Self-Defense: Reality and Fantasy: A Conversation with Matt Thornton (Episode  

Kind of flippant, but maybe the best advice for self defense is “don’t be at stupid places at stupid times around stupid people” It’s not a cure-all but it’ll take you far

Just went on the Sam Harris website to sign up, wanted to let you know how absolutely taken aback I was at the options available, how creative and generous, it really was appreciated, I was so engrossed in this episode so can’t wait to resume, thank you so so much x

This made me decide to start training again and get my purple belt. I actually miss those days when I was almost too exhausted to drive home after a great, productive training day.

Sam Harris, former bodyguard for the Dalai Lama. This man never ceases to amaze.

I was very pleasantly surprised at how much I enjoyed this conversation

I AM a member, and I'm still receiving the non-subscriber feed on RU-vid... Sam Harris has the ability to be able to lay out an argument or make a point better than anyone I've ever heard before, and his vocabulary is astounding as well as interesting.

That episode was so much more interesting than I expected

Nice conversation. As a boxer, kick boxer and athlete, I've always found that guys who were slower and less explosive were better suited to grappling. That said, if my back and neck weren't wrecked, I would love to add BJJ to my skillset.

I just listened to the Megan Kelly interview… very well done man! Although I disagree with some things I have tremendous respect for your plain honesty! Thanks for doing that interview

Tibetans told VICE World News that the meaning of this common expression used to tease and teach children is completely lost in cultural interpretation and its English translation. The correct phrase in Tibetan for this joke is “Che le sa”, which roughly translates to “Eat my tongue.” English is the Dalai Lama’s second language and Indian news outlets have previously reported that the leader speaks in broken English at public events. Jigme Ugen, a second-generation Tibetan refugee living in the U.S., explains how this display of affection was born out of a game played between the Tibetan elderly and children. Kids who go up to their grandfather, for instance, are asked to kiss their grandfather’s forehead, touch their noses and kiss them “Then [the grandfather] says that I’ve given you everything so the only thing left is for you to eat my tongue,” Ugen said. “The child probably never gets the candy or money but gets a beautiful lesson about life, love and family.”

I strenuously disagree with Harris on numerous issues but I'm self aware enough to recognize when he's right. There are few thinkers more articulate than Sam regardless how you feel about his position.

I love you Sam. And, yes I am on your subscriber feed. It just so happens that RU-vid is a lot more convenient

Very articulate and very well put. All of it.

Ok, I totally agree with what he's saying about training, but yes absolutely if it's life and death, change that jab from a fist to the chin to fingers to the eyes, and the inside leg kick to a groin kick. I get that he doesn't want people to think they can just do that and not train. But when your life is on the line you should try to exploit your opponent's weakest points as visciously as possible. I've heard this from people that have actually been in combat. Also, using open hand strikes as opposed to punches to decrease the chance of breaking your hand. He doesn't cover any of these slight modifications to sport fighting systems that make them potentially more effective in a non-sport setting. Lastly, there are some sports (Lethwei comes to mind) that have open hand strikes and include headbutts, which can also be quite effective. I think MMA training is great and I've done it and continue to sharpen my tools, but there's a lot more to being prepared for the street. But maybe that's in the half I can't be bothered to watch lol

The description of the video says April 14, 2013 instead of 2023.

Bruce Lee's most important concept was not to ever initiate a fight but always use it wisely in self-defense only. That came from a non-violent, soulful person of great wisdom and character. Most of the people admired him for superficial reasons but rarely anyone understood what he really was about. He's not a legend because he played characters in the movies or was in sports. He is a legend because he had a character that was unsettling to people without one.

There was recently a Ultimate Self Defense Championship, and the smaller full time MMA fighter won. It’s a really entertaining series, highly recommended.

Real and working self-defense is, and must be, brutal. If what you use in a self-defense situation lacks brutality, you might find that you get into a fight and get a beating.

Seeing how so many Americans acted about the Dalai Lama was one of the most embarrassing moments of being an American. The self-righteousness of so many people reached a level of that of many Christian speakers during debates

Dearest Sam, we need an updated PSA on AI. Maybe Max or Stuart or both. I fear Eliazer is hopelessly pessimistic at this point. Max is always wonderfully optimistic yet clearly understans the danger.

I have met Sam, albeit briefly, and respect his approach and reasoning skills, insight and interest in varied areas such as martial arts. However, I have taught martial arts for 25 years and trained with some of the best instructors in self defense around, such as Rick Tucci and Dan Inosanto for 30+ years. I have also studied grappling with the likes of Eric Paulson, also a decades long student of Dan Inosanto and champion grappler in shootwrestling etc. I have also read hundreds of books on martial arts including Matt Thornton's work. I have to heartily disagree with Thornton and Harris here insofar as the negative view given on JKD. JKD has tons of groundwork and that was so way back when Bruce Lee was alive and teaching it. Lee studied Judo at the University of Washington with gi and all in classes and furthermore his first student, Jesse Glover, was a high level Judo champion who won many tournaments. Lee learned and studied and shared with martial artists constantly. He also studied intensely for three years with the great Japanese American Olympic gold medalist for Judo, Hayward Nishioka. He studied for a couple years with the great Small Circle Jui Jitsu master, Wally Jay. He studied for a year with Judo champion and fellow actor ( and stuntman ) Gene LeBell. Lee was, as so many who knew him in his teen years and later in America when he was an adult have underlined, a very quick study with a talent for understanding physical techniques and transitions extremely fast. Therefore his few years with such high level grapplers would equate to perhaps five, six or seven years that the average person might spend with those instructors. Lee was a sponge and further had a keen analytical ability for dissecting movements and mechanics not to mention the effectiveness of techniques. Further, as his Japanese girlfriend at The University of Washington, Amy Sanbo, a long time serious student of ballet at the time noted, " Bruce was like me in that he loved physical movement and using the body to express it but he had an ability to see any complex physical movement, just once, and then duplicate it instantly with power and fluidity, speed and grace. I never met anyone in my life who had that ability to the level that Bruce did." With all that said, Lee understood grappling and studied it seriously not for a few months but for years. He analyzed it and practiced it with extremely high level Judo and Jiu Jitsu players. He incorporated it into his art. Dan Inosanto knows this and unfortunately it seems Matt and Sam do not. One can see Lee showing actor Bolo Yeung how to perform a proper arm bar for a scene in, "Enter the Dragon". Aside from dozens of other grappling techniques in his films, he uses a crucifix to submit Sammo Hung in the opening scene of the same film. ( It is not an arm bar as some have foolishly tried to say over the years. The tap Sammo does is because his neck was under great pressure, not because Lee was hurting his arm. Lee was simply holding the arm whilst wearing grappling type gloves and demanding the tap by shaking and pinning the wrist a bit. Lee, before the scene, even instructed Sammo to get up after tapping out and when walking away, to rub the back of his neck so the martial artists watching the film would know where the hold had effected him.) Lee at that point had been doing grappling for 15 years. He also studied, as a teenager in Hong Kong, locks and clinches and holds and throws using the Chinese method of Chin Na which flows through all 300+ Kung Fu styles in China. He knew the value of grappling and had a very deep knowledge of grappling arts. But, he also knew that using many takedowns and ground grappling techniques on a sidewalk or asphalt street was not always practical or safe, not to mention broken glass on a street, stones and etc. That's why when he used grappling in his films it was shown being used INDOORS or on grass, never in a street or on a cement sidewalk etc. For real world self defense, Lee preferred Judo sweeps and strong standing Judo throws over using Jiu Jitsu ground work. He further knew and stated that when on the ground you lose almost all mobility with your footwork then lost. If you are dealing with two or more thugs, this can be a death sentence. At the very least, on your feet you have a chance to deal with two attackers and survive. Another thing Bruce underlined was weaponry. You can successfully take an attacker, a home invader for example, down to your carpet in your home but as you are rapidly moving to get that arm bar, if the criminal has a blade tucked in the back belt of his pants and pulls it out and stabs you in the gut with it using his free hand, then game over. Similarly when you are on the ground you can only deal with one person at a time and if you are tussling on the ground with an attacker and mount the guy, it will not matter if his buddy or brother or crazy girlfriend runs up behind you and smashes the back of your head with a kick or worse, a baseball bat or lead pipe...or thrusts a knife into your back. Again, it is then game over and perhaps life over for you. Lee knew all this because he analyzed scenarios ad nauseum. For these reasons and others including Matt's unwarranted criticism and dismissal of Silat...which is a very useful, capable and varied group of fighting arts, I just strongly disagree with some of his viewpoints given here.

On the Dalai Lama issue, I think the issue is that America is a hyper-sexualized culture thanks to advertising and Hollywood. In America every utterance is immediately evaluated according to its sexual connotations. Only after that can we look at alternative interpretations. So when an 87 year-old man on the other side of the world says "suck my tongue" to a child your brain immediately takes the pedophilia angle instead of the playful old man angle. And because pedophilia is rightly construed as horrible you don't pay any attention to the second interpretation. It's interesting to note that in Tibet, whose culture is not as sexualised as ours, this is a non-issue.

Sam: "Why think about violence at all?" The answers given sounded like a religious person talking about their faith: * it is intrincic to our nature as human animals * noting good comes from repressing these instincts * we want a healty realtionship to it * not trying to demonize or repress it *a healtier way to live your life * you can fall in love with it * it changes you, in holy good ways * gives you confidence * a antitote to illusions * an understanding of things * it changes how you feel Seems like all emotions (mostly fear) and very little reason, to me.

The Dhali lama was just being silly IMO. I don't see it as a sexual indiscretion. However, he made misogynistic comments about women previously, so I disagree he has had an unmarred reputation.

Take A Moment It's easy to for me to understand more about much more than I thought possable. Stay Safe and Stay Free ❤

Let’s practice on the subway!

Getting choked out or near choked is not healthy. I sure hope you discuss this. " Pressure applied to the neck may damage important blood vessels or the windpipe (airway). This can damage the brain due to lack of oxygen. Brain damage or even death may happen within minutes but can sometimes occur weeks or months later." And I don't want to rely on my or my opponent's decision as to when pressure should be relieved from my throat.

maybe i'm missing something… but you can do sparring in martial arts like jkd (and go pretty strong with it) by using the right physical protections (never heard of hockey shin guards and working glasses?)

Sam, you don't think that the timing of this "viral tiktok" video has anything to do with the mongolian stuff?

I wasn't around for the early nineties in JKD, but all the most well-known JKD guys ended up doing intense BJJ and often getting black or at least purple belts. Inosanto, Paul Vunak, Burton Richardson, and my instructor Joe Maffei, who was one of the most suffocating grapplers I've ever rolled with. He spent time with both Rickson and Renzo. I know this happened somewhere around the early 90s when Thorton would have also started training. They were also all excellent boxers.

Well, there are a lot of problems with the claims in that podcast ! ;) "No gloves, no rounds, no weight classes..." Yes, also no knifes, sticks, guns, stones... ! ;) And many-many more ! This is just another BJJ-comercial break... ;)

Lets goooo. This is right up my ally

Is it me or are most podcasts now basically plugs for books. I'm starting to find the sound of "my new book" in an American accent really quite irritating

Sam , you should have a talk with a guy named Tony Blauer. There is a phenomena where highly trained people, such as martial artists, police officers and special operators, having their asses handed to them by nobody’s. Violence doesn’t care what martial art you study . Talk to Tony Blauer. He will help to fill the gap in your thinking

Or spinning back kicks do they don't exist Do you hear ❤

You have to invite John Danaher!!

Traditional martial arts are like traditional Chinese medicine; they've been around for so long people assume they work.

Sam, what age did you and your guest start your daughters in jujitsu? There is nowhere to leave comments/questions for your subscribers on your podcast so I’m posting my question here.

Love the thumbnail 👍🏻

Love the cover. Artsy. Private?!

Some people are so GRUMPPYYYYY❤😢❤😅❤❤

Good stuff!

I'm pretty old. I worked on the docks for years and interacted with many 'interesting' people. I have never needed to suffer being roughed up by more experienced, hmm what to call them, fighters, practitioners, thugs in training, whatever, in all those years. I have heard that, even for BJJ, beginners get beaten up a fair bit, because that is the mentality of people doing that sort of thing. But I suppose if you like fighting and grappling people go for it but don't give me the self-defense line.

What is the “fake, ridiculous, fantasy “ that Matt Thornton is living in?

The source kept Cuz I hadn’t ate Nor slept Can you Understand the force yet Yoda I of-course met No goodbyes my door step Leads you to the world that You could have it all at Ascend and you can fall back So what do you call that I prove to you it’s all facts Can’t even debate that Show me where the caves at Yogis that could take that Place where all the hates at Meditate with snakes Re-shape and recreate that Let me set it straight that Place I’ll give it straight back All my bones i take that Twist until I break that They put me in a straight Jack Just cuz I could say that So telepathically I sent this Sentence is my vengeance Union with my friend is Never gonna end this Now soon as I send this Message recommends bliss On earth as it’s already In the heavens Now Bare witness to Ascensions

Great episode, I dabbled in Systema for a while, the particular school I went to was zero bs or "no touch" moves. It taught a mix of Bjj, striking/blocking and some Krav Maga for some gun/knife defense scenarios. It was practical.

SAM...? I'm all for self defense training -that's awesome. I used to wrestle and took judo as a kid because they didn't offer karate... But I can't understood how you seem to advocate valuing life and condemn violence at times, yet you don't seem to care about deliberate brain damage done in "combat sports" where knocking your opponent out (I.e. inflicting concussions & brain damage) is a main goal that most fans seem to love. You surely know from your neuroscience how this head trauma is such a reliable recipe for early dementia, aneurysms, Parkinson's, required nursing home placement at an earlier age and erratic behavior, and a higher suicide rate? That's not even addressing the impact on our health care system, as most fighters probably do not reveal their behaviors when applying for Medicaid or commercial health insurance to avoid higher rates or denial of coverage based on risk. We had a 57-63ish former Golden glove boxer on our psych unit. Nicest guy during the day, but in the evenings his dementia/brain damage kicked in and he was unpredictable and dangerous, short-tempered, punching the payphone & walls because he couldn't figure out how to make a call. Scared the shit out of staff at times. I don't know if it was due to brain damage (also fairly common in WWF/AWA) but, Vern Gagne Got dementia and body slammed / killed a fellow resident at his nursing home. You seem deeply concerned about Charles Whitman and results of his brain damage, yet aren't you concerned about two young men (or women) with their whole lives ahead of them, beating the shit out of each other's brains? Would you want your teenage or young adult son or daughter doing that as a hobby while going to college? I agree that tapping out from chokeholds is SO much more safer, where you aren't trying to do any actual injury to your opponent at all, just achieving an advantageous position where you could terminate them. I saw a fight video where Tito Ortiz had knocked Evan Tanner unconscious and instead of showing any concern for his well-being, he smiled and pretended to shovel dirt on top of his grave while he remained unconscious. Total disregard of life / wellbeing. I hesitate to write this, as I suspect I will get some hateful comments from people, (esp those who use unrevealing/fake names). I do enjoy many of your episodes though, and would love to see you engage in more debates if you could find brave enough opponents. With Hitchens gone, you and Stephen Frye would be a formidable duo.

You can nice wash it all you like, but just look at the UFC and other competitive fighting comps. The real mentality on show.

Let's crowd fund Sam v Bret in the octagon

Thx Sam

I love discussing/arguing about bullshido martial arts, especially people who claim to be experts in Jeet Kune Do even-though the art/philosophy was incomplete when Bruce died. These JKD nuts today who've hijacked Bruce's philosophy are the same bs martial artists that Bruce complained about. They don't seem to understand that in a street fight nut punches and eye pokes can be executed with more power and effectiveness by a trained full contact sports fighter over a JKD nut who neglects any type of physical conditioning but believes he can defeat a MMA fighter in a street fight by relying on illegal moves banned within the sports fighting rule-set. . If they think the rule-set in MMA isn't realistic for the streets why don't they enter Valr Tudo tournaments to prove their style works?? They don't have any excuses.

You know the ones you won't acknowledge

Isn't it time to simply remove all branding names from the discussion and call it scientific self defense. After all, we don't have "Brazilian" Basketball or football, etc., , now do we? It's just self-defense in all ranges, period! That was truly Bruce Lee's dream for the martial arts world.

"Straight Blast" was Bruce Lee's go to wing chun technique.

Humankind has been given a natural inbuilt propensity for self-will and a controlling desire for self-gratification and self-defense. This is not "sin" - but part of the natural creative processes. Therefore, there is no "punishment" from on high! Humankind, through the willful and harmful exercise of the Ego (the guardian of individuality), draw to themselves their own punishment. For this reason, just as scientific school text-books become redundant as the human mind discovers and absorbs more advanced scientific knowledge, so should the present form of "Christianity," built upon spurious doctrines centred around the crucifixion of Jesus, be allowed to disappear. The present global crisis, introducing a new break down of International Law and laying the foundation for future global terrorism, clearly indicates that no religion in the world possesses the requisite knowledge and effective leadership to initiate changes in human mental patterns - which will lead directly to peace and prosperity.

That is unsettling, I feel like he was trying to make a joke...wow you said it could be a joke at the same time I typed it. My second thought is maybe his mental state is deteriating due to his age. Very strange at the least, I would like to see some kind of recourse on his part, maybe a public statement?

Cant get the mental image of Dalai 'suck my tongue' Lama out of my mind..

I've filmed it

His “street vs sport fallacy” is a mistake. Yes there is overlap but there are many significant differences as well which he disregards. One huge difference: WEAPONS.

Excelent Sam Harris

Bruce lee died at the age of 32, surprised Mr Thornton didn't know that

For me I think this live stream is a little off. Yes there is alot of rubbish out there but alot of what I heard on this show was just to degrade what Bruce Lee what trying to do. Bruce Lee was only 1 extension to Chinese Martial arts and these guys are so naive to the history of China. What brought me to this page was a mma teacher that has a carrot up his but and I realised that he was just repeating the garbage that is on this broadcast. Thats naïve. We train martial arts to be nice people and alot of martial artists become arragont as hell. Especially when they have trophies in a regulated fight. A little like Gustan in Beauty and the beast 😅

👊😎

Would not nor never make one single philosopher

Is this William Montgomery?

Makhachev VS. Sam Harris I bet he finally Submits to Islam Watching God Debate himself Like it’s a sitcom When God doesn’t Even believe In himself Definition Of ironic These bars will take A hundred years to understand Definition Of iconic No mic I’m just Psychotic With my comments Evolutions a nice concept So when I looked beyond death I took the long breath With Three long steps I’ was gone yes TA NA MA Make sure that I haven’t Even Been born yet

Love these talks but, $180/yr. is too steep for me.

With my own brain 🧠

Yogananda already proved the existence of God , and his church of all religions removed all the “bad bits “ catch up humans …

Whenever I go to Raising Cane’s I order the spicy chicken fingers with crinkle cut fries and oh yesssss a large Diet Dr. Pepper!!!

The Dali Lama is not having brain damage nor doing anything sensual; this is a lesson and it is for those who the Buddha came to this earth for, he knew before hand what would happen and being bewildering is very astute to notice because this is the whole purpose.

The best defense is a joke so funny that will kill your adversary

It's took a number of apples how about them apples

Apologism of a populist buddhist theocrat by a self-proclaimed rationalist atheist is something which is very difficult to understand.

Customs are different in foreign countries.

I really like this guy's approach. The fake martial arts and Bruce Lee fandoms are finally dying off and I'm here for it. This egghead comment section is not passing the vibe or emotional intelligence test though

yep, fsyherless young men. We have a permanently adolescemt generation. My taxes for handouts to single mothers and my taxes to imprison the bums who fathered them. Quick show of hands ... How many think this will suddenly get better?

You me i will never

I can't say who.......OK It's Jordan and the cast of the entire dark web

I'm sure MMA training can build character, but one would never know it from the chatter of UFC fighters in the build up to fights. The chatter is about as inane, egotistical and dumb as chatter could possibly be.

One of the biggest issues with Krav Maga is that not only does it "borrow" from other systems, it borrows incomplete concepts from those systems and then perpetuates a "winning" mentality. The advantage Jujitsu has is that it teaches you what it's like to lose, and that is incredibly invaluable data.

LOL. I remember when I was in school in 8th grade, a classmate wanted to play rough with me and went for a headlock and I instinctively wanted to get out of it immediately so as he was holding my head, I moved my arm elbow to reach behind me and the next thing I saw was him holding his nose and bleeding. I didn't mean to hit him that hard and yet it was extremely effective to get free without me even knowing or intending it.

jiu jitsu is definitely useful in a fight, yet training.. men lying on top of you, groping and touching you, not a fan of that part.

With AI, do we really need neuroscience?

If it only takes one moment to change everyone's view on a person when they haven't actually harmed anyone then that tells me how much drenched in lies and deception and social manipulation the whole world is and does not tell me anything about the person offending the masses. I watched that Dalai Lama clip and what I saw there was a ritual no diferent than many other rituals done in religious places. I have been personally part of one when I was a child myself when I went for confession and we who had to confess our sins had to go under the priest robe and speak so that only the priest could hear. That was and still is seen as completely normal in the confession ritual and there was nothing sexual in it as far as I experienced.

A lot of MMA techniques I see used in cage fighting appear quite vulnerable to headbutts.

Re: Dalai Lama, did you take no time to do a little google searching for any relevant cultural information? The translation is "eat my tongue" and is a common, more or less traditional, joke between elderly and children. Think of i t like "pull my finger"... although it's not a fart joke, and the tongue is not actually meant to be eaten (or sucked). I would think if you were going to comment on it, you might have taken five minutes to google search.

She lies 😂

Because you can't do stand-up

His boring

Sam Harris logic- If everything was different right, I would not be wrong right, and since eveything could be different right, I am correct right. Somone suffering from NPD is incapable of admitting when they are wrong.

Clickbait thumbnail?

Does anyone remember the post George floyd podcast with the jujitsu guy. Lol, what a joke, if we could just take a more rational, caring approach to enforcing the law, maybe someone like George floyd would still be alive. Hahaha. Sam harris is the product of the persistence of human hubris. Let's just think this through, guys.

During my first bjj class i was about to slam the coach but he said it's prohibited lmao.

Izzy Adesanya...OnePunchManing his way into Sam's subconscious😅 🙏🏽👊🏾☯️🤚🏽🙏🏽

I have studied under many llamas

He got the early UFC rules incorrect. Feel free to ask Joe San about the groin strikes. If I remember correctly, there were 3 rules. No biting, no eye gouging, no small joint manipulation.

There is ample evidence from different Tibetan communities now speaking up that the idea is I have given you everything that you wanted and so the only thing left is to take my tongue so suck my tongue. That is the traditional Tibetan grandfatherly thing to say without any expectation that it will be done. It's a metaphor and that's all it was and it was meant to be not suck my tongue but eat my tongue meaning take the last thing I have.

Just remembered: Once upon time, working at a mine in Northern Manitoba, I ran into some drinking bullies. I was injured and incapable to use my left arm. Since my right arm was working OK, and I had a piece of very heavy electrical wiring, I used that on the bullies. Later I contacted the company police about what had happened and was told: If it ever happens again, use a baseball bat! The bullies were fired and had no choice but to return to Winnipeg. At the time I was also taking Jiu-jitsu and the Royal Canadian Police registered students and teacher as being dangerous with our bare hands. Before all that, I was in Vancouver, taking Judo from a great teacher. One evening, a couple of our Shodans went downtown. Well, the next evening they again turned up at the dojo, showing all the signs of a beating. They had run into some nasty street fighters and got a beating. So sport is not useful for real self-defense.

There is a post going around that completely describes the incident with the Dalai Lama. I encourage everyone to search it out. Once you read the meaning of his gesture, it completely explains his seemingly bizarre behavior.