Shocking Seiko LOW Accuracy + Alternatives 

And since when is $6800 Submariner pricing? Not even at retail.

Seikos lack of accuracy is what kept me away from adding one to my collection. At $1k & more, they should provide better accuracy specs, especially since Seiko can do it. Seikos fan base will defend that flaw at any cost, giving Seiko no reason to change that anytime soon. Thanks for covering that topic.

This is a great reason to get into vintage Seiko; it's what I did! Either the golden-era craftsmanship of vintage Seiko is enough to get you to great accuracy, or you blame the age for the inaccuracies. It's a win/win!

As a former Seikoholic, Seiko has become garbage. In the last year I purchased a SBDC077 diver (misaligned chapter ring of course) and a SBDC093 Alpinist with -6 min a day. Replaced it 3 time and that 6R35 movement always had issues. Lesson learned, hello Switzerland!

This is an interesting topic. I own a Seiko mini turtle with the 4r35 movement that runs at +2 sec a day and a new SPB197J1, the Alpinist European edition with the 6r35 movement, that runs at +20 sec a day. For sure when you spend more money at around 1k you expect a better accuracy than -15 +25...

My SKX007 is about as accurate as a sundial, but I still love it. Some watches have personality sufficient that we can forgive them small inadequacies like poor timekeeping! 😄

Seiko is like Toyota, not the highest horsepower, but reliable as hell.

I was a Seiko fanboy for a long time. But I got tired of the quality control issues and poor time keeping. I sold most, kept the most accurate and had one movement replaced. No more Seiko for me.

The newer Powermatic 80 movement from Swatch are quite accurate and reliable. They use them from Certina to RADO and they have been extremely accurate in my experience from owning many of them.

I have a few Seiko watches, some off by a few seconds a day and some by ten or so. I’m not timing rocket launches for NASA so I don’t need the watches to be spot on. I buy Seiko for their designs and overall reliability and value.

This reminds me of a problem I have with many watch reviewers on RU-vid. They hardly ever say what the observed accuracy is of the watches they have in the possession. I would think they would do so. Thank you for your content John P!!

I bought a 10 year old SKX and brought it to my local watchmaker. He said the watch is running perfectly, but I have him $50 to regulate it and lubricate whatever he thinks it's necessary. The watch now runs about +2spd, and it's just so charming.

I've never had any major issues with any of mine, and their accuracy is much better than spec. When it comes to servicing, on most of the low to mid tier models, it's just cheaper to replace the movement than to have it taken apart. However, if you're so inclined, you can modify them to your liking. There's a huge community for that.

The accuracy pendulum swung wide for me: last year I got a Hamilton Khaki Field Automatic that gets about +2 seconds per day. This year I got a Seiko Alpinist SPB155J that loses about 12 seconds per day. I know I won't be late for any appointments from wearing the Seiko, but for over $700, they should regulate their watches. My local watchaker said it's not possible to correct a watch by a mere 12 seconds so I either sell it or live with it. "The other day, a fellow came up to me and said: "Hey buddy, do you have the correct time?" I said: "Sorry, my watch is a Seiko!" (Ba-dum, bum!) Ahhh, I get no respect....

I personally love the Seiko designs. I wish they would upgrade their specs, but my guess is most of their watches are made by robots or machines, and shipped without much human adjustment in order to keep prices relatively low. So basically, it's like an accuracy crapshoot when you buy one of their watches. The real problem comes in when you need help with one of their watches. One option is to send it in under guarantee. I've hear and read so many bad things about their NJ service center that this is just not something I could do. Most watch repair places will say to send it in and won't fix it. Or they'll say that parts are hard to get or tell you the accuracy will never be great, and just live with it etc. Almost all roads lead back to NJ, which sucks. From what I can gather, the main issue is sourcing parts. Seiko seems to have a stranglehold on their parts.

It's really hard to argue with the points raised. I suppose we still buy these watches because of the designs, availability and the brand history and turn a blind eye to these issues....

Yeah, yeah, the bezels dont always line up either......someone get this man a Vostock stat!

John- go vintage Seiko since you are the vintage guy. A 6139, 6138, or 701x Speedtimer chronograph is a great addition. You just need to be sure you are buying an original one. I have over 30, they are my vintage watch focus.

top grade ETA 2824 time keeping is stated as +/- 15 seconds per day, thats sat in swiss watches retailing over 2k usd, tudor black bay 36 for example, sw200 is pretty similar tbh. i get what you're saying john, but when you're looking at $1000 swiss watches, there are not that many with cosc movements outside of swatch group.

The discrepancy of accuracy shown online is to save them from a possible liability from damaged movements in transport, my Samurai is +2s a day, Turttle Manta Ray - 1 a day, 5kx is +5 a day and are in part as accurate as my Rolex Day Date / Explorer II, Zenith El premero and Omega Seamaster 300

Hmmm. It’s well known however that these are safe values being provided. On average they keep good time in my experience. As an example, I have among others an Orient ray raven as work horse. It’s already within + / - 10 sec per day. And it’s a basic entry level within the Seiko group. All other Seikos all well below that.

I own an SKX007, an SNK809, an SRPE93, and an SRPD53. All of them get me through a day of work just fine. I'm a little OCD so I end up setting the hackable ones to my Multiband 6 solar G-Shock, and I do the same to all my watches every few days. The accuracy really doesn't bother me, as all have functioned very well. Thanks for the video, you guys do a great job!

The stated accuracy for Seiko movements varies depending on the caliber family. The 4Rxx movements are the same as the NHxx movements sold by Seiko to other watch companies. The 8Lxx movements are variants of movements used in some Grand Seiko watches. 4Rxx (21,600 vph): -35/+45 spd 6Rxx (21,600 vph): -15/+25 spd 6Lxx (28,800 vph): -10/+15 spd 8Lxx (28,800 vph): -10/+15 spd You will see similar accuracy ratings for Citizen (Miyota) movements. 8xxx (21,600 vph): -20/+40 spd 9xxx (28,800 vph): Typically -10/+20 spd or -10/+30 spd You can compare this to the Swiss-made Selita SW200-1 (28,800 vph), which comes in four grades. Standard: +/-30 spd Special: +/-20 spd Premium: +/-15 spd COSC: -4/+6 spd My takeaways from this are 1) higher beat rate is fundamental to higher accuracy, and 2) Seiko and Citizen don't put much effort into regulating their watch movements at the factory. All of the above data is from the Caliber Corner website.

I'd be really happy if I could get a 6R35 based Alpinist that meets its accuracy spec. First one was minus 30 to minus 50 s per day, depending on position. I sent it back. Now the replacement from Seiko is plus 30 to plus 70 s per day, depending on position. Really disappointing for a $600 watch.

The worst watch I ever owned was a Seiko 5 that I bought as my first “expensive” watch after I left University in 2001. It was around £100 in the UK. It used to gain 5 minutes per week and I got it repaired TWICE within the 12-month warranty. Then it just kept gaining the same 5 minutes per week after that too. I eventually just threw it away. I vowed NEVER to buy a Seiko again. I don’t care if it is Grand Seiko or not. If a $20 Casio can keep accurate time, then a watch that costs 5 times as much should have a decent timekeeping standard.

Great video, anyone who is considering buying a seiko should know about their accuracy specially considering all the attention they get, the time keeping is simply not there, my baby marine master typically deviates around 1-2 minutes each week which is very annoying for long term use

If "Grand" isn't in front of it, I'm not interested. Seikos made sense at $300. At 1k, Swatch group comparable brands blow them out of the water. Lume is all they're good for at this point. Fight me! lol

Swiss is still king of time keeping. My 400.00 Tissot Sea Star keeps -1 sec a day for a year now, Lume sucks though and rubber band is too narrow for serious diver use.

The 2019 Rolex GMT batman and pepsi wouldn't of passed Cosc cert, Jodie of just one more watch tested both, and said the homage was a better watch, better time keeping, strap, and a bezel that actually lined up.

I find it hilarious that someone has an issue with the accuracy of Seiko watches, when most of the watches in the same price category are usually running an SW200, without COSC certification, and so are in almost the exact same standards of accuracy. Yes, you can get a Chronometer for $1000+, but you won’t get the design of a Seiko. If you want a Chronometer, buy one. If you want a Seiko, buy one. Who cares. If you are worried about the accuracy of a watch, then frankly you shouldn’t really be buying an automatic in the first place. That is not why most people do. I have several automatics, some that are COSC, and some that are not. I still don’t buy them to be exactly precise. If I really need that, I would wear a quartz watch or a spring drive. Now I do agree that the top end of the Seiko line over $2000-$3000 should at least offer a Chronometer movement as well. I really does suck that they do not offer something with a Chronometer or similar certification in their line at some point.

People spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on vintage watches that keep horrible time. I don't think +25 /-15 for a well built sub $1000 watch is that bad

Great points. Accuracy will really matter to the people that have one watch, especially if you're paying for the high end side of Seiko. Personally, I have multiple watches that I swap around every other day and I tend to stay in the affordable range and vintage category so I have very lax standards for accuracy to a certain extent. If i were to move up to the pricier Seikos, I would have higher standards. Thanks for sharing ~$1000 affordable alternatives!

I own that Christopher Ward Cranwell and it did come with the COSC cert.. very nice build quality. Easily hangs with Oris or Sinn...

Once I got a taste of COSC/METAS accuracy, I really can't stand excessive gain or any loss in time. Luckily for my Seikos over the years, if they don't come accurate, it is easy to regulate it yourself and very cheap to get it done by a watchmaker close by. From my dozens I've had pass through over the years, I don't think I ever saw anything over +/- 10 out of the box new or used.

GS aside, and the few Seiko branded pieces that use movements that were developed for GS watches, Seikos are only so-so timekeepers. I love them, and own 10+ Seiko autos using 7S26 and 4R35/36 movements, both of which are fine for watches that cost $100-$300, but they don't come anywhere close to the COSC ETAs found in my Mido and Rado pieces. Likewise for my old SARB 033 and 017, which ran so poorly I sold them off. Truly, after living with Seiko's supposedly better 6R15 movement in two separate pieces, I say don't waste your money. That's the most inaccurate movement I've ever owned, the 033 off up to 8 minutes per day if left on its side with the crown up. When worn it was relatively accurate (within Seiko's rather sad specs), but they don't adjust them for multiple positions, so they need to be worn 24/7 to maintain accuracy, and I have too many watches to wear one all the time. On that note, I know someone who owns a Seiko dealership, and they've said the same thing about the newer 6R35, and that they're experiencing plenty of complaints. On the positive, if you pay retail for a COSC Mido you'll most likely lose a lot of your "investment" if forced to sell, but if you purchase an overpriced Seiko 62 MAS reissue or one of the similarly styled lower priced alternatives, you'll probably make money, or at least not lose as much. There's a lot to love about Seiko, especially their vintage pieces, but if they want to play in Certina, Mido and Rado territory (or for that matter Tudor), they need to start shipping their premium pieces with their higher-end high-beat movements that do a better job of telling the time. Until then, they're losing their name for good value, and destroying the goodwill they've earned over the past many decades.

I like Seiko overall, but I don't get the cultish fanboy-ism they get. From quality control, to poor timekeeping (not all, i know).... don't get it. I do have some Grand Seiko on my list though, completely different obvi

You know what brands I've gone to since Seiko has increased prices without significantly upgrading the movements? Oris, Tudor, and Nomos. The competition is really intense in the 1000-4000 dollars range there. People often mention "Seiko makes all their parts in house". Well, so does Nomos.

Movement under 6r15 a rated +45/-25! So a 4R35 is rated +45/-25 But they easy to regulate

Exactly how I feel about Seiko! ❤️👍

Hi John, thanks for this promotional video to the Swiss movements. Seikos movements have many followers by the simple fact of being reliable and having a quality well above its price and the best, if the movement breaks with little money you can change it without problems. Ahh and they do one thing very well for little money, they measure time just like any Swiss watch and have flaws just like many Swiss movements. I only have a Seiko 5 sports since 6 years ago and it moves forward 3sec per day, it cost me 130 dollars second hand, do you want something better? I think not?

I bought a Seiko 5 recently for £125 it’s a few years old but it was new old stock. I got it to see if I could live with poor time keeping. Over 6-7 days ending last weekend it did a ridiculously good -0.1 seconds a day, in the last 3 days it’s done 0.9 seconds a day. Last time I checked over a day it was around 8-10 second out. Now I’m worried about buying a luxury watch as the time keeping will likely suck compared to that.

That would be a no for me. Three thousand and it doesn't do the basic time keeping function?

I was just thinking that no one ever talks about accuracy. What kind of time does it keep. All my Seiko watches are durable and reliable but about 15-25 seconds slow per day.

The 4r and 6r movements' 21600 vph, lack of reliability and terrible positional variability were acceptable on watches costing $300. Now that Seiko has moved upmarket (in price only, they've improved nothing), they're putting those awful movements in watches costing north of $1000. That's just ridiculous. Seiko needs better movements, better bracelets, better clasps, sapphire crystals, and much better qc in order to earn their move upmarket. And speaking of QC, if you get a Seiko at any price (excluding GS, of course) and the bezel, the chapter ring and the indexes actually all line up, you should play the numbers, because it's apparently your lucky day. The fact that the overwhelming majority of their watches leave the factory with this flaw is unacceptable at any price.

What’s stopping me from buying the SPB 143 is the low accuracy movement of the 6R35. I really love the design of the watch but the movement is a complete turn off. I hope Seiko can see this channel.

Why buy a first hand Seiko for US$1-1.5k that is likely wildly inaccurate when you can get a secondhand COSC-spec Tudor for US$2-3k? I love both brands but if Seiko wanna play in the >1k space, they gotta step up their game.

+25 -15 is the standard for a base Orient movement.

I currently own 2 seiko divers. They both run around +8. But I’ve had several in the past a they are hit or miss imo. I will always have seiko in my collection tho so I probably biased. I recommend the new mm200 reduced model (sbdc125) for u John p. I think it’ll fit your wrist pretty good.

Thank you! I was going to order the new SPB453 but accuracy is poor. Instead ordered a Mido chronometer.

MM 300 8L35 it was fast +9 a day when I first wound it brand new from the box. It got better everyday until it settled down after a couple months. Now +2 or +3 seconds a day sometimes better. The last time I put it against my radio atomic G-Shock for 14 days it was +1.7 seconds a day. Anything mechanical needs time to break in before you evaluate it.

John Thank You for the vídeo. If You ask Hans he will be able yo explain how the Etas get regulated and cerificated by COSC. So all depends on hand work. So those Seikos, sometimes, do not even align properly....Want a better Seiko, Buy an Islander from Long Island watches.😎🤔

Any seiko over 500 is pushing it and over 1000 is a definite no go. Seiko makes great bargain watches that is all. If you want a high-end seiko then get grand Seiko (exception for the spring drive seikos... maybe...couldn't tell you since I haven't seen let alone held one)

IMO Seiko is unbelievably overrated. Bought a Seiko 5 because everyone was saying it’s the best entry level watch and it’s the watch I wear the least in my collection. Plus new Seiko’s aren’t even that affordable anymore

7s, 4r and 6r aren't really that great. Lots of positional variance and poor isochronism. The 6r seems to be particularly problematic, at least there's lots of complaints online. I bought sarb035, got a great price, but the accuracy has been so so. It started at plus 10, and now three months later, it's minus 7. I'm gonna have to crack it open and nudge the etachron lever. I pretty well agree with everything you said.

I have a lucky SKX. face up consistently 1 second plus beat rate error .7. Not bad for the base non hacking movement. I have ETA movements that are no better or slightly better. The thing I like about the Seiko is that it keeps power with my daily hand motion. My ETA autos, not as good.

Yep for some reason Seiko quotes a wider accuracy tolerance than seems necessary (after having owned many of them myself). Probably a lack of confidence in repeatable accuracy from the factory, concern about warranty claims, etc. They perform better than factory spec in my experience, but I still always prefer an equivalent ETA movement.

Many of the Swiss, German, French and even Russian watches tend to be much more accurate than promised. Seiko seems not to most of the time get even these loose specs they promise. You have to wear seiko for whole day to get even close to promised accuracy. Powermatic 80 can be left in watchbox for an weekend and stays on time.

Sorry to comment again but £2000 is the absalute max for any Seiko cos after that the value prop falls off a cliff......

You should look at the seiko Marinemaster 300 range of watches incredible finishing grand seiko movement and great dials also wears so much smaller than you would believe

Used to be a Seiko fan and accuracy of their watches up to those using the 8L series of movements is really random out of the box. Could be to within a few seconds a day or better, but but can also be barely within their +15s and in one instance even faster for me. Truly feel they need to up their game the same way they are increasing the prices on their watches with their 6R and 8L movements. Otherwise, the just too many entry level Swiss brands offering better watched for similar cash.

Hi John. Very interesting talk . Greetings from Sheffield South Yorkshire England 😀😺

You said it in the video yourself. Seiko can say "It is within specification." Do Rolex that you like to compare against, sell their movements to other watch manufacturers? Sekio deliberately specified "loose" specification accuracy specifications. And THAT is why most Seiko's always are more accurate and why all is saying the same thing. Seiko is smart and as a brand that has put all the swiss brands to shame in their own competition in Switzerland (Geneva observatory competition) back I'm the day. For just the accuracy! So they know how to regulate a movement better than the swiss in other words😂 But when they sell their movements to other watchmakers with that specification the customers know that they will deliver and Seiko minimize issues with "it is out if specification". A completely different business model that they have to play it safe in low margin movements production. And that is noting Rolex need to do. In short those accuracy specifications are deliberately conservative stated. And we are little bit fall in the trap that it "should" be regulated in 6 positions.😅😂 How is that helpful? Do we have the watch equally long time of the day with the crown up as with crown down? Of course not.. We do not go and point to the sky for hours each day!😂😅 Yes it is ideally that there is as little variance between the 6 positions as possible. The only true "position" that is relevant is that it is position at the unique individual that has it on his wrist and his individual usage. If that usage gives X seconds deviation.. Then THAT is what should be regulated and that is far better than bla bla 6 positions..😅 But we Seiko fans are more likely to fix the regulation by our self than any other watch brand community. ❤ Sharing is caring so we are less stuck in what is printed on the paper for its accuracy when that is less sat in stone.🎉

Great video John but true I love Seiko designs especially the reedition but one thing is the timekeeping is what putting me off 🇦🇺cheers

Currently seiko knocking it out of the ballpark aesthetically. Killer stuff. But the movement’s are garbage. Bought the SPB 62 MAS reinterpretation. Gorgeous looking piece. Kept good time for a few months then started dropping daily. Got a local seiko dealer to regulate it and was running within 2 secs a day for a while. Then again started dropping like crazy now around minus 30 a day. The 6R movement seems erratic and unreliable. Never again will I buy another no matter how stunning the exterior looks. For the money seiko now asking go for anything with a selita sw 200 or equivalent ETA that can be reliably regulated instead.

My seiko was running about +4 spd until i dropped it. Then it was running -60spd and I have found it impossible to get it back to where it was; mostly because of the regulating mechanism Seiko has in their watches. There is almost no way to fine tune it. So I'm settling now for +30spd. After doing more reading and finding out the differences between seiko movements and swiss movements and different methods of regulation i've been really turned off from lower end Seikos. The only models i would buy now are quartz, spring drive or their new 9S movements.

Seiko have some interesting watches, but I think the standard Seiko line is getting a bit expensive, obviously they are trying to reposition the brand. Also, I can't stand the Prospex and Presage branding.

I drive trains in england, I need to know exactly how late I am.... I can confirm seiko watches lose loads of time in a day! : D

This is my biggest issue with regular Seiko, the designs have become so popular that they can raise their prices, but for the price, swiss and german watches are just better.

Thank you for sharing. Now I seemed to accept to adjust my Seiko Shadow Samurai. In fact I had it recalibrate 3 times already since last year, whereas the last two was just recently. The last one was a back job; 1 min. per day. Been comparing my two other watches Oris Big Pilot day date and my recent purchase of Certina Super 500M orange vs my Samurai the reason I notice its delay/needs to adjust.

My Seiko mm 300 +1-1 Rolex deepsea +-0 Rolex seadweller +-o Citizen 1000m -15

I have some the funny thing is that i got myself some mods base built on 6r35 or 6r15, mods are extremely accurate since an expert was regulating the movements, I've been comparing them to my new seamaster 300, no different, the 6r35 mod i'd say even better. Then I have the Sumo 6r35 and the spb149j1 6r35 those are better than the official specs mine -5 +7 , same movements than the mods but worse accuracy performance... by the way to me all of them great watches. I understand your point though

Ive had 7 Seiko watches and ive had 5 that had relatively tight accuracy that was within + or - 10 seconds a day. Ive had 2 seiko turtles and both were around minus 35-40 seconds per day. I had them regulated and they were good for a month or so and just went out of wack again. I threw them out and just chocked them both up as a loss. My SKX keeps great time, both my Alpinists old and new are accurate, my Seiko mojito is +2 a day. And i have a mini turtle that is also super tight in accuracy. So yes its hit or miss. In my experience they are decently accurate or just plain horrible. Its all across the spectrum or their movements to from low end to high end. Ive had a super accurate 7s26 movement. Not great luck with the 4R movements. And ive had good luck with the 6R movements. Its kind of a toss up. I will say that seiko movements are ridiculously tough though. In my younger days i wore a SKX everyday for over 6 years at work as a union construction worker. I subjected that watch to horrible things in extremely hot weather to below zero weather and everything in between. Watch is still ticking hasnt been serviced because why would I and its still accurate. Ive beat the crap out of both the new and old Alpinists too. Seiko's are wonderful tool/beater/ everyday watches. Its just sometimes their quality control isnt the greatest and you can get a lemon. Like i said ive had 5 great ones and 2 with horrible accuracy.

I swap my watches on almost daily basis and have my Seiko Turtle in the rotation. Keeps good time but usually goes on the wrist for a relatively short time. And I am gladly using it as a proper diver. I would not take my Explorer out on the beach or dip it into seawater. Seiko perfectly does this ob for me. John asked for a comment.

This may sound simple but it is. Weishi 1000 for $250.00 in a couple of adjustments you can get +-3Sec easy and it will lock in there. Most of the brands mentioned require you to almost replace the watch for a serious service.

Have a Seiko and a Tissot. The Tissot is COSC certified and very accurate, it did come with a certificate. The Seiko is inconsistent. It is ok sometimes but seems to be about 4 minutes fast after a few weeks.

Any competent watchmaker can regulate these Seiko watches to keep excellent time. I used to have a SCSZ004 with 6R15 that kept better than COSC specs. Why Seiko doesn’t regulate them is a mystery. Just cause Seiko states a certain spec doesn’t mean it isn’t capable of better accuracy.

If you want serious accuracy buy quartz.

As per my experience with the Prospex PADI, the Tuna Penguins and Monster 2nd gen. They were all inaccurate and with bad bracelet/rubber. Yet they are fun to collect.

Question; With mechanical watches not really being used for any real meaningful timekeeping or navigation anymore, is the Cosc certification just a sales gimmick now? It feels like modern watches are more of a fashion item rather then a tool, would you rather buy the design or the accuracy?

Toyota A90 Supra pulls the same game. Says it has "x" horsepower on the website but it over delivers on the dyno.

I own a $4000 SLA043. Every day at 6 AM, I set it five seconds slow so that by 6 AM the next day it’s only five seconds fast. That way, it’s mostly accurate during my workday.

many buyers may have got accurate pieces, but i own a captain willard re-issue (which i like for its design, dial, heritage, etc.) running with +15 seconds/day. 👎🏼 of course, that is within seiko-standards, but, in contrast, every single swiss-made watch in my collection in that price range with an eta/sellita movement is running within cosc-standards (although not officially certified). definitely a difference in quality!

I need Seiko to do some no date window watches

I am guessing Seiko playing safe with what they advertise on their site. But i see his point, some of their watches are getting expensive. But i am into decent/cheaper movements with pretty dials.

Okay, John. You sold me. What watch strap is that?

This is weird I thought with modern numerical controlled machines much tighter tolerances would be achieved and more accurate movements would result. But the opposite is true for seiko.

The movements in seiko are good the problem is even in the more expensive models is that they don't regulate them even the Marinemaster which has a grand seiko movement in isn't regulated which isn't good for an 3000 dollor watch. But if you get it regulated by a good watch maker (shouldn't be nessary) they keep really good time for example my MM 300 keeps withing 10 seconds a month.

COSC certified, chronometer rated :))) I always find it hilarious when mechanical watch fans get anal about accuracy. It's like they get into their 1920s Rolls Royce (while wearing their top hat and monocle) and expect the same performance as a modern Honda Civic.

I NEVER seen Seiko that +30 to +45 s/d . If it is then I think the watch is up for service. really, i think they just being humble in the manual book. I own more than one Seiko (of course). My worst Seiko is doing -3 s/d.

Seiko collexctor here who also loves Rolex. Here is my experience and recommendations: Sbdx017 (top recommended diver) - less than a second a day. Pretty close with my Submariner. Discontinued model, it is iconic Sekio diver design and best diver from their golden age of early to mid 2010s. Uses a grand seiko level movement. around $1800-2000 used. Sark003 (recommended chrono) - minus 5 seconds per day. column wheel chronograph (not integrated so it's thick) Best of this is the dial which is hand painted in Japanese lacquer called urushi. Very eye catching and good everyday piece. Around $2000 used. sbdc001 - minus 15 seconds. bang for your buck watch around $500 but the time keeping drove me crazy other seiko watches: sary087 - plus 10 seconds. dress watch around $700 my first seiko auto- minus 20 seconds

I currently have 10 Seiko watches in my collection, mostly new, but a few go back several years. I have returned somewhere in the neighborhood of 6 recent purchases because of poor timekeeping. I define poor as anything in the over 15 spd range. It's possible to get a new Seiko in the single digit accuracy range, but my recent experience (last 3 - 4 years) is they are the exception. My experience certainly doesn't qualify as statistically valid, but does raise the question, especially given that most of my recent purchases of Chinese "homage" watches with a variant of the venerable 4R movements (NH, in current parlance) have been in the sub 15 spd range. Seikos "5" line is their most popular range carrying this movement and they start in the $300 MSRP range and can usually be purchased for something just north of $200. The Chinese watches I'm referring to are typically $80 - $200. No originality in design and hard pressed to match Seikos case and dial finishing, but almost all of them have sapphire crystals, ceramic bezels, milled clasps and properly aligned markers and indices. You have to spend well over $500 for a Seiko with those attributes. The issue for me is why doesn't Seiko do even a modest level of regulation of their movements, as it appears at least some of their Chinese competition are doing? Isn't at least part of our fascination with mechanical watches the remarkable level of precision engineers can achieve using springs, gears, wheels and other components?

Seiko is a watch that fits into the world market. They never aligned a bezel though.

This is the reason why I dont by a mechanical seiko. The movement does have precision but they dont regulate their watches to reduce cost in labour to adjust it. I would be willing to pay extra to get a regulated watch. Go with the eco drive quartz version if you get a seiko.

My cheap NH35 watch keeps time to within +/- 4 seconds per day. They are simple to regulate, I regulated mine, and I'm no watchmaker. John P seems to know the price of everything and the value of nothing.

I own a Seiko SLA021J1 for about 2 years. Worn it hard with all activities. Very consistent timekeeping at +6 secs/day. Crown up at night and it would level out to +1. I would rarely manual wind. Then recently I noticed the timekeeping way off. Slapped it on the timegrapher and noticed the beat error was way up. From 0.1 to 2.0. Off to Seiko USA for servicing. I was disappointed. Comparing that Seiko MM300 to my Omega Speedy which has had its fair share of mishaps and drops. The Speedy still keeps excellent time. So I bought a BB58 out of anger 🙃

My Seiko SARB035 is running -5 sec/day. For comparison, my TAG Heuer 2000 I bought in ‘04, with an ETA 2824, runs +6 sec/day, & my Squale GMT, with a Sellita SW330, runs +2 sec/day, sometimes better!

I have alot seikos my most recent is the spb143 and it’s been a few months and the watch has been super on point but I also have a sarb033 and it’s -15 everyday .. but that’s the older 6r15 but I just can’t afford watches that are over 5k …

Seiko watch movements are not regulated at all - they come off the factory line and whatever the timekeeping is, it is. As a CYA, they have very broad timekeeping specs as a result. They're usually much better (although not always). It's actually kind of amazing that purely by machine assembly they can get the timekeeping as accurate as it is with no regulation. If you have a timegrapher, its actually pretty easy to regulate them yourself.

Love the argument about accuracy while wearing the remake SLA033 (3500USD) of one of the greatest Seiko Icon's 6105.

I have a Capt. Willard and similar ,movement with a steel bezel. I have no science on it's accuracy, but casual observations, what I've noticed is one loses like 4 minutes every two weeks, the other gains like 3 minutes every two weeks, lying on my desk, winding them, and sometimes I don't wear them for a few weeks. Problems with their movements is they vary in accuracy. Some people get better and worse accuracy. Both are in the $1200 JDM watches. Bezel lines up. I will get this they are durable. I think they quoted spec's are deliberate so they don't have to be sent back and put in an acceptable spec. Doesn't bother me, I just set them when I wear them. Your other recommendations are good. CW did give me a COSC sheet for a watch. In anycase love the Capt. Willard and no watch is perfect. In. the end get what you want and put a smile no your face. Options are good. Also if it really bothers you and it shouldn't have to be done for a money of this watch it shouldn't need to be done, and good local watch maker can adjust them for a limited amount of money. Not a fanboy. And own every brand of watch you mentioned and feel the same. Good review. Even Colin on the his website owns a King Turtle, and both he, you and myself know and understand Seiko's issues. FWIW I do like my Seiko's than my Tissot's.