Coming from an engineering design and manufacturing background myself, it all boils down to the bottom line. Seiko has determined that it is not worth the extra expense to increase fidelity in their manufacturing and inspection process in order to correct the flaws that exist on their watches because they know that people will still continue to purchase their watches regardless of the flaws. I would venture a guess that there are Seiko employees who have suggested changes to increase quality, who have been shot down by the bean counters and upper management because it would reduce profits. I speak from experience here. An unfortunate reality that not only plagues Seiko, but other companies for all types of products. That being said, I am guilty of encouraging such behavior, by continuing to purchase Seiko watches. I am willing to overlook the flaws because I like the overall design aesthetic and pride that I take in owning a Seiko branded watch. Keep up the great honest reviews!
My background is in supporting a crappy web app that our users know is crap but live with it. It's funny because the user base has literally told the execs to their face that the web app is garbage but they just keep giving the same BS every year that "we've invested (X) millions in technology...blah..blah...blah" But in my case, the company is run by morons and they, in turn, hire more morons to design the tech. It's a farce.
@@nickberetanos7541 Unfortunately not the case. Look at the proxy buying services like Buyee- they know they get duds and account for that in their return policies and warranties.
It's a very handsome watch but misalignment at 1k is unacceptable. I bought the white dial king samurai at less than half the price. No alignment issues. Have to say as pretty as the front is, the the architecture of the back of the samurai case is gorgeous. IMO it's the most stunning case back of any non see through design with all the cut outs giving the sculpted look of armor pieces. I find myself even taking the watch off to admire the case back at times. I'm in the market for a black tactical looking watch and this would have been a good one but I'm glad I saw your vid first. I wouldn't buy it now unless I was in the store and could confirm dial alignment.
I don’t intend to buy a Seiko for the foreseeable future. I recently read the ‘Returns Policy and Customer Service’ section, from an online store in America, that has a chapter called ‘Misalignment and Quality Control Issues’ that states: Most of our watches have a disclaimer about alignment and QC, and what to expect, we are not responsible for alignment issues or QC. Please contact manufacturer. We ship watches exactly as we receive them from the manufacturer. If its good for the manufacturer’s QC, it is good for us. This was a small part that I copied, as I didn’t want this reply to be too long. I had only seen one statement very similar to this before. Since reading it the first time, I now, always make a point of reading the ‘Returns Policy’ from every shop/online shop that I want to buy a watch from. I also make a point of finding out what the shop/online store is like from places like ‘Trustpilot’ and other sites like it, to see what the customer service is like when there is a problem with a purchased item. All shops/online stores can seem great when the watch has arrived perfectly packaged and in perfect condition. What is more important, is what a shop/online store is like to deal with when there is a problem. Now I only buy from places where I can be sure, that any problems will be sorted out in a professional and timely manner. Great review and a beautiful watch that I would normally have wanted to buy, but it’s a pain finding a shop/online store that will check honestly for misalignment issues for you, and still have great offers to tempt you. Personally, I do like the size of the buckle and the keeper.
Been buying Seiko's since the 90s & they used to be my favourite brand, but over the last few years EVERY Seiko I've bought has had issues. All the above, dust on dial, wonky cyclops... I can't see myself ever buying another Seiko.
We shouldn't have to do it, but my reasoning is if I like the watch enough and can get it at the right price, I will have the alignment issues rectified in future when I visit my watch repairer. The more perplexing issue to me is, that culturally, the Japanese as a whole seem to embrace the values of honour and duty, but somehow along the way, SEIKO appear to have consciously decided to drop those heritage values as a corporate entity. Saving face is not as important as saving a few extra dollars. " Hajiwoshire"
@@ConsecDesign lol because the Japanese are so famous for being laid back and tolerant of poor quality. They literally have words for this exact thing. Kaizen. Jidoka. Seiko sending out watches with chronic and easily fixed QC failings is in direct contradiction to those two principles, and to another of Japan's most influential exports, The Toyota Way. Expecting these failings from a Japanese company is like expecting a German to be funny.
I’ve mentioned my Seiko issues on this channel before. I don’t own any Seiko watches anymore. However, as a budding watch service and repair guy, Seiko provides me with a lot of income to fix their faults, to regulate a brand new watch that won’t keep time well, to disassemble the calendar works because the day wheel won’t seem to work correctly. 8000 units might be limited, but what is definitely limited is those QC issues. In my opinion if you want alignment from a Japanese watch company, buy a Citizen or a Casio. They’re consistently better.
Solution: If something is misaligned. Don't buy the watch. If you don't buy this watches online it's even easier. Just go elsewhere. I saw the watch in a local watch shop. That watch wasn't misaligned .
Pete, discovered your channel recently and really enjoy your content. Petros is great - it feels like someone who's not a watch nerd doing a review/thoughts. He should definitely return.
20years ago when working in a ford factory - I witnessed that there was a completely separated assembly line for units destined to the Japanese market. The difference in the units? just tighter tolerances and quality control. what that does mean in an almost fully automated assembly line? The number of units fabricated before you triger quality checks and procedures is sensibly smaller and on average you deviate much less from "perfection"
I appreciate your honest assessment. I saved up for a long time and bought a Seiko (my first ever "big" purchase) and had a problem with the box (not the watch itself). I contacted Seiko and they were unhelpful, uninterested, and later unresponsive. Needless to say, I won't be buying another.
I've stopped buying seikos. My last purchase was the Sla021. I've made a promise to myself that I won't buy another Seiko until they fix all these alignment issues.
I've loved and owned Seiko watches for years. I have a Samurai with the white waffle dial, very similar to this one and apart from all the same issues, my biggest disappointment was the fact it didn't say JAPAN on the dial. All of my Japan Seikos are great. The Malaysian, Chinese or wherever other than Japan, not so great. I've complained a couple of times to Seiko about the lack of Q.C.of their watches here in Australia and they get a bit shirty about it. Q.C. has a whole new meaning now. Quick and Cheap.
Spot on Peter - I recently purchased a Samurai SRPG21K. I'm assuming my model ending in a "K" is Korean made? Had to return it for a large scratch on the case back but also noticed hour markers out of alignment with the bezel and the hands were extremely loose when changing the time. Disappointing because like you I really like the Samurai range.
Fair points about bias, and Seiko QC. I would love to own a SPB143, but I have seen too many pictures of poorly aligned ones, and heard too many stories about marginal-bad accuracy to spend $1600+ CAD on one.
I own an SPB143 and I love the design. I’ve been lucky with perfect alignment but it does lose quite a bit more time than any of my Swiss watches. I would recommend an SW200 or ETA 2824 variant for the money such as Hamilton or Tissot. There’s a lot of micro brands that also run on Swiss movements too. I have a Zelos Swordfish diver that runs on an ETA movement. I wish Seiko made an affordable competition to an ETA 2824 but they don’t anymore.
Very sharp looking watch, Peter, but those alignment issues would drive me nuts. I recently took a chance on my first Seiko dive watch, an SBDY085 (Mini Turtle, Japanese model) from Sakura watches. For around $350.00, I figured it wasn't a "big risk." Everything lines up perfectly. I don't understand if the Japanese models are "screwed together" properly in Japan, why the other Seiko factories can't seem to get the job done. You'd think they'd use the same machinery and systems in all of their factories. I have to agree that based on what I read on the forums and see on RU-vid watch channels like yours, Seiko just doesn't give a damn. I've kind of been lusting for an SPB143 or 297, but I don't think I'd chance being disappointed with a $1200 Seiko; I'd rather go with the new Christopher Ward Trident 300 or something comparable for similar money, but more consistent build quality. I guess they keep selling very well, or they'd do something about this issue....sad.
i just had to return a seiko prospex because of bezel alignment being off as well. Such lack of QC is just unacceptable. And for $1000 would it kill them to put a damn emblem on the crowns? Seriously, even cheap Timex put design on crowns....small details that just show lack of care and thought. Still a nice watch but for $1000 you expect more than sloppy.
Peter, you are almost 100% correct, these quality control issues are inexcusable as you imply, but then you try to excuse them by praising the design or their watch making history. Bottom line, there are no legitimate excuses and the fact that people keep buying them is a real problem. Seiko won’t change unless we do. I, for one, will never buy one, too many other well made watches out there.
Excellent vid as always and your greek "character " Petros? Man you just got me. Really well done! You took me back to Greece and listen again to an old friend. εφφαρίστο
The large brands doesnt care about us watchnerds, fiddling with misaligments etc. They focus on the average buyer, that wont notice and wont care anyway. Thats their business model, and it makes a lot of financial sense. Seiko (and other large brands), are there for their shareholders, as they should be. If we want focus to detail and customer service, we should go with the smaller-medium sized brands, where each sales and repeat customer, actually means something. For those, it makes business sense, to cater for our "nedry" requests.
Totally agree. Also, unlike micro brands and Chinese manufacturers who sell online, Seiko and the other large watch manufacturers have traditional retail distribution networks and authorized dealers who need to make a profit. Wholesale price of watches is typically 40-50%. I actually think it's amazing that Seiko can produce such nice affordable watches with some of the best dial work in the industry (though subpar bracelets) at the prices they do, when you factor in that discounts of 20-35% or more are not uncommon. Micro brands and the Chinese manufacturers are making batches of say 200 watches at a time, whereas Seiko are making watches at a HUGE scale! And it's more accurate to say many of the former are watch assemblers rather than manufacturers, since they are often buying ready made movements, cases, and other parts and simply putting them together with a new dial design (though sometimes it's a straight homage).
It’s got some faults but looks great! I picked one up second hand for half the list price. So look out for a second hand peace. I also got a black leather strap with green stitching! This lifted the watch to an other level.
It's called a review. When I buy something on Amazon I look at the reviews. How I base whether I'll buy or not. Watch reviews help me consider whether I make the buy or pass it up. Thanks Peter for your reviews 👍
Thanks Peter 🙏 Funny intro , if you really like something i don't think that's biased same if you don't it's just the way it is . My opinion on Seiko is most of their watches are bought by people who are not watch nerds and don't nit-pick like we do .
I recently bought a Timex + Hodinkee Skindiver limited edition 10,000 pieces. Not very limited . But look at it this way there 7.6 billion people in the world & only 10,000 will have the same watch 🤗
Seiko is amazing. Almost. It feels like they put in 90% effort my don’t care about the last 10%. Alignment issues and bracelets seem to be a constant issue.
I’ve owned close to 2 dozen Seikos over the years and all but a few have had quality issues. I decided years ago I’d never pay more than $200 for a Seiko again. As I’ve reduced my collection down to 8 pieces, only 1 Seiko remains. A SUR307 quartz that I bought new for $118 usd. It has sapphire, everything is lined up, it’s accurate and even the seconds hand hits the mark. The bracelet is cheap but on a nice strap it’s a great grab and go and packs a ton of value. I love their designs but I will not forgive their poor quality.
My King Samurai has a misaligned chapter ring, the date wheel isnt centred in the window, the cyclops is misaligned, the movement is +24s and the beat error is 1.6 seconds!
I think it's perhaps more accurate to say that the core Seiko brand (as opposed to Grand Seiko) doesn't care about watch collectors and enthusiasts as opposed to consumers in general. I imagine Seiko make the vast majority of their profits from selling to mass market consumers via department stores and other retailers. The average consumer does not notice fractionally misaligned bezels or chapter rings. Retail margins on watches are 40-50%--this is why we consumers can often pick up a Seiko at 20-35% off retail and the seller can still get a tiny bit of profit. Seiko thus needs to be able to manufacture an affordable watch at 50-60% retail price, while earning a profit for itself. This is in contrast to microbrands and Chinese manufacturers who sell direct via the Internet and don't have to provide margin for a retail network--and who benefit a lot from copying/tweaking watch design work that Seiko do, as well as buy their movements from Seiko. Which is to say, I imagine a lot of the QC issues are due to Seiko creating mass manufacturing processes to enable its economic model to work. Perhaps they use too many of these processes for their more expensive watches and should have different processes for them (smaller batch production with better QC and regulation). But it is what it is right now. It's why I can occasionally buy a modern day Seiko 5 for $185 on sale, or a Cocktail Time with amazing dial work for $350, which is about the same price as one of the Aliexpress watches from the better Chinese watch assemblers like San Martin.
I'm in agreement, Pete, I think it looks fantastic, the pop of green on black is amazing, but I can't stand flaws in quality control, not when the watch is over a grand in consumer co$t.
Coincidentally, I happen to be wearing my pepsi Samurai while watching this video. This new watch is definetely a good looker but for the price tag, you would think that the quality should be much improved compared to mine which had a price tag around 400 US dollars. It appears that one common denominator is the missaligned chapter ring and dial. On mine the Bezel aligns with the chapter ring. The metal keeper on the rubber strapps is very uncomforble to wear and won't stay in place, I don't know why Seiko does not know this after all these years, I guess they do not care. I really dislike that the hideous clyclops is now very common on most of these affordable watches. Thank you for the honest review.
So in summary - a very nice design with good quality materials. Careless build quality when it comes to chapter ring and bezel insert alignment. (Those things are correctable.) Strap hardware that is crude. Seiko should do better and we all know that they are capable of that. Good review.
Yasoo Peter Petros was a happy go lucky import by the sounds of him and he was dead on precise on the review 😀👍 I just picked up a grand turtle the other day and you know I didn't check the bezel alignment. So got home and noticed it was mis aligned. Same as the watch you just reviewed. I said GAMOTO! Was very annoyed. I will take it back to send back to Seiko. A couple of years ago a bought a baby MM 200 Padi edition with Pepsi bezel mis aligned. Got it back from Seiko and still the same mis aligned. Called Seiko repair centre in Sydney and the person at Seiko actually said to me nothing wrong with the bezel on your watch it is within Seiko's acceptable tolerance. I was so passed off at his reply. I'm a Seiko holiday aswell but I said to my self not buying any more Seiko unless it's a Grand Seiko. But 2 years later I've probably have bought more than 8 Seiko Prospex watches. Cheers Peter.
Hi Vasilios, I can understand tolerance levels but at what price point do we as consumers say enough is enough...its just not right I think.. cheers bro
Beautiful watch, and I agree with you on the bezel alignment/ limited edition.......Not so good..... thank you again for a great video....I always enjoy your thoughts on these things I love..... Ciao
Thank you for approaching this topic. One could easily come across as purely negative in talking about Seiko's QC but I think you've made the case without going too far, which would be easy to do. I also have a few in my collection and they play a role - mainly the "beater" watches that see wrist time for project work, getting knocked around. Would I buy another? Good question, leaning against, but you never know. By the way, for some positivity, that SLA 043 is absolutely beautiful. Keep up the good work! The last few vids have been great, the world map, for example.
Hi Pete I've given up on Seiko watches now just can't justify paying good money for all the QC problems you get when you buy a Seiko which is a crying shame as a really love there designs, great review as always mate 👍
If you have the chance to try it on and inspect it before agreeing to pay, this can be an outstanding experience. I actually can't believe I scored this for 380 euros...no misalignment issues. Only found a spec of dust under the saphire crystal. Love the wearability of this stealthy offering. This design combo actually makes it wear with a slimmer profile than your usual Samurais. Great take on the possible QC issues. Best would be to go to your AD or see the watch in person, otherwise it could be bad for any true enthusiast, especially if you have OCD. Peace! 🤘🏻
@ Falcon Time: Completely agree! I was going to buy both of the Seiko ‘Save the Ocean’ Manta Ray watches, but because of constant QC problems changed my mind, and have stopped buying Seiko watches. I have since started buying Citizen watches and love the quality, and the price. I can’t see myself ever going back to Seiko!
Whenever one can get a great deal on a Seiko...the bezel is always off (mainly it is the chapterring...which can be adjusted...however one needs to remove the whole movement to get to it).
So has anyone with the alignment issues returned their watch to Seiko under warranty and request the watch to be corrected? Curious to know if this is an option. I realize that it should have been right the first time and also buyer beware, but if Seiko did care, they would accept it and either replace or repair.
Yes. Over the past four years I've had to send three back due to misalignment issues. Seiko are not very good at getting them back in a timely fashion. The last one took four months before I got it back. No, I will not be buying a Seiko again.
I think the unbiased vs sponsored question is more in the sense of "did they pay you to say this, or is it what you really think" of course everyone has an inherent bias but that's not what it is about.
True, The majority of micro brands or straps or watch cases etc I get on the channel are donated and not needed to be returned, therefore I put the "paid promotion" tag on the videos. That said, any supplier has zero input into anything I say or do on my channel...its my channel. If they do not agree to these terms, I do not accept their watch or straps etc.. cheers
Seems to be a common issue with Seiko. My SPB151 not only has a misaligned bezel but the date is not quite lining up in the window. Nothing anyone except the wearer would notice but annoying nonetheless. The thing is the watch is so damn accurate that I don't want to send it back in case they replace it with something I have to regulate to get it running as well. Just the other day I bought a Bulova Sea King and the bezel is perfect. Every single second marker is lining up with the corresponding one on the dial. So it is possible to get it right.
At this price point this should not be happening. I bought a spb187 reaceantly the bezel is a half a click off, there is a large piece of something on the dial and the lume is poor compared to every other seiko I've ever had. It's frustrating because it's a great watch.
Like you said, if someone wants to wear this watch every day and wants to do so comfortably, it's probable that that metal keeper would annoy them greatly. Would have been nice to have a rubber keeper included as an alternative; what's that gonna cost them, 20, 30 cents max.?
I've been done with Seiko for the last 2 years. I went with Orient and never regret it. Being a student and don't have the money yet enjoys the hobby.This exact watch you are reviewing in this video costs between 700$+ in Sweden. Not worth it not even half of that. Specially the thing you've mentioned like the beezle not matching and the glass is mineral not even sapphire etc.
Good and honest review. Seiko just doesn't care about us letting QC continues to slip like this. Seiko only cares about taking money from its customers. Many silly watch enthusiasts still suck up to this brand like it is their grandfather's business. World is not getting any better with these people and this brand.
If at all possible, I buy JDM only. I realise there are no special guarantees, but still. And for the model under review: I prefer its slightly smaller brother, the SRPH99K1 (SBDY121 JDM) (different 'tortoise' case, compass bezel). Somewhat less difficult to find (LE of 8K units) and less expensive. No cyclops, canvas strap. If you're lost in the outback, a compass bezel will help you more than a dive timer ;-)
Great review, Peter!! Just my two cents: In this day and age, black pvd coated steel mechanical watches are mistaken for smart watches... This is the main reason I stay away from them.. Also, I don't think the PVD coating will age well... and unless one is aiming to flip that watch in 6 months, I suspect that is going to become too "beat up" to wear or to sell in a few years...
I avoid all black dial/bezel watches to distance myself from the smart watch aesthetics. The black edition samurai in this video is gorgeous but I wouldn't wear it.
It was only a matter of time before your alter-ego would make an appearance 😉 Great to see you having a bit of fun with your channel. As it is, I think the Petros review was the TLDR version of your review, and a good one at that! 😂
I wouldn't mind an honest review though. If there're no review about it. I might not know about their flaws and buy it impulsely. The best course is always call them out. Because if he stop reviewing them, there will just another channel that review them
Hi Peter, Seiko refuses to acknowledge that telling time is the last reason we wear watches. I have a love hate attitude about Seiko because of their indifference on quality....
I had exactly the same misalignment issue on a King Samurai recently which I found unacceptable. So I returned the watch to the seller. I had some discussions with people about Seiko price increases and there is an argument Seiko should be increasing their prices as they have sold their watches too cheaply for decades. I believe they should get their QC issues right alongside their price increases.
I totally agree Seiko should do better with its alignment and QC issues, as well as regulate more of their movements in higher end watches. However, I am also convinced watch collectors tend to be OCD and let little things bother them. Above a certain price level, these QC issues are unacceptable, which is why I never buy expensive Seikos. But I'm just not all that bothered if a bezel is just slightly off on a watch costing, say $400 or less. Seiko aren't the only watch manufacturer with misaligned bezels or dates. I also think Seiko has just become known for having QC issues--every single RU-vidr reviewing a Seiko diver mentions it in every single video--so collectors immediately check for misalignment with any new Seiko. Which they probably don't do with many other watches. So, in addition to having real QC issues, Seiko's problems are also noticed more.
I agree about quality control issues and that Seiko is now known for them. I’m afraid to buy any Seiko at any price point because of that fact. Such a shame because there is otherwise so much to love.
Does any watch brand genuinely care about the customer's wants/wishes? Only as far as what it takes to still have access to the customer's wallet. Brand loyalty is a one-way street. Always best to just walk away to another brand if the current one isn't doing what you want it to do.
I see a lot of comments saying to buy a Grand Seiko instead if you want quality, but why would I want to get a 8000-10000$ watch from a company that doesn't care about their 1000$ customers one bit? After all the entry level still is where their main market is. This just reflects really poorly on their overall business ethics. 1000$ is not small change, even in the mechanical watch world and there are competitors that offer a lot more dedication to quality far below that price range. If they rely purely on their brand name and (admittedly great) optical design, but neglect QC, then they will be in for a surprise in the not so distant future. They're ruining their brand name with this kind of behavior.
I have this watch. It has no alignment issues. HOWEVER, the movement was completely blitzed out of the box. It was +40! spd off, AVERAGE, It's actually worse in some positions. The beat error was 3.5ms! I sent it in to Seiko for fixing, but completely upset for sure. It should have also bracelet option. Couldn't care less whether it's truly limited or not.
You're so right Peter. Seiko does verything to keep my love hate relation with the brand alive.... Limited editions of 8.000 pieces, up pricing, missalignements but gorious dials and cases.... I whish they looked more to micro brands who offer more bang for the bugs....
I have this watch and love it. The new "Night Vision" lume for this Black Series is unparalleled in light to dark transition, although, their claim of it being better than the usual LumiBrite is questionable. It lasted longer than my Sumo, but was bested by my SBDC061. Sapphire and ceramic are appreciated, but certainly late comers for the brand, and sad to still get only the 4R35 at the price point, although I only paid $600 USD. Still pricey. My take on Seiko is that the brand has deservedly lost respect, due to the many QC issues. Alignment on mine is fine, but I was lucky I guess. Individual releases here and there are worth it, but being a leader for affordable dive watches? Nope. Recommended for your first automatic? Nope. Watches worth the purchase price? Nope. Much better stuff on the market, but, watches are luxury items, and sometimes it's worth it to get a Seiko. It was for me, for this watch, and I'm happy with mine.
The real Seiko customers are mid-tier jewellery shops in shopping malls who buy the inventory to fill their window displays and sell to regular consumers. The majority of Seiko buyers don’t care about misalignment - and watch nerds are a too small slice of the market for Seiko to worry about.
I would never buy a Seiko diver online sight unseen with their QC issues. The Samurai I tried on here in a jewelry store was perfect but unfortunately full tote Seiko RRP.
Hey Peter great review - I’m not a big fan of the keeper too - apart from that I love it and the lime lume is addictive to keep looking at-. My motto never pay full retail - purchased for $800AU including express delivery etc which I’m comfortable with- keep up the great reviews 👍👍
I thought Petros was hysterical. Years ago the Muppets did a movie called Muppets Take Manhattan thar featured a diner owner who spoke just like that. No surprises about Seiko, but that was one of the worst examples.
Petros was "all Greek to me" as they say, but he was great. 🙂 Two things bug me about SEIKO now: 1. These unaligned chapter rings. 2. Why all of a sudden do so many of these watches just have to have drilled lugs??? To me, having drilled lugs on an $9,000 Grand Seiko just looks very strange. Luckily my one GS has a very small pinhole diameter in the drilled lugs and so it's tolerable, but prefer a more finished look on an expensive watch.
I think that Seiko should really make 60 click bezel. These half steps are terrible for them, and not needed. Really like this green lume, because it looks that the watch is glowing in the day time. Love it. I'm also not a fan of black pvd. If this was stainless with a gray green lume dial... hmm. Problem for me is that Seiko is really not a thousand dollar watch. They are not that good. For me... I would buy an Oris every day over this.
The keepers have to go. It’s a letdown to an otherwise nice strap. My SPB149 has the same, and while the strap is different, that keeper kind of ruins it for me. Otherwise, this seems like a great diver, but at this price I’d expect better QC and the 6R35 movement.
