I have no problem with bug fixes, but massive changes like this should be clearly communicated otherwise it wastes my time and everyone else's time. Personally my free time is a valuable resource.
@@LuckyLuciano6 oh I agree 100% about the communication sorry if it came across that I didn’t. Anything that changes the damage state of skills and modifiers should ALWAYS be in the patch notes.
@@LuckyLuciano6He's saying this seems like a bug. He's not saying it was a bug that was fixed and this is the result. It seems straight up broken right now. Does core skill damage work at all on anything or is it only broken with DOT builds?
I had a feeling they were doing secret patches, in season 1. Kept seeing odd changes. I still don't get why they try and hide it, knowing they will be exposed. Smh
I have no problem with bug fixes, but massive changes like this should be clearly communicated otherwise it wastes my time and everyone else's time. Personally my free time is a valuable resource.
@@LuckyLuciano6If this was intentional, it leads me to believe they are too cowardly to openly nerf things. They are afraid of backlash to nerfs after the season 1 patch debacle.
Patch 1.1 fallout was an emergency campfire chat with devs hanging their heads and saying they were sorry. Now they shadow nerf the DoT multipliers with no Patch notes. Which nerf is worse?
I'm so frustrated right now, after watching this. I don't know if it's even worth it to continue leveling my rogue now. I just hit 80 last night and today is my day off work to grind. I feel very disappointed because now i so have to change my gear, paragon, and build... to i don't know what ? It makes me angry that blizzard thinks so little of my time. I could have avoided leveling a character based on faulty information. I'm not sure i even want to continue with the rogue at this point. I feel lost as to what to do with my build, that's the worst part for me.
I also noticed that it was less efficient. So what are the multi bonuses for DoT now? Is there any attack speed cap or breakpoint? because we get ton of AS with Ashera, Accelerating, Vampicric powers... maybe too much ^^ Please Quickly release a build update, even if it is only with current knowledge, bc I've been building heavily onto AS, Core Skill, Cutthroat .... :S And many thx for the Rogue guides, you rules :) loving your S1 All around build, it has been a blast ansd still ruling in S2!
This has me baffled, to be honest. It's not entirely game breaking and Rogue is still fun to play and strong but I really do not like that they are doing changes like this without informing the community. It looks really bad on them and makes it so they can not be trusted. There is a lot in game that has me thinking they def do not have a grasp on the game itself yet.
100% valid points. Blizzard isnt the only company that does this, though. Their main competitor, GGG (PoE) did this a few leagues back with a MASSIVE shadow nerf to drop rates. When you have a huge playerbase, do these companies not think someone will figure this stuff out quickly? Because they will. Since that league with PoE, it has made me less interested in PoE as I have already put around 7k hours into it. I really hate that D4 is becoming more of the same.
Idk if I’m missing something but core skill damage is supposed to do the damage of the skill not the imbument damage? Aren’t they in different buckets? He’s just showing the poison damage
Poison damage is a % damage calculated off the skill that applies it. So increase core skill damage SHOULD increase the damage the poison % is based off of therefore increasing the poison dmg as well.
Ive always used flurry/rapid fire and when they said vulnerable an crit would be nerfed I thought it was over. But to my surprise now it’s even better than never: before season 2 I could do tier 70 something dungeons but now I reach 100 with no problem. Same for Uber Lilith etc, the only thing I did was focusing on cc and close damage.
I didn't see this as a secret or a nerf. The poison itself is not coming from the core skill. It's coming from the imbuement. I've been waiting for this fix -not in excitement, but I've built around it ahead of time
Was slowly noticing this while doing lilth carries just small odd.things cause I wasn't op to start but could carry. Also she would do her head slam even though all her health was gone after two staggers on phase 2 to make sure
Right now I'm 87 lvl Twisting Blades and running 68 lvl NM dungeons which makes monsters +35lvl higher than my level. Completing it without any problems, so I wonder what would it be without these changes.
Its not a nerf, its a fix that wasn't properly disclosed. The new season is actually really fun and they nerfed the monsters a bunch. I feel very powerful and the drops are solid. This video is taken out of context of what actually is happening.
I chose poison rogue as well...im personally winging it and so far im not finding much bad problems...my first 2 paragon boards i went with imbuement buff and the trap + damage one and im not really struggling to much personally...im just running puncture, now twist blades but was flurry and kinda like flurry better in some cases to get my vuln up as i dont have my exploit upgraded yet, poison trap, shade and poison imbue, and death trap... depending on mob density my death trap resets on use or at most 20 second cooldown
@Thefunone88 honestly roughly the one lucky Luciano actually did in season 1...but I haven't really fully followed any builds, I just get a good idea of how they work and go about it my own way at least on the paragon board
Saw this coming from a mile away. That’s why I went necromancer this season. I had a hard gut feeling that DOT builds were going to be taking a hit. Rather it be secret or not. Perhaps it be a mistake in their damage calculation or perhaps it’s just a plain damage assessment. They did say damage will be changed. So that much it isn’t really a secret nerf by my perception. My solid guess is that they didn’t feel like they had to be specific about rogues DOT skills because it was covered in their non-specific announcement.. on the other hand like I stated, maybe it was something added and looked over in the patch notes or a calculation assessment mistake. But realistically, for me it wasn’t rocket science assuming that DOT builds were going to be insanely weaker than before since DOT builds were absolutely dominating the pre-season and season 1. Rewatch the 10/10/23 campfire and listen to how one of them talks about bringing down over-performing builds and bringing up under-performing builds. It doesn’t take more than 2 brain cells to guess that DOT TB rogues we’re gonna get the slap lmao. (To the male/female Karens in the chat; - yes we all hear you crying. Go get a tissue)
I had built your “Immortal Rogue” from last season, wasn’t completely done (few pieces of armor wasn’t quite right on stats). I was doing NMD 95 roughly. Same build now with even “better” equipment (900+), more AC, more HP, more “dmg” stats… I am down to doing NMD 75s. Lost 20 levels of NMD overnight with this update.
Seems more like a bug fix than a nerf. An imbuement is neither a core, marksman or cutthroat skill. And while we're talking about bugs, your uber unique from Duriel is supposed to roll with max stats. Seems like they forgot to make sure this also applied to the unique affix as well. Oof.
I have no problem with bug fixes, but massive changes like this should be clearly communicated otherwise it wastes my time and everyone else's time. Personally my free time is a valuable resource.
Hi, few questions... how does this affect shadow and cold imbuement? and, items like "condemnation" unique dagger, are way worse this way? This makes me wonder how other skills such as "Damage with ranged weapons" or "cold damage" impact on the imbuements, or this change in the formula is just about the DoT? Thanks for informing us and keeping us updated, and thanks to who has found and shared the info
Great vid, thanks! I believe this is how DOT is intended to work, and the previous multipliers were a bug. The reason Core/ type Skill multipliers were "hidden/ secret" in the first place is evidence of this. Also, if you read the Poison Imbuement description, more evidence is right there in plain sight. It states 'next 2 Imbueable Skills apply x% of their Base Damage as additional Poisoning. The definition of Base Damage does not include Core and *type Skill damage at all. I was actually shocked when I saw your DOT vid revealing these sources as multipliers. IMO this is far better for balance. It is senseless for DOT to be so effective. It should compliment your attack and nothing more. I'd think something like x2-3 more damage than the original source is reasonable, not x10. This about it, wtf is that. Breaks the game imo.
The issue is that base damage is not defined at all in the game. It is easy to say after the fact when it was changed that it was "not supposed to be this way", but before the changes it could have very well been the way they defined it. I don't state this to he combative, but your definition of base damage is not stated in the game and is just your interpretation of what it should be. For example, combo points is not base damage (it's a multiplier separate from TB%), yet that still works. Where do we draw the line on what is base damage and what is "hidden multipliers" for PI? Personally, after hundreds and hundreds of hours of testing for content creators like Lucky, would think that core skill damage and cutthroat skill damage makes sense to be considered base damage. After all, they are skill damage modifiers. If anything, I wish they would have either been clear and state explicitly what base damage implies and post a fix to support that claim in the patch note or simply allow skills to have unique scaling and adjust skill% accordingly. But that's just my pov
@@Avarilyn For sure, the lack of clear definition and representation in game is the root. I've seen many contradicting explanations online, and ultimately that's why I'm here. Great work team
So the DoT itself doesnt increase from those abilities, correct? I might be missing something but why would they? Isnt the DoT coming from the imbuement itself and not the Core skill? Perhaps it was a bug before and is now fixed? Either way, it should be in the patch notes somewhere to discuss unless they were unaware it wasnt working together
ive been playing around with close quarters combat lately with a ton of damage to crowd control, the damage is insanely high and im still tanky as hell to the point where i have capped armor for tier 100 NM dungeons without disobedience. i was still trying to stay loyal to pure poison but i did swap shadow step with shadow imbuement since metamorphosis gives me unstoppable. i am extremely happy i saw this video before rinding for my gear tho. thank you for your services for the poison rogue community man, love your vids.
It kinda makes sense. The imbued poison is extra poison power applied to the carry skill. But poison potency can't be increased by how hard you hit it. It is like thinking ibuprofen will be more effective if you swallow it faster, throw it hard into your mouth, or place it gently. 😉 the reality is that to make ibuprofen work better, you need to change the ibuprofen itself (change sugar coated by gel, increase the dose, or change frequency) and not how hard you put inside your mouth. So, I guess this change is a fix to make sense out of it and not a deliberate nerf. Maybe rogues were so OP that it just caught dev eyes sooner
What would be better now for weapon stats? I'm aware we need All stats/dex/ and what is better , dmg to close or dmg over time, or dmg to CC. What's the order? Does it really matter? Do we also have to prioritize lucky hit chance on rings? I get that we need life+crit chance. Same question, what's best? dmg to close and dmg to cc? Or life/crit chance/ lucky hit chance, dmg over time? What's the best for weapons and rings? BTW great video
Your guides have never failed us Lucky! While this is disappointing, i see it as a great opportunity for you to show us the next best rogue build! Ill be tuning in for sure. Best of luck with the shako grind! 🤙
They just corrected it. How it now sounds like it should be. And its not true that they dont give you any dmg bonus for poison imbument. You do get dmg bonus on the inital hit, just not for the dot poison dmg thats going for 9 seconds.
Ngl bro I read the post before season 1 and always understood it to mean that +dmg to core skills did nothing. Poison Imbue says on the skill it scales off your base dmg, and it always has scaled off your base dmg... This isn't new, glad you know this now tho
Man, I've been grinding for these stats as a casual player. Ugh. So overpower and ultimate skills seem to be the go-to, correct? Also where is the overpower chance Stat? Does it fall under a different t category?? Thanks for all the insane work. Keeps me highly motivated!!!
Am I missing something? This seems more like a fix than a nerf considering poison imbuement is not tagged as a core or cutthroat/marksman skill in the game (the tags shown when you mouseover a skill in game). It is tagged only as 'Imbuement'. So, it would follow that it shouldn't be benefiting from those modifiers.
Read the poison Imbuement skill. It's is supposed to deal % damage based off the attack damage used to proc it. So increase that attack damage from core skills (twisting blades being a core skill) SHOULD increase the base damage that the poison is calculated off of which would increase the poison damage.
@@LuckyLuciano6there’s builds one shotting stuff all over the place. This isn’t busted by any standard. The community has become far too loose with that terminology on RU-vid videos and it’s obviously getting noticed by blizzard as a result. I’m playing this build and my poison damage is atrocious on elites by comparison to previous season. Keep up the good work sir.
I was already wondering why my dmg split seemed to be so heavily skewed towards direct physical dmg even tho I was running the same setup as last season. Now this explains it. Time to go back to Vuln... I GUESS
I'm running dmg reduction, lucky hit and strictly poison imb on my rogue and i'm still spamming multiple 100-250k ticks and (rarely) hitting that 750-1m tick.
What makes me sad isn't that TB poison got nerfed, that's fine, but it's Bladedancer aspect that should have been changed not the core skill/cutthroat & marskman thing. Not only did it make sense as base dmg seems to be tooltip damage for other skills too, but on top of that it owuld bring TB poison in line with other poison imbuement builds, and those didn't really need to be nerfed.
In the past, there was a lot of outrage about this, then they were very upset that it would not happen again. Until now, he held the reins and the sneaky nerf arrived
Diablo Devs have no clue what they're doing.. every time it seems like they're doing something good, they destroy something else and it's quite clear they don't do any testing.
Because pre season 2 was bugegd doing the following, it counted the dmg of th skill you used to apply the dmg and after that counted as if the imbuement was that skill but with the original dmg you procced as base dmg wich was double dipping and thinking the imbuement was "the core skill you used to proc it" ths is not a nerf, but a not working as intended in fact, i pointed it out in your pre season video in fact and other ppl who were working with the "extra multipliers" that were never there in fact, because they were double dipping wich was terrible for the game. It changed only imbuements, not dots in general. Thats why ONLY PI worked that way and not all dot before. Blizzard change bugs and Not intended as shadow nerf all the tme, so i always tell ppl to not focus on gearing their builds with strange and seemingly not intended calcs.
@@LuckyLuciano6 agreed, but never trust blizzard, they have never done it 100% since they started this trend in sc1, will not start doing correctly now...
@@LuckyLuciano6 Btw they probably didnt even noticed they have fixed the problem, because it probably was fixed with the rewrite of the dmg system itself.
1) Its not a nerf, its a bugfix. Imbuements were never intended to benefit from additive skill damage, especially not as a multiplier. Therefore intentionally using this interaction to skyrocket your poison damage has been an exploit and thats why not mentioning it in the notes is fine for me. 2) So with poison damage calculation being fixed and poison res working as well, fields will finally be enjoyable as a non rogue class. Thats a huge win for the health of the pvp meta.
Because it imports its base damage from a core skill. Other modifiers affecting skill damage (such as combo points) still functions even though it "shouldn't".
Right - but it imports it's damage from the *base* damage of the skill that uses it. Core/Cutthroat/Marksmen do not increase the base damage of their skills, they are additive multipliers to the damage those skills do. Imbue Skill Damage would be the modifier that would increase poison tick damage, or ranks of poison imbue.@@Avarilyn
I hope what ever update they did was an honest mistake or glitch and hopefully Blizzard see this. I really don't want to assume they did a shady nerf like they did back in season 1.
I've encountered many twisting blades poison rogues. They looked anything but nerfed. A more appropriate word would be ridiculous. That damage...idk what they were using on gear haven't looked.
Hi! I was wondering. Was going to follow the guide in an excel spreadsheet. I looked at the affixes - there are only priority stats. But in d4builds - others. What can I do about it? With bis poiosn and regular damage - the build is the same?
I was thinking of a RapidFire/Barrage dual core build for this season since Grast of shadow grants +6 core skill, you have mother embrace, rapid fire enhancement and now this ring will cover a lot of the resources to spam both core skills. you cast rapid fire first then cast barrage to cancel the animation and so on.
You want DoT damage, not core damage. TB is a core skill so core damage will increase the damage TB does, not it's DoT (coming from a not-core skill). If core damage boosted DoT damage before, obviously it was a mistake and a bug. Especially when doing it through another skill that has nothing to do with the core skill. So it's not a nerf, it's a fix. PS. Try increasing imbuement damage, that should work.
