Sephiroth and The Edge of Creation Mystery | FFVII Theory 

I like this theory. Would also explain why Square made a playable Sephiroth; he might help Cloud and Zack fight his hatred. Also, it just is the nost good ending, in my opinion. Aerith and Tifa do so much work to save Cloud in order to save the planet, but all they really need to do is save Sephiroth. And doesn't he deserve it more, given all we've now learned of his past?

Ok...we thought we had Seohiroth playing 4D chess against Aerith....but now we have Sephiroth playing 4D chess agains Sephiroth

Would that mean that cloud has to die to truly defeat him? As long as he exist, so would sephiroth. Which explains why he said I will not end. Nor will I allow you to.

Jenoviroth and Human/Hero Sephiroth. I came to this conclusion almost immediately after Remake without the context of Rebirth or Ever Crisis. Just like you shared, lifestream black pretty much spells it out. We don't consider the messed up things Cloud does under the influence of Jenova to be Cloud's actions. Why would we do the same to Sephiroth? Remember that even Aerith resisted being completely diffused into the Lifestream so that she could still interact with the living world. Tale of two pasts has Ifalna remaining until she was confident that Aerith no longer needed her. If this is Human/hero Sephiroth then it fits into the other examples that he is waiting to make a difference from within the lifestream.

This is spot on.... The ultimania guidebook for remake hinted that there's another sephiroth..... The ultimania guidebook for remake called this eoc sephiroth as unknown sephiroth since they elaborate that this eoc sephiroth has an unknown origin.... Your theory might be right that this eoc sephiroth who is not bound to cloud might be the sephiroth in the lifestream...

That makes sense, we have a Sephiroth who wanted to avoid dying at all costs and essentially fused with Jenova in an attempt to become immortal and a Sephiroth that accepted his own death and is perhaps being reconstructed in the lifestream. The collective pronouns for Jenovaroth suggests that the answer for whether Sephiroth or Jenova is in control is “both”, he’s a fused creature that acts according to both Jenova and Sephiroth’s motivations. My theory for now is this game is actually a near death experience that’s happening within Cloud’s mind. That Sephiroth is trying to save Cloud because if Cloud dies Sephiroth dies while Aerith is trying to save Cloud from Sephiroth.

An interesting thing to mention, is that Sephiroth in remake and the Sephiroth that appears more in rebirth are not the same person exactly. Unless there's a feather from the wing, the Sephiroth seen for most of remake is Jenovaroth, or Jenova in Sephiroth's form. It isn't clear if Sephiroth is directly controlling Jenova, in fact it is more ambiguous than ever. Notably, Jenovaroth lacks remake Sephiroth's charisma, sadism, delight, etc. Jenovaroth is very direct, methodical, almost robotic, akin to when Jenova took over Sephiroth in the Nibelheim incident, "like a man possessed."

I think the North Crater in part 3 is going to be empty.

Awesome theory crafting. Thank you.

Feel it’s very unlikely Sephiroth will be the final boss in part 3. He already was in part 1 and 2. And why turn the whole story inside out like this just to have it cross the same finish line. I have always thought Jenova was manipulating Seph and not the other way around but this was always disputed by those close to the writing. But even in OG, Seph is doing his own thing until he encounters Jenova in Nibelheim, and from that point goes on a different trajectory that mirrors what Jenova previously was doing before its defeat. I think we are in fact heading towards Seph being redeemed, or a redeemed one emerging. After all he is actually a heroic figure who was driven mad by his creation, abusive upbringing and manipulation by an alien life form. He is a victim, really.

I really want to be wrong here, but I believe I am not. We have to stop thinking, that the Edge of Creation is in the future or the Sephiroth here is like an Omni-one and knows the future. I think it is happening in parallel to the FF7 Story. The Sephiroth here still has his memories, because "Lifestream black" hasn't happened yet, Lifestream Black starts after the End of the OG. He has not yet surrendered them yet to the planet. And he knows things because he has been traveling the Lifestream for 5 years now and learned a lot, like Aerith. Not because all of this happened before. Maybe this scene is only explaining, why Sephiroth behaved differently with Cloud in the scene at the end of Remake. He tried it with compassion, as he remembered this can brake the cycle of hate. But it's a dead end with Cloud, showing compassion / being nice won't work. This is also the reason why we don't see this EoC Sephiroth in Rebirth anymore, because there are no different versions of him (although I think he is the one explaning the worlds in the "true nature of reality" scene). He is always the same, just tried a different strategy. And he simply wants Cloud to survive so he can always return through Cloud (as we know from on the way to a smile and AC). And he needs him for the reunion, and to deliver the Black Materia. So I think his interest in Cloud will immediately end once he gets the Black Materia and summon Meteor in Part 3. I think the Sephiroth at the EoC, is the core of his spirit, the one that controls al the others. That's why only he uses "Ore" and all the others are using "Watashi". (again, I really want to be wrong here, but we should start lowering our expectations)

My biggest question is why the Sephiroth we fight with Zack at the edge of creation is different from the one Cloud fights with Aerith that takes place on a white astral icy looking plane and classified differently as Sephiroth (Forgotten Capital). Genuinely curious on the lore and the significance of adding the location name in closed brackets next to his name, why that one has more HP and generally stronger with more abilities (Whisper Cannon, Whisper Cannon, Wicked Augment) that the edge of creation doesn’t have, and the absence of 2 abilities called The End is Nigh and Tempus Finis being listed on Enemy Intel even after assessed. Then there’s Virtual Sephiroth inside Chadley’s VR with his 2 infamous move called Shadowy Chains. And why his wing is 404 to be found. Those 3 Sephiroths share the abilities our Playable Sephiroth is able to execute during Nibelheim flashback with one exception called Skewer which honestly tobme looks like if Pierce had its branching finisher move - like Zanshin to Zanshin Rising or Octoslash to Octoslash Prime - but on crack since he vanishes for a split second and pops up next to our ass to stab us which looks exactly like how he does it to Cloud in Advent Children. WHAT ARE YOU NOT TELLING US, SQUARE???

I'm new and only started with Remake, but I know all of the story and lore, but I don't recall Sephiroth using We pronouns when talking to Cloud for example, when not a memory. I know that he spoke differently in Japanese, though I don't recall the exact words or what they meant. Are you referring to that?

So i would say its jenova sephiroth and spirit energy sephiroth the one in clouds concious. Similar to zack in clouds concious. If you see at the end of rebirth its as of zack and aerith where summoned by cloud they both came through spirit energy signified by the rainbow colour clouding. Spirit summons such as ifrit or shiva they where entitys worshiped and loved by people. Zack sephiroth and aerith are all loved by cloud he carries their memories with him and it is through memories that spirits and entitys are summoned through the will of the individual. So just as the GI used black materia to bring meteor into existence using the memories and emotions of despaire, similar cloud using his memories of zack aerith and even sephiroth is summoning them into existance into the world. But summons such as ifrit and shiva dont stay in the real world for long they go back to the spirit energy the one which the individual person is created from, and which the individual taps into to summon the entity into the real world. Another theory i have are the materia that summon, they are small worlds from which entitys such as ifrit are summoned. We know there are worlds within the life stream and we know materia comes from life stream. Materia is created by being summoned through the individual existing persons will to manifest it into existance. Just as the cetra did with white materia it is a world of peace and prosperity made of memories and dreams from the life stream. A small world which summons holy elemental. Similar the GI bent the will of the black life stream by summoning meteor through there memories of their once dead planet and all the negative emotions and memories connected to it. They summoned meteor from the small world of the black materior. Materior come in diffrent shape and sizes as are planets. The planet of the GI wasnt to big it was small in comparison to the plant it hit or collided with. Ok now i stop. There are things that trigger my brain into theory craft mode and i have to write it out or i forget what i was thinking.

What you said had me thinking. What if the 'we' sephiroth is actually jenova whereas the 'i' Sephiroth is the real sephiroth. You mentioned Cloud being the core right? So Cloud beat him twice, once in the real world and once in Clouds conciouness. That means due to Clouds internal self him having both Sephiroth DNA and jenova DNA means he is connected to both. The sephiroth we see with a wing is jenova sephiroth, jenova has no real physical form just as jenova used the GI as the first host its using sephiroth as yhe second host. Whereas the sephiroth within clouds conciousness his spirit energy mixed with clouds. Its more how summons are used with materia, through the will of the user, are they summoned using spirit energy. Similarly sephiroth must be being summoned by cloud through spirit energy. Zack is in a similar situation except there is no jenova zack. The fact cloud manifests zack through his actions his fighting style and such, it shows he is intune with zacks spirit. Whilst being his own person at the same time. So he taps into the spirit energy and becomes what he is. The edge of creation is spirit energy. Its what its created from. And from spirit energy is new creation or old reincarnated or bought about. Sephiroth the real one at the edge of creation the one within cloud, is trying to reincarnate through him. Even jenova is created from spirit energy but that doesnt mean it will become apart of the life stream white. If life stream white is built on memories dreams and hope than life stream black is built on dispaire anger hate. They are both created from emotion within the human body through the will of the human. It is summoned by the humans and used by them made to bend to their will. The GI bent negative emotions to their will and created meteor. Tapping into the black life stream spirit energy. Whereas the white materia is connected to the white life stream and is summoned by the will of humans or at the time cetra who are spirtually attuned to spirit energy and have used it to manifest this such as fire water and ice. Im gonna stop here this theory is become too long and i wont be able to finish my theory in one message.

Ok so this will be the last message. So cloud had an empty materia and he will use it to create a world in which there is no jenova and no despair. A world a promised land in which he will summon using the memories and hope and dreams of all that he cherishes. We kniw the cetra have access to the promised land. The promised land being the worlds within the life stream. The GI there promised land being meteor. If meteor destroys the planet as it is now cloud might have to summon the promised land or the planet as it is again using all those memories and life stream reincarnating the planet. Ok thats the most far fetched theory i have had out of all my theorys. God cloud theory? I dont know i have no name for it. Ok im done, no more.

I really think Cloud is dying. That makes the only good ending. In the books Cloud doesnt differ carrot from gysahl green and is half miserable, half ok. He isnt used to normal life. Him dying to erase Sephiroths memory and reuniting with Aerith and Zack in peace. That seems the only good way to end him.