The idea of the only way to kill Tiamat because her existence is founded on Dragons and that Aogami is a creation born from Susano'o who has slayed Orochi is really magnificent.
For as good feeling as what I call this "True Order" ending is in comparison to the darker more personal "True Chaos", seriously it's cute how this Yoko is allowed to be free and still makes a beeline for the MC, you can see why both ultimately just become another cycle for Mandala as Satan confirms. Order begets Chaos and Chaos begets Order. It's why sadly the only timeline/universe Nahobino manages to unshackle permanently is True Neutral. A universe where Yoko has to remain sealed and Tao essentially offs herself when she creates that world with you. Neither goddess can walk with you, neither can your demon counterpart, or familiars. It's a path Nahobino chooses to walk as the sole and last True God in a universe that doesn't reject Order or Law. It accepts both but an element has been removed to make sure the cycle stops and things remain stable permanently. God may have seperated Life and Knowledge in attempt to have a forever lasting rule, but he saw it wasn't enough when Yoko appeared waiting to guide who would be his replacement. You, the Nahobino who is God's inherit successor chosen by not one but two Guiding Goddesses, took it even further than he did. You eliminated all counterparts to Knowledge. Ensuring this new universe, your universe, is permanent. And while there will be strife it will never be on such a level that Nahobino experienced to make this universe. Because you have removed that factor entirely. And so Nahobino watches on, alone, as the sole divine aspect of this new and free universe.
She's still a slave to the system though, bound to carry out a role forced on her by the Mandala System. It's why she leaves your party no matter what you do, and is especially disappointed if you destroy the Throne or side with Yoko... bc both are antithetical to her very nature. Not the original Tao, but post second resurrection Panagia Tao, who is, ultimately, not the same Tao. Yoko could mostly maintain her ego bc of a combination of her circumstances, the Qadistu's meddling, and her desire for revenge. Ironically, this pushes her into the other extreme of going through with her plan to destroy the world to the exlcusion of considering any other option. In that sense, she's no different from the slave that Panagia Tao is. It's just, instead of the system, she's a slave to revenge. That said, both Tao and Yoko's desires are rooted in the same fundamental beliefs of wanting yo create a world free of suffering and where freedom to have your wishes granted can come true. The issue was that neither side's answer was completely right and we didn't get an option to fully awaken the old Tao into Panagia Tao even if the old Tao's dsiires and will are much stronger here than in the base game. Ultimately, the MC, and game, didn't go far enough into rejecting law and chaos. And the idea of a 'world only for humanity' is just stupid. In that sense, New Law is more neutral than True Neutral is, and New Chaos is just a giant, cosmic hard reset.... Tbh, both endings are better than the old endings but not having a decent New Neutral like what Strange Journey Redux had is a big black mark against Vengeance since the choice to attempt a genuine 3rd option is gone.... Like, I'm potentially Top God here and both Goddesses of Creation want my vote... Why the hell can't I say 'screw it, you're both dumb thinking only your way is right when I'm the guy on the throne... I don't even care if I have to literally beat the sense into them to get them to work with me, kick Lucifer's ass, and hijack the whole system using the Knowledge we'd win to cut off the new world from the Mandala System. Nothing says New Neutral like telling everybody to fuck right off and showing them how a human builds the world from scratch with two Goddesses of Creation! So much wasted potential!
You didn't even let Dazai take a turn, lol. I was curious what skills he possesses. On the side note, it's incredible how they managed to make return of the base Aogami form feel more badass than Tsukuyomi form.
I love this ending, but Dazai is honestly just the worst Law rep in the series. He’s a goofy dork who goes full edgy in both routes to very poor build-up, and then just unceremoniously dies in both of them after betraying his friends. He’s without exaggeration the most one-dimensional of the Law reps in the series, who are varying shades from understandable in their motivations (Yoshio, Hikawa, pre-SJR Zelenin) to downright fascinating and likable (Zayin, post-SJR Zelenin, Jonathan, Amane, Ronaldo). Given he’s of American descent and Atlus has always been eager to portray Law as worse than it actually is for… questionable reasons (Law representing Western values, Chaos representing Eastern values, Neutral being pro-status quo capitalist realism… notice that they prefer Neutral, then Chaos, then Law), I very much wonder what the point of making him so unlikable was. Vengeance’s story is such a drastic improvement over the original it’s not even funny, but Ichiro’s still pretty terrible when every other faction member got a face lift in Vengeance except him.
@@FazPersona Seriously. It’s still really fucking good and a drastic improvement over V, and I think Vengeance did a good job fixing all the other characters… except Dazai. They seriously fucked him up TWICE now. Which makes me question if it’s incompetence or slightly aggravated “look how bad this Westerner is!” posturing from Atlus. Calling him Discount Ryuji for his design and personality is an insult to Ryuji, who’s a ride-or-die homie from the beginning.
@@TheAxeLord47911despire dazai being easily worst character of smt5, all his flaws he can easily be forgive when he enters his edge phase since he easily become the funny character of smt lol
While I can tell that Yoko's concerns were sound, and I find this ending a bit more... palatable, I feel like 'a world where all wishes are fulfilled, and none denied' might be a bit messy. I'm just reminded of one of the plot points of 'Wish': where not all of the wishes are fulfilled to keep the people happy and the kingdom in check. It honestly feels like - no matter the ending you pick - there is a fatal flaw somewhere.
Do you know it’s terrifying about this boss now that I think about it we never seen her true form. We only saw her arms and her head. What the fuck does the rest of her look like we stopped her from fully emerging if we didn’t, what the fuck would’ve come out
Many religions believe when you are in heaven, you won't ever experience pain, suffering, starvation and thirst ever again. The things you can't gain in the mortal world, you will be given by God easily like a collection of consoles, lost great and bad games you can play, becoming a motor or car racer, eat every food ever made in the world, etc. People who are born sick or lose their ability to move their bodies for of whole their life, they can do everything they can't in the world. Everything is given to the residents of heaven for their kindness, selflessness, the struggles to do good things and enduring the evil in the world.
No. Maruki had negatives to it, he puts everyone into a fake reality where everything is perfect but still a fake one, and we're talking about a flawed human with God Complex (think of what he did to Sumire) becoming God. In this one it's a whole new reality so it's not an illusion, Tao says that the new God would guide the people of the new world(so it wouldn't become Bruce The Almighty) and far as we know, Nahobino and Tao aren't half as flawed as Maruki. So people are pretty much in a perfect life now.
It's perfect, a world devoid of sadness and pain, where everyone gets what they desire. And i hate it. I don't even know why, I mean such a happy ending should be an easy choice. Welp it's not like i like the other endings, except maybe regular neutral.
I mean, it kind of makes sense if you count the flow of SMT games. SMT 1 and 4 explore Neutral, SMT 3 explores Chaos. SMT 2 and 5 thus explore Law as its central theme. We’ll likely have a Chaos-centric game when SMT 6 happens in a gajillion years later.
@@TheAxeLord47911 Probably 5-6 depends if half of the dev team will do another ambitious mainline SMT title cause half of it are developers of Etrian Odyssey.
"...will bring peace, where once there was instability... a new world where all wishes are fulfilled, and none denied." So, the protagonist decides to go down Dr. Maruki's path? Good for him.
(copypasting my comment from another channel, but i've also changed some things) I decided to watch the other videos and now i understand better Law ending on this game and it makes me not like it that much it at all, i'm just happy that Law got some bias for once (still, i think that the only reason a Law Ending is getting bias is because it's not related to God/Angels, it's more of a Neutral-Law tbh). Tao mentions that Nahobino will have to guide the people of his new world, so basically in this new world, every dream will be fulfilled and everyone will be happy but Nahobino will probably not fulfill a dream like "i wish that everyone dies", so yeah, this game's Law Ending is just a perfect utopia where everyone is happy forever and there is not much nuance to it, it's pretty much Maruki from P5R but without the "no suffering Matrix" part because this world will still have suffering but if you ask God to do anything to you, he will do it for you and it's not an illusion, it's a whole new reality, this ending is pretty much an ideal reality in general, a world just like our but where God is the Genie in the Lamp that does everything for you if you ask, i think that the only flaw in this alligment it's one where it shares with Maruki, the potential of Nahobino having power climb through his head and become a tyrant. Personally i don't like this, it completely takes away a reason for it to even have multiple endings, i mean, unless you want to be edgy why would you actually side with Yoko here? Maybe just being afraid of God becoming corrupt again? But that's it, if they were going for an ending like this, i'd rather have it as a True Ending in case you had to some sort of insane effort to achieve it like having to beat two superbosses, a lot of quests and making a certain order of choices so that you could earn an ending good as this one, while the other endings would just be normal alligments and Yoko's ending, it would've been way more interesting having Yakumo/Nuwa's True Neutral here without having to do the side quests that you originally had to in order to achieve it and having the OG ending for Tsukuyomi and Dazai but with a cutscene that shows how these worlds would be like and they would've been way better with the new story too. In the end, they polarized it like Apocalypse Good vs Edgy Ending, and SMT completely lost the bleakness or any sort of nuance with its endings(which weren't much, most games had an overwhelmingly better ending and the others being shit), SMT V in general has a way more animey feel than SMT 1-4, i think that it's just less anime than Apocalypse which was so overt that it was terrible (btw i like anime, but what made SMT interesting was its darker side and most of the time having no truly ideal ending even if there was one that was obviously the better one, even in IV that neutral was just the only choice who wasn't bad there is still the part that was 'by choosing neutral, the conflict is not resolved and these are temporary solutions'), now SMT pretty much boils down to Fairy Tale ending vs Edgelord Ending apparently, that's very unfortunate. I still like that at least they are trying to do new things with the alligment system but i really want they make the next game be more bleak and have multiple alligments that are valid choices like DeSu.
You're not alone. It's just SMT IV:A again. It makes me wonder if the modern SMT team are capable of doing nuanced endings without being derivative of the older games
Theres dialogue in the games code that shows cut lines. Taos ending was SUPPOSED to imply an a endless warfare in hopes something will improve but they must have cut that part last minute
ok so there are 240~ demons in SMTVV. Not all of them have conversation, so let's say 220~ demons have conversations. they take about 30 seconds each, and there are 4 to 6 convos. That makes 2 to 3 minutes. If we take 2.5 mins x 220, we get 550 minutes of demon conversations. Which is... 9~ hours! If we then count in Tao, Yoko, Atsuta, Dazai, Aogami, and Tsukuyomi, who have new conversations depending on where you are in the story. I'm sure we're looking at 1-2 more hours. I _want_ to, but I dont think I'd want to touch smt v ever again after making such a long video. Hope you understand :)
Been a long while since i played an SMT game. Does this one have the 3 endings that some older ones had? the Law, Chaos, and Neutral endings? or is it just Law and Chaos endings? The Neutral endings i think were meant to be the True ending to each game that had one.
Yes, but that’s for the old/canon of creation route ( which has 4 endings ) This is the new route added to the rerelease of the game ( Canon of Vengeance ) and there are only 2 endings for this one
Thank you for the upload. Saves me a replay :) Not really happy with how Canon of Vengeance turned out to be a waifu feast. At least Yoko was more interesting than the Marie Sue Tao.
Same level of kino as SJR’s New Law Ending and DeSu1’s Amane Route. Peace and happiness is why I side with Law usually, not because I don’t want to punch God in the face any less - and in fact Law betrayed their faction leader more than any other alignment when He went too far for even them, like SMT II, SMT NINE, SJR and now SMT V: Vengeance. You punch through gods and demons to ensure a utopia for everyone. Contrary to popular opinion, Law can be just as punk as Chaos or Neutral. It’s just cosmic, Moorcockian Law than “law and order” Law, which is why the angels regarded Mikado and Tokyo Millennium as failures. All are equal of sin, including God Himself.
@@CastersvarogThat's the thing, Law only works in SMT when there is no YHVH involved (except DeSu but it's a spin off), the only good Law endings have nothing to do with God/Angels mostly. The issue with that is that most people that side with Law tend to be because they want to side with God(normally because of them being Christian themselves), so a lot of them don't like when Law is essentially more of a "Neutral-Law" Personally, i just like when Law doesn't sucks, but with Vengeance they did the opposite that is making Law too good for its own sake, it's like Atlus doesn't know how to have balance in their alligment system(funny enough, one good thing of the original V is that no ending was better than the other, all of them were valid but with a bad presentation due to the story sucking), i think that a thing they could do for a reasonable Law route where you side with God is just Tao's route from Vengeance but adding the traditional brainwashing and limit of Free Will that Law tends to have + the protagonist becoming God's right hand You get a perfect life but no freedom With Chaos, i think that Yoko's ending would actually be also a great standard for Chaos from now on, destroying the system and trying to start a new universe from Chaos which can result in many different things, yeah, things will not be perfect and they even end up the same or worse but at least, you have freedom to make your own choices on it, while Law would be about sacrificing freedom for the sake of everlasting happiness This comment made me realize how Vengeance actually would've had great endings without the need for Neutral(which i actually think that OG V True Neutral is great too, destroying all deities/demons for the sake of mankind) if they only added this thematic of either choosing Freedom or Utopia without Free Will
@TheAxeLord47911 You side with YHVH in Amane's DeSu route. Very heavily I might add. Most law endings in SMT side with YHVH and his angels, but there are exceptions. Typically they tend to be "new law" endings from updated rereleases. Like SJR, where in said game you betray the entire law faction, not just YHVH.
@@Anthony-rv9sp They fixed it by simply allowing you to fight Lucifer at a higher level, cause in Vanilla, his true form was only at 94, when Shiva was 96 to fight . Vengeance made it so yo can fight Lucifer at level 99, while also keeping his level 94 version
I just realized something: the skill Murakumo is derived from Ama no Murakumo Tsurugi, the cursed blade that Susano pulled from Yamato no Orochi's belly.
@@KaktusLB speak for yourself I wanted to keep the other form they should’ve made an option so you could change between the two forms in new game plus as a reward
I’ve noticed that seemingly every SMT update game has an ending that feels like a “response” to address something about how each base game ends. True Demon was added to nocturne to address how the Demi fiend can’t create his own world, STRANGE JOURNEY reduxs new endings were made to address how extreme the endings in base SJ are. 4 had a neutral bias so they basically made a game entirely about neutral and dark neutral with 4A. And now Vengeance is doing the same thing with its new Law ending
@@PrayingSeraph Persona 5 Royal has your answer there Taos ideal world looks promising... but there are a few problems she and the MC may need to take into Account Thats before considering their still in the Mandala System
Other smt boss: one day you will face the consequences of your action here heretics Tehom: 🙏😑 *Tehom have left the chat* Yoko: WHAT TURNING TAIL FROM A SINGLE NAHOBINO PATHETIC!!
Thank goodness Aogami was revived! I was so sad to see him sacrifice himself to let the protagonist live. I honestly was happy to see Dazai get defeated.
@doctorjames7273 It seems like it was done worse in Vengeance. As ridiculous as his shift is in the original game, at least, you got to see how and why he ended where he did. Here, Mastema corrupts him, and Dazai becomes even more ride-or-die with the Law faction than he was initially.
@@SuperDanMan11100at least his character development was done better than the vanilla one which it was the closest out of anybody else and not even close
That boss being Shekinah-esque threw me back in a nostalgic loop, Omg. I want to see that boss once again. We need more SJ/R rep. Though I was a bit disappointed at how it just pops away like "OK bro, gg 🙏" and poof. I was expecting it to go berserk or something.
"If you seek to best a godly dragon,you'll need a godly dragonslayer.And so......my power is yours." One of the most badass quotes in this game. In addition,from my point of view,this is one of the few times that a Law Ending,though not completely flawless and might still has its problems,actually looks decent enough. I also think that in those Law Endings that are more decent,they mostly involve the Law Representatives carry out their visions without having too much influences from the forces of Monotheistic faiths. I mean,in DSJ/SJR, Zelenin also got to create a more decent Law Ending than the one from base SJ after listening to Alex's statements,and decided to create her own ideal world rather than fully obeying the will of angels.
One problem with Zelenin's new SJR ending is that she makes enemies of both law and chaos factions, and now has a neutered humanity to protect. Her world will not have the protection of the Angelic Host, and will likely fall to outside invasion, be it from forces of chaos or the angels themselves.
I don't think it's farfetched to say that somehow, in both endings, some version of Yoko and the Nahobino end up together - obviously, in this version, Tao and the Nahobino are busy being the top Gods of their new world and are less likely to intervene in person, but it would not shock me to learn that in a world where all wishes are granted the mortal versions of him and Yoko had similar wishes lol
I'm a bit confused. Maybe because I'm just seeing the ending rn with no context But did the Nahobino take the throne? We see him in class, so maybe this is like the secret ending? Then there's Tao with glowing blue eyes, so did she take the throne instead? I'm probably missing context since I skipped to see the ending
Tao says in the Temple of Eternity that the God of this new world will guide the people in it, he essentially is a genie that fullfils the wishes of everyone that comes to him(so, i really doubt that the new god being Tao or Nahobino would accept dreams like "i want everyone to die" for example). It's vague if Nahobino or Tao are God now, probably it's Tao.
Likely Tao is Nahobino's Metatron as in her messenger, because, like in the previous endings, you observe as an external party and the MC present with others is another you you created.
Without any spoiler, did lucifer has other stronger form or phase in other route? Tehom fight is much more fun since she has a good gimmic, while lucifer didn't. He didn't even have a good battle theme. With almighty build like yours, he's basically a joke and is one of the lamest final boss i have ever fought.
@@FazPersona that is a shame because they have a opportunity for a new Neutral path ending in this new storyline consider they added more side content to get to know the other characters more.
@@Rafa_The_Omega yeah I agree both are vague, do not actually break the cycle they want to break (well maybe chaos if the throne is gone) and they fail to either understand humanity's complexity and contradiction. Chaos must be tempered by order and order has to be soften by chaos or else it's just the same thing but in a different flavor
I actually prefer the original Law ending tbh. Not the best Law ending in the franchise by any means, but it was at least more open to interpretation than this one.
Finally finished the game and got the law ending. first thing is first.... THEY NERFED THE LUCIFER FIGHT!! Other than that great ending and Tehom is one of my favourite bosses in mainline!! Edit: wait I learned you can still fight the original Lucifer 3 phase fight by beating Shiva before and they actually made him level 99 this time! Is this true??
I know there's only two new endings, but has anyone figured out how the aligntment point system works? What happens if you choose in a way that you end up with a "neutral" score, does it default to one of the endings?
I think I cut out the part where it says that you unlock abdiel, sorry. But she was in my compendium able to be fused while I was recording this After the after credits cutscene, I unlocked mastema and nuwa for fusion
You can get Nuwa before reaching the final dungeon. Once you talk to Yakumo in the final area he goes back to Tokyo. Talk to some of the bethel researchers and they'll give you info on him. Meet up with him twice in Tokyo and you'll unlock Nuwa for fusion.
45:46 - *WHAT THE FUCK IS THAT THING!?!* It's like someone put Merkabah and Shekinah in a blender and the slop that came out was hand sculpted by Lahmu! You don't even kill it properly, it just fuses together and goes back to whatever fucked up dimension it came from. It can't possibly hail from Da'at/Expanse because we're already in it! Where the hell did this thing even come from?
It seems, smt too like persona, reached his limit, in philosophy view, there nothing new, where new order?, its repeat everything in end, and new world , not here...its like humans all wants , but not me,I'm disappointed this ended scenario, those ones , who created game, so small fantasy have, its interesting game, and no more, scenario very soft, in end game, I want see some new world, different realm, but, it not be here...😔
Nope. Endings are as follows: CoC's 4 endings from Vanilla CoV's Law and Chaos endings (side with either Law Heroine [Tao] or Chaos Heroine [Yoko]) The trophy that is after V!Chaos ending is for Godborn mode (level cap is 150, all enemies are set to level 150). It SOUNDS like a new Neutral ending from the trophy description, but it's just a new mode (you can do Godborn in Safety if you wanted to and then go for any of the 6 endings so you can multitask trophies).
In the Temple of Eternity she says that the new God will guide the people of the new world, Nahobino/Tao will probably be like a genie in the lamp that you call to make your wishes come true, they would probably deny something that is bad. So this is pretty much a world where all your problems are solved by God and you can live a happy life without any trouble as long God fulfils everything you want and you also have free will So yeah, that's just a perfect utopia without flaws.
@@renren47618 i know an ending like that... Saw it on fgo ... Its not an utopia thought... Its a place where nothing can grow... Since god can just grant their wishes No improvement,no creativity just lazyness... And boredoom I know its say only good people wish can come true but there will always exist a flaw...
I fail to see the supposed “improvements”, I just see the typical flanderized asset rehashed version atlus puts to scam persona fanboys. Everything that was great about the original is absent here, and in its place is just another spineless “fan feedback” slop, with flanderized characters so the persona fans say it is good now. The entire nahobino concept thrown into the trash, any difficult decision (like sahori’s arc) now gone because people don’t want to feel any negative outcome, gone the political implication about Globalist ideas vs nationalism, or the inescapable fate of existence, how knowledge is supposed to be used with morals for the sake of creation and life itself, no more arcs taken directly from actual religious literature like Paradise Lost… all gone, and for what? For apocalypse redux again? I know these devs can do better, Yoh Hazuki always shows what he is capable when “fan expectations” are out of the picture, Atlus is definitely at its best when they actually have confidence in what THEY make not what the “fans” want.
It took a couple years but I see we’ve finally reached the point where people are now genuinely defending base smt5 lmao. At least in this game you can avoid on the new content unlike strange Journey redux so there’s that I think vengeance already takes too much from base 5 as is so I dunno it not copying 5s same themes exactly doesn’t bother me
@@dc7981 I have always been a V defender, always found fascinating how it took 1 and nocturne and flipped the table to show the other side of the coin. It was the natural evolution of the same concepts but with a new post lost decade perspective (and new, younger staff), and nice sprinkles from actual religious texts (and even devil survivor ideas thanks to Hazuki). Which I found refreshing after apocalypse and redux, so losing that in favor of… very weak comparative mythology with a reddit waifu is… yeah… But you’re right, as abismal as this got, I at least still don’t hate any og character lol so I guess I would put it above those other 2.
