I put 105 Di2 on a bike for my wife - she struggled a bit with FD shifts, usually from small to big ring, where the tension required a bit of oomph. The electronic shifting has alleviated all that for her, and now she can cross chain to her heart's content. I could have messed around with the FD and the cabling, but I think Di2 def solved a problem in this case
In Germany current retail prices for the 105 di2 groupset are around 850€ which is just above 900$. At this price point the additional charge compared to mechanical shifting is ~200$ and therefore finally worth calling it the groupset of the people even as di2.
Very important comment here :) This makes me even wonder more why the big brands (Canyon, Rose etc.) charge soo much more for the 105 di2 than for the mechanic one. For example when you look at the Canyon Ultimate CF SL 7 2599 € vs. the Canyon Ultimate CF SL 7 di2 3999 €. The additional 4iiii Powermeter (350 €) can definitely not explain this huge gap... Guess this is marketing hocus pocus :D
I had Shimano Di2 11 speed electronic shifters and now have SRAM Force AXES 12 speed electronic shifting. I have really enjoyed both systems. In the past with mechanical shifting I would have to use two hands to shift my Shimano Di2 when moving the brake lever to change gears because of the longer throw especially during the cooler months of fall thru spring when my arthritis would cause me the most problems. But now with the push of a button I can painlessly change gears whenever the need arises. Electronic shifting I love it and think that it is worth every penny of the cost. (Year around riding for me) Oh yeah, never any cable adjusting a real plus.
You meant mechanical re: two-hands shifting, right? Not Di2? Anyway, THIS. People forget that 105 Di2 and now SRAM Apex AXS allows the masses with arthritis or wrist weakness to just tap a button. And those who hate on hydraulic disc brakes don't realize the access to cycling it allows people when anyone with a pinky can come to a full stop. Game changers.
Great episode, good insights. Roadie here. FWIW, in January I got a bike with electronic shifting, my first foray into this (SRAM Force). Really liked it, for all the reasons you enumerated. Recently I’ve been riding my older bike with Ultegra manual shifting. That’s when I really noticed how much better the shifting (esp front derailleur) is - so much smoother, easier. The other big thing I noticed was of course how much force it takes from my hands with Ultegra vs the slight movement with Force. That was eye opening. I’m a convert, but of course manual shifting works great, as do rim brakes, etc.
Electronic shifting is an example of a brilliant product that I absolutely do not want. I'm not racing and shifting under high wattage, I like my bike to be simple and I've already got enough recharging to keep track of in my daily life. If my future bike has it, I'm sure I'll enjoy the user experience, but for the added cost, I'd rather have a mechanical shifting bike and a new gaming console than electronic shifting!
Roadie here. I have a 21 yo Calfee with mechanical Campy Chorus. It’s reliable, bombproof, and requires very little maintenance. After trying electronic shifting (Shimano Ultegra) on a Backroads trip, I knew I had to go electronic for my next bike. So now I have a 2 yo BMC TeamMachine with SRAM Force AXS. I ride both bikes but find I’m much more willing to shift more frequently to be in the most optimal gear with the BMC. It’s the difference between a quick tap with the SRAM vs a more conscious physical push of the shift levers for the Campy mechanical setup. So in the end, even though I have to monitor 4 different batteries with the SRAM, I enjoy riding the BMC more and feel I ride more efficiently on it. But I won’t give up my Campy bike either; I doubt the SRAM drivetrain will last 20+ years.
Thanks for another excellent video, and I gotta say, I'm with you - I don't need or want electronic shifting. I too dislike the industry pushing us toward it. Mechanical drive trains are brilliant and elegant. I don't want my bike to require charging. I prefer HUMAN POWER.
I'm sure Di2 is nice but I'm satisfied with my mechanical group sets on all three of my bikes: gravel, road, and MTB. I hope that the industry doesn't force us all into electronic shifting.
I just bought a new Giant Advanced TCR with the 105 di2, it took me two weeks of research to finally make a descision. After a liitle bit more than 1000 km of cycling, I‘m super happy with it. Shifting is awesome, Even though it took me a while to adjust myself to Shimano after 13 years of Campy.
ive had 105 di2 for half a year now the feature that drew me to it was the Full Synchronized Shift mode where it automatically shifts the front and rear derailleur to the next hardest gear ratio with the push of a button ie you can go from the lowest to highest ratio and back with only two buttons this is my first bike with drop bars so its one less thing i have to learn/think about when I'm riding
I have had 1st generation ultegra di2 for 10 years now and it has been bomb proof. still going strong with the og battery. ive even upgraded it to get the bluetooth readings on my wahoo. its been a fun experience over the years and i have no regrets.
Same here, still works on my 2012 Cannondale SuperSix and now have GRX Di2 on my gravel bike. Love that I no longer have to worry about if my shifting because it just works every time.
I agree with everything you said. What I would like to know (the true reason) is why they (industry) are pushing us in this direction? Both my mechanical Ultegra and GRX 800 series work flawlessly, and I don't have to plug anything in. I do agree there is a place for it, though. Someone who has finger/hand mobility issues would be a great candidate. However, not every challenged cyclist is a rich cyclist, and $900 is still a lot of money.
Because they will sell more stuff at a higher price? The same way road bikes suddenly need wide tyres, so you need a new bike because older fork, brake and frames won't fit 30mm tyres? Something like that?
I like the way you present information. Have to say I don’t need or want electronic shifting on my bikes . Simple is better. My wife however has arthritis in her hands and even though she can still use manual shifting and does on most days , she does have a gravel bike with sram electronic shifting which makes it much easier on her hands . So there is a place for it , but not everyone really needs it.
I’ve run Di2 since it was first released. To be honest it’s a joy: it never requires adjustment,faster shifting and better hood ergonomics in particular. Is it worth it? That’s person dependent.
Thanks for this. Considering getting the canyon endurace 105di2 if it ever comes back in stock. Upgrading from 105 rim alu frame for hopefully added compliance of wider tires and carbon frame, so quite some change.
I was a reluctant adoptee of beep-boop shifting a few years ago, and while it has suited me fine, I'm actually aiming to move back to analogue (hopefully scooping an 11-speed grx or sword group) this winter when I sell my gravel race bike.
I have been using SRAM Rival electronic shifting since last year. Do I need it? No. Do I love it? Yes. If you’ve got an extra $900 sitting around, I think electronic shifting is a pretty nice upgrade. Fewer cables is also a nice plus IMO. Having it sync with my Wahoo to let me know which gear I’m in is also something that I find myself looking at all the time on rides.
For recreation, get whatever bells and whistles gets you excited about riding. On the other hand for utility (commuting/shopping), maybe stick with something cheaper and with less maintenance.
As a sometime bikepacker I have no desire to be stuck somewhere with a non-functional gearset - even if I do carry a spare spoke to magyver a stick shift (like Lachie Morton)
My GRX Di2 has gone through hell and still works flawlessly. Which I why I just ordered 105 Di2 for my coming winter bike. Found it on sale so it was closer to the price of mechanical.
The shifting down a large number of gears is especially useful when you need 15-20 km to leave your large European city of choice, it really helps with the traffic lights while riding in traffic.
Love my GX AXS on my mountain bike as you shift quite often. On my 2018 Specialized Venge I'm just happy shifting with a 105, not much reaching for gears at a moment!
I'm old school and often kick and scream into newer technology until the issues have been worked out. 29ers is a great example of that. I still refuse to convert my bikes over to electronic for a number of tge reasons you noted. Makes me faster, no. Makes it more enjoyable, no. Makes it more reliable, no. Been riding all forms bikes since 1988 with cable actuated shifters. I've never had a cable failure. Did dirt and grim interfere with performance, yes, but it didn't stop me from riding or shifting. Having been in the industry it drives me crazy to force customers to adopt a narrative. The pros race on it, they have 24/7 support and don't drop any coinage if an issue arrises, or when it arrives. Electronic shifting for the masses or the common rider does not address the true common rider. My wife as an example. Beautiful road bike with Ultegra Di2. She is the true recreational rider. Inflate tires and go for a ride. Unfortunately her occasional rides turned into frustration when more than once the batteries were dead after sitting a long time or they died during the ride after sitting a long time. Being the husband I took heat for it (still trying to figure out that one). Being the wrench that I am her bike now has mechanical shifting. Old school speaking, no to electronic shifting and internal routing.
Good video. I’m doing research on my next road bike after 12 or so years. Last road bike was 105 mechanical. Bike I’m looking at is $1k difference for 105 and 105 Di2. My mtb’s run sram AXS and I like it a lot. It’s mostly an experience rather than a performance boost. For the mtb’s I find it much much easier to adjust and tune the drivetrain. In fact, one AXS equipped bike I own has never needed an adjustment. All that being said, I need to find another $1k for my new road bike budget 😂
I’ve been really happy with my 2014 Trek Madone 2.5 (Ultegra), but I’ve been wanting to upgrade to a new carbon Trek with fully integrated cables and disc brakes. Unfortunately all the decent ones are electronic shift now. I really don’t want to have to charge my bike… just pump the tires and roll out.
I have noticed that folks either go Di2 (AXS if you're SRAM) or go to the dark side to shift friction. I personally went friction while my partner went AXS. I agree with what you said. Electronic shifting is excellent, and I've never had a more effortless RD adjustment than AXS electronic shifting. It's fast, accurate and is one less thing to occupy your mind when grinding up that hill or making that breakaway. I hate how you are stuck with hydro disc brakes with the newer groupsets. I hate how you must constantly reset the self-adjusting pads and how dirt can throw the brake pistons off. At least you can micro-adjust and accurately dial out any brake rub with mechanical brake options. (Even though you have to do it more often, it is at least predictable.) Regarding friction, I love how you are no longer tied to a brand/ groupset. You can chop and change out different parts and still work. I've even mixed other cogs from different cassette groups from various brands and for different speeds, and friction still works. If you are a tinkerer like me, friction shifting is the way to go and is a giant middle finger to the major drivetrain brands. Alternatively, I suppose you can go single-speed and skip all the above. Having your phone tethered to your bike is also annoying; another thing to pair and another thing to charge, as you said.
I realize the big shiny item with 105 di2 is is all things electronic. The one thing that I can't overlook when I reflect whether I should have gone di2 or not...the 12 speed cassette. I do think that will matter. and for that reason, I wish I would have spend the extra when buying my bike, I would have gotten a frame color that I really wanted and I wouldn't be wanting to upgrade now that will cost me extra now to get the 12 speed experience! upgrading from 105 mechanical to di2 is more about 12 speed for me than it is electronic shifting.
I like that they exist. having more options is usually good thing (as long as they're all compatible!). Having never tried one, though, it seems that the price delta is too much.
@@jarhead4657 It's relative, I guess. My current bike was less than $200 new. In over 17k miles, I've spent maybe $400 in upgrades/replacements (new wheels, convert from 3x8 flatbar to 1x11 drops, etc). Is your bike better? For sure. Is it 5 times better? Probably not. But if you can afford/justify that cost, it doesn't really matter. It's worth it for you. I've always been curious about electronic shifting, but again, the jump in price is too much (for me).
Triathletes not wanting to pay a fortune for a group set really appreciate the 105 Di2 when the bike is setup with the remote buttons on aero bars so they don’t need to change positions for shifting. Very nice.
Never missed electronic shifting nor do I miss disc brakes. My bike weighs 6.7 kg. and I want to stay it that way. This stuff only adds expenses, complexity and weight. What do I gain? Bragging rights? Hardly these days. Gear wanking parking at the coffee shop? Probably not. My 'Ultegra' mechanical shifting has been just fine for the last 6 years and I enjoy the feel of it.
105 Di2 hoods and disk brakes is the same as Ultegra Di2 version. Including the weight. GC Performance compared and weighted it. The only difference with the 105 version is it’s intentionally crippled without the top ‘hood button’ feature for shifting and there is no external ‘blip buttons’ option.
The prices will go down. Electronic shifting is a few buttons, a servo motor, and a couple microchips. Cheap! Mechanical shifters have to be machined and assembled well, they have to have way more smaller parts. And electronic shifting allows folks with arthritis to ride longer and later in life. Plus, over time, electronic shifting means way less Pfaff, fewer visits to the shop, and more time not thinking about your shifting, adjustments, replacing cables, "tune-ups", etc. Shifters no longer "gum up" due to old grease, they no longer have pawls that break, there's no cable "stretch" and no ferrules to seat, no cables to rust or fray, no cable pull ratios to jerry-rig, and no trim shift! You already charge your smartphone daily, and your smart watch weekly...you can charge your Di2 or AXS batteries 3x/year.
Interesting point to know, r7100 cassettee is in fact same shape as r8100 cassette despite r7100 is not officially equipped with HG+. Rear derailleur shifting is close enough to 8150 FD that you won't tell the difference. FD is a bit slow, but since the chainring requires the shirting teeth to catch the chain, it shifts just as well as other higher end ones. Anyways, I grab mine when it is sub-1000 usd. (those kind of stock that is stripped from whole-sale bikes) So, 100% no complains as it is in fact cheaper than the msrp for mechanical 12sp 105 released recently.
I have no experience with electronic shifting myself, but several riders around me have told me how their Di2 systems make shifting less burdensome on long rides. That makes sense. The more you shift, the more effort. Electronic shifting alleviates that. Now I have a mechanical 105 11-speed groupset on my bike. I have absolutely no problem with it, and I won't spend $1,800 USD to upgrade it to 105 Di2. That said, if I were in the market for a new bike, I'd seriously consider models that come with 105 Di2.
I have the 105 mechanical version of this bike and it shifts flawlessly. The bike is fast, stiff and very smooth, but the frame is a little too compliant.
I say yes. We need electronic shifting. Please don't troll that comment, I'll explain. Electronics are cheaper to produce, even though the industry is not selling it to us that way. I think the more electronic becomes common ground on bikes and people get to try it they will be sold on it for it's ease of use and performance benefits. We are seeing less frames from manufacturers that are compatible with mechanical and only accept electronic groups so together I think and hope the future demand will bring the price down. Dura-Ace is over $4000 you say, well you don't really need Dura-Ace do you? I have had SRAM eTap and now I have DA Di2 and I will never go back to mechanical. I love the spot on shifting every time and the auto trim feature. Charging? I don't mind that either because it's only once every couple of months. No more cables to replace or adjustments to be made, it just works.
I’ve had Di2 since 2015. IMHO, the true benefit of the Shimano Di2 is, when paired with a Garmin head unit, the gear combination can be seen. I never really noticed this benefit until I was trying to help my wife, who was a new rider, understand how, why and when to shift. As we all probably remember, shifting efficiently is a skill that took some to learn. However, when I put Di2 on my wife’s bike along with adding the gear combo display on her Garmin, seeing 50-17,19,,21,etc made it easier to grasp shifting up and down. To that end , if the industry ever wanted to lower the shifting learning curve, they should start thinking of Di2 as actually being the best option for beginners and market (along with price) Di2 as such.
I am generally onboard with electronic shifting. My main gripe is it's vastly overpriced. I've had a similar experience to you where I thought my di2 was charged and then went out on a ride and could only shift the rear. To be fair, that bike sat for like 3 months between rides, though. I don't think that would happen if my di2 bike was my daily ride.
Electronic shifting is good. Get on with the times people, prices will come down. On top of this the A7X is such a good value bike. Especially in Australia. If i didn't have a Canyon Endurace already i'd have bought one too!
I also feel the same, you said, “Shimano 105 is a groupset for the people,” how can something that is supposed to be for the people be so expensive that the majority of the people can’t even afford it? I always watch your videos in this one stands out. Thank you for posting you’re not the only one that feels this way.
i feel like it really depends because obviously if you're trying to save every watt and go for those KOMS di2 might be worth it but for most people it just feels like a little too much work and too much money, it's like hydraulic disc brakes yeah i bet they work better but mechanical still works just fine and is cheaper
For super long distance riding, you sometimes end up with some finger weakness/nerve damage. I have found switching from. mechanical to hydraulic/di2 has alleviated all of my issues. Specificially, I just finished PBP for a second time and my fingers have no issues whereas the previous iteration, I had numbness and weakness for several weeks after PBP.
Honestly I've been using DI2 and now SRAM AXS for years and when ever I go back to my bikes with mechanical I wish for them to be electronic only my bike with 9 speed Microshift Advent is the only mechanical geared bike where I never had problems with. After 4 tries to get my 12 speed SRAM GX (mechanical) to shift right I gave up and I'm also buying a GX AXS upgrade kit soon. My Ribble CGR SL with moslty Ultegra mechanical is also not shifting perfectly, the front derailleur in particular doesn't work well, and I've already switched all cables twice but the interalcable routing in that bike is just horrible, buying an electronic shifting gravelbike next year to replace it! Up to 11 speed, mechanical shifting works great (if the internalrouting of the frame is designed well enough and not like my Ribble) but 12-speed is just so easy to get wrong I would only recommend it to people who have the time (and knowledge) or a bikeshop nearby, for everyone else that wants 12-speed get electronic and thank me later!
Would I love to have electronic shifting. Helll yeah, especially for the clean look. Will I pay to upgrade my already damn fine mechanical groupo. Nah. Maybe in 10 years time when its new road bike time (and as you say, we may have no option).
My issue is. When u have to replace parts, it becomes expensive. Another issue for me is the longevity for the parts/system. I wear out a mechanical group set in 2 yrs of riding. With the electronic groupset, im not sure how long it would last.
Electronic shifting is not for me - heavier, more expensive, doesn't add significant performance, and harder for me to trouble shoot and work on. Also, I like the more tactile feel and engagement of mechanical. There seem to be good options available to stick with mechanical aside from SRAM and Shimano, thankfully, and I think Shimano 105 is going to be offered in mechanical?
It looks great. Don't like stressing about batteries though. One thing not talked about here is the extra gear. Did you find that at all helpful? Is it mostly just-another-gear or is there wider range?
If you're running 2x or 3x it makes sense, as indexed front derailleur suck.For the rear, I see no need. To me friction front, indexed rear is the water to go!
I've said it before and I'll say it again. Electronic shifting is planned obsolescence and locks you into a vendors ecosystem with another big cash layout to switch to another manufacturer. That system is only one app update (or firmware update) from being phased out without the "owner" being able to do a thing about it. Ultimately the one who controls or app or firmware owns the system, consumers are just renting it.
I don't have Di2 but I do have SRAM on 2 bikes. I don't know if it is the same situation, but I had a fully charged battery die on me. I fully charged both batteries and was getting ready for a ride. My brother texted me to tell me he would rather ride gravel bikes. I went over a month without riding my road bike. (I was sick once and spent the rest of the time on the gravel bike.) I went for a ride on the road bike without checking the battery level. I got 15 minutes in and the front derailleur battery was dead. I just kept doing my ride in the small since I was alone. SRAM says to remove the batteries when not riding. I left the batteries on the bike. There must be a little bit of a drain even when not in use. I have no idea if it is the same with Shimano though.
Great balanced review of the 105 Di2. My wife has arthritis in her hands so I’m going to upgrade her bike to 105 Di2. This is a pretty complex upgrade-have you considered doing a video on that? It would be right up your alley!
I've heard that said before when people mention electronic shifting, but I don't think people really do look at their gears anyway... unless there's a shifting issue of course. I certainly don't, nor do I look at the shifters on my bikes or cars.
Di2, eTap, and Campy wireless have their place BUT it shouldn’t and never be the only groupset. I hate that manufacturers are pushing us towards one type of groupset when I want my freedom to choose a quality product that is mechanical over electronic. I have R9100 mechanical and I want to have that for as long as I can over a Di2 variant but unfortunately those parts will run out and then what? I give up on the cycling? My bikes become useless dust collectors cause most of my components are for rim brakes and golly gee have those been axed hard. Good luck to the next generation of new cyclists. You’re being priced out for profits and not getting the quality and choice you deserve. Moral of the story: get a track bike
The nicest part about electronic shifting is that when you pull out your bike after not riding it for a bit, you know the shifting is going to be just as good as when you first set it up. Do you NEED that? No, but it's certainly nice to have.
With the upgrade prices in my country it doesn’t make any sense to upgrade my existing mechanical 105. It’s better to sell the old bike and buy a new one with an electronic group set. Because then I get everything new. Newer bikes also have better tire clearance and other modern features making it a better long term choice . Also the frame would be designed for an electric group set.
Great video! A key benefit of electronic shifting for me is the cockpit ergonomics. It's great to be able to ride on the hoods, and reach down with your pinky to change gear. Or fit climbing shifters so that you can climb with your hands on the tops and still change gear. And, finally, I love being able to view my current gear on my head unit, saves having to keep peering between my legs.
They need to design a cheap electronic shift for 6 or 7 speed. This would be very good for a kids bike. Grip shifts and trigger shifts are too hard for kids to shift, they don't have enough hand strength.
Electronic shifting is nice for the enthusiast, but for the masses hell no. It's better to recommend mechanical 105 and put the price difference between the mechanical and Di2 105 into other parts of the bike: a proper bike fit, cycling computer, wheels & tires, etc.
I have two bikes aethos/ultegra and canyon/DA with 12 speed electronic. I have done the updates for the rr der from Aug 29 on both bikes. I have done updates in the past where I have removed the aethos/ultegra battery (in the seatpost and really easy to get at) and hooked it directly to a shifter to do shifter updates. I have done this for both bikes as the battery for the canyon/DA is in the frame in front of the bb. If I do that for this update, is that going to cause any issues, or am I good? I only ask as the last time I did that I did not have a passkey set and I ended up being locked out of the canyon/DA bike and had to go to a shop to hook it up to their shop setup and unlock it. passkey is now set and I don't think that it'll be an issue, but I don't know if using the same battery from the aethos/ultegra for all shifter updates will cause an issue or not. lmk what you think Mike. Thanks!
Oh man. Wish I could help. I’m sure your systems work great, but this feels like precisely why ppl shy away from the e-shifting world. Bikes shouldn’t need firmware updates! Anyways, sorry I can’t help
Is Shimano discontinuing mechanical 105 or will it continue with both mechanical and electronic versions? I’ve heard it said that the current 105 is equal to the previous Ultegra. Maybe Tiagra will become the new “group set of the people”. 😎
