Screwdrivers 101 

I Build It how about a hammer 101? I personally have no clue other than claw hammers. thanks for your time.

I like this sort of video! More knowledge is always useful.

I already did one on hammers: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-3W4JpmZIprs.html But should do an update :D

I think in Europe the most popular screws that people at home use to put things together are phillips head, hex socket or allen (thanks to ikea), and slotted. Torx is mostly used by manufacturers and I think also by construction workers who need more torque.

I also support the idea. Maybe call it "Tool bits" - short maybe less than 3 min? Maybe something that includes what it's called and a 'best use for it' scenario? Would be awesome.

Spot on. In Dutch they are called 'flat screwdriver'. Be it faulty or not, everyone knows what they are and it's universally used. So, flat they are :) English is not alone in having words that mean something totally different from what they originally meant. In Belgium, we have words like 'geweldig', which literally translated would be 'violence-like'. It is used like great or fantastic. We also have several examples of brand names becoming the universal name of all similar products. We don't write with a ballpoint, but a bic. Need a hex key? Get me an inbus. Fuel-fed lighter? A zippo. Want to have a large pocket light? Give me the maglite. Sometimes we give names by how things look. Like the flat screwdriver. Traffic lights are called red lights (because you see them longer being red?). One of the nicest of them all: a pedestrian crossing is called a zebra path.

4 years of working at a hardware store I've only heard a slotted screwdriver called a "standard" once and was fairly confused by it. I assumed the customer meant a #2 phillips which aggravated him.

+xlrxlr Was the customer named John Heisz by any chance? ;-)

I vote that we relax things even further and set one word to mean everything in the current language. I recommend that word be "klop", since I'm pretty sure it's not in use at the moment. Cool thing is it has the letter "k", which is a very neat letter, and the word itself can be emphasized easily in various ways to mean different things.

I Build It Well, actually "klop" means knock in Dutch!

No kidding. How many people are going to understand if you say "pass me the standard?" It makes sense historically but now it just sounds really vague

bluebarnworkshop the problem with that is it doesn't differentiate between Phillips and Pozidriv

In Germany the only names of these are "Kreuz" and "Schlitz", translating to "cross" and "slot" in english. I don't see why anyone nowadays would call them anything other than that.

I too am adopting this vocabulary.

This is what they are called in Japan. I agree that it's by far the best system of identification.

standard screws can use almost any flat headed object to turn them. Hmmm

The difference being, you probably don't *work* in a field that requires a distinction. Around the house, "flathead" is probably fine. But like he said in the video, if you're actually in a building-type field, you should probably be more precise with your terminology.

In the electrical field Flat Head means Slotted screw. No one ever uses any other name for this type of screw or screwdriver. I can imagine asking for a box of 2” x 8/32 “Standard” screws at the Supply house counter and getting a goofy look for the counter guy! But hey, I’m sure that in say Woodworking the terminology is different. My former Foreman, hated it when one of us said “Star Drive” when referring to Torx drive screws. He said that it made us sound like stupid homeowners and not Professionals. He also hated when I used to call Uni-Strut Kindorf. Like who cares? That’s like hating the name Band-AIDS when referring to Adhesive Bandages. Whatever works and whatever the people that you work with understand.

i guess you dont use impact drivers a lot. :)

CapApollo i use impact drivers all the time

CapApollo what difference does the impact make?

@@CapApollo he was saying the word is fine he most likely rarely uses the actual tool

No they don’t

Standard, slotted... it fits nicely into the slot leading to the standard garbage can. I guess it's the original design, but it's crap. We've come a long way, baby. Anything but a slotted, and you're good.

+AgentJayZ Yep...never met a slotted screw I liked. In fact, in the next couple of days, I'm going to gather up all the slotted screws I can find at our shop at work and they are going in the dumpster! Same with the "snake eyes" security screws...I really hate those bastards!!!

And the worst thing are the screws that hold the wall plates on switches and data/power outlets. Anybody who can get one of those in without slipping and chipping the paint off the head has talent and patience. And forget about using a power screwdriver if there is any resistance in the threads. Why they didn't switch to self-centering Phillips heads is beyond me.

You mean It's a pry-bar.

after she stepped on it?

Dude, you need to lighten up and work on developing a sense of humour. But don't feel bad, since you are definitely not alone :)

I promise i have a sense of humor, and I'm not offended by your video, I did state that i liked the history and education, i even liked the video. I'm not coming down on you. just pointing out facts about language, and the unnecessary degradation of individuals for use of a term that I would say 90 percent of people only know that tool as. I definitely think you should make more vids if you could refrain from insulting people, that would only make them better.

joshua parsons Again, dude, lighten up and work on the funny bone.

:D

felixthecrazy pozidriv and negidriv

XD

My mother calls them "cross" and "normal". "Cross" is very common term for Philips in Czech republic.

it comes from general observation, "what screwdriver fits that screw?" minus, plus, square, star etc

A manually shifted transmission is called a "standard", even though there are a lot more automatics. Standard definition has all but been replaced by high definition, but the name remains. While "standard" is the most correct name for the screwdriver, other names are a lot more popular mainly due to widespread usage. If you read enough RU-vid comments, you'll become convinced that "you're" is an incorrect spelling of the contraction "you are".

i think his point is that you sound more profesional using the correct terminology. e.g. if a doctor was talking to another doctor they would always say clavical not collar bone. i do see your point however, that a doctor talking to a patient; may refer to the collar bone, not clavical

Except that you sound like a dork( not you personally ) calling it a 'standard', since nobody ever calls it that. I have always said flatblade - Cheers

i dont mind sounding like a dork, i would counter the point of it making you sound like jackass; as having being "in the trade" for the past 15 years. using the correct terminology, shows customers you actually know what you are talking about, and havent just walked out of college and picked up a ballpein hammer (calling it the rounded hammer)

Miles11we .cant argue with that, my dad and a guy he used to work with; used to refer to a long handled phillips head screwdriver as "susan" as it was easier to say, "where's susan" than "where's the long handled phillips head screwdriver". i suppose i dont have these issues as i work alone. (i have enough voices in my head, so no need for a co-worker)

Joe, nobody calls it a standard? That's interesting since it is the real name. I have never heard anyone call a standard screwdriver a flathead. I'd laugh at them if I heard someone say flathead.

It's not the colour (and it's not hate), but the word "robbie". If one were to say "hand me the red Robertson", I'd be totally ok with that. :D

I get that. I've never heard anyone refer to a Robertson as a "robbie". Maybe its a regional thing. I'm in Nova Scotia.

Probably, it's very (too) common here in Ontario.

In BC I've heard it called a Robbie as well.

No one uses Robbie in QC, although Robertson's name is gaining recognition. As probably everywhere, old timers refer to them as square heads.

Catweasle flat head(or flat/blade) is allmost the standard in australia from what i have seen so yea i have to agree with you there. allthought in heavy vehicle maintanance they get called outdated pices of shit more often then anything else

Christopher Read True. They are outdated now. The standard seems to be phillips head.

Catweasle and torx bits. exspecially on american gear

Christopher Read We didn't sell many torx bits. Number 2 phillips was our biggest seller.

Catweasle diferent industries i guess

Saw Dust Maker I'm with you there. My dad has been a carpenter for 40+ years, and I install door and windows. I learned from him and I can't recall using anything but flathead.

Plus, if you say, "grab me a large flat head screwdriver" EVERYONE knows what you're talking about.

half the crews on the jobsites don't speak english, but they know what a flathead is...not gonna ask for a standard, sorry. But always important to know the facts. thanks

We know and use them as pry bar. Other than that, I rarely seen and use one for its intended purpose. Unless there is historic significance in the work you're doing, when you remove a standard screw, you replace it by whatever else you have on hand. Robertson actually invented the square shaped head screw after injuring himself when demonstrating a "Yankee" standard screwdriver. I was thought that you should use Robertson whenever you need "cam in" action, meaning no or less slippage. Otherwise, use a Philips screw when you need "cam out", such as when installing drywall sheets. Personally, standard screws should only be use in casings, such as electric terminals. Otherwise, they are injuries in waiting: you don't know when but surely someone will get hurt.

or your an electrician and half your day is using a flathead

Flat head is the screw type - that's what manufacturers call it, not countersunk. There are no fasteners in common use that are specifically designed for counterbores.

What about socket head cap screws? They are designed for counter bores.

Phillip Toone Are you sure that's the name? It's not counterbore screws? :D

Plus you can get round head countersunk screws... but I kind of agree with Phillip too - if it's countersunk screws you want (ie you have used a countersink) then thats what you call them so i'd say flat head countersunk...

Yes. Socket head screws are intended for counterbores. Flat head and oval head screws are intended for countersinks. If you are designing something intended to be countersunk but don't care about the profile of the head you could specify a countersunk screw and let the manufacturer choose a flat head or an oval head. I understand this is not standard practice and a designer would most likely specify one, or the other, or either (flat or oval).

Not really, I do this for a living.

Dumb people generally don't understand subtle humour, so they often feel they are being patronized (patronized means talked down to).

+I Build It I'm far from beeing dumb or getting offended i was just speaking for those who probably work at an office desk and search the internet for answers and here you are it is not called flat head it is called standard like if a name matter when driving a screw into anything

As a founding member of a communal hackerspace Helsinki Hacklab, I've encountered countlessly numerous occasions where finding about and using proper names for things would have been a lot easier for anybody than inventing your own nonclamenture based on coming to some craft as a newbie. Using language is very hard and tough if we don't speak the same language. Hence, names do matter.

You hit the nail on the head. But we're talking about screw drivers and that's what all them tools are , end of video.

I have a #2 JIS that I bought in Japan many years ago. It's my favorite screwdriver for #2 Philips screws. Seems to hold the Philips screw better than a proper #2 Philips screwdriver does.

I think the JIS is closer to Pozidrive, as the edges are flat and parallel, but without the ridges the Pozidrive has (I think those are only to distinguish it more easily from Phillips and they do not have some technical function, but not sure about that)

muh1h1 I'd accept Torx, but I prefer Robertson

muh1h1 I'd accept Torx, but I prefer Robertson

muh1h1 , posi-drive is another that is mistaken for Phillips.

We'll officially add "straight blade" to the archive and "slotted" will be deleted :D

No I think he did mean star/Phillips because he mentioned drywall screws. They are phillips headed screws and PZ2 don't quite fit which is a PITA in my opinion... Like you I wish we had the square ones too as they look great...

I've never quite understood why plasterboard screws are exclusively Philips when the majority of non-plasterboard screws used (in the UK and I think Europe) are Pozi. It seems strange that one industry is holding out against the change.

I guess that have to do with the way the screw are made, and the final price.

I was told once (never researched) that the philips drive was used specifically in drywall screws because they do cam out. This makes it able to drive the screw but cam out before digging in too far.

That doesn't sound right to me. You could easily sink a drywall screw straight though drywall and embed it deeply in the wood below without risking cam out.

Peter G yeah we get posi drive here in the uk too. Often they don't even discriminate between posi drive and Phillips. I have sets of both drivers and they aren't interchangeable, they cause stripping.

Pozidrive works well enough if you have a good driver and screws. Problem is the drivers seem to wear out fast and as soon as they do they're awful. There's a reason you can buy PZ2 drive bits in a box of 20.

It is Pozidriv and it is bad. I believe it is just as bad as the Phillips and both should be banned to make the world a better place. The biggest problem with both is that you have to push hard the driver towards the head of the screw constantly or else it will completely destroy the screw (especially impact drivers, which I love to use) and you get tired pretty quickly. Wish we had Robertson here in the EU but Torx will have to do (super expensive though).

My experience of pozidriv is that it's pretty good, certainly better than Philips; less risk of cam-out and good tolerance of angular misalignment (which most other shapes suck at). As a couple of others have said though, using a Philips bit in a PZ screw will usually ruin both.

You nailed it with the not interchangeability. If you look at symbols for the driver size, you will find that Phillips is marked with a cross while Pozi looks like a cross with a thinner cross rotated by 45 degrees. looking at the screews, they look very much the same. Pozidrive was invented as an improvement to philips heads. With Phillips you have to push while turning the screw, as you hae kind of angled surfaces connected (only a very small part is straight), not enough pressure and the driver will slip out of the head. With any powered drill/driver you got either a stripped driver or bit, depending on the quality. Pozidrive was intended to overcome this, by making the interlocking surfaces parallel on a wider area and have no angled surfaces interconnecting for transfering torque. This was done with drivers for drywalling etc. in mind. So in theory it works better. I suggest we leave it like that for now... With torx a whole lot of sizes was developed, to theoretically use the most space available in the screw head and thus have the biggest possible driver to transfer the most torque possible. Well nice theory, in my mind most screws or materials you screw in are far from being able to take the amount of torque, so a lot less sizes would be sufficient, as mentioned I think T20 and T25 are the most common ones. With the tiny screws in electronics and mobile screws this is a lot easier to understand by the way.Here a little difference in driver size makes a whole lot of difference.

Pat Farrell this was my first thought too. I bet pozi is more common than Philips and torx

Pat Farrell you ca not use Philips in Pozi-driv or the other way around - philips has parallel fins, Pozi-driv has trapezoid shaped fins - you will damage the screws - on loose screws it may work but as soon as you apply torque it wont work - this is also explained on the philips website but there is a compatible system called philips acr which is uncommon but backwards compatible

Take a closer look, actually the Phillips head is trapezoidal and the Pozidrive is parallel (At least the ones I just checked in my desk drawer). I think the Phillips head was the thing a lot easier to manufacture at its time. Not as easy as a "standard" bit, which really sounds antique as it is so far from standard today. Philips came up to allow power driven tools. Anyone who ever tried a standard in a cordless drill to screw or unscrew a screw with a slotted head and tried keeping the bit in the slot very well knows what I mean. For Europe today I would consider PZ to be the "standard" type, while PH and Slotted heads still exist and at least PH is far from uncommon. Torx indeed is close or even next tp PZ, anything out of a factory seems to use TX heads and if you go into any DIY store here around Europe, you will find it as the common head for construction screws in between. If you compare a bigger construction screw, lets say a metric 6x70 Flathead, and try to power drive the same size as PZ, PH and TX, TX will clearly win. It is almost impossible to cam out and with all the surfaces you got a lot of interlocking surface with the force almost perpendicular to the surface. Only for Drywall PH Screws and PZ Screws are still more common, but if you look at certain drywalling bits, that is because a sleve around the tool will help to pull the bit out of the screw, as soon as the head is sunk, wihtout driving the screw through the board. Looking at the canadian square heads, well I know them, I even have one real piece of shit bit set including those, but I never found screws or bits for them here in europe. I think I only found them once in some electric device and the screws had been intentionally used to prevent anyone from easily opening the case with tools everyone has at hand.

Alex Ku you are right, my bad - Philips is indeed trapezoid shaped and PZ parallel :-) but the PZ is the version for power tools, compared to the older philips it has greater torque and less cam out

Pat Farrell Or u could go Robertson.... u know, like a smart person.

Allen/hex wrenches and other fasteners are everywhere in north America. Just not in carpentry. Mostly for smaller stuff. From folding knives to roller blades.

And let's not forget an awful lot of motorcycles (Japanese primarily) use Allen/hex. And what is even more frustrating about the hex heads/tools - they come in both Imperial (SAE) and metric... uuuggggghhhhhh :) Japanese/European use metric whilst most US use SAE (inches). Good discussion in video btw.

Gaming With ViperZeroOne a star has 4 points. the 5 point star isn't the only version but is the most common since it's very cartoony.

Timmy T-Rex ... Since when does a star have 4 points? Maybe when viewed through a lens, but that's not actually the star. That's a distortion of light passing through the glass. In reality, stars are round when seen by the naked eye. 4-pointed stars are a symbol of ignorance, no offense. That said the most widely accepted depiction of a "star", as drawn, is the 6 point star. It's been used by the Jewish community as a religious symbol all across the world for over 3000 years. In addition it's also been adopted by Christians, usually during the Christmas holiday, with a slight modification involving the extension of the bottom point to more closely relate to the cross. The Bahai religion also uses a star, but with 9 points vs the 6 of the Jewish faith. The 5 pointed star has also been widely used throughout history and is far from "cartoony", as you put it. It's usually tied to paganism (not to be confused with satan worship) with each point representing an element of nature. So in reference to the topic at hand, the 4 pointed star is far from the most widely accepted form of a star. That's why I always scoff when anyone calls a Phillips screwdriver a "Star", since Torx is far closer to being a star shape than a Phillips ever will.

Gaming With ViperZeroOne a typical star is depicted as 4 points. 5 points is a nautical star and then you have the 6 point stars you mentioned that are used religiously.

Timmy T-Rex ... "A typical star is depicted as 4 points" ... Typical in what way? Typical in your own part of the country, because I can guarantee you that's not the case world-wide. You tell someone to draw a star and you're likely to have a 90+ percentage of people draw either a 5 or 6 point. I'd wager, before this conversation, even you would have drawn a 5 or 6 point star. The word "typical" means the characteristics most associated with a particular thing. Thus the "typical" star would be guaranteed to be a 5 or 6 point. You have to take your "typical" stance on a world-wide basis because tools themselves are world-wide objects. The only reason people in North America refer incorrectly to the Phillips as a "star" screwdriver is because it appeared long before the Torx was invented and it looks like a bad representation of a lens-flared star. In fact, I happen to know some novices that call it an "Cross" or "Plus" headed screwdriver. I think those descriptions are more accurate, even if they're still wrong. The term "star" for a Phillips screwdriver is as about as accurate as calling a turd "reprocessed food".

"flat head" = standard... :P

Well, now you have :) Go forth into the world a more enlightened individual.

I Build It I already forgot what you called it :)

Hey, I thought that was my idea! Plus, as an electronic tech, I like the pun of + and - = terminalogy, ha-ha!

Is that a chop saw or a mitre saw?

Its actually a circular saw.

If you are talking about the Hitachi (green and black), it is a mitre saw.

I see what you did there...

Jay Bates it's a chop saw

Zeet I work construction and literally everyone I know calls it a flat head

I've always called it a flatblade, but if you asked me to pass you the large flathead screwdriver I would know exactly what you meant. NOBODY has ever called it a 'Standard' in my life time - Cheers

Flat heads are still commonly used on things where most people won't have tools around to tighten the screws like box cutters, bracelets, camping gear, guns, toys etc because it would be easy for someone to use a coin or some type of flat edge. They are also still used on electronics and eye glasses.

Miles11we no that's stupid logic

Miles11we Not necessarily how language works. If you get loads of people mispronouncing a word, it doesn't mean that is the correct pronunciation.

Miles11we You have a point... But officially changing the name will cause confusion within the group of real pros, books and other literature. Noobs don't usually look at naming, they just pick it up from the shelf from the store.

Actually it is exactly how language works. Miles11we is completely right. Officially changing the definition of a word always happens after it has been unofficially changed by 95% of the people, not before.

Manual transmissions were called standard because they were the standard (as in base) equipment for the vehicle -an automatic would be an upgrade. The slotted screwdriver sets the standard - it was the first. "Standard" in this case has absolutely nothing to do with how common it is.

Don’t put any motor oil in your engine Dave!

Dave Stone it's an engine under the bonnet

Andy Druen Especially if I'm at the Department of engine vehicles.

A motor is any device which coverts any other form of energy into mechanical motion. An engine is a kind of motor.

bityard I'm sorry, that's incorrect. Good try though.

Stanley is a much bigger manufacturer than Klein, and they call it by it's proper name - "standard".

Actually, just looked at their website, and Klein does not call the standard tip "flathead". They call it either keystone or slotted.

At Home Depot here in the US, the package for both Klein and Stanley describe it as a "flathead" screwdriver. Klein US site lists them as cabinet tip and keystone, as well. Stanley calls the Robertson a "square tip". Terms may differ by location. I do agree with the confusion, especially when you do plans, around all the different terminology.

That 'stupid' pozidrive is easily identifiable from a phillips and makes stripping screws pretty much a thing of the past when used correctly.

You know that, I know that, I'm even sure he knows that. but there are tons of people out there that don't. I work on Italian equipment installed in the US, they use a lot of posidrive fasteners, and it's extremely annoying dealing with stripped out screw heads because some bozo tried using a Phillips screwdriver on a posidrive screw or the other way around. a lot of the Italians don't know the difference and smash posidrive screwdrivers into Phillips screws, which is even more detrimental that what normally happens in the US

@ MrMarkb68: IN MOST CASES: U R WRONG!

+ Carmen Schumann. I guess it depends on where you come from. In the UK they are called countersunk screws. I trained as an aircraft engineer and was taught they were countersunk screws

Well, I live in Australia and I am a Precision Sheet Metal Worker with over 30 years experience. And we use countersunk screws all the time. I have NEVER heard or seen them described as flathead screws. Must be a weird American thing I guess. Or a carpentry thing. On a fun side note, down hear we call "carpenters" " wood butchers". :-)

Carmen Schumann No need to shout. I'm just here. Oh, U and R are letters, not words. :-P

I think countersunk screws aren't necessarily flathead. They can also be oval head.

T25 is the most common in construction (in the US), T10 and T15 are seen more in electronics and things.

T20 and T25 are the two common sizes in construction in Europe. T20 is probably the most common out of the two. T20 and T25 are probably used for more than 90 % of wood screws. Some very large screws use larger sizes like T30. But the vast majority of wood screws is T20 and T25. It's a bit hard to tell the difference and you can accidentally use a T20 bit in a T25 screw and still screw it in if the torque isn't too high. I would have preferred if they had dropped the T25 size and just used T20 for all those instead. For electronics etc. T10 is the most common size, but for small portable devices like smartphones much smalle screws with sizes something like T6 and T8 are used.

It can be tempting to use T20 instead of T25 when you can't find your T25 bit. I hate when I do this because it damages both the bit and the screw head. I wish I had only screws with torx size that are incompatible with each other: either too big to fit, are too small to grip.

xl I work on a lot of Caterpillar machinery. Lots of T30. I have sworn revenge on all who use T27, T25, T20 or a bloody Allen key to remove/replace fasteners lol

P3dro 2486 A nice tip however if you have a stripped Allen head screw, is to use a Torx bit or screwdriver to unscrew it. You can usually find a Torx size that just fits inside the Allen head and can loosen it when an Allen key can't anymore.

you should never use a hammer on a screw. Hammering in a screw will make it lose its bite.

.... yeah .... pretty sure he was being serious

Ian L you can never tell with people nowadays

Tim Hyatt I don't think that Assumption on the size is right. a size 25 hex would be 25 mm. For our imperial friends, that is just under 1 Inch. actually I would guess the size of a T25 at about 6-7 mm, about 1/4 inch. more likely it is even smaller

I'll have to look, but I think it's a reference to the "facet" of the driver, not the cross-sectional diameter....

Tim Hyatt yeah nah mate. A T60 isn't 60mm or 6mm or anything like that. You have sparked my interest though, because I have no clue how the torx number relates to the size. To Google

Somehow I felt like this discussion was left open, also this sparked some interest in having this open question answered. I found some description that mentioned Torx was derived from Allen heads (or in parts of Eurpoe, especially Germany "Inbus" or Innensechskant would be the name almost everyone recognizes). but Allen have the force applied between tool and screw at an awfully shallow angle. So with torx they essentially dished out the flat sides and the remaining sides now met at an almost 90 ° angle, which would be the perfect angle to transfer a force. For the size, no luck in anything somehow mathematically related to the measured dimensions. I came to the comclusion it is just an index ranging from 1 to 100, referred to as T1 to T100 describing the quite odd sizes (both in metric and imperial measurements are odd numbers). I would think it is the same as with numbered and lettered drill bit sizes known in the US. Like you have to know that a No. 7 drill bit is the correct size for a 1/4-20 tap.

i tried to look into the sizing and such....it doesn't seem to make a lot of sense to me.....i haven't been ble to find where the standards were set, or the reasons behind them.....

John Conklin you cand find them in any hardware store

That has not been my experience.

John Conklin try Lowes and Home Depot.. I have also found them @ Pro Hardware

In the US, If you look for the pocket hole screws, they are the square Robertson and the drivers are usually on a shelf nearby.

Alot of new deck screws are also square drive and come with the bit

Do you need a hug?

The "square" drive (that rips off the patent) wasn't developed last week, you know. I didn't ignore pozidriv - it's not in widespread use here. Also, where did I say that this is a comprehensive study on all of the screwdriver types?