I forgot my SPL meter is a-weighted. Which means it does give more emphasis to the higher frequencies because it rolls off below approximately 1 kHz. Therefore, I believe what I discussed in this video regarding the reason for me hearing a difference in the speakers is true. The high frequency was level matched, but because of the dependency of the WIIM, its midrange was approximately 1/2 a decibel below the Yamaha. SCIENCE!!🎉 If you'd like to buy this stereo receiver you can get it here: Crutchfield: howl.me/cmxM2cdIqg3 Amazon: amzn.to/3yanuws This link earns me a small commission at no additional cost to you which allows me to keep doing what I'm doing. Or you are welcome to use any of the generic affiliate links below: Amazon: amzn.to/3v6i6ov Audio Advice: www.audioadvice.com/?referral=erins-audio-corner Best Buy: howl.me/ck2IPpcOp1h Crutchfield: shop-links.co/cgZmmT81jmh Parts-Express: parts-express.sjv.io/Y9zoEB Newegg: howl.me/ck2IQg52L5b Samsung: howl.me/ck2IQ5qe16w Target: howl.me/ck2IRDNsIqn Thomann: www.thomann.de/de/index.html?offid=1&affid=2577 Emotiva: shorturl.at/pBEU9 Monoprice: bit.ly/3yAY6NH Arendal Sound: arendalsound.com/store/?refer=hardisj
So the spl matching is done with some kind of noise? Is it better than matching with a 1khz tone? Im thinking it might be more of a broadband level difference you are hearing than the actual difference between the amp and it might be less noticable with a more "fair" matching? I am just thinking out loud here to understand whats happening i might be totally wrong
@@jerkersandquist7244if one amplifier is load dependent and the other is not you will always get a difference left or right. Do you want the mids to be lower or do you want the highs to be higher? Matching on mids would give higher highs on the Wiim, matching on the highs gives a lower mid on the Wiim. Pick your poison
Nice explanation on the amp differences. SPL meter. UMIK and REW. You can have A,C or flat. No weighting. Much more useful for this type of measurement. C weighting is actually good enough for most music. Mark
@@caidNL i get that. What i was trying to say is that i think almost the entirety of the frequency response being lower is more audible even if its not the actual error. So you might say its an error in the level match more than the actual difference that is audible and audibility could disappear if you match at 1khz.
@@jerkersandquist7244 fair remark. There's probably plenty of amplifiers with small load dependencies or colourations that are more or less obvious depending how you SPL match them.
Exceptional, simple, easy to comprehend “review” of an amplifier without all the jargon that “professional” reviewers employ (ie terms like “fluidity”, “musicality”, “foot tapping” etc BS). It is wonderful how simply you can give the viewers your take on an amplifier accompanied with measurements that everyone can understand. I am a long time subscriber and supporter and I value your honesty. Well done 👍🏼👌🏼
Not much of an integrated amplifier enthusiast but I am right there with you on the aesthetics Every component I have is black If one is looking for an affordable entry level amplifier the Yamaha 301 is a good choice as opposed to the chip amps Your amplifier reviews are well done and I would say the best I have seen on RU-vid It goes without saying that your speaker reviews are the best I would love to see you do some A/B testing of DACs and other components Why not ? I am weary of the hype reviews by desperate compromised RU-vid channels
For those without $4000 to spare (And let’s face it,most of us, don’t), the Yamaha R-N1000a was bench tested by Gene from Audioholics to very good results. His biggest problem was that the volume knob is quite suboptimal for his taste, but at least in the objective metrics, it does as well as the 2000a.
These days it's possible to make a decent rig at any price point and be able to enjoy your music, within the capabilities of the equipment. I'm a Yamaha fan and have both the least expensive integrated amp, the A-S301 at $350, and the top model A-S3200 at $8,000. To be truthful at my age and hearing ability with modest listening levels I could actually live with either one. If all I could afford was the WiiM I'm sure I would be satisfied with the performance, if not the features and build quality.
Yamaha kept the cool design from the late 1970's. I bought a CR-2020 receiver in 1979. It was a beauty and sounded good. Loudness contour was similar already then.
I've been curious about this, thank you for the review Erin! I wish you could review the whole range (N800A, N1000A, N2000A) if you had interest in it and someone could send them to you. It seems they have a very similar feature set and the main difference is the quality of the components (and inner design), so I'm really curious how much difference there is in performance. If I can't hear the difference, I don't think I would pay more than double for a VU meter (going for the N2000A over the N1000A) or maybe I could even settle for the cheapest one (N800A).
I bought the cheaper AS-1100 and couldn’t be happier. It’s built to last 2 lifetimes, great quality power supply and capacitors. Drives my MS Performance 6’s beautifully.
I would love to see a comparison with Yamaha's own stereo amplifiers around $1.000. They're very close in the power output specs (some better, actually), without any frequency response change. It would give a better idea of what 1/4 of the cost in the same brand, to see if there's any real benefit besides the VU meters and aesthetics. 😉
Thank you so much for that.. I keep looking at the Yamaha..at.the internal build, at the machining of the knobs and keep thinking..it must be at least 3 times better than product xXx
The only way I’ve heard a difference with A/B comparison is quickly switching between A and B. Reviewers who claim to hear a difference based on memory, are most likely FOS.
Got the silver one, been using it for 8 months now, guess the RN1000A is where the bang for bucks is but I love the looks and the sounds of this amp. It made my Q Acoustics speakers sound a lot better. And on the price, I mean it has everything build in with high quality, buy that in single components and you might even pay more. Got it on the black Friday discount for 3k in Europe.
I hope they update the C-5000 with a loudness contour, ypao, and dac. I just love sperates especially the 5000 series. It would nice to see all the Japanese brands bring back this classic styling. I love Yamaha because they never stopped making 2 channel amplifiers unlike Pioneer and Technics.
Personally owned several Yamaha components for about a decade from the mid ‘70s, and loved them all. The variable loudness contour has been a feature on their integrated amps and receivers since at least 1973’s CA1000 / and CR1000 the next year. First time I consciously heard a class A amp was my CA1000.
@@MadLadsAnonymous You mean variable loudness contour? I’m not sure about the entirety of audio componentry, but those Yammies were the only make I personally owned with that feature.
Great review as usual. If Yamaha would be willing again to send you products,I think a lot of your viewers would appreciate reviews their speakers, I certainly would. Good job again!!
The amplifier business is funny. We've known for decades what it takes to design an amplifier. They are much different than speakers. I've hosted blind listening tests with amplifiers/ receivers. A well designed amplifier with good parts is simply good. I don't buy into people fooling the into using them almost like an EQ. If an amp isn't neutral, it isn't right(for me anyway). People failed these blind tests most times. I hope to run into you as we transition from oil and gas to the defense business. We hope to be in the Huntsville area by this time next year. Houston is just too insane.
Thanks as always for this quality review. I don't quite understand why there would be a 20dB difference between Yamaha and Wiim, if the sine wave power tests are within 3dB 🤔 Especially because sine waves have a higher crest factor than music, so they they demand a more continuous power delivery, whereas music only needs intermittent power delivery. Any insights into that?
It’s been theorized that the input gain on the WiiM’s HDMI input is quite low to reduce noise. This seems to be the only explanation that makes sense so far.
20 decibels is craaaazy Is that down to Superior capacitor reserves of the internal power supply on the Yamaha? Thanks as always for the top-notch review!
Not sure. One of my patrons thinks it has more to do with the gain of the WiiM’s HDMI input and that it’s limited to keep noise down. This may be true. Had the same complaint when I did the review of the WiiM a couple months ago.
@@ErinsAudioCorner i thought the max 20db test at 13:09 was when you heard amps clipping or distort, but you said it was just not getting any louder on the wiim? example is dirac could reduce the output by 10dv when enabled, and then some amps would loose output capabilities.
Yeah I’m tired of these fancy words from Darko and Andrew, if there is barely any difference then why pay more, only for features I guess. Is Marantz Cinema 70s load dependent? Is it worth switching to it from WiiM Amp? Speakers I’m thinking are either Elac Carina 247.4, KEF Q750 or Q5040.
Great comparison and appreciate the informative videos. I have both the WiiM and the Yamaha. For my main listening room, it is the Yamaha. For my office, it is the WiiM (smaller room). I would have preferred the Black Yamaha R-N2000A but when the silver one went on sale in November last year, I grabbed it at $2,499.95 and have no regrets and I am still thoroughly enjoying it. I like both units for their specific uses/rooms. Please note that I may be biased as my guitar is a Yamaha, my Tenor Saxophone is a Yamaha, and I still have and use my Yamaha CDX 1100U.
I got this unit (in silver) a few months ago, and I use it with Klipsch Cornwall IV speakers, purchased shortly after returning a pair of klipsch Reference Premiere RP-8000F II which didn't have the fullness of sound I wanted.
Great review! The Yamaha is on my short list. Your explanation of the Loudness adjustments are excellent. Vincent 237 MKii or Buchardt i150 are also considered in this price range.
Best motorcycle I ever owned, and great outboard motors too! My first acoustic guitar from 30 years ago and my latest electric from a few months ago are both Yam. PA speakers, guitar amps, pianos and bass guitars have all been perfect. I bought a mid 1970’s CR 1000 receiver? Also great. Let’s just say I’m a fan!😂
If you're into equipment listening to music there are endless fantastic inexpensive options for you. If you're into the "hobby" of using music to listen to equipment. I hope you have an amazing income. One last thought, I love how just about all youtube reviews compare equipment worth thousands of dollars to equipment worth hundreds then talk about the "slight" differences. Save your money people. Cheers.
Check your matching for the ABX with a meter at the terminals too. That should be more sensitive and reliable than the SPL given that you’re testing amps and not speakers
The speaker is the same. So targeting SPL makes sense unless there is a reason to believe the amp is extremely non/linear. Which is kind of the point of listening tests; to compare against data when a discovery is made. 😎
Thanks, Erin. These are good reviews. I enjoyed the comparison. I am going to be using a wiim soon when i move. I have been able to listen in complete privacy for 10 years. I am so used to 80db thst i am going to have to find a headphone amp. It's a generation x thing. My kids hate it.
Thank you Thank you Thank you... You are the only reviewer that understands humans have very bad memories for audio... Humans cannot reliably remember sound quality for more than a few seconds... I've sold audio and setup A/B tests and only could hear real differences in systems when the comparison happens within seconds...
@ErinsAudioCorner Really nice review, mate! 👍 Love the look and build quality of most of the Yamaha gear! And it's nice to know the SQ and power output are up to snuff as well. Cheers
Yeah, small room isn’t a real problem. I discussed it more in detail in my video. But I personally would need something like the Yamaha for my living room setup.
@@UnitedRedDevil13 Erin would be able to give more info as I only use mine to power two large speakers for my patio to stream music with. It is perfect for that.
Seriously? You listened to a 4k$ and 300$ amp and you noticed some differences? Why am I even trying if you don't hear completely different sound there?
I got the 2000A back in February of this year. It’s the most expensive piece of audio equipment I’ve ever purchased but I’m very happy with it from the performance to the aesthetics. I may even buy the less costly 800A or 1000A for the rig in my home office since my Marantz may not hold out much longer.
Looks like a good choice for those who can afford it. Thanks for the review! I once had a Hegel amp in the same price range, but honestly my later built DIY LatFET amps sounded as good to my ears and cost a fraction. Sold the expensive Hegel product.
If you're willing to spend $4k on an integrated amp, pickup a separate Michael Fidler MC Pro (or MM Pro) phono preamp for about ~$600 for an end game piece of kit that will match or best just about anything on the market under $10k. ;)
Thank you very much for making this kind of videos. I have been reading and listening to many people for years stating that class A amplifiers are better (and that there are significant differences in sound) than class D amplifiers, that the more expensive the amplifier the better it sounds (lol), but in my personal experience, with the amplifiers that I have listened to, I personally do not find a significant difference, only some slight, almost imperceptible changes. I wish there were more reviews like yours a long time ago, before I ended up spending on expensive equipment that doesn't really add any "improvement", but at least I'm happy for those who can learn from this and save some money.
Cool! I have that amp (they call it a receiver). I love it. Lucky for me I got it at a reduced price because I pre-ordered it. I was waiting for a year for it to come out.
20 dB is a crazy difference in max output for the rated power difference. Worst case this means the Wiim poops out at around 5-10 watts long-term output compared to the Yamaha. It honestly beggars belief
@@ErinsAudioCorner, yeah, I figured it would be an extension of that issue, but I never would have guessed the dynamic limits were that stark compared to a well-engineered linear supplied amp.
1. It's an integrated amp. 2. Most people don't need much more power than these provide (note that Erin already mentioned a 20dB real world differential between this Yamaha and the Wiim Amp). 3. 300wpc-400wpc is usually reserved for dedicated amps and/or monoblocks like Erin's March Audio P501. So if you know you will be using low sensitivity speakers in a large room, and want loud levels that will actually require that much power, there are plenty of options. There's obviously nothing wrong with having or wanting more power on tap, but most people simply aren't going to need that much power for 90% of their listening in an average size room with most speakers.
My take on this one: overpriced amp with exceptional design. I would buy it solely for the looks if I had enough money. I had a chance to listen to R-N2000a : sounds good (nothing exceptional tough), has plenty of power but the design (especially the silver one) is so good that I had urge to buy it immediately. Design wise it is an instant classic and extremely elegant. It will fit any room with style. Most of the time I'm not considering amp based on the looks but this time I was really impressed. Quality of device is exceptional too. Has hdmi arc which is something I really like and use all the time.
Very surprising to see so huge volume difference. Was the volume on Wiim limited by gain or distortion (power)? If by gain, then if one would increase the input voltage could you reach higher output volume on the wiim or would it just fry the electronics? Kind of weird design if you can't get full power output with 2V input and 8ohm load. 🤔
This amp can be had on Amazon every now and then around $3200-3300. I look at it as though I’m paying 2500 for the amp section and 700 for its streamer section. I’m sure it can be had even cheaper second hand
I have been looking at cheaper Yamaha models and this was very helpful. I still couldn't justify the price but I guess it takes REALLY good speakers to match them and hear the difference
I’m sorry if I missed it, but did you say what speaker used for your testing and how loud you listen during your test? I think both factors will play a big difference in determining if you can hear a difference between amplifiers. I believe I have heard differences between amplifiers, but usually they are very different in design and on harder to drive speakers. I would love to test myself in an ABX test.
Thank you Yamaha for sending this to Erin! It shows confidence in your great product! Great review! I really want this thing! You sold me on the power. I was a bit sceptical. Hopefully this fall I can get one! Thanks! 🤞🏼
I would likely buy the 1200, since you get the VU meters, and I'd guess that they sound very similar (or even the same). I'd rather put those savings in the loudspeakers. 😉
@@MrRocktuga I’m all about the all in one. And build quality you get with the 2000 over the 1000. For me there is some to be said for having a high quality piece! But yes the 1000 is definitely a fantastic bang for your buck for those who want
Great review! Yamaha’s excellent loudness knob is why I’ve kept my A-S801 vs upgrading to the 1200+. I find it really imparts a warmth during low level listening to have the low end and high frequencies without the midrange.
So a 0.5db bump in high frequencies that could easily get corrected with a little EQ and more headroom. It doesn't take 10x the price to get that headroom for sure so I don't consider this a super endorsement for spending 10x the price. Look at the size of the thing too! Great work, as usual, Erin!
@AndyGrimm But the 20dB output capability difference between them is SIGNIFICANT and is something to seriously consider depending on the other metrics of your listening room size & distance, speaker sensitivity, and volume preferences that Erin mentioned. I'm personally using the ~$1300 USD Hypex Nilai500-based Stereo Amplifier from DIYclassD, and it has all the power I'll ever need and is also impedance load agnostic. Sounds d@mn good, too. But it is an amplifier only, not an integrated amp with a built-in multiple-input preamp.
@@bbfoto7248 Yes, that 20db *could* be significant, depending on your listening preferences. My point was more that there's a lot of options out there that aren't $4k. You could also combine the Wiim pre-amp with a dedicated amp and probably not even have that 0.5db boost in HF. But also, imagine combining this Wiim amp with some 95dB PSA MT-110-Ms. You wouldn't need a bunch of power.
Laugh all the purebloods want but I have actually become fond of the way modern AV amps can use DTS X and alike to seperate vocals to the middle with instruments to the side and top in a 3.1.2 setup. Really creates a tremendous sound stage even in a small space where large speakers are not an option while also giving better seperation in the sounds. Mixed with proper room correction technology and a proper crossover setup the results are shocking compared to a traditional 2ch setup. You should look into this for a topic to discuss at some point. Or did you?
The YPAO Volume, an aurally correct loudness control works even better, you should also test it intensively! I have already experienced the yamaha R-N (R-N803/R-N1000A/R-N2000A) HiFI YPAO in many different rooms and with many different loudspeakers and it was ALWAYS a clear advantage in favour of YPAO! But you have to get to know the corrected sound image first. It's like switching from dynamic picture mode to film maker mode on a TV. Try the very good amplifier quality of an inexpensive Yamaha A-S301/501.
Perhaps the superior attribute you're referencing is related to speed and control, rather than HF bias during calibration. The Yamaha has inherently more robust current capabilities. In well executed ABX testing, those capabilities would elicit subjective speed and control. Bass speed is a function of current pulse capability. Control, from low output impedance. So essentially 100% of the time detection of superior 𝙢𝙞𝙙𝙗𝙖𝙨𝙨 𝙖𝙩𝙩𝙖𝙘𝙩 𝙥𝙪𝙣𝙘𝙝 𝙖𝙣𝙙 𝙬𝙚𝙞𝙜𝙝𝙩, ... impressive. Golden or not, great ears. Certainly plausible that HF bias during calibration was a factor. But speed and control of a capable amplifier is absolutely a subjective attribute. (re "speed and control", prolly shoulda included a trigger warning for flowery audiophile lingo)
These retro integrated/stereo receivers with VU METERS seem a trend; NAD just did one with wood sides even. They are also rather expensive for what they are. For the money or Lless I’d rather have the IOM ncore or purifi monoblocks with VU METERS (the meters are larger and better looking anyway) and a smaller preamp/DAC/streamer like the Schiit Saga or WiiM. More power. Better sound
I know Yamaha quite well. Their products are, for the most part, quite solid. However, if I spent that much money, I would consider the Parasound Halo Hint 6 integrated amplifier. I own an affordable Emotiva TA-2 integrated amp/ FM receiver that can do a good job for a lot less without having to look at one of those "Bonsai-Origami" class D amps.
I don't think that a Bang&Olufsen class D amplifier (Ice Power) would have this issue. However, meanwhile their active speakers make a good amplifier plus some good speakers look bad for the same prize. After many years with several HiFi brands I ended up with Bang&Olufsen, although initially thinking ,during the 1980's and 90's, that B&O is overprized junk. Brands keep changing their products, sometimes for better. And so did B&O after the turn of the millenium with the launch of the phenomenal Beolab 5.
Great Video as ever - 2 questions related to the A/B comparison. 1. Have you tried A/B tested or will you - the Yamaha against another 'cheap' class-D amp but one that has PFFB implemented (like the Aiyima A70 or Fosi Audio V3 Monos) - especially with their 48V10A power supplies (which should be a better match in Power) As I am curious if it is the load dependency that is the difference that you heard would you hear a difference when it should be 'solved' by these amplifiers 2. Given the WiiM Amp as EQ - did you try and level match the Frequency response (i.e. remove the extra brightness from the WiiM) and then try and do an A/B test?
