Shaking up Extraction: Distribution Results Explained 

*Main Topic: Shaking* 1:30 There's no need to get the Weber tumbler specifically 1:52 Using a normal dosing cup and shaking the portafilter with it ++ 3:42 The issue with using a normal dosing cup ++ 21:28 Using other shakers 4:35 WDT is NOT dead ++ 16:15 WDT with the shake? 7:13 Did Lance blind taste and why it wouldn't have mattered? 11:26 What Lance is trying to do with the experimentation videos 13:54 How might RDT affect shaking? 20:53 Make the espresso the way you want 21:21 Testing pourover with the shake 21:37 Higher EY = Better? 22:06 Clumps and caking 22:22 Pours going faster and people grinding finer 23:20 Workflow *Q&A* 28:26 Skill level required? 29:09 Blind shaker for 54mm 30:17 Grind direct and use portafilter cap to shake 31:16 Is coffee still subjective with all the science and is coffee-at-home better? 33:06 Was Decent more consistent this time? 34:15 Would lack of shaking increase complexity? 34:48 Would a blind shaker with a needle inside help with distribution? 35:10 Coffee closest to Crow? 35:22 New go-to method? 36:55 Effect of shaking on releasing VOCs? 38:35 Vacuum used in testing 39:23 Could a zero-fines grinder test the boulder theory? 39:37 Funnel with 51 Breville Portafilter 39:52 Message from Jonathan Gagne 40:12 Thoughts on Italian coffee 40:57 Blooming with flow control 41:47 Time from grinding to pulling the shot makes a difference? 42:32 Why flat 9-bar to end of shot? 43:53 Secret Project 45:21 Filming inside Nespresso factory to see rolling mill grinder? 47:09 DF83 review when?

I’ve started to use the blind basket meant for backflushing as a cap for the dosing cup to shake before I put the grounds in the portafilter. Might do the job.

If we’re already repurposing acupuncture needles into WDT tools, we might as well repurpose massage guns and certain toys to vibrate the grounds in the portafilter for a level bed for this method. Maybe strapping a vibrating ring over the dosing cup would do just that.

Hey Lance, the taste jokers should already know this is a paradigm shift.. that if they use their brain it will help them with their end product. Thank you elaborating. The fines are looking for a home! We don’t want them clogging the portafilter!

I'm really enjoying the longer more freeform style of videos on this 'Unfiltered' channel. I think it's all the extra little bits of information in between your main points that you'd never normally get on a more edited/shorter video that I'm getting a lot out of. It's a bit like the kind of 'learning by osmosis' you get when working alongside someone really good.

“Sorry my tongue was drying out”. Love it, so unserious.

Lance, keep doing what you are doing. This is the kind of content the coffee community needs more of.

Can vouch for worst espresso I've ever tasted being from Italy after my trip last year, from Rome to Pisa and Cinque Terre, every shop had over roasted and stale beans. Best espresso I ever had was in a paper cup walking out of speckled axe in Portland Maine.

I live in Italy... Have to agree 100% with you. Italians really really think that their espresso is amazing. And until I got to know Specialty coffee, I hated coffee because of the italian culture; I drank it with a lot of sugar, because it is so bitter!

Loved this series, learned a lot, got super invested 😬 so got myself a clone blind shaker. Arrived two days ago and super surprised at the results. Thanks for spending so much time on this topic and your detailed explanations. Seriously Lance, this series should the “Masterclass” of distribution methods 😉

This Lance guy knows how to make fresh Tap.

Now i feel like we need a horizontal tapping masterclass XD

@Lance, regarding the RDT, one full press of that Weber bottle gives out 0.2g of water when you spray from close distance and you don't squirt it around (you can measure yourself) Two presses gives 0.4g of water, when converted to microliters it is 400 microliters, if all that water ended up in beans and you dose 20g of beans, you're getting 20 microliters per gram.

Just an idea - wetting the basket may make tapping easier as the ground particles will stick to the sides of the basket, possibly preventing gaps

A video on best decaf roasting companies? And maybe how to brew them to get the most flavor out?

Thanks for these videos. I really appreciate your methodical approach. Your second channel is actually the only one I have notifications turned on for :)

Firstly, I would like to thank you for sharing your incredible knowledge on all things coffee through your RU-vid channel. I would like to think I am just a wee bit wiser because of all of them, but most recently your analysis of distribution methods, which has seem to cause quite a stir (pun intended). I have only been grinding at home for about a year after using pre-ground coffee when our BBE, our first ever espresso machine, died an inglorious death about 5 years ago. I just recently implemented your slow feeding recommendation on our new DF83 V2 which greatly improved my shot consistency and sped up my pours even at a reduced grind size - and the shots tasted great! Fast forward to this morning, and I pulled back-to-back “god” shots after vigorously shaking my grounds in the distribution cup before dumping them in the portafilter basket and then levelling with a very light WDT. For a couple days prior I had tried shaking with the portafilter attached to the dosing cup, but while the pours were good, they were a little slower and not as tasty as the ones I had today. Anyway, sorry for the long winded post and thanks for all that you do. And to loosely paraphrase Aeromsith: espresso’s a journey as well as a destination and we just don’t know just what tomorrow brings! Wishing you all the best from The Great White North!!

Man I just love you, you are simply hilarous

I love this and what you’ve been doing. Thank you. What you said at 23 minutes about time is a huge thing to think about!

Annoying that this doesn’t show in my subs despite being subscribed, good thing I noticed it in the home tab.

Thanks for explaining your methodology Lance, it makes sense now. Very interesting results

Hi Lance. First off, thank you for putting this level of detail and technical knowledge into these technique. It is unfortunate if others provided some inappropriate/non-constructive feedback. I used to work with an engineer that always gave the advice "If you're going to make crap, at least do it repeatably". The advice was meant to imply to first try to make the process (or methodology) repeatable, and then adjust the other process parameters to move it a to a range where a the final product is acceptable. I think this advice applies to the espresso world as well. It seems like ensuring you have a solid puck prep method that gives you repeatable results is the first battle...while the second battle is adjusting the grind size / brew ratio to dial in the taste. I notice that you touch on repeatability in some of your videos....so here is my ask. Could you do a puck prep video that focus's SOLEYon the repeatability of the different methods (or combination of methods)? Here's the tough part that I think your experience would help with. Could you choose your top 5 methods (or method combinations) that you feel are able to produce good tasting espresso? Granted it's up to the user to find the correct brew ratio and grind setting, but ideally it would be great if you could make a statement like "These 5 methods all are capable of making good espresso....but method "blah blah blah" has been found to be the most statistically repeatable". Here's the data that proves it. (obviously a statistically significant experiment to prove it would be needed). Perhaps you could reiterate several times in the video that it is up to the barista to dial in the correct brew ration and grind size so folks don't think the method is end all be all for taste. Also it would be great if you give some pointers on what are some things people typically do that significantly hurt the repeatability of their puck prep method. Ok...thats all I got. Thanks again for your solid work. Keep it up!!

Your art of talking is really entertaining! Could you maybe make a tutorial about horizontal tapping? ☕️

I have a theory around the mix of fines and larger boulders. Grind to portafilter or dosing cup larger grounds settle towards the bottom finder grinds at top. Heaps of fine grinds together slow down the flow. When shaken the different size grounds large medium fine are randomly distributed in the puck. With a better mix of grounds you get a higher extraction from each bean fragment and faster flow.

It was always annoying to use the tumblers for me, because I was too gentle with them, not wanting to scratch it up, I'd just spin it and hope the centrifugal forces gets the coffee off, but sometimes it didn't. Your ringing was pretty... vigorous. Thanks for explaining the drop height thing, it seems that does make a difference! I didn't think the distribution worked well when I was using the tumbler 'as intended'.

Informative and entertaining! ❤❤❤

Lance, not only do I learn a lot watching your vids, but the entertainment value is very high! You crack me up with your examples, comments, and acting! What is you opinion regarding tampers? Do you agree with the ~30lb. pressure tamper? What are your thoughts about the tamper base - flat, curved, threaded, or waffle lattice? Thank you, thank you, thank you!

Your objectivity is the most valuable part of your mindset

Love you lance. You’re kicking ass. ❤

Thank you for the quality content! I was supeised to see your shots ran longer with the blind shaker. I used to grind into a glass jar and shook it pressed against the porta filter. With the same grind setting shots almost always ran slower so I started underdosing. Maybe the basket holes got clogged more while shaking. I used it with mazzer grinders.

@35:25 - OMG, can’t wait! Looking forward LH. ❤

"Science of Shaking" rabbit holes exist! =Granular Convection s a phenomenon where granular material subjected to shaking or vibration will exhibit circulation patterns similar to types of fluid convection.[1] It is sometimes called the Brazil nut effect,[2] when the largest of irregularly shaped particles end up on the surface of a granular material containing a mixture of variously sized objects.[3] This name derives from the example of a typical container of mixed nuts, in which the largest will be Brazil nuts. The phenomenon is also known as the muesli effect since it is seen in packets of breakfast cereal containing particles of different sizes but similar density, such as muesli mix. Under experimental conditions, granular convection of variously sized particles has been observed forming convection cells similar to fluid motion.[4][5]

I just order a shaker and can’t wait to try!!!

I also concur that shaking grounds (in the Comandante jar) does accelerate the drawdown significantly (20ish seconds faster on a usual 3 min drawdown where I'm very consistent usually). Higher extraction too (no tools, it tastes more extracted, so bias is possible here).

I'm still catching up on your videos and still green in my coffee journey. Your passion for coffee is infectious and makes me think your decaf has been 're-caffed' (new word). Personally, I have found that a little WDT helps my horizontal tap more evenly than straight tap. Question, depending on grinder (hopper vs single dose) do you weigh ground vs whole bean dosage?

A bit late for the breaking bad show, but it's amazing. You got Better Call Saul after if you want more, it starts off not quite on the same level, but ends up becoming more breaking bad-like as it progressed. There's also the movie "El Camino' which continues one surviving characters story immediately after the conclusion of Breaking Bad.

Just from shaking the grinds in the collection cup on by Sette and using nothing else as a distribution tool, I noticed a huge improvement.

Love it! keep coming with these awesome vids. Love the science behind it!

Also, one big variable that I've not really seen much on online, but based on my experience makes a big difference is grinding with frozen coffee beans. I'd really like to see some testing for this!

It's funny I think the unspoken thing is that many people actually want there to be a viable alternative to WDT. I don't hate WDT but I wish I could do it more consistently, quickly, and with less mess. I'm all for shaking as part of the workflow and I'm interested in seeing how the concept of the shaker funnel evolves. I've got a few ideas too, and if you look at the artpresso la marzacco dosing cup thingy there's already people thinking of alternatives

Great video. And very funny too. 👍

Now test using a vibratory mixer to settle the grounds lol. People use them for mixing hobby paints, tattoo ink, and chemicals in labs, I wonder how it'll work with coffee

We need a company with a great portafilter design, like Canal maybe, to release a blind shaker that fits their pf perfectly, held magnetically, with no lips or edges for grounds to get stuck (and a lid, like the WW).

Ok, this is a day later (in the Seattle area). I went through the paces of work flow. 17gr medium dark Peruvian, no RDT: shaken in cup, no WDT. 40 seconds for 36gr out. Same, but added WDT. No difference. However, when I did RDT first for the 17gr, shaken and no WDT, my extraction slowed to 26 seconds, 35.4gr out! I did use, and always use a puck screen with center hole for my Linea Micra. Very significant difference! My guess is, that with a lighter roast, there will not be as much difference with/without RDT, but I will be going to Ethiopian soon.

I'm totally going to have my coffee fly all over the kitchen with the blind shaker too! 😅

My puck prep drastically improved with my Duomo.

Multi-directional compaction (shaking/vibration) > unilateral compaction (pressing down). WDT pushes sideways more than it shakes.

I was using the blind shaker dosing cup when they first came out. I moved away from it because I didn't like how the coffee would cling to the walls and clumps would be present in the bed. Was dosing into a cup and WDP which I felt gave fine results. This week changed a couple things. Went back to just the shaker cup and my decent tamper v5 arrived. I already knew that I wasn't the most consistent with my tamp. My espresso machine is in a corner and my arm that I tamp with faces the wall. And also if I'm lucky I only pull about 3 shots a day. Anyway blind shaker cup and self leveling tamper has shot up my consistency this week. I do want to get better with just using a regular tamper, but I need to get that regular practice in

I so dig these type of videos, Keep it up! 👍👍

I have a mini parisian cocktail shaker (that also has sloped sides) I'm gonna try that as replacement ❤️ weirdly I was already shaking in my dosing cup all of the time

the aromas in the shaker would be redistributed more evenly . not lost . it is a closed container

Lance is trying to take our guns! 😂 Densification makes sense.

I was going to suggest shaking grounds for pour over. I'm going to try this

Everyone seems to have gotten the idea that WDT is dead and rushed out to buy a Weber shaker as a result :p I'll never be able to re-sell my 5 extra WDT tools now! I did think WDT did help improve espresso quality (manual tool is what I prefer) vs not doing any distribution basically (maybe with a finger) which is what I was doing before I think (it's been a while!).

Even using the Weber Squirter on your tongue would change the taste profile of the coffee :-)

Thank you Lance.

Thanks for sharing! I feel like you glossed over something very meaningful in your results-with NO dosing funner between shaker and pf, apparently the extractions were lower again. Like the improvement from the shaker depends on a gap, which you mentioned causes it to fall more centrally. How big was the difference? Because this would seem to have dramatic implications for the use of shakers, or the design of new ones…

When I thought I am done spending money on coffee gear… here I am getting an MH3 bomber shaker, at least it’s cheaper than the Weber and looks pretty much the same thing. 😁

I am still at a loss on how to work the Blind Shaker correctly. Shaking indeed does compact the grinds. Which then makes it a PITA to distribute them level in the basket. Horizontal tapping does not cut it.

Relelator in CHA! Miss that vibe here bc it’s closed,

Have you tried making things hydrophobic by using ceramic cat spray? There are a ton available these days and not too expensive

I'm just trying to find the how-to video about horizontal tapping... Lance(?)

Good video. What are some of the cheaper alternatives to Weber Blind Shaker? I checked the price and its 5 times price of high quality WDT.

Lance, how do you dial in now if you are saying that it’s ok for the shots to pull faster with this shake and bake technique? How do I know that I’m at the right grind size? Typically I would start by looking for a 2:1 ratio in roughly 25-30 seconds as a starting point….

Better distribution means more even extraction, meaning more balanced sensory atributes. More TDS (EY% with the same ratio) means more extraction, but can be from an uneven extraction with unbalanced sensory atributes (sourness with bitterness together, etc). Only my thoughts.

Hey Lance I just had a thought….. what about vibrating?? In my profession, when we want to consolidate something, level it out or remove air we use a vibrator. What if the portafilter was lightly vibrated?? Cheers bruh

A similar vacuum cost less than 20 bucks at Walmart. I haven't seen it in a while.

Any point to shaking grounds for a French press?

If I understood correctly. Adding a mesh puck screen also increased efficiency, right, but slowed things down? So to add a mesh and do shaker would be even more efficient?

let's say I have a C40 or any manual handgrinder...can I just shake the jar? is that the same?

This might be a silly question, but can you dose directly into the shaker from the grinder, like a DF64?

Could you, when you make a non-decaf, see what your extraction yield is if you shake and WDT with something like an autocomb and answer that as a comment as it wouldn't make sense I guess to make a whole video about this one question? I think you mentioned on your "normal" channel that the grounds closest to the bottom were denser than up top when using the shaker only. As the auto comb doesn't come near the bottom, I think it might make more sense than we think to shake and WDT. Also, would it make sense if you already sprayed your beans before grinding to get rid of static electricity to also spray it in the shaker?

Mahvelous info.

Preach brother 🙏 What decaf you’re drinking?

I think two things can be true: Tasting wouldn't have made sense in this particular test for the reasons you laid out. Saying these distributions methods are the best/worst from EY results is premature, when the end goal is taste. Your theory on why more EY is better for taste in this case is certainly very plausible, but ultimately a theory, which can be wrong for many reasons we might not have considered. End of the day the measured variable is not the goal, which is why many people asked about taste.

Thank you Lance. Great discussion here. Rest up. I love the coffee world getting tetchy. That’s it. I’m gonna shake then nuatate. Then apologise. Then double tamp that puck!! I’m in love with coffee. And I don’t care who knows it. ❤😂 🧝‍♂️

@lancehedrick loving the discussion. About extraction: Lowering the espresso shot time, with higher extraction, could potentially reduce the caffeine dose per cup (even with more tds)? Could you clarify that to us? I saw some studies relating caffeine dose with water contact time. Less time, less caffeine? Could your shacking method also make a healthier espresso? :) Your method made my 20s paper filter+umikot+wdt shot down to 13s with WW Unibasket, same 078S setting. 😱 Thanks a lot.

This is definetley sth i can try with my flair pro 2. C40 cup with funnel to the portafilter, and shake. Curious to find out what happens with no wdt

So I've just ordered a shaker 😅😂🎉

I hate the 30 sec "law". don't make coffee as a robot, try and feel it, I think it's better to trial and test by taste. I've got some incredible shots in 20sec... it will be harder in the start, but after a while you'll get the feel of it and it will get easier and enjoyable. and most important you'll get the coffee that you like...

I love hate that I can intently watch this entire video. What an affliction to have espresso as one of my autisms

If I slowfeed, this shaking should not have any more impact?

Hey Lance has anyone else confirmed your results with their own testing?

I wonder, if you wdt for long enough, if will have the same effect if the blind shaker. Where you’re trying to migrate the fines into the larger particles and make the coffee more dense as a whole. I’ll try it tomorrow.

good stuff, lol!

Lance! Thank you again for what youre doing for the coffee community!! Ill start trying this for my pour overs. Also, I have to know, what decaf were you drinking? Im on the hunt for better. Thanks!

Whats your coffee machine you personally use?

What decaf are you drinking?

Lance, you made an off comment about how "ringing the bell" when releasing grounds could have a static reducing effect. I'm wondering how important this was to your overall results. You wouldn't mind repeating the entire setup again but with a few different shakers, right?

can anyone decipher the ending to what Lance says at 39:37? "Someone said, 'I have a funnel on my 54mm Breville portafilter with my [indecipherable].'"

Lance, I know you know what extraction is, and obviously I do too, but could you give a tldr for the rest of the plebs one what extraction EXACTLY means…😅

People have had some pretty negative reactions to all this this past week but I just don’t get it. Why can’t people just be happy we have someone making interesting content for us on a topic that we enjoy. If you care about coffee at this level (which is why we’re here) people already think we’re weird being a dick on top of that doesn’t help 😂

Taylor Swift approves of this technique.

Whats "Draw Down" mean or pertain to

I love how he is making fun of all the snobby douches from the Home Barista Forums. That place is full of "My way is the only way is the right way.........".

Breaking Bad was such a great show. Enjoy!

A silly thought: Aluminium for example oxides very fast, within a second it has a protection to prevent further oxidation. How it works on coffee I don’t know, but when shaking you allow oxygen to surround more coffee then when it goes stright into the portafilter. The longer the shimmishake, the more oxygen. The taste of the coffee should be less, because the pulling time is faster. In my head meaning the protection surface made by oxidation has a smoother surface and allowing the water to go faster through the puck. 🤷

That can’t be a decaf 🤣

Shaking does not seem to solve the channeling problem for me. WDT fixes channeling.

The results “shook” you? 🤣