Dude thank you so much!! It is genuinely so relieving to hear someone not dismissing Shadows character in his game as " edgy and ruining it" or "he just repeats his arc from SA2 but worse". It's so fucking ANNOYING when people use that line in Sonic Heroes "you'll regret this Doctor, whether if I'm real or not I'm still the ultimate life form Shadow the Hedgehog" as an excuse to dismiss him questioning his past in his game. Like......WHAT? That's not exactly meaning he's moved on, hell he most likely meant that "whether if I'm the real Shadow or not I still have the same power and I'm about to kick your ass!" And as for his arc in SA2. Not that i think it was badly written or anything but I noticed one of the main problems is that Shadow really had no agency in that game and just did whatever Maria wanted. He says it himself as he falls to Earth. "Maria, this is what YOU wanted right? This is my promise I made to YOU!" Also his fight with the Biolizard was more of a conflict between Maria and Gerald, (as they were both extensions of their influencers will, Maria gave Shadow her dying wish which he was super loyal to, while Gerald programmed the Biolizard to help destroy Earth) And I agree with you, Shadow becoming his own person and forming his own agency in his game was a real big part of his arc. Especially in the final fight against Devil Doom. We have Super Shadow, who has chosen to save humanity by his own will, standing as a beacon of hope. Then contrast to him, Devil Doom, a vile, ugly, monstrous juggernaut of black hearted evil. Driven to punish humankind with a fate even worse then death. Representing Shadows dark parallel. All of his hatred, grief, trauma, guilt, his cursed past, the devil that used to be on his shoulder, coaxing him to the side of evil. This final battle represents Shadow confronting his trauma and letting go of his past completely.
I don't think shadow will ever let go, he just found a way to deal with it and made some sort of clear decision to use his pain to turn it into sometime progressive and ideal. Like batman. But Shadow kills and destroys like a deadly weapon and beyond good or evil sometimes.
Stumbled upon this, but it was a great video. Well put together, and I appreciate how you approached his own game as well. I've seen the "taking candy from a baby" thrown around as a point against him, and I laugh given his japanese line is about how easy it is, and it's a well known metaphor for things being easy. But from his character and how well the endings fit was cool to see your thoughts on. My only wish was that Last Story would've shown his actual path to the ending, since it's hard to find one that fits the best. So thank you, it was a great listen, and nice to listen to straight through since it has some of the joking/sarcastic editing that is fairly common in youtube analysis videos.
Thank You so much for taking the time to watch my video! It means a lot to me, and your comment truly made my day! I'm so glad you could enjoy listening to it. I definitely think you're spot on. A lot of the scripting issues definitely gets held against shadow, especially the "this is like taking candy from a baby, which is fine by me" line. It's not even a wild lime itself, considering how much the phrase is used in the English language. I also share a similar opinion on the last story. I wish it was more than simply the final cutscenes that were declared canon because there is so much in between that is very questionable, with no true answer. I do find some enjoyment in fans trying to piece together a lot of different theories; it's a cool thing thet got going on.
@@ogflojack810 since the 3rd sonic movie is coming out in 10 months I'll spend those 2 months into getting all the info N takes on Shadow from SA2 from Sonic 06
Thank goodness you defended Shadow The Hedgehog game. So like I can see shadow ignoring humans initially because his last memory of Maria getting gunned by GUN. He has no time with his messed up mind state dealing with them. Most likely Sonic or some other friends would be their to fight without him. Apparently the humans also escaped (miraculously again like the station square incident) just leaving sonic and GUN to face the Black Arms in westopolis. what sucks is that it honestly makes more sense for Shadow to stray from the hero path due to him marked for being captured alive or dead. Oh if only Shadow ignored black doom promise to Shadow that Shadow longs to learn truth of past with the emerald since apparently no friends or Allies or eggman filled him in for it making black doom’s job easier or shadow just avoids westopolis. Then again The Commander might have been informed anyways eventually and Sonic’s friends unable to stop the Shadow wanted list. Heck even black doom in westopolis is trying to convince Shadow to seek the promise by telling him of the black arm’s similarly to shadow’s color scheme.
@@someguyand...whatever23 that was the point of Shadows game though. Shadow only saved the world in SA2 becuase Maria told him to. In his own game he saves it because HE chooses to do so by his OWN will.
Please someone send this guys video to Sega as a refresher on character! Super well thought out video without the now common "let's bash the shadow the hedgehog game" bandwagon that RU-vidrs and gaming community seem to take! Excellent work!
Ugh, I know. I get sick of the group-think mentality too. A couple RU-vidrs upload analysis videos, all saying the same thing, and the whole fandom adopts it as gospel. It’s a problem in a lot of fandoms, actually, not just Sonic.
Damn GUN underestimated and took advantage of the professor’s intelligence. And ruined everything. They got a light punishment (or none really) unlike what Chaos discovered the Knuckles Clan did to Tikal and the chao.
Super good video Logan! It was done very well! It's really crazy that though I haven't played the games, Shadow and Sonic are my favorite characters. You did a really good job talking about his character as a whole. I've also seen the baseless claims of how he is an edgy character, etc, but that's not true. Your video shows that very well! Keep up the good work Logan, and I know your next project will be really good as well.
If I may; Shadow the Hedgehog isn't a spin-off game. It's part of the main series. I also want to mention that Shadow the Hedgehog was developed in America, specifically by Sega Studios USA. So basically, the aggressive Shadow that swears was the original script, but changed when brought to Japan. Heck, it was released in America a full month before the Japanese got it. Also, it was to help line up with the more "edgy" and serious games that were going on at the time; like Jak & Daxter, Overlord, Infamous, and Prototype.
Great video, really explained why shadow is a good character.other people tend to shit on shadow the hedgehog game, even though it didn’t really fuck up his character canonicaly.
Me too, me too. Let's hope with Sega's new direction for the Sonic series that Shadow gets another chance to appear as a playable character and his character back to what it should: Just the Ultimate Lifeform that doesn't care what others think of him or what he is but someone who will protect the world and every life like his friend wanted to be and what he chooses to be. That's who Shadow is, edgelord not.
Just watched this video and...I am impressed. In corroboration with another channel, Character In-Depth, you have both introduced and helped me to understand Shadow the Hedgehog better. Upon watching the games on youtube, where Shadow was at his best, he also has become my favorite character. I also want to give you props for clarifying the vision that was being told in the STH game. How, in spite of the flaws, the game does contain a good story that helps advance Shadow's character. This is making me like the game a little more. Thanks for this vid. I pray for better Shadow portrayals in the future.
My lazy ass needs to get around to making my own Shadow video too. I share a lot of similar sentiments with you, while also disagreeing with your feelings towards Shadow in Forces. Shadow's game really is his "Black Knight" in which you really get to see how Shadow operates and who he is. I hope to throw my hat into the ring soon. Great video
17:32 hey, another reason why shadow decides to leave humans is because of the little experience he had of them due to his amnesia For example the only thing character had from humans is that a fat man used it to create robotic copies of him and that in his disordered memory police man is shooting a girl that should already be an excuse enough for him not to want to help humans
despite the not so good end presentation in shadow the hedgehog, the game put a lot of overlooked depth in shadow's character, and sonic 06 elevated that nicely, shadow from SA2 till sonic 06 was phenomenal and easily the best written character in the series, shame how silly and overlooked he became
46:25 Sonic Colors DS is actually a canon game, it was confirmed in Team Sonic Racing where we see the Mother Wisp appear in a track. I guess it and the Wii game happened simultaneously.
33:43 It's not coming from Shadow regaining his memories. It's coming from Shadow being sick and tired of everyone telling him what to do with his own life. 34:26 Shadow destroying the Black Arms had nothing to do with what Maria and Gerald wanted him to do. Shadow's doing it to bury the last remains of his past. It was never even said that he actually regained his memories at all. The Chaos Emeralds could have given him them if he had the chance to use them, but then Black Doom shows up and takes them. And by the time Shadow gets the Chaos Emeralds, he doesn't bother getting them back.
33:43 Both things can be true, especially when they correlate to one another. 34:26 I don’t agree at ALL. Shadow was clueless to what doom was doing with the emeralds, Shadow just knew he would get answers about his past if he helps doom obtain the emeralds. Shadow, when he finds out the horrible nature of Black Doom and regains his memory, which are both near seconds after each other, makes a choice to rid of Black Doom. Shadow shows his morality with such choice. He wants to rid of his past after finding out what Black Doom is in essence… which makes complete sense. …but yes in part he did want to put his past behind him… especially AFTER finding out where Doom and the black arms morally line up lol, that’s why I showed the clip seconds later Also on the note of its never said he regains his memories: there is visual representation of this. He is struggling to comprehend the parts of his past that come to mind throughout the game. Shadow upon having multiple voices appear in his head, (one being himself from earlier in the game) repeating crucial information doesn’t struggle with fairing how these thoughts came about. Physical representation is just as important as linguistic representation. You don’t need the character to openly monologue “I’ve regained my memories… blah blah blah” for it to be true. Showing is typical In storytelling a lot better than blatantly telling the viewer/reader/player. They make it very evident Shadow regained his memory.
@@ogflojack810 Shadow saying he was gonna help Black Doom was a mistranslation. In the original Japanese version of the game, he just said he was gonna get the Chaos Emeralds because they would grant him his wish. During the end of STH, Shadow proclaims that he's doing away with his past completely and is doing what he wants. Him destroying the Black Comet may have been what Gerald and Maria wanted him to do, but it wasn't done for them. That was done so he could separate himself from his past completely and never have it come back to haunt him ever again. While Shadow says "I made a promise and I'm here to keep it." in the English dub (which is probably the worst dub in Sonic history) that's not what he said in the original Japanese version of the game. Instead, he said that he was going to simply fulfill Gerald's wish and part with the past: It was a means to an end. It's also even more explicit when he proceeds to chase after Black Doom, where he explicitly says he's no longer bound to anyone at all in the slightest and how before he uses Chaos Control on the Black Comet, he tells his "abominable past" to go away: He hates all of it. Throughout Shadow's entire life, he's been told by others what his purpose is. Maria tells him it's to look over Earth, Gerald tells him it's to get revenge before the old recording of him telling Shadow his purpose is to destroy the Black Comet is dug up, Black Doom tells him it's to hand the Chaos Emeralds over to the Black Arms because of the deal made with Gerald and that Shadow should serve Black Doom because he helped create Shadow, Eggman tells him he's a Shadow Android in some story paths and that he should serve him because of that, and in others he says Shadow should serve him because Eggman is Gerald's grandson, and Sonic & co tell him he's a hero who should fight on their side. Shadow eventually decides "Screw you all. [Including Maria and Gerald pre-insanity]" Which has been to fight powerful opponents and prove his superiority, hence his rivalry with Sonic. As for what you're saying about his memories: At most he had a few flashbacks during the events of his game (flashbacks that never returned afterwards), and he has some knowledge of his past. It's only when he makes his choice that he's bound by nothing and is doing what he wants according to his own will and no one else's that he gets up. Furthermore, without his memories he doesn't have a proper sense of having actually experienced his past. He doesn't have the emotions associated with memories of his past, and the impact his past would have had on him is gone as a result. And it even makes sense from a narrative perspective. One of the big things that people complained about when it came to Shadow returning in Sonic Heroes was the fact that his sacrifice towards the end of SA2 was kind of rendered pointless. With Shadow never reclaiming his memories and subsequent emotions associated with them before burying everything from his past, that sacrifice isn't as pointless as some people would think because the Shadow who cared about Maria is still dead.
@@Watchers_Music I think you’re generally undermining just how much goes into shadow’s morality and the duality behind Shadow’s actions. I still stand by my original reply. I find the context shows Shadow regains his memory and goes after Doom on his own accord for both the sake of putting the last remains of his past behind him, while also acknowledging and pledging with his promise to Maria. Thank you for your feedback and interpretation on his character arc, along with your watch through of the video
But like despite Amy positive outlook and Maria telling them to give them a chance. To instantly simply let go of all what happened (and probably extra knowledge of the incident) seems off to me. But whatever.
Not really, Imo People get murdered, and the victims families will tend to forgive the murderer. Especially in religious circles. It's not an odd concept to me that Shadow willingly chose to forgive them, especially if that's what Maria asked for in her dying wish. Shadow then develops off of this in "Shadow The Hedgehog". Shadow stands up to doom on his on choice, not solely off of a previous promise (despite this being a factor). I respect your view tho. Thanks for checking out my video🙏🏼
I don't agree wit everythin u say but I'm glad u touched on shadows' game pretty well overall. However I wanna clarify some things. The OG jp script of heroes NEVER had shadow acknowledge memory of sonic since he jus says "that hedgehog"(SONIC referenced SA2 tho). Also HE DID straight up jus tell sonic he's gonna have to die lol. If that doesn't sound right to u keep in mind shadow in any incarnation is a very driven character who once a choice is made & there's a goal to reach he's not easily swayed out of it(look at Sonic X in Jp which has him go through the exact same character arc as the games before heroes or shadow came out). Also it's NEVER confirmed if he got his memories back. SEGA has stated this themselves & as much as I know ppl don't always trust wut they say Shadow is prob the 1 character I can truly believe them on. This is a line from a cover story by Sega “…I am not interested in peace. I don’t care what happens to others. I just don’t like it when foolish beings do whatever they please on this planet. Whether it’s the Doctor or anyone else, including you. Don’t misunderstand me.” there R many u things I feel u got more than correct in wut was bein attempted but I feel there R some crucial places u missed the mark. I totally agree wit everythin u said in the forces section tho.
That’s not true. Shadow is never confirmed nor implied to have gotten his memories. The scene that you referred to (32:56) is not of him regaining his memories, but having the theme of everyone telling Shadow who he is and what he has to do, only for him to toss all that away and decide for him “who I am”. He does not care about Black Doom, the Black Arms, Gerald, or even Maria. Shadow has thrown away the past, and continues to walk forward of his own volition
I disagree. He’s pinpointing specific memories in the timeline “please help me shadow”, “did I die”, “I will avenge those blood who spilled” All we know is “canon” is the intro cutscene and the last story. In the beginning of the game Shadow’s memories are restricted and we are shown what he remembers of Maria and the situation itself. This is a direct showing of shadow remembering more to the events and the people associated. While I do think it’s a very dualistic showing of Shadow both wanting to move forward from his past (good and bad), he also makes it clear when approaching doom that he has a promise he intends to keep. I appreciate your input and for watching the video!
@@ogflojack810 I see what you’re getting at, but there’s another interpretation for this. We already know that Shadow’s retained some of his memories since Sonic Heroes. And even in this game, no matter what path you take, and even in the start, Shadow still remembers some things like Maria. But the main point of the true story, in both its beginning and final scene, Shadow throws away the past and finally moves on. As for what he says to Black Doom, it becomes a bigger issue. As the biggest problem with the game is its translations. Many, and I mean many scenes are completely altered from the Japanese script, especially The Last Story. And whether you like the American voices better is not really the issue. It’s just that the Japanese versions are the true versions of the story. And unfortunately a lot of Shadow The Hedgehog’s (the game) good storytelling is completely butchered in the American release. I highly recommend going through Shadow and SA2 with the Japanese translations, as it betters the story. Enjoyed the video overall. Just had something to say on this point. Good job!
I just had s thought that the maybe the reason they have you kil eggman in some of these bad endings is so your know for sure it’s not the true ending and doesn’t count toward the next games
