PleasantKenobi I keep telling people to not give a shit about the fetches dont ask for them dont buy them. Next step is to ban them as a community and mess with the data at tournaments. We need to send a message to Wizards that you print these lands effectively or we are going to move on and never use them again (effectively killing their reprint equity)
You gotta cut him some slack man. I feel like a resounding "don't even consider buying this" is probably as harsh as he can be if he wants wizards to take the criticism seriously.
@@Sturm64 I don't think the original comment was intended to mean the prof wasn't harsh enough in his criticism. It's just different ways to do it. This is the way my mom would do it. And her criticism really stings, man
Congratulations, enjoy your 1 island per Switch console. The price of 5 pieces of colored cardboard being more expensive than a game console and a new game is egregious.
@@Bladius_ I bought a switch lite bundle from gamestop basically the only one I could find that wasn't scalped or at door pickup but they would have to order it on anyway. Came with minecraft not that I really care about that one. A screen protector a case and a memory card I mostly just wanted it so I could play animal crossing tho.
@@zztzgza yeah I saw that being an issue lol but I'm going to be the only one using this switch so no big deal to me honestly. But thanks I havent played an animal crossing game since the original ds and I loved that game.
Sol Ring is such a great example of how to handle the reprinting of something that is as staple as staple gets. Countless precons in, and it still hold 'some value', it is NOT a bulk card. I can't go out and buy 50 of them for pennies, I'd be paying significantly more than that. Fetchlands are most definitely in the Sol Ring category, i.e. cards that even if reprinted into the ground will ALWAYS hold some value. They will never be bulk. The fact that Wizards is refusing to reprint them to this extent is flat out anti-consumer, and it is both sad and angering to see.
Yes, but I think it's interesting to point out - for the first couple times WOTC would reprint the fetchlands in precons or something similar? Those are going to sell out and pretty much only help people scoring off the secondary market. The greed of people flipping MTG singles for profit is just too great.
@@kereminde The solution to that is simple. Print the product into the ground, print so much of it that it never gets sold out unless a store doesn't want more to sell. Can't scalp things that are available everywhere at regular prices
@@kereminde One of the first Duel Decks was worth close to $60 and still sold for $20 at Wal Mart six months after release. They underprint on purpose to use scalpers as an excuse not to give us good cards for fair prices. You can't scalp a decent print run.
@@Stroggoii You can totally scalp a decent print run. Also, I remember those decks, and while they still sold for $20... I couldn't get one. I should clarify. The ones on the shelf had already been "raided" for the money cards - either returned "unopened" with things removed or visibly broken into. This, along with a couple other things WalMart does concerning Magic as a product, is why I won't buy cards there. Target is only marginally better. If there was, in fact, a site similar to "Secret Lair" to buy direct from Wizards for these things at the MSRP? Well, that would be the most helpful to make sure these products don't get screwed over. But that would cut out the middleman (distributors) and as a fine upstanding citizen once said: "Eliminating the middleman, never as simple as it sounds. Fifty percent of the human race is middleman, and they don't take kindly to being eliminated."
Their logic: -sol ring is reprinted every year. It is 1 card. -evolving wilds is reprinted every year. It is 1 card. They think we can be happy with just 1 fetchland in the 99. LOL
"They will also be reprinted in an additional product this year" I'm calling it now, Secret Lair Ultimate Edition II, Fetchland Boogaloo. Contains all 10 fetchlands, costs "about" $500, comes with a decorative box inside of a decorative box.
See what gets me is they said that Fetchlands themselves would be reprinted later this year. It felt like it left the option that they could do another version of the same secret lair with the Ally fetchlands. And that's the crap that i expect to see.
no no no no no your thinking too small Secret lair fetchland: mystery edition plain black box of the cheapest cardboard, inside is one randomized fetchland. there are 40 boxes, enough for a playset of each. they will then be auctioned off to the highest bidder, bids starting at $1,000. Is it foil? that's part of the mystery! which card are you bidding on? Also part of the mystery! New art? Mystery! the sad part is I could see them raking in hundreds of thousands of dollars with that stunt.
My LGS it's selling 195€ only winning the % like in the other products... they don't want to steal from us. 165 it's the price for them + earning + taxes.
Yea. Imma go play a real game in which women are not boobless trans and reprints dont happen for 10 years+. Cardfight Vanguard. They literally have decent decks with 4x good cards for 3.99
Prof, It would be awesome if you interviewed the other MTG Prof (Dr. Richard Garfield) at some point if able. It would be awesome for you to interview him and hear his current take and impressions on the modern state of the game, the controversy around its financial cost to play, and design decisions looking back.
Props to Prof for politely and professionally promoting this product when prompted by WOTC. They picked him to be the one who revealed it to the world, and he did so. And now with that video done, I’m glad we get to see him give this ‘product’ the thrashing it deserves.
@M B He was paid by WOTC to do so, and abided by the nondisclosure agreement he no doubt signed. Now that the NDA has expired, he (and Pleasant Kenobi) are speaking their minds regarding these products. It’s commendable because he did what he was contacted to do. Now he is doing what he WANTS to do. That takes a lot of professional integrity to hold off and not shoot the messenger who came to him on WOTC’s behalf.
Issue here is that them revealing an msrp would change nothing. Stores would still need to max profits, the incredibly low supply is to blame here. Rasmussen's "a bit more" statement was treated as msrp, same result.
@@bulletmonkey979 but that's the point - what was the reason to remove msrp is totally unclear since it's, firstly, Minimal Suggested - it doesn't set the price in stone, and secondly there will be a virtual msrp anyway because we have the Internet now and we can go and search online and compare prices and stores do just that to find out an average market price
@@krim7 scg is Sold out the demand seems to be high, even at this price point. This means if any retailer sold it for significantly less they would be bought out immediatly and the product flipped on eBay.
Having MSRP back would be nice... Keeps the original retailer price in check as well as curtails any gouging that would occur on the secondary market. Of course, limited print run product would likely still get sold through and flipped regardless so seems like a lose-lose situation no matter what.
I seriously hope no one buys this product other than to review it like this, and that instead they buy the singles they need from their LGS. This is ridiculous. “Just a little over $165” my arse.
@@peewee130946 right, and they also "don't know" the second market exist. Withholding a print on purpose in order to sell a product is artificial inflation of demand similar to what diamond companies do as the main distributors have a Monopoly on the products themselves. Wizards has no competition for printing these cards and therefore set the prices by setting the amount produced. It's really basic economics and after writing all this I'm just now realizing you may have been being sarcastic and in that case, I apologise for the long response.
“Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.” ― Mark Twain Unfortunately, your points are too strong and too logical for them to be taken into consideration. It's a shame, since you're probably more passionate about MtG than WotC is at this point. As a game, at least.
The Commander Tavern no one here seems to realize that WOTC, like every other company in the world is only out to get as much money as possible. Of course this is a balancing act. Upset the community too much and you lose players, but more importantly you lose money. They aren’t our friend, their only purpose is to generate wealth.
"But the product still sold out, and we still made tons of money, so it's a great product. Also, we still have fetchlands in our back pocket to virtually print money whenever we may need it." -wizards
"Fetchlands will also see a reprint this year (2020) in an additional product" I honestly heard this during the interview and took it as Wotc saying "Hey were going to make another secret lair latter in the year containing the other 5 fetch lands!"
I found Magic about two years ago at age 56. Never in my life have I seen a company that so consistently fails in fulfilling customer expectations. I've said before, I don't know what metric is used to promote people in there, but competency is not among them. BTW, I'm sort of the whale you speak of. I can afford pretty much any MtG products I wish to buy. I could afford this product if I wanted it, I don't. As a consumer I find it insulting. BTBTW, nice meeting you at Command Fest DC.
To be fair wizards became this thing just recently, much because of the hasbro and investor pressure, wizards was pretty good in correcting their mistakes, but these days it's like they make a mistake and make it again,again,again and again
@@nathanielreusser5723 I actually switched from Yugioh to Magic and it's so much nicer, especially now that I've discovered Commander for myself. Yes, there still are artificially scarce cards that should definitely be reprinted, and some of these are way too good/expensive at the same time, but still, only having to buy one of every card? Staples that easily work across Decks? Hell yes.
I'm actually pretty convinced that the price per cardboard, including manufacturing and shipping (as sold to stores) is worth more than it's equal in gold. Wizards board room super happy, thanks Hasboro 💚
The moment I saw Wizards was getting LGS's involved in this drop, I knew this would happen. They should have sold it direct to consumer online, or at events when those return, or not at all. They can't possibly tell LGS's what to price it at and enforce it. I'm all for supporting LGS's, but not under circumstances like this.
Can you really blame the LGS when they only got 3-5 of these? We get 20+ people showing up just for Commander night. That doesn't count the Standard/Modern/Pioneer players on other days (many of whom play multiple formats). When a store has that many regulars, how are they supposed to distribute 3-5 copies of a product that only contains singles, not a playset? If the supply were unlimited and the LGS could sell them to everyone, the price wouldn't go up. But when you can't sell to more than 1-5 of your dozens/hundreds of customers, of course the price will go up. Artificial scarcity jacks up the price, and then anyone selling for the regular price gets bought out by someone who's just going to flip it for the higher price. This is completely the fault of Wizards for strangling the supply line.
Doesn't work that way, sadly. This is a product aimed at whales, and it has sold out, meaning it was financially successful, at least short-term. The Professor's argument is that it is damaging in the long run. As someone that played some Magic twenty years ago, and was tempted to dive back a couple time, the most recent one being with the release of Magic Arena, but ultimately decided to never ever again play because of the absurd costs of some cards, I fully agree with his analysis. Magic is a great game, but it is not THAT great, not for me.
You are a great communicator. Not only do you share your points of view, but you do so in an an exccelent manner. You are clear, concise, reflect back on your message and summarize it very well. You remind me of one of my university professors wich i admired. Thank you!
PrettyTony Sadly probably pretty accurate, or they could announce a good product and then not immediately take a huge dump on it by announcing a money grab and patting themselves on the back for it
Wow some stores got 3 they didn't even get a play set of the lands... I remember being mad about this a while ago for $200. At this point I just don't care.
Many magic the gathering players asked the question: Can people who aren't rich get to play premium cards without having to sell their organs? And with premium cards i mean fetchlands, Liliana of the veil, Jace mind sculptor... I mean, i can craft a very tasty deck with the budget that a single copy of those cards would cost me, but even then i would love to try some decks with this kind of cards. Not today, probably not anytime in general. Welp.
Hilarious! I love the self deprecating humor you have. And I love your ethical backbone, Prof. You have a lot to teach us about things. Things that aren't math, lol.
When wizards does reprint the fetchlands, they are going to be in the collectors boosters for Zendikar. Because they need to find someway to continue to justify that worthless product while at the same time not giving the fetchlands the reprint volume they so desperately need.
@@Kattywagon29 I doubt it. Collectors boosters sold for $220 - $240 and it only comes with 12 packs. This is about the price range for modern masters sets which came with 24 packs. For the most part, card from standard sets don't have as high of a value when compared to modern cards. I could be wrong, but I don't see many people taking the big risk of buying up a whole bunch of collectors booster boxes in hopes of hitting enough value in fetches and bombs in Zendikar to turn a decent profit margin. Maybe if the price was dropped slightly then it may be something to consider; but as of right now, the collectors booster remains to be a bad product.
@@Bush_Striker_of_Towers I think anyone who is on the fence about whether or not to buy a collectors booster would be more willing to if there was a possibility of fetches in it. Collectors boosters come with mostly standard legal cards that may or may not have a value based on the meta. Fetches will always be high value until they are meaningfully reprinted.
If WoTC is going to sell these overpriced products you should have to get on a "whale list" to buy them. If people with too much money want to just give it away for cardboard then so be it. The people getting screwed over is the average MTG player that then feels the "need" to have them. They waste far too much of their income percentage on what is a fugazi cash grab from WoTC. They dont deserve a penny of it anymore.
How did we go from Expeditions, inventions, and Innovations which created some of the best selling standard environments into Secret Lairs? The equivalent of buying cards from TCGplayer at a higher more fancy price.
fuck secret lair, why didn't they put godpacks in Theros? Oh wait they did in the fucking PREMIUM BOOSTERS that contained roughly 20 mystics per Booster box...
I played Yugioh, Pokemon, Hearthstone and i can say that magic is the best card game, but but it's a damn shame the price of 5 pieces of cardboard, a lot of people can't spend that kind of money, and we're talking about basic cards in modern. I love this game but i dont go support this company whit these practices, customers aren't wallets, they are people.
Sure I have a lot of fun with magic. But I also have a lot of fun with pokemon. The fun to price ratio is considerably higher for me in pokemon simply because the game is affordable. This is coming from a salaried person who can afford to play both games but would rather buy other things instead of expensive decks. Having more fun isn't necessarily a better thing if the cost to achieve that fun is 5x-6x that of the other games. The fun better scale linearly and be that much fun. The subjectivity is how much fun does someone have compared to other games. I can say for myself that magic isn't even close to being 2x as fun as pokemon. In my opinion of course.
The fact I can get a limited edition, never to be released again signed playmat of Misty Rainforest by Seb McKinnon for less than the card with his version of the art really says something about these fetchlands
Isaac Strong not officially so they can still get away with this, and you still have whales buying this product up and trying to resell on the secondary market
Ah but if the base price is a disernable markup based off of market price it's like saying selling all your stock because a buddy who works at Enrron warned you, isn't insider trading.
WotC: "Fetch lands can't appear in standard because it slows down the game." Also WotC: creates multiple tutor-like cards in every set that search libraries and graveyards
Ikoria has 10 cards with the following words in it: "Search Library" Out of those, 1 is a land, 4 search for lands and are probably unplayable outside of commander, 1 searches for a copy of itself, 3 cost over 4 mana to cast (with 2 being tri-colored) and 1 is a 2 mana creature that can tutor, but requires sacrificing creatures and spending lots of mana to tutor. None of those will make tutoring near as prevalent as Fetchlands did. Your argument is plain wrong, they don't release many tutors these days. Moreover, Fetchlands also have the very real problem of greatly increasing the consistency of the manabase, making 5 color soup decks a bit too easy to make, which is not what they want in standard.
@Alice Shiki My point wasn’t tutors. My point was absurd complexity far beyond fetch lands would ever cause. Idunno, they took all the problems of the 4 color decks (having access to every part of the pie) and just gave it to UG, so... might as well have color soup.
@@aliceshiki8069 Oh, please. there are 63 cards in standard right now that search libraries and 24 that search graveyards. There are overlap, but in terms of time consumption that is even worse. Five color "soup" decks are only slightly worse that three color wedge decks. As if everyone would play a 5 color if given the choice...
@Hart Fetches in standard would also be fine if they weren’t in the same environments as lands with dual typings. I don’t think you’d end up with “Jeskai Black” if you were just fetching for basics.
As always you could not present this in a better way. You eloquently laid everything out. With a little comedy thrown in. I do look forward to your videos. Thank you Professor for the work you do. It is appreciated.
You know prof, I'm sending a pattern here. WOTC has a great idea that had some problems in terms of execution, you mention how much you like the idea, and then they do everything that they can to mess it up. Beautiful.
I'm a yugioh player but I enjoy watching MTG content to see how things run differently in other games. As bad as some of our products are, thank god none of our products are this expensive. We recently had a product come out that was basically a 40 dollar competitive starter kit, which included a myriad of cards ranging from staple to... questionable. But each box came with 5 alternate art copies of the "ghost girl" cards, most of which are always relevant and a few of are always needed. You got all of them in holo, plus several other in-demand staple cards for a tenth the asking price. I couldnt imagine a product that coat 400 bucks for 5 cards. Even if that box is really elegant.
The closing statement of this review is the single best piece of wisdom anyone has ever spoken. Some execs at Wizards/Hasbro shoud have it tattooed on their forehead so they can see it everytime they look into a mirror. Make the game affordable for the masses and at the same time exclusive for those who can afford it.
Wow! What a great analysis! Providing a solution to the problem was masterful. I feel embarrassed for the employees at Wizards, they really need you on staff.
u missed a great chance here to remind about the guy that makes those "luxury" wooden deck boxes... but maybe to compare them with secret lair's box was just kinda ridiculous
All players I know think this, but having a youtuber calmly explaining this even though he was the one that showed this product is something that I absolutely love about this channel. Thanks for always helping the community. Subscribed many years ago and I hope many new players do the same.
Finally, strong and direct opinions! I absolutely love it! Thank you for being the voice of the masses, our voice, that is surely heard by Wotc. Great content.
The number of copies is so stupidly low even at 165 $ it wouldn't have made the fetchlands more available on the secondary market for the community. Prices decrease when many copies get printed in affordable products.
My guess what will happen: "look guys, the lgs is shilling you, and that's why, going forward, wotc specialty products will only be sold directly through wotc. It's for your own best".
Thank you Professor for keeping true to your support of the players and the community and making constructive and meaningful criticism for our benefit. I was disappointed at your video of WOTC announcing the fetchlands' "reprinting" but you reminded everyone today where you stand on the subject and maybe WOTC learned something from the comprehensible arguments and undeniable truths you presented.
This is one of my biggest issues with Magic there are cards that are widely desired and never reprinted to keep them at a premium price for what ever reason. I play a lot of different card games and for a big part of it, I like the other ones a little more because they are more affordable and widely used cards get reprinted quite often to keep their price down. My group has decided just to use proxies for our decks since we don't play in tournaments that much because we can't afford to get all these cards and me personally I've almost quit the game altogether because I get tired of the premium price and atmosphere this game has around it in so many areas.
I come from yugioh and things had gotten better for awhile, but Konami has been showing its true colors again lately. The two most dominant decks each had a critical card criminally short printed in the set they came out of, leading to one costing 100 apiece and the other costing 75 apiece. We were in a situation until January where the game was super cheap to play, but banlists and short prints really jacked up the price again.
Well said! I, for whatever reason, stopped my "get a playset of any halfway decent land" policy sometime just before Zendikar and so only ended up with about half a playset of these. I guess I was happy enough to have Simic and Golgari colors covered and didn't care enough about Izzet, Boros or Orzhov to make an attempt to round things out. I've been looking for times when I could try to fill those out without paying more for them than I paid for original revised duals. I don't think I'll ever be able to do so now. What a feel bad!
I would love to see again Masterpiece/Expedition/Invocation premium cards. That is the best way to share old and new cards in a new form and everyone has that slow chance to get it from booster packs. Man, that feeling to get it like getting Golden Ticket to Willy Wonka's Factory 🙂.
No MSRP is a big fail with such limited products, my LGS stated that they expect those to go for 200 EUR (about $220), so those $400 are clearly pumped by sellers due to high demand. Unfortunately 'whales' will still buy a dozen of those to resell as singles for even higher price. :/
So you’re telling me buying Zendikar fetch lands costs me about...400$..... And I can get Khan Fetch Lands for about 100-150$. Yea no thanks. Fabled passage and Prismatic Vista are also fetch lands that fetches basics. What a greedy company.
