Self Bow Lethality, Speed Testing, and Design Efficiency Discussion 

I have wanted to make a true Two Rivers long bow but I cannot quite bring myself to make a bow "two hand spans taller than the man who shoots the bow", that is just such a LONG bow.

@@stevenkeil7869 hey Steven, thanks for the watch and the comment. In this video, I used a heat gun to harden my hickory bows. In My latest experiment, I used charcoal fire in a backyard pit to harden a hickory bow. I think I did too much because the bow became much stiffer and ended up causing some very detrimental transverse fractures over the back of the bow which left it unusable.

Oh, and this tips comes from a guy who has made 2 longbows that shoot 180 or over fps with 530 gn arrows and 29" draw, the slower one is 53# and faster 51# at 29". The faster shoots with 28" draw around 177-178 fps those same arrows. I have also made a 45# short bow that shoots those same arrows 175 fps with 28" draw and it stacks horrible in that draw length because of it's shortness. But even still, only 2 to 3 fps difference to the faster longbow even tough 6 lbs less draw weight.

@@jkre Those are seriously high performing bows. What material are they made of? I have always kept my last 10 or so inches of limb static (barely bending) blending a Holmgaard style tip with a flat bow design. Sounds like should get away from this design to discover more speed in my bows.

@@gettingclose4206 my fastest is fire hardened service berry self bow (hedeby inspired longbow) with no string follow, finished this year but most of it made last summer. Second fastest is bamboo backed jatoba longbow, that one is 4 years old and poorly build with an inch or so with string follow, i'm fairly sure those materials on better build quality and design would shoot over 190 fps if not even close to 200 fps. And the third short bow is sinew backed osage, but the sinew is glued with titebond III, so it works less than ideal on it. It also has some string follow and is also 4 years old. Back then i wasn't yet as good as nowadays as a bowyer, so if i would do the same builds today with better design and right kind of glue, i'm sure i would be able to increase the speed even more. Ridgid tips are only good if they are narrow (light) enough. If they are not, then they will slow down the bow. If you have ever thrown an atlatl or similar, you perhaps have noticed that you only get good distance and speed if the dart it light enough, because in that, like in bows, the leverage is working against the arm or limb. But unlike in bows, in atlatlthe lever increase the distance the projectile is being accelerated with, so even though the lever works against you, the pros still out weight the cons thanks to the extra acceleration distance. But in bows the draw length determines the acceleration distance, so the levers cons are not as easy to overcome. It is even mentioned in traditional bowyers bible, "if the levers are not lighter than bending limb tip, the design will not perform any better than more conventional designs" (not sure if that is word to word, but the meaning is accurate quote from the book)

That is one conclusion I have come to wonder about, my backed bows seem slower compared to the unbacked bow. I BELIEVED backing a bow with raw hide would add speed, but that does not seem to be true. And hearing you say that it adds weight with out adding force makes me sure I have been incorrect. I want my bows to be bullet proof, so many of them end up backed. My raw hide backings are applied for various reasons but usually to save a bow that has developed some stress cracks or save wood that has had worm holes under the bark, etc. Honestly, Tam was backed because after a few years of shooting him I noticed some transverse stress cracks. Sulin was backed because I believed it would allow for a shorter bow design. Other bows had wood knots or insect holes I worried about. I believe my raw hide at least initially adds a few pounds of draw but I have not tested this extensively. I do believe an unbacked bow would be faster but I generally have some reason (often bad bow crafting on my part or poor wood characteristics) to back my bows.

Hey man, I backed with 2 layers of raw hide because I thought raw hide would add to speed. I do not believe raw hide adds to speed at this time. I think all raw hide does is protect the back of the bow. I think it adds a small amount of weight, which probably reduces speed some, but I like the protection on my bow back. I would stick to one layer or no raw hide backing at this point in my bow building experience. The target is an industrial closed cell high density foam I ordered, 210 US dollars. It works great for allowing me to shoot broadheads in practice.

Thank you for watching my video, i have heard a lot about that book. I should read it. Wood crown, i would guess makes the tension on the back of the bow more focused on the back center line and would probably cause tinsel stress lines if not failure. I do not know this, but that is my guess about high crowned staves. Does high crown affect speed?

That being said, i build bows with the staves i have available and have some highly crowned staves that made bows. I prefer less crown, i would feel that distributes tinsel strength across the whole bow back.

Wheel of Time - what a great fantasy series! Not terribly in love with the show that came out. Thank you for the comment. I am working on a very long Hickory bow (72 inches) that I plan to venture into the Asian style shooting (thumb draw with the arrow on the right of the bow) for next deer season.

@@gettingclose4206 Agreed, great read but pretty ordinary show. I also can't stand how inaccurate Rand's bow is to what was described in the book and that he carries it permanently strung! 72in is very long. You're getting into english longbow territory there. It will be interesting to see what your chrono says it can do. Likely indestructible though. I enjoy seeing people trying things that traditional wisdom says doesn't work. I make bows out of Australian soft wood, it's apparently not doable either. SO far the wisdom has proven correct but i'm getting closer lol.

@@waruikazi I measured the bow nock to nock it was really about 69 inches. still a big bow. I am hoping to draw it to 29 inches though so that is about right for a hickory longbow. If your bows fail or get stress cracks along the back like mine often do, back them with raw hide. Most all my bows end up backed with rawhide for protection from the stress of the tension on the back fibers. I bet it would help your soft wood bows. i have a raw hide backing video.

Thank you, I know you are right. I love the names of the Wheel of Time. My excuse is, I do not make horn bows and this bow was a unique bow build for me. It was a bend through the handle short bow and for some reason it seemed like a female. That combination of weapon and being unique made me name it Aviendha.

@@gettingclose4206 well, let's just assume that Aiel in the wetlands would have to use wetlander materials since hide glue and sinew prefer a dryer climate 😁

@@cornholio1612 true WOT fan, thank you for your gracious comments and you are the first person who has caught my bow name origin.

@@gettingclose4206 what dimensions do you think I will need for a ash flat bow, 100lb with a 32 inch draw?

@@tonymaurice4157 Holly crap! 100 lbs and 32 inch draw. What a missile launcher! Well I have never made one higher than low 60s with a 28 inch draw but I will give these dimensions a go. . . I would say 76 inches long if you want a static riser (you think about 8 inches of non-working bow), bend through the handle bow you may can make it 70 inches. And my approach is start with a long stave, cut down later if needed. Wide limbs, to distribute the tensile strain on the back of the limb. Shoot for 2 inches wide if the stave can accommodate that. Good luck, please send pictures or post update please.

I have listened to a series of books called the Wheel Of Time - By Robert Jordan. Great books, if you have the patients. I have listened to them through 3 times. I love the series, it is 13 books long, very similar to Lord of the Rings. Anyway, when I am building my bows some characteristics or difficulty I run into, makes me think the bow matches a character form the Wheel of Time books. So that is how I name my bows.

I pull to 27 at full, i short draw some of my bows that stack though.

@@gettingclose4206 Did you measure your draw weight at 27 or 28 inchs? Thank you for the information. You make good bows.

@@jkhippie5929I specify what length I measure the draw weight at on my bows, but I see I did not specify on my video. Thanks for the observation. As a bow maker, I have in mind the maximum draw length I believe the bow can handle. Most bows I measure at 28” on my tillering board. I feel like most of the stickbow world feels draw weight should be measured at 28” when possible. 2 bows I have are quite short, 60 and 61 inches, (Avienda and Sulin respectively) in total length unstrung. These bows I measure the draw weight at 27”.

@@gettingclose4206 Great work. I have been looking for good research on the topic. Good experiment it has helped me with my builds too, thanks.

@@jkhippie5929 Thank you. I am definitely not the best bow builder, but Perfect tiller, lighter smaller tips, and Longer bows with more backset should be the formula for faster better performing bows. the difficulty is in building these bows.

Thank you, I have 2 new bows I am working on for this coming season. An Osage bow and a Hickory bow, I made the Hickory long and I am trying to shoot it with a Asian style release ( thumb release and the arrow on the opposite side of the bow). I want to try to kill a deer with this new technique. I will put out a video to the difficult learning process. I will look at your videos.