Scratch Pattern of Coarse Diamond Stones (Super Vitrified, DMT, Venev, WorkSharp) 

Nice, glad you’re getting good use out of them

Glad to hear it! Lots more to come with these types of photos!

Glad it eases the shift! Now I have an actual reason for them coming out at midnight!

Good eye! The DMT was the first one I used and I did a few burr reducing strokes. The rest I said screw it because that wasn’t my focus so they’re 100% burred up

I ain’t here to waste anyones time! 😆

She’s a sloppy, muddy gal but she treats ya right!

They really are the best for the dollar in diamond abrasives! I've heard that the naniwa resin diamond stones have even better consistency, but they are a lot more expensive.

@@EngineersPerspective701 Actually I have the Naniwa resin bonded diamond stones and they just load up so fast and require constant dressing, they also don't cut as fast as equivalent grit Naniwa Pro stones on carbon steels or stuff like SG2. I'm sure it's different with the super high carbide PM steels but honestly I was very let down. I really need to get some of the super vitrifieds from Triple B though

@@thecookseye7383 carbon steels or sg2? Bro these are vastly different things. R2 is freaking hard stainless steel that skates over a lot of stuff. Carbon steels even at 63+ hrc you can brick them till they won't cut even paper and get them sharp as a mf again with literally 3 minutes and a 12k shapton pro. That's how easily the stuff sharpens up because it has no wear resistance what so ever, beyond whatever is afforded by hardness ofc. That's how I maintain my white steel knives, one single high grit stone, anywhere from 5k-12k depending. half a dozen strokes on either side then alternate to finish up. Good luck trying that with R2. I only use shapton glass for stuff like R2 and even then you gotta use lower grits. If you take dull R2 to something like a shapton glass 8k, which is a very fast cutting stone that will chew through carbon steels like nothing, the R2 skates on it and it takes a while. You gotta use lower grits. Hopefully no one comments about fatigued steel and yadda yadda, yeah I understand. I'm making a point here.

Thanks! Nice bit of info!

@@EngineersPerspective701 He's also super generous with his time. Have you used Shapton Pro ..? How'd they compare to Venev / Triple B..? (not that it matters as there's no more Triple B to be found). How does a Resin Bonded Diamond Venev compare to their cBN..? Any chance you might do some comparatives on that ..? The difference between a 320 diamond plate vs shapton pro is massive. As far as profiling grits ... have you messed with "Congress Tools" ..? They're supposed to be both cheap and good. (So I guess they arrive slow to satisfy the good fast and cheap trifecta)

Thanks man! Glad that one is favorite!

Lol, glad it tickled your fancy!

Get me a kershaw link every year for a decade almost! The super vit is worth it for ne but the Venevs are great stones for sure and I still use them lots

I’ve seen them on Gritomatic but never tried them. My impression was that they would probably be more similar to the Venevs and Naniwa resin stones while probably being closer in quality to the Naniwas. Probably one of the best choices for a high end diamond abrasives when a person doesn’t want to spend super vit prices or can’t get one.

@@EngineersPerspective701 It seems Jende is also on the resin-diamond bandwagon. Venev is directly effected by the Russian sanctions, much is sold out. I was looking through the McMaster carr catalog and found they sell both artificial and natural diamond compounds and slurrys, claiming the natural cut faster. I wonder if the difference is similar to the mono vs poly crystalline deal. And with the price differences between these stones are they all different types of diamond....

Please do and share! The venevs definitely clog up, I like to use an 800grit nagura to clean them up but that does wear down the stone reducing the life. I estimate I'll get at least 5yrs of life out of them though so not too worried!

@@EngineersPerspective701 I use mine quite a bit, sharpening semi professionally (its only about half of my usual income), and its held up better than my traditional alumina, and Sic based stones as well as my diamond plates. So it definitely does have a long life, even with cleaning with a nagura. I should really get a super vitrified stone eventually though. But the venev I have are holding up super well considering they're my go to stones, and I sharpen waaay more than a normal person ever would.

Thank you!

Worth it though!

It’s funny because I shot Maxamet and S110V videos but there are some issues with how the video itself turned out! Not sure if I’ll publish them or not!

@@EngineersPerspective701 That would be awesome. I hope it turns out well

The value proposition of stones is difficult for a lot of people so I get it! I went a looong time on plates but if you can swing it I’d really recommend the 240F/400F Venev or a sharpening system!

@@EngineersPerspective701 Kind of an odd question but I have both a 150 grit and 240 grit Venev stones for a Hapstone R1 for forming edges/apex. However, I mainly use Chosera stones from 600 grit to 5000 grit (pretty much all the stones between these two grits). I think this combo seems to work okay but if I wanted a good mirror finish, what Venev stone should I use before hopping over to the 600 grit Chosera so I can avoid polishing the deep scratches I get from the 240 Venev?

@@EvilWiffles so you’re going for perfect mirror edges right? Note that I’m not an expert in that process! The easy answer would be the Chosera 400. Supposed to have a great finish for its grit rating and cuts like a quality 400 ceramic stone should. I would also think about the Venev 400F but I do feel like it’ll leave stray scratches and it probably won’t remove them any faster than the Chosera 600 but I can’t say for certain.

@@EngineersPerspective701 Well, I bought more Venev stones up to f1200. I don't regret it, they are fantastic stones! I should have known Chosera's weren't really a good choice for 20cv and the likes because I've always felt that my edges didn't really last long. I use either my Hapstone or I freehand sharpen on these stones but I feel like my edges tend to last longer when sharpened on Venev. I don't regret my Chosera kit because they are still really great stones for my carbon steel knives.

@@EvilWiffles the performance of diamond edges is the real deal man! That’s awesome you went for it and have been seeing that improvement

Hear lots of good things about the atomas. I essentially skipped over them in the jump up from the DMTs and haven’t circled back yet. Maybe one day!

Possible probably but as a cost saving measure you are not coming out ahead. There is a lot that goes into it, much of which I’m not privy to albeit. If you’d like to attempt designing your own stone then hey the world is your oyster! I’d recommend looking at articles and papers on relevant material sciences

Good question! Just to be up front, I’ve only ever fully worn out one DMT coarse. And both plates shown have probably given 70% of their life. That said it’s mostly based on speed because that’s what I use the coarse for. When it takes a lot longer to bring up a burr or reprofile I’m ready to retire it. The finer grits depend on how they’re doing removing the previous grit scratches. Never thought about using the 300 for a 600 but I think it would mostly work! Might have a few stray big scratches

@@EngineersPerspective701 how much pressure as far as your 'feel' do you typically use when using the dmt's? such as more or less pressure than the weight of the blade, a pound or two, heavy, etc.

@@bjornegan6421 you do not want to bear down on DMTs it will wear them out quickly

@@TylrVncnt Thank you. I'm trying to get a grasp of how much pressure would be too much.

Probably the 240F. I haven't tried anything lower grit from Venev so possibly the next one down the line, 180F?, could be closer in speed but the 240F is very close for finish as is.

Yeah the 240f should equal somewhere around 350ish jis grit roughly.

Unfortunately I don’t know. I’d think they’d be inclined to go for monocrystaline with a stone but I can’t say for sure

Yeah I’d say you’re right! The 240F has their abrasive binder instead of the OCB in the higher grits. Unsure how much it contributes though comparing it to the super vitrified. The Venev may have been slightly better then the Super Vit so maybe that’s why

Super vitrified doesn’t dish, doesn’t load. It’s basically a miracle stone! Go watch triple B’s videos too. My 400 has darkened up after a year of use and I may use the included alumina cleaning stone but it’s still flat and cuts like a DMT coarse.

@@EngineersPerspective701 hah I wish I knew this before I bought venev and DMT. Thanks!

@@gmuk101 DMT and venev are still good, especially the latter but the super vitrified are hands down the best and everything people say they are. It's honestly amazing. Depending on how much sharpening you do they last substantially longer than the plates and longer than the venevs, not sure how much, so they can have a good economic payback too if you're a power user like that

I forget what I had calculated but I believe it was on the order of 5yrs if you use them 2-3 times per week and use a nagura to flatten and clean them. Great bargain still!

Definitely a very expensive stone but hands down the best that’s out there. Would agree that the Venev is the choice most will go with and be very satisfied. Honestly high volume sharpeners are really the ones that this stone is meant for and that get very high value from its performance

Super vit don’t dish. They will load up over very long periods of time. I used the 400 for a year before using the included cleaning stone.

You missed it in the video man. The stone isn't related to the cleanliness of the edge. I originally was going to deburr for all but I figured it wasn't worth the time. Would have saved me this comment though

Yes for the plates and no for the Super Vit and Venev. The latter two use naguras or SiC powder on a glass plate

@@EngineersPerspective701 Can a cheap aluminum oxide stone be sufficient enough

@@tompossessed1729 Possibly for the Venev but honestly nagura stones are only $8-15 so I’d still push that way. The Super Vit comes with its own super high purity alumina nagura for cleaning

@@EngineersPerspective701 finally question how much was the dmt plate because I usually hear plates cuts faster then resin bounded stones due to them being used to flated stones

@@tompossessed1729 For cut speed, it comes down to grit rating. The DMT coarse is usually around $40-50 for the 3"x8" plate. A Venev 240F cuts a little slower than the DMT but close as long the Venev isn't all loaded up. You could get a lower grit Venev to cut faster than the DMT and probably still have a better scratch pattern

Wrong post. Sorry

@@didodonev8799 😆

The DMTs are definitely a level of quality at a price point but I think worth it still for someone wanting to get into diamond abrasives. Not ideal for perfect finish but a guy can get insane edges with enough care and attention given. Really the upgrade to me is the Venev stones. Still not perfect scratch pattern but WAY better than any plate.

@@EngineersPerspective701 I've seen people talk about them online but I've never seen or touched one. I do have a naniwa diamond finishing stone for my zdp knives. That thing is nothing like a plate, obviously. DMT sells an 8k plate but I put my glasses on and read the fine print. That's a no go from me.

@@jeffhicks8428 the Venevs are a great compromise from the Naniwa resin bonded diamond stones for the performance to price. But I do believe the Naniwas are overall better stones. hard pass on the DMT 8K for sure.

I’ve gotten many sick edges from my DMTs

Very affordable and popular so yes! I think that would be a great idea! Any preference on your end? I think I’d be looking for at the India myself

@@EngineersPerspective701 We can get the crystolone here at a good price but I see you have a huge selection of Silicone Carbide stones, not here tho. I would have bought the crystolone If I had a really hard steel , that thing is tempting me as a reprofiling stone. If you buy it and review it on a hard steel it would be very interesting , you have a " technical " eye to it,helped me a lot about burr. I am more of a " sensation" type of guy .

@@dimmacommunication I’ll definitely look at getting one! Sensation/feel is key I believe for good results but the trick is developing what feelings are “correct”. For that I like all this testing and analyzing to translate what I’m feeling to results!

India is just a hard bond aluminum oxide that is pre-soaked with oil, good for a lot of things but it wont do well on harder tungsten and vanadium steels. The Crystolon can handle most steels and although a bit coarse and scratchy in normal use it can be manipulated to get a somewhat finer grain size then its base grit would indicate. Use a second fine crystolon sort of like a nagura is used to get mud with a traditional Japanese stone, because of the hard bond and fracturing nature of SiC. Be sure to use a very light petroleum oil with those, like iso15 [ saybolt or sus70 ] or even better iso10 if you can find it economically. The lightest baby oil is usually iso15 if you can put up with the perfume; also some cutting board white mineral oil. You could mix a super thin penetrating oil or gun oil with a bit of thicker oil if needed. (water is about iso1, #2 diesel fuel is about iso3, and motor oils trend around iso 32-150) Just don't use edible fats like canola, they gum up after a while and then need a long soak and brushing in kerosene or gasoline.

There is no functional single micron to grit rating that is universal. Just because some organization says that’s the standard, other countries, companies, standards organizations may have their own. Three stone companies can have the same micron abrasive but they all leave a different finish and edge depending on the specific abrasive they have manufactured, binder, etc. The chart is an attempt to normalize all those variables based on finish from each stone.

@@EngineersPerspective701 if that were the case then there would be absolutely no use for a grit rating and it would be a case of " here try this paper/stone it's a little bit more scratchy than that one", I'm guessing you're one of these that believe that mono-crystalline diamond coatings are superior to poly-crystalline just because the advertising says so.

@@jasoncampbell6222 you’re absolutely right, grit ratings are somewhat of a suggestion or indicator where they will land in terms of finish and cutting speed. What grit rating are you using? ANSI, JIS, FEPA-F, G0ST? A 3000 JIS is not the same as a 3000 ANSI is definitely not the same as 3000F FEPA. And these are just ratings that do not take into account how the abrasive particles are made, classified and blind together that makes a noticeable difference. Even two different lines of stones within the same company that are both JIS rated like at Naniwa may not perfectly correlate to each other. You can’t directly compare their pro/chosera line to the super stone line. They won’t line up if you use the same “rated” grit on the same knife. This is what makes trying out new stones so much fun and an awesome rabbit hole to go down!

Different strokes for different folks. Depends on what exactly you’re looking for

@@EngineersPerspective701 True. Bang for your buck is what I’m always looking for. That’s why I was able to retire at 60.

​@Chance-ry1hq depends what your bang for your buck translates too. In my shop a plate like that lasts a day if that. And we don't use pressure either.