wow, very good lesson, had put a "Price" tail piece on my banjo. In place of the original Presto, put the Presto back on and it was so much better, thanks for the video.
Working on my R.K. R-35 strings and cleaning, wood oiling and head tension and my Presto lose after all my strings and bridge removed and it's flopping around, so time to revisit this 'Best' vid from 15' til now 22', really all I need to know and having a loose bolt will now put some raise pressure to determine and potential slack in my setup and re-adjust my bolt/nut snug but not screwed down for no reason. I first used this instruction for my Jameson banjo upgrading all of the hardware, tuners etc. before investing meager income for a closer to pro instrument. Thanks for this lesson I have returned to once again gaining concentrated insight. Found that there is no stop point to tension release and the nut backed off. Nut pretty near ready to come off the end.
Good video John! Back when I played banjo Presto was my favorite, my only complaint was the lid rattled on some of them but that was nothing a piece of felt stuck under the lid and out of sight didn't solve. It's amazing how some people try to tighten them down sooo tight. Properly installed I don't think they would ever present any problems.
Trailryder42 Sorry I accidentally erased your last question when tying to reply to it. Yes, the reason for the excessive overtones is about too much downforce, not so much the contact of the tailpiece with the tension hoop. Th Presto has a really ideal size/weight ration and is part of the whole prewar flathead masterton equation, imo.
Thanks John, that's a helpful video. What is your personal preference for how high above the tension hoop the tailpiece should sit and what effect does raising or lowering the tailpiece have on the sound of the instrument?
I've always replaced my Presto tailpieces with Kershner style. I like cast, heavier tailpieces. But I put a Presto on a new banjo I just bought and actually like it once it was set right.
@@JohnBoulding John, what is your personal preference? I like Prestos and cast (like Stelling), but I often wonder whether heavier cast tailpieces suck in the sound, or improve a banjo sustain or what?
Yeah,,,Great hints&. Tips...just bought me a Barnes & Mullins And still experimenting on set up,,,,is it best for me to take it to a true professional to get my banjo set up 100%..?
Adrian, congrats on getting that high quality banjo! I don't think it's a "requirement" to have someone like me to set up your banjo. The anology would be cars, where some folks are very happy with their cars stock performance, verses taking the car to a tuning shop to squeeze out more power /performance. Most of it is based on your experience level with set up and what you want out of the banjo. If you are good at set up and are satisfied with it, then just play it. But if you feel like you want to get more out of it and aren't sure how to achieve it, letting a pro set up person do it can coax the maximum out of it.
Raising the tailpiece generally gives a more open, 'luscious', with fatter bass tones. As you crank the tailpiece down the bass response with change to more focused and the treble 'bite' increases. There's always a happy medium with a Presto. Of course players will find a spot they like and it may be way beyond what i consider the 'safe' range of settings. But going too far either way will either compromise the structural integrity of the tailpiece, the sound or both.
+John Boulding Thanks for the info John. I took the screw out of the base of the tailpiece (which was screwed all the way in and difficult to remove) and let the tailpiece 'float'. Stupidly I took the opportunity of also tightening the head on the RK whilst I had the resonator off and you can't gauge the effect of making one alteration when you've actually done two! Nevertheless, I let the tailpiece sit on the hoop and I'm very pleased with the result. Definitely more 'punch' when I'm picking the lower D & G (4&3). Maybe I'll try raising it up a bit at a time but I like the sound I've got now. Thanks for setting out the details John.
John i have a gibson earl scruggs mastertone and it seems to have a sharp sound rather than a duller sound like another gibson i have. If i wanted it to have a lower pitch sound would i have to release the tension on the head.thank you. regards Joe
Joe, your overall tone can be changed with more than one adjustment. Head tension is one of those factors, but so is tailpiece setting/type, string gauge, bridge type, and overall set up of all these things. You can try loosening the head some and that might work but you also might lose things, response wise doing that too. Great it it a try and see
Old post but I come back to it every once in a while. John, they make an adjustable Presto, which would you prefer? Also, Kershner or Presto? Good Info.
Howdy John i am having some problems with my Banjo. After being in the case for a year or so i get it back out and the strings from the 22th fret on is at 1/4 inch. After trying to tinker around with it my self i gave up before breaking something. I found someone to help with the set up. Setting the truss rod relief adjusting the coordinating rod and adjusting the presto tailpiece the string heights was still high. He then put a smaller bridge on it which made the string action perfect. Now on to my new problem it has such overtones or sustain not sure what to call it but it doesn't sound like my banjo did.So whats next ? I would like to have the sound i was used too but with lower string action. Not sure shimming the neck a bit will help but i did order a new head and i am not sure that is the right direction either. Sorry about the long post but i figured you would need some info to get me back on the path to sanity.
Years ago I played the 5 string banjo. I don't know why but I gave it up. Now, I have another banjo. Its a Fender FB-59. I know its not a Gibson or a Huber but its alright to practice on. My Presto Bridge is laying flat on the head. The banjo has 2 rods on the inside. How do I raise the tailpiece and adjust the rods on the inside?
I have a Cox style tailpiece (from Clareen) and that thing is heavy duty! Like the Presto and any other tailpiece, you can adjust the hanger bolt, but like the Kershner, you can also adjust the down pressure. My question is, how does the hanger bolt tension or height effect tone? Although I'm a Ralph Stanley fan, I still don't like my tailpiece crunk way down next to the head.
In general terms, cranking the tailpiece down tends to push the tone towards treble/mids and can cause overtones. Letting it float more opens up the tone making for a richess and more bass
There's so many great bridges being made today. Sosobee, katseye, Sunday smith second gen, Wyatt, Dotson, Dave Wadsworth, Huber,scorpion, Purcell, to make the top that come to mind
Hi. Good video, thanks. My presto broke (on my 1988 Earl Scruggs) after 29 years (can I get a refund!!!???). I put heavy strings on to get a mellower tone and the Presto didn't like it. Anyway, got a replacement and I'll install as per your instruction. Regards from the UK.
i used to break 3 recents Presto without never any mistakes , and one old ' one mounted on an old 1930 ' tenor Vega ; but i 've never broke an English " Presto " , these ones are made from very strong steel ,un fortunatly there are nos adjustable
John, what do you do about a cover flap that flops open. And won’t stay closed? Replace? i ended up buying a new one from StewMAC .. So I guess i have a backup.
Take a par of small needle nose pliers and 'gently' bend the side tabs inward. Do a little bit bit at a time. You can get the cover to tighten up in its travel and not be loose.
Your overall action will depend on the banjo, and your playing style and attack. The more energy you put into the strings, the more room they need to vibrate/oscillate. In other words, the harder you pick, the higher they need to be in order to not buzz against the frets.
Thanks for the video. I agree with some of your suggestions however removing the adjustment screw is not a good thing especially if you desire brighter crisper tones from your banjo. Without that adjustment screw your banjo especially the 3rd amd 4th strings become floppy and lose note definition. I know removing the screw is popular mostly because guys dont know how to adjust it. And thats where your video comes. I find that if I get the presto 3/16" off the head I get a better overall tone. This all works in cooperation with the head tension and bridge mass. Its not easy dialing in what you want to hear and takes considerable experimetation. Keep pickin
If you want to keep the screw that's cool. It's an inferior adjustment, compared to say a clamshell, which is really made TO adjust. The screw is pretty worthless overall and Presto added it mainly to give it the appearance of adjustability. It mainly mars the plating on your tonering, puts extra stress right where prestos are the weakest and imparts wolf tones. These reasons are why experienced players let it float and toss the screw. But as I said, to each his/her own and if it works for you, keep using it.
@@JohnBoulding John I have used the Prucha 2 hump TP and it is a more sturdy and more solid but it doesn't sound like a Presto. If you can get a bluegrass tone from not using the set screw you're ahead of me. I have had no problems with using the set screw to adjust the TP and get that bright focused tone. Take care.
I'm a bluegrass mandolin player looking at buying a banjo. i like the scruggs sound. would you recommend a recording king rk75 or mahogany deering sierra? thanks
Thanks for this John. I have an ESS 1994 which sounds pretty sweet. I noticed the end of the fretboard touches the tension hoop. Some say I should have a small gap between the two. In your opinion does there need to be a gap or is it best to leave it how it came out of the Gibson factory? If you get this thanks in advance.
Thr gap no gap debate rages on lol. As long as the end of the fingerboard isn't hitting first, moving the neck away from the tonering area, or making it so you can't adjust the head (friction), then just leave it as is. I've heard fantastic banjos with no gap and fantastic banjos with gaps. If it sounds great, it's nothing to worry bout.
Thanks John yeah it’s only just very slight, no problem tensioning the head and the neck sits on the rim fine. I think I’ll just leave it as you say it sounds good how it is.
@@ProfileP246 cool, the gap no gap debate rages on but I can tell you after working on literally over 10k banjos, it doesn't matter as long as the other contact points are great.
Yes, take a pair of needle nose pliars and bend the inside flutes of the cover plate outwards slightly. You do this gently and check tje fit as you go. If you do too much bending the cover will pop off and you'll need to install it
John , I agree with you that the screw should be removed, its never useful and in the patent itself, it says "is designed to rest against the rim of the banjo and prevent the plate from being raised by the pull of the strings". Ratty, it is not the same as a down force screw ans on Waverly, Kershner, etc..., but a few people do try and use it as one... Now John, I would ask you if you consider the loss of string angle over the bridge occurring with this rise will due to less down force, lose some note decay or not? I specialize in tenor banjo and I have to change neck angle or bridge up a bit if floating the Presto means that loss of downforce to maintain a similar tone . Thanks for sharing. V
Vincent, a,lowing the tailpiece to float usually opens up the tonal range of the banjo a bit, and he,ps remove shrill overtones, generally speaking. But there's always a "sweet spot" which changes for each banjo, the bridge, head tension, string gauge,etc, so it's a moving target.
I just purchased my first Banjo and it has a tail piece like the one you are talking about in this video. How is the tail piece supposed to be set initially? Thanks for sharing these videos.
If your presto has been threaded for an adjustment screw, then it isn't a 'floating tailpiece'. That screw is designed to create down pressure on the strings when tightened to the head flange.
ratty , that screw does very little to adjust tension. The tailpieces that truly adjust downforce via a rear bolt/screw are the clamshell, ottinger,kershner,Ode,Stelling,etc. later the Japanese redesigned the Presto style with a large knurled rear adjustment that pushes against a reinforced brass panel. Back in the late 20s this tailpiece had this little screw that most likely was used to help market it as "adjustable". The only real adjustment with this is the up and down movement via the hangar bolt. This is a very limited definition of "adjustable" when compared to those ones we know that are, in the real sense. "Floating" is a play on words obviously since no tailpiece could levitate and stay in place with strong pressure pulling on it. Most folks who deal with BG banjos know that floating here means not adjustable left or right, front ledge down/up like the other ones I mentioned. Most players who use the standard Presto ditch the screw because A) it doesn't adjust worth a hoot and B) generally puts excess pressure where the tailpiece is weakest, hastening its failure later on.
John Boulding hmm. Well I'm no expert, but I leave the hanger bolt light finger tight then run the adjustment screw in til the tp is pressing down less than parallel to the head or where I like the sound. To me, a truly floating tp would have no downward adjustment...but then, like I said, I'm no expert. Thanks for your detailed reply.
ratty fingers Once it's set up correctly, the Presto can have plenty of downforce without the screw. The video shows it and its born out on thousands of banjos. If you like having the screw in yours that cool. But over time it it weakens the 90 degrees bend and really isn't needed. The amount of downforce can have a big impact on tone too. Many players who like the open flathead sound prefer to have it floating up above wher that is possible once the screw in the plate is engaged.
I've come across a lot conflicting opinions on whether the presto or presto-style tailpiece should be in contact with the tension hoop rim or floating slightly above it. My RK35's tailpiece is in contact, but after reading differing views on tailpiece setup I'm not sure now I got the right one my instrument. I just assume the manufacturer knows best. Should I leave it alone?
You should definitely try different floating positions to find the sweet spot for your banjo and set up. The problem with resting it on the tension hoop is A) overtones and B) too much strain on the bend area of the presto.
@@JohnBoulding I believe you about finding the sweet spot. Will you clarify what that sweet spot is & what do I listen for to know that I’ve found it? I hear terms like your banjo will open up but I don’t know what that means. Thanks for any wisdom you can offer.
@@banjomark9900 the sweet spot tone wise is hard to describe with words. Just try different placements and you will definitely hear the banjo enter the "zone" for the to e you like. Higher up equals richer generally speaking and lower down equals treble and bite. Did something not too high up or too far down.
I used to play the 5 string banjo many years ago but gave it up. Now, I am taking it up again. I have a Fender FB-59 Banjo with 2 co-ordinator rods. It does have a Presto Tailpiece. The strings are laying on top of the head. I know the Co-ordinator rods need adjusting but I don't know how to do it. I work on my guitars so I am not musically ignorant. Could you please tell me what I need to do to be able to play my banjo?
Daryl I have a video also about co rods and how they are adjusted. Be careful with making major action changes as it can damage your rim or lag bolts in the neck. It's better to err on the "less" side of things in terms of rod tension. If the action is really low you should look at shimming the lower heel to raise it. Neck angle is a major deterring factor in overall action.
Glen, no I don't have one in stock. Those tailpieces are just Prucha Prestos, gold plated with that style "6" double X pattern engraved into it. The JD Crowe model banjo pot assembly was a Granda hybrid style banjos for the most part. If you go to Prucha Banjos website and contact them, you can order a custom engraved gold Presto with the X pattern on it.
You obviously know what you’re doing but I have knocked covers off even with your advice to gently use the “Rump” of your hand and not even contacting the cover. Thus I do not do it any more. I use a controlled steady pressure to direct the little guy to mate with the tension hoop. Knock a cover off on a job and the guy will not be happy and possibly demand a replacement at 65US from MAC if it has Presto written on it. These tail pieces do change shape themselves quite often and as the cover hinge is just two small pressed dimples on the cover that mates with holes on the super structure. So as the main body of the pieces distorts with the hoop the covers become loose and fragile and even fall off themselves. Even light taps not directed at the covers themselves can send covers flying. I advise Using controlled force not kinetic whacks if you wish to keep the cover ( also known as buzz traps lol) You know your stuff well and I do not mean to rain on your truth. I have just lived this a few times and some folks don’t like the cover coming off. You have to tiptoe around them if this is the case. People wish to emulate Earl but Earl himself was not beyond experimenting and there are infinitely better quality tail pieces. In fact the industry is just screaming for decent tensile strength metals and not old pot metal tinkers mix % all the time.
The covers aren't hard to put back on once you've done it a few times. I just do this to speed up the settling in process. That's cool to not do this as nothing I'm doing is any kind of gospel obviously. This is just general advice and my experience with ten thousand banjos. As they say YMMV haha.as long as your way of doing things works and gets you results, go for it
Hi John. I would like to ask if you could help me with my Banjo with some info on it and it looks like you are the expert in this aspect. It is a Epiphone Recording Artist, it has lights built in made for Charlie Jeib (?).
Set up is variable. You can alter the parameters of your set up to get different types of tone and response. Dialing in your banjo involves getting the tailpiece in the sweet spot without over stressing it.
I get these unwanted noises( a softly ringing or buzzing e flat overtone over the a note ) if the Presto tailpiece is not anchored against the tension hoop. A real bugger with tuning it up and recording. According the tailpiece adjustment tutorial by the Deering banjo company, the tailpiece should be anchored to the tensionhoop. My banjo had many setups by several guys, but I never found the sound and playability again as when it was new, while it returned in the most awkward and contradicting set-ups ( over-tightened heads, with no resonance at all, concurve necks).. Seems every “expert”has a different opinion and approach. Nowadays I can’t enjoy playing it anymore, since I always end up tinkering on it , hearing/feeling huge differences with minimal wrench pushes (head tension, truss rod relief, tailpiece adjustment) desperately seeking for sweet spots. Wish that the increments of adjustments were a bit more generic, through all the controverse .. Some people would love the versatility of timbre that adjustment can do, but I get rather indecisive. Everyone knows better, but meanwhile I can’t have proper sound and playability..
Deering uses those version of a presto design, which is heavier built and is designed by them to rest on top of the tension hoop. A standard presto typically won't like the stresses involved in being pulled down that far. But you can try anything you like. The resonance issues can sometimes be the cover plate vibrating and or the string sections between the bridge and tailpiece, which can be allieviated by we weaving some felt between them or with small rubber o rings. None of this is science and tone is subjective. No where in my video do I, or would I claim there is one way to set up the presto. I'm trying to stop folks from doing things that break them and trying to help them get the best set up with one, taking into consideration the wide range of height adjustments that are possible. In the end of you don't like the presto, just get a different style tailpiece and the problem is solved. From your reply it would appear using this tailpiece is making you despise playing. In that case, take the presto off, sell it or toss it in the trash and get a different style TP. It's simply not worth the aggravation and definitely not worth losing your enjoyment from playing to use it.
You also are suffering from ETS, a common malady for this instument. It stands for compulsive tinkering syndrome. You can completely fall victim to it. At some point you just have to leave the banjo alone and just play it.
Not one word mentioned on how high the tailpiece should be above the head and the difference it makes in the tone of the banjo. I did not find this video very helpful
