple. Traffic is horrendous, far far worse than anywhere in or near Scottsdale, crime rate is very high, homelessness is through the roof. It's hard for people like me to understand WHY your suggestions are correct, when my entire life I've observed the EXACT opposite of everything you're saying. Maybe I missed something.
I grew up in Scottsdale I got here in 1965 , my parents live in south Scottsdale, they live on a Cul-de-sac of the eight homes on it five are owned by investors, renting them out as ABBs all short term. They have people partying around them constantly. It’s a joke they can’t even enjoy their own backyard. The traffic in Scottsdale is horrendous. There isn’t any affordable housing because the same people building custom homes are building luxury apartments. At 1500 bucks a month rent, you have to have a huge income to be able to afford a down payment on a house. Maybe that’s the plan, in a generation or two you’ll be renting a apartment or a house from a NY investment company and they are making money on both ends.
I don't care how walkable you make Scottsdale or any city in a desert, no one is going to be walking, cycling etc. to the store, restaurant, work etc 5 to 6 months out of the year here.
I live in Tucson which is a few degrees cooler than Scottsdale, and in the summer I bike to work every day (it's not too hot early in the morning or after the sun sets so I'll often stay out before I go home). If I do have to ride in 100-110 degrees, I hate my life for 15 minutes and then cool off in the AC - bike infrastructure is still worth it here even at the worst of times.
i have a feeling these growing car oriented cities will meet the same fate as places like detroit. when the consequences of suburbia finally catch up with them, they will leave and the environment will become blighted, while places like new york and chicago will continue to chug along steadily
@@danieldaniels7571 that kind of naivety could be dangerous for many reasons, I never though Phoenix would have "the zone" when I moved here 10 years ago that just didn't exist at all
Probably a silly question, but to what extent did you check that It wasn't just commercial land being a net tax positive and residential land being a net tax drain?
Arizona has "state-shared revenues" that make a city growing in population financially worthwhile. I'm pretty sure that's how Mesa exists as a bedroom community with practically no city property tax without having gone bankrupt eons ago--it's continued to add population.
Bro the same problem is happening north in Prescott Valley Arizona. I’d love to see a video on that town! They’ve tried building 6 story buildings but the residents get so mad and complain and a massive 6 story apartment complex got burnt down during construction due to an arsonist.
Your last point was great, being for more walkable cities does not mean we are anti car. Realistically I need my car to get to work during the heat in California but I still use public transportation on the weekends. not to mention, things like trees and green space help cool down the area.
American suburbs are like the Ferrari or Rolls-Royce of urbanism. Yes, it's nice to drive, but either you have enough money for gas and maintenance or you will go bankrupt. Why would anyone feel the "right" to own one of those cars and think someone else has to pay for them? Yet, there are people who feel they have the "right" to live in those suburbs, have a big detached house, a huge lawn, huge roads where the can drive their cars every day, and have someone else to foot the bill.
I love Arizona. I hate the car centric urban environment that is maricopa county. We are #5 in us cities. Stop building highways and houses, build trains and apartments. Stop becoming east LA it’s annoying
This is all by design not coincidence. Developers do this in TX, FL, & CA as well. The purpose is to keep poor people OUT of the suburb, the undesirables. There are million dollar minimum priced HOA's in FL & TX that have no sidewalks. There are entire suburbs with few sidewalks. If you can't afford a car, you don't belong in their town. They don't want bike friendly or pedestrian friendly cities, because poor people could come in to their city & blend in. They only want the "right" people & their suburb/HOA, & if you are walking for any reason, you aren't right. This is purposeful, not an over sight or lack of planning. Urban hipsters want to move to some of these places, but ask why so unfriendly to peds & bicyclists? It's to keep those people out.
Here in Prescott Valley, you can't throw a ping pong ball without hitting a duplex. I don't know what difference it makes, unless you are trying to buy a regular home, but facts are facts. Another weird thing about PV is almost every rental property is managed by a real estate agent or management company. We have to drive to ANY destination, however they are building a shitload of apartment complexes now... which I assume is because a rental property is only available for 1 maybe 2 days before it's gone. What this means, I don't know, but I'm just trying to help you with the algorithm thingamajiggy. I miss the 24hr availability of things down in the valley- but people around here don't have a need for house keys and other such jewelry. Truly, it's a pretty simple life we live up here.
Whenever you are in your truck stuck in traffic, complain about yourself being part of the traffic problem. Then, complain about your city not creating alternatives.
This could now also be the perfect descriptor for Queen Creek, AZ. What was once a sleepy farm community has transformed into a cesspool of apartment complexes and lifted trucks that have never seen off-road.
If you think those people in the apartments don’ have cars, you are wrong. That brings in more and more people making us congested like SF, NYC, etc! You like that but most people that live here do not want to live in places like that.
Part of the reason cities are associated with being poor is that cities are able to actually function while being full of working class residents. Suburbs can't really do that.
I'm a phoenix native, live in uptown but drive to old Town for work and God is it annoying getting into and out of old Town every day. Especially during the season.
