Apparently, when this scene was shot, Mira Furlan was having a very hard time controlling her emotions, given the obvious parallels to what she left behind in Yugoslavia. She wasn't supposed to cry, but she couldn't help it reacting to Andras' performance, who himself broke down after he got out of shot. They didn't retake it, as the emotional wallop that was there sold the scene that much better. Good thing they did, its one of the best scenes in the series.
@@ClockworkOuroborous It wont. I can only see them changing it, Adding removing drama and adding conflict, removing character development in favor of action, over campifying the humor, and given the current state of Hollywood, probably changing races/genders unnecessarily. I can only see them ruining it.
@@MCDrB-wq8ed That was the fault of the 2007 Writer's Strike. It put everyone who participated on the Hollywood Blacklist permanently, meaning we're never going to get that quality ever again.
@@Slitheringpeanut I don't know, the rumours doung the rounds at the minute is that companies are going to use this strike to ged rid of all of the activist writers so maybe the blacklisted ones might make a comeback.
@@MCDrB-wq8ed No, they NEVER get off the Blacklist. Because they're UNCONTROLABLE! They had the AUDACITY to rise up against their Masters. And THAT is unforgivable. They're not coming back. It's been almost 15 years, they're still on the List.
@@MCDrB-wq8ed @IRMentat Yep. Just goes to show what you can do with good writing and good acting. You don't need fancy cgi or complicated cinematography. You can have two actors simply sitting face to face in a room and just talking and it can be riveting and powerful. B5 has many scenes like that.
It is scenes like this that made Babylon 5 one of the best science fiction programs ever made! None of the characters were lily white and completely innocent. Every one of them had foils and character flaws. Babylon 5 characters consistently demonstrated real-life struggles with real-lifelike issues in their growth.
The series also had aliens interacting with aliens without humans or humanity being the focus of the conversation. It was a show that dared to have aliens and alien matters take the focus without needing a human character grounding it. A scene like this, the matters are entirely alien, but we have developed a relationship to the characters and their races that allow us to care for them despite their alien nature.
Indeed and it were all real battles/struggles, not mere personal squabbles! That's what ruins shows like Battlestar Galactica and Stargate Universe for me! Too much pointless infighting! Seriously, B5 is the king when it comes to showing politics, intrigues etc.!
More than that, the flaws were recognized as flaws and the story arcs dealt with dealing with the consequences of those flaws. Londo's hubris and desire "for the old days" saw the galaxy in flames. G'Kar's need for vengeance say his people "bombed into the stone age". Garibaldi's issues, admittedly turned up to 11 by PsiCorps, nearly turned Earth into a permanent Nazi paradise with the Corps being the SS and Gestapo all rolled into one. But in every case, the Characters had to face what they had done and try to find a way forward, all while still being flawed. It was amazing story writing the like of which will not come again.
It has been said before in other places, but I'll repeat it here. The computer graphics were barely passable and the sets were cheap. But the script for the show and the emotion brought to life by these actors is virtually unmatched.
The CGI in Babylon 5 is actually very good. However, transition issues from 4:3 to 16:9, transferring from PAL VHS to NTSC DVD instead of using master negatives, and generally bungling it even more with bad upscaling and cropping, it all severely tarnished the quality of the transfer to DVD. When it aired on TV the show looked stunning, as it was years ahead of any other show when it came to special effects.
First of all this is not the best copy I have seen on youtube. Second this was produced in the early 90's and on a low budget as for CGI and computers in the 90's well I was using a 28.8 k modem with my intel 386 in the 90's so ya.
From what I've read Babylon 5 had a $900,000 budget per episode, Deep Space Nine average was an average of $3,500,000 per episode. I think they did well with the resources they had. www.imdb.com/list/ls056710448/?sort=list_order,asc&st_dt=&mode=detail&page=1
For when the show originally aired, the graphics were *mindblowing* for a tv series. The fact that they were created using Amiga computers was what really got me excited back then. www.generationamiga.com/2020/08/30/how-24-commodore-amiga-2000s-created-babylon-5/
B5 seems to be the cursed production. Nearlyhalf of the main cast have died since it finished its run. Andreas Katsulas (G'Kar), Mira Furlan (Delenn), Jerry Doyle (Garibaldi), Michael O'Hare (Sinclair), Richard Biggs (Franklin), Jeff Conaway (Zack Allan), Steven Furst (Vir) have all passed beyond the veil. RIP.
@@MCDrB-wq8ed There is an old Irish proverb that goes (I'm pulling this from memory), "if you are still alive, then you still have more to do." I see it as they lived long enough to finish what they were to do. Though I'm just another face among billions of others, I have been dead once (sudden cardiac arrest 11 years ago on Friday, 13 Jan 2012), though I view it as the universe wasn't done with me yet and I still have more to do. Since then I have written 10 books and am working on #11, most are connected in an epic story arc. I figure this is my Life's Work -- everything up to it was just preparation for it. Maybe it was the same for those of the cast of Babylon 5 -- this show was the completion of their Life's Work. Their performance within the story was their best as well as the perfect performance for the story of Babylon 5. "Cursed"? No..."Perfection"...yes, and without a doubt their performance in the roles they played will never be equaled or surpassed. They were "in the right place, at the right time, for the right reason." "All the world's a stage, and all the men and women merely players. They have their exits and their entrances; and one man in his time plays many parts."
I have shed so many tears for the Narn over the years knowing full well its just a story but the acting depicting thier pain and suffering is just so realistic.
After declaring that he would have killed her, had he known, to then walk over and sit back down with De'Lenn was a critical, powerful moment for G'kar. Such an amazing scene.
In that moment when G'Kar utters the words "Perhaps... but not today", it instantly made me think of the scene toward the end of season 5 when he says to Mollari: "Understand that I can never forgive your people for what they did to my world, my people can never forgive your people, but I forgive you." Delenn may have been on the side of light and Mollari controlled by darkness that he never truly understood, but each in their own way caused, or by omission of action, allowed to be caused irreparable and profound damage to the Narn. There is so much terrible beauty in this show. All these many years later, it is still so stirring.
Even to this day I still shed tears in these scenes as well. The feeling of "betrayal" and "pain" is so realistically represented that's its almost too real. The acting and script truly was legendary.
This is why a reboot would never work. It was of its time with perfect casting, prefect writing and perfect direction (ok the SF doesn't hold up but we can't have evertthing). Nobody could replace them, especially the writers. If Hollywood has shown us over the last few years it is that the modern crop of writers cannot hold a candle to what has gone before.
@@MCDrB-wq8ed except the reboot is done by most of the original team. However.. its finding the actors that will be the hardest part. They have MASSIVE shoes to fill
@@Darqshadow Have you SEEN how woke JMS is these days? Even though he is behind it it will be a shit show. Couple this with trying to replace actors like Katsulas, Jurasik, Furlan, Doyle, Biggs and even Furst and you have a massive failure waiting to happen. I'm sorry but given modern Hollywoods ability to screw anything up it touches means I will give any reboot a hard pass.
"Perhaps...But not today" - That's pure acting talent, you can see the ambiguity in G'Kars expression, he wants to embrace his enlightened side and "forgive and forget" but the pain and anguish of his own people condemned to die because of information kept from him is too overwhelming to forgive yet, Andreas looks as if hes literally about to cry. That's amazing acting.
@@trinitymplayers The follow up was he joined and fought with them. He KNEW in his head that her decision was correct. That doesn't mean he had to like it. Just the simple fact that he didn't kill her immediately (Or at least attempt to) shows his answer.
Babylon 5 was and still is the best science fiction series ever. The acting was beyond compare and even though it is no longer made I still and always will have great love for it.
G'Kar might have the best story arc in all of science fiction TV history. His growth as a character is only overshadowed by the superior acting skills of the late, great Andreas Katsulas!
I think what made it all the more hard hitting was the relationship he had with Londo. It went from confrontational to pure hatred to mutual respect and admiration. The scene where they miss a lift because they are arguing is funny. However the scene in the episode Convictions where they get stuck in the lift really exemplifies their relationship. It is by turns funny, emotional and horriying.
@@MCDrB-wq8ed I think that is truly key. It wasn't that G'Kar's story arc was that powerful, although it was exceptionally good, it was the way his arc and Mollari's are were so perfectly fit. The intertwining of two such powerful arcs made the combined stories one of the best ever. They were more than the sum of their parts.
While I love Adnreas Katsulas' acting, I actually think only about Mira Furlan in this scene, she came to USA from a war torn country, and in every scene with the war in, I think you can actually see the affects of that war in her acting, I feel sorry for the things she went through, but grateful because of the way she acts.
Today that kind of writing is not possible with current woke hollywood - if this show was made today - we would get Startrek pickard level of garbage... and that is sad. And keep in mind one or two years ago - at the time of your comment - things were even worse - abominations like batwoman was made and such.
Today they would make obligatory lgbt, race diversity and other the main plot. Forget order&chaos, change of heart, price of freedom and everything we love so much about this show.
G'kar came in arrogant and haughty only to have life's circumstances lay him low. Then he starts the hero's quest to rediscover himself, and establish what Narn could be, without him being the center of it. This is opposite of Lando's arc, who starts from a low position, from there he rises to the highest position, only to become a puppet and in the end needed G'kar's help to free himself.
we need to revisit this belief. We sent Ukraine into war with a more powerful foe, and according to what we were told, they are dying for us. Even if we are right , even if Ukraine was right to do this. IS the sacrifice worth it.
I'd say the interactions between G'Kar and Londo were better. It ran the etnire spectrum from confrontational to emotional to comedic to bromance to pure hatred to utter respect. Thier relationship is, for me, the best in TV history. This is why a reboot would never work. Nobody could ever replicate the chemistry Londo and G'Kar had.
What makes B5 such an awesome show, even today, is the fact that a scene as deep as this one is just one of dozens of such scenes. The combination of the excellent writing and the consummate acting make for some of the best TV ever produced.
Damn, what a scene. This goes beyond pain for both of them into a void of utter despair about what the Minbari did (or didn't). No wonder for me this was my favourite series of all time for years. It may not have had the budget of the Star Trek's, but what an arc, and what character development.
This scene, this series stands as a testament to the actors and actresses who have ‘gone beyond the rim’ and to those still with us. Delenn carried a heavy burden, and it broke her to keep it from one she regards a friend or ally. G’Kars restraint and understanding are admirable as is his heartache relatable.
One of the great B5 scenes that made me fall in love with this show. So much more sophisticated, the chaos of war. And part of G'Kar's evolution in the face of a sacrifice that was made of his people. What a great series, incredibly underrated.
Sadly, I have long since lost the convention program I asked him to sign, as I didn't have anything else. I still have my Season 1 box set though, that Peter Jurasik did sign.
I tend to think that this whole series was VERY overlooked in it's time. And I honestly believe that the actors were the best cast that ever could have been assembles.
It wasnt that big on people's radars, but some watched it back then. Enough to get it to 5 seasons. I still remember fondly watching each episode, barely able to wait for the next one. And "Sleeping in the Light" still moves me to tears. It was brilliant and I am richer for having seen it.
i watched the first episode and thougt it to be too weird. Only later i think i saw the coming of shadows and i was intriqued. But i started liking the series from season 2. And after a few rewatches i now also like season 1. My wife liked it from season 1 so i was probably to much a trekkie at those early days lol
G'Kar had such power in his words. Who would have expected these deep emotional moments from the Season 1 version of his character? He soars with passion and portrays the depths of sorrow. RIP Andreas Katsulas, and thanks to JMS and his writers for such amazing dialogue.
G'kar was a good charakter started as a sort of bad guy but ended as the best charakter in the entire series and this iss one of the best scenes to describe how much he had changed but he would not be so great without Londo as a sparring partner
+Josh Sweetvale (Bonkers) Their was that amazing between time with Londo and G'Kar being good friends, I felt so sorry for Londo, he was a good guy trapped in a bad place.
+Joshua Sweetvale Londo didn't take the job on B5 serious because he found out that no one else want the job. The Human station was regarded as a joke to the Court, so they sent their lowest Ranking Member there. Because their High Court though his House was a joke.
I don't think g'kar was a bad guy, just immature. His whole race was a fighting race. They lashed out at everyone because of years of oppression and slavery. He grew with this show. He turned into an enlightened person and tried to spread his enlightenment to his fellow Narn with the book of G'Kar. I am sorry he had to leave because the prophet was bigger than the message. In leaving the station he could allow the Narn come to their own enlightenment using his book for guidance.
Interesting how a post from 2012 has suddenly appeared in my "suggested" list. Not that I'm complaining, I've watch B5 from start to finish several times. IMHO it is the best SF series EVER made. The actors, character development and the stories all combine in a tour de force. Each time I watch I shed a tear in memory of the actors from this show who have "passed beyond"
The destruction of Coventry in WWII, Churchill had cracked Engyma, and knew the Germans were going to bomb that city. He could have evacuated the city before hand, but if Germany had detected that, they would have realized their code was broken, and that was an advantage Churchill couldn't risk at that time. Life can be cruel, in order to win the game you may have to sacrifice some pieces to make the gambit.
"As much as I hate to admit it, if we're going to win this one, some of us might have to lose it."--J. Renner as Hawkeye, "Captain America: Civil War."
The character of G'Kar could have so easily been a cardboard cutout of a stock villain except for the show's brilliant writing and in my mind the under appreciated work of Andreas Katsulas.
Kosh changed G'Kar's path, his life, by choosing to intervene as he did. It was surprising - recall that he had once told Sinclair that both the Narn and the Centauri were dying races who should be "allowed to pass". Perhaps his time on the station changed him, or perhaps Kosh just saw some potential in G'Kar.
If the Narn follow what's written in the Book of G'kar then the Narn may evolve into something greater. Just like how the Centauri need more Emperors like Vir to become better.
A great thing in B5 was character growth. G'Kar in the pilot was a warrior with dreams of conquest. He went to Delenn and asked if she could imagine what the Narn and Mimbari could do if they acted together. Here he is understanding the big picture and the burden that others have carried, worrying about entire worlds while he was obsessed with only his own. Compare this to his answer to Mr Morden, he didn't care about the rest, so long as his homeworld was safe.
2 years late to the party but anyway... One of b5s greatest strengths was that the story and character growth was consistent. One thing i only learned recently was that the writer actually outlined the entire series from the start and wandered around set with a book of several hundred pages of notes. When actors didnt know why they were doing some things theyd often get told that it was because they were setting up for things several seasons later.
@@misterturkturkle Agreed. We're just in the process of rewatching it. G'Kar has just been captured by the Centari. Bloodied, beaten and in chains his first words to Cartagia were "Do you happen to know where Mr Garibaldi is?" The G'Kar of the pilot would never have endangered himself for another. Concerning the set ups. It was a great and intriguing surprise to see an older Sinclair and hear Delenn's voice at the end of "Babylon Squared".
No one can tell me that the lack of character in shows today is not leading to our societal downfall. This scene had more heart and development in a few minutes than entire seasons of shows today. I miss B5.
The problem with such great acting is that you just can't do a remake of the show, not that I'm usually in favour of them anyway. The acting in the original Battlestar Galactica was 70s ropeyness at its best/worst, so that opened up the way for a remake. But who'd fit into Andreas' very big shoes? He made the role his own.
@@JnEricsonx No...much would be lost simply be taking that limitation away. The producers and whatnot would be emboldened to leave much of what makes B5 so good and instead settle for titillation and ultraviolence. That's why I was never all that interested in Game of Thrones. There's nothing revolutionary there, just different flavors of porn(sexual and violence) mixed with misery and despair. No light, no hope. Whereas with B5, you could always just make out the light at the end of the tunnel, even if you knew that there was a writing sewer of misery and death to be trodden through first, there was hope. This is something that has been lost in modern storytelling. Everything is violence, politics or sex(frequently all of them) and none of it has a shred of hope. Hope for a better future is as important to life as breathing. We need it.
@@lorzon I agree that GoT's appeal was in its "R Rated"-ness for lack of a better phrase. That is why it completely fell apart when it didn't have source material.
This show...By FAR, was lightyears ahead of its time, limited by only the CGI/Graphics of the time. Such profound and deep story writing. Of the likes that we do not really see at all, today.
"But not today." Not delivered with bitterness or scorn. In fact it seemed hopeful and sad. She's still his dear friend and he knows he WILL forgive her. He just can't right now. And she understands. She's not ready to forgive herself either.
I wish people would understand that that was precisely the dilemma President Harry S Truman faced in 1945, between a ruthless decision and an even bloodier cowardly one. Historical revision does not consider that as CinC Truman's prime moral duty was to make the decision that spared US troops first & foremost. The numbers had been calculated; the predictions were stark and and unforgiving, so 250,000 citizens of Hiroshima & Nagasaki became the sacrificial victims, to spare a million.
It never occurred to me before, but as Delenn and the Grey Council were aware even before Londo what he was getting himself and his people, in a way she wronged him as well. Londo I'm sure would have backed away the moment he realized who he was working with, and his own spiritual downfall might not have happened. It's one of those what if scenarios, but I thought it was worth mentioning. If you ask me, that hug she gave Londo at their final parting, was the least she could have done for him.
In many ways you're right...and wrong. Londo still had made his choices and I doubt if he ever knew what those Shadow vessels were...he still wouldn't have spoken when his people used Mass Drivers. He sealed his date after the Narn Homeworld
@@geoffwilliams4478 Really, if you think about of it, many of the characters were responsible for billions of deaths everywhere == including Delenn, with her blind decision to wipe out the human race.
I own the DVD's. After watching this, I'm going to start with season 1 episode 1. The actors/ actresses in this series were awesome. I started watching it because I saw Billy Mummy's name in the credits one day, then I discovered a lot of my favorite actors were in the show, I was hooked.
Jimmy, your begin on the ride of your life, my man. I am on my thrird DVD set now, because I ruined the previous two by watching them too often and lending them to others to expand the fan base of the show - the best kept secret in all of Sci-Fi. Keep the tissues at hand because this will be a prime neccesity when watching.
This was such an amazing show. It was so much more than just sci-fi and it was so ahead of its time. I wonder if there will ever be another show like it. Not too mention the amazing acting is scenes like this.
@Professeur Râleur It might take decades until we get rid of this current insanity that's ruining all of the entertainment industry. But even decades might not be enough.
Just rewatched this episode last night. Such an emotional scene - I couldn't get through it without my eyes watering up. Very well acted by both of them.
I've always loved this scene, but now learning the profound effect it had on the two because of the traumatic things Mira Furlan had to endure while leaving her home and county. Every cast member in this show was amazing, and that doesn't happen very often. I always feel allowful when I remember that most of the cast has passed away. It's a terrible feeling when as a child/preteen you come to love certain TV shows, movies, and the actors who played the characters, but somewhere in your brain your mind subconsciously freezes the person as they are, so that as you get into your 20s and 30s whenever you happen to see one of the actors it surprises you every time because in your mind they were supposed to stay young forever. For me, it's Bill Murray, Denzel Washington, Curt Russell, Sigourney Weaver, and Morgan Freeman.
It's a damn shame that Andreas Katsulas is no longer alive because I would've loved to have met at scifi conference especially if Peter Jurasic was there as they made a great double act.
I feel like they also knew the Narn were strong enough to survive it. Had it been any other race, they wouldn't have made it out. This has to be one of the top 10 most powerful scenes of B5.
The last line in this scene was brilliantly delivered. "Perhaps, but not today". Andreas was truly a gem. For those worried about any re-boot prospects. I would also be concerned. Could they even come close to matching the performances of Mira Furlan, Adreas Katsulas, Peter Jurasik, Jerry Doyle, Jason Cole, and Tim Choate? I can't imagine how.
watching this again, so absorbed in the amazing performances...the Narn, were dumped on by everyone..suffered and endured so much in this show...i am not sure if any of the other races could have endured as well in the same circumstances
Actually, I don`t think G`Kar would have succeeded in killing Delenn even if he had inclined to do so. Remember how she served him his butt in the pilot film The Gathering when he tried to blackmail her?
What a wicked gut punch. There is another possibility here. Delenn could have trusted G'Kar with the plan. But then it would have been G'Kar who held back this information from his people while the Centauri were attacking them. The Narn people would be as disgusted with him for saving them, as he is now disgusted with Delenn. No real way to make this right.
It's amazing to me how many lessons I've learnt from my TV-based upbringing of the 80's & 90's.. this series & (to a much lesser extent), Battlestar Galactica & Andromeda can be seen in the current light as tales as allegorys of climate change
O the irony! Mira Furlan could not have been cast in a show more relevant to the ethnic strife that was ripping apart her real-world homeland. In character, she could speak to B5's central themes with all the empathy of an actor who had endured both anti-Semitism and misogyny.
During a recent cast reunion she recounted that during an early convention she was speaking about how she lost her family and everything she knew when she had to leave her home and come here, and someone said to her "Welcome to your new family."
to learn that you have been lied to (or at least the full truth kept from you!) and it meant the destruction of your whole world.... this would obviously be a huge shock .... only G'Kar could be wise enough to at least understand this and not react violently ... in the present!
