Good to hear about that okuma, i know them pretty well, tough to beat them, some of the best machines in the world, and you wont ever wanna buy a haas again.
I've spent a little over a year so far working as an engineer at an air compressor manufacturer. Most of what I have done has been with piston style air compressors, so it isn't exactly the same as John's rotary screw setup. Unloading is simply releasing the air in the plumbing between the pump and the tank so that the pump can be spun easier the next time it starts. Most compressors, except for very small ones, can overcome this pressure and start without unloading. However, it is WAY more work for the motor to do that. It is basically the equivalent of starting a car in drive instead of park or neutral. Rotary screw compressors can lower the rpm considerably to produce a much lower volume of air, that can be bled off if needed, rather than shutting off entirely when the demand for air decreases. This is partially because rotary compressors have very active oiling systems to keep everything well lubricated. Piston pumps are typically splash lubricated by a small arm on the bottom of the connecting rod. If the pump doesn't spin fast enough, the arm doesn't hit the oil hard enough to splash it up to the various parts that need to be lubricated. The lead lag setup described is often used on duplex compressors. However, they usually have circuitry to automatically alternate between compressors each time air is needed. Unlike a lot of people, John has the use case figured out. Reliability and continuous air supplied while one compressor is down or being serviced. Many people buy a duplex compressor thinking that it can supply double the CFM. That is true when both compressors are running. However, if the air demand is high enough for that to always be the case, the compressor will rarely shut off and will encounter numerous issues and an premature death. The only real trick with running a lead lag setup is getting the pressures set correctly. That is very dependant on the air demand and the size of the compressors. Usually 5-10 psi apart works well. If a compressor runs for a long time before shutting off, it is too small of a compressor (HP/KW). If it runs frequently, but only for a short period of time each time it runs, then more storage volume is needed.
I did a lot of work with pneumatic equipment that needed a lot of air (each of our machines usually had a 10hp compressor requirement), here's what i found. Screw types quieter (usually), and typically are designed to run continuously, as you said, they have active lubrication,and they're usually big. Screw type compressors keep the motor running for some time after they finish cycling (usually programmable), so it's no problem for them to keep a tight pressure range... having a delta of 10psi isn't a big deal, while on piston types you're starting and stopping the motor (there are some that also unload and freewheel), so it just harder on things to keep tight pressure ranges. If I were to choose though, I'd have the screw type as the primary compressor and the piston compressor as the backup Air line size? 1" should be plenty for 10hp worth of air, an additional storage tank at the far end of the line would solve any pressure fluctuations I haven't heard of what they use to remove water from the air... if they have a refrigerated drier (which is probably the best), they shouldn't have any condensation, but without one, get some automatic drains, you can program them to drain for 5 seconds every 10 minutes or whatever... also, especially if you don't have really dry air, pay attention to how you route your air lines, put a good slope in them, don't have any sags where water can accumulate. The old shop I worked in did none of this, and you could literally get showered with 5 gallons of water trying to hook up a quick connect that hadn't been used in a while, or worse yet, a high demand machine suddenly coming online would suddenly be fed nothing but water, which would overload the machine's water separator and could seriously screw things up
Nick, it would seem to me there is a sweet spot for cycling on machines with less than 100% duty ratings. If your compressor sits a long time between starts you're imparting extra heat cycles and running the risk of condensation. Really it seems like the ideal setup would be a screw compressor that's cool with running partial load all the time.
Congrats on the Okuma, we've got an M560 and it's a beast. We'll beat on it all day long and then run small parts with super tight tolerances the next day. Can't say enough good things about it.
Its the little tweeks that make shop life easier and more productive. Thanks for sharing. A 2" ring main of air would be better but even if you upgraded what you have to a ring or loop around you might see a difference.
you can put a couple air tanks and T them into the main line to provide more stable air pressure during heavy use. just plain 10~20 gallon tanks are cheap and you can stick them up on the wall close to the main line with a simple bracket and a bit of 1" pipe and a T fitting and spread them out so they are near heavy consumers. if you put the tanks with the connection on the bottom you dont need to wrooy about water and you have plenty of space to put the tanks up near the roof so you dont lose real estate. and no, the unloader does not wear out. its just a valve. more air storage also means the compressors have less cycles.
He's talked about battery tanks many times on the BOM podcast. There are positives and negatives but ultimately it doesn't seem like the right solution for their shop.
It can also be an offset to his too-small air line, by putting them at strategic places around the shop. That way the line doesn't have to draw from a central location for local short high-volume flows. However, that doesn't solve the need for a backup compressor. Motors and unloading valves will eventually fail on any compressor.
Congratulations on buying Okuma. I've been working on Okuma OSP-P300M for about 2 years now and i absolutely love it. There are some differences in programming (like G15 H1 instead of G54) but i find it much more intuitive than something like Fanuc.
Glad to gear that you are getting an OKUMA! Can’t wait to see the videos about it! Regarding the air, you should add air receivers to critical points and they should take care of your problem.
John, for your smart tool box features there's nothing wrong with keeping it simple. My recommendation would be to standardize the toolbox layout and get some 5S foam shadow boards to keep it that way. So every toolbox in front of a milling machine has the same tool and drawer layout, so you don't have to think about it. You could also have a standard lathe toolbox layout. And if you really need, just make a little laminated index on the box for reference. It helps you follow that lean manufacturing approach, sorting, standardizing, etc. It will also greatly speed up training since everyone will know what tools each machine has. There's a lot to be said for simple organization and standardization, keep up the good work John!
I can see John's idea being useful for nonstandard tools that you don't stock by the machines but back in the "tool room", for lack of a better term. Considering his interest in programmable devices, I'd suggest something like an Arduino with WIFI and a column light over the toolbox to blink, and maybe a small screen that can say "Drawer 5A", rather than a light on every drawer.
@@lwilton I certainly get that, John is definitely someone that enjoys widgets. And that certainly is different from my essentialist view, where I find it better to remove things and simplify. Things can't go wrong if there's nothing to go wrong 😁😁😁
@@capnthepeafarmer But you will always have some job come thru that takes a special tool or two, and rational simplification says you don't keep that nonstandard (and mostly useless) tooling in the machine tool box. So how do you find that unusual endmill the one time you need it for a odd job?
@@lwilton Easy, don't keep consumables in tool boxes. 😁 In my shop, the tool box is used for protecting tools, like calipers, micrometers, and sensitive measuring equipment, and common stuff not tied to a particular area. General hand tools needed at a specific area are hanging on shadow boards in front of the area where they are used, ER collet wrench, depth stop, etc. Consumable tooling endmills, drills, and the like are all in the tool vending area and inventory can be tracked in one location. It's much more money conscious and lean to stock the tool room instead of stocking each toolbox. Like why buy 5 drills for each tool box, when you can just buy 5 drills for the entire shop? The best way to avoid needing special tooling is to not quote using special tools. I know that sounds redundant, but assuming you have a good assortment of tools that you use for 80% of your jobs you shouldn't need a special tool or you need to look at different work holding. The call to buy a special tool is if you can't accomplish the job in any other feasible way, and the customer doesn't mind paying that premium for buying special tooling, and you don't mind buying it. Then that special tool is a non-stocked item in the tool room, tool boxes don't change at all.
We plumbed a relatively inexpensive piston compressor with a big receiver tank in with our screw compressor with a valve to close isolate the receiver tank from the screw compressor. That way if our screw compressor goes down unexpectedly requires scheduled maintenance we can run the $1500 piston compressor and keep the machines up. Relatively cheap insurance.
There is a technology called Ultra Wideband that can perform indoor positioning down to circa 10cm. It’s used in some hospitals to locate equipment. Could be useful!
Have you ever looked into implementing Home assistant into the mix? Its such a flexible platform it would probably work great with your home brewed solutions. Besides managing power consumption, entry points, lighting, etc you could get direct message notifications for anomalies like leak detection which sounds much better than a beep in a machine shop. You’d get notifications anytime-anywhere plus you could utilize Zigbee contact sensors and NFT tags pretty effectively.
I love that you are constantly improving. I think using electronic tags sounds overkill though. Just making sure you have proper homes makes more sense IMO
my shop got an Okuma Genos the 5 axis version super rigid holds tolerance all day and shits all over all the haas but the spindle died on us for no apparent reason (New machine has never crashed). luckily it was still under warranty and they got it replaced and going again quickly
Augers seem like a complicated solution solved by shower coolant. A dedicated pump could be used or a triggered diverter valve that switches coolant flow during tool changes to spray chips onto the conveyor
welcome to the okuma experience and family!🤝 nice, finally to see one of you ’tubers running on okuma!👌 when you will enjoy it, perhaps you will get another lathe of?😉 hopefully you ordered that osp with full dialog programming? there is nothing other handy out there in floor programming! i don't like g/m code tipping anymore!🤮 i‘m out, running my macturn again!👋
The end of those screw drives catching swarth, instead of prevention you could move to cure, if 3D print little flattish pipes blowing compressed air upwards or slightly aimed back into cabinet. Just need the little manifold and a compressor fitting screwed in and a valve if you're fancy.
I haven't had experience with the Haas control but I really do like the Okuma. It's very easy and forgiving. So much better than any Fanuc in my opinion. I love these quick video shop updates, keep sharing!
John, you don't need a foundation for that bridge mill? We installed a larger one with 120" of X by 63" of Y travel. For that machine it was vitally necessary to have a concrete pad for the machine to set on. This machine (Toyoda SB316. I don't like the machine) was somewhat difficult to level and square. Without the foundation that would be impossible to keep level and square over time.
Short answer: yes, the Okuma spec for the foundation is substantial. Anecdotally, many shops seem to choose not to meet the full builder spec (we know 5 people with Genos machines who have similar foundations to us and also do not meet the builder spec). This is "only" a 20,000lb machine and we've had other machines of similar weight running in this spot for 6 years. So far, its been a solid foundation. IF that proves wrong, we will then cut up the floor and pour a dedicated pad.
I dont know if I would consider the okuma genos machines as true brigde mills, they are technically double column I think. But because the Y axis doesn't actually pass all the way through the columns the casting is basically a huge rectangular cube and so you don't need much more than decent cement to set them on.
Unless you can fit the machine on a single pad which has enough depth (45 cm If I remember correctly) then you absolutely need a foundation. If would be the equivalent of eating a 5 course dinner on a fold up picnic table. As soon as the Main dish hits the table the whole thing will be on the move.
@@mikehorrod4367 this isn't really true. Okuma recommends 2 feet for all there regular machines. At our old shop we were in we had 3.5 to 4 inches we were there for 20 years and never had an issue with machines moving or needed to be re-leveled. At our shop now we have 8 inches and several machines around 30,000 pounds and still no issue's. There are tons of machines in our area here and very few smaller machines are on there own pads
John.....was north of you in Coshocton but didn't have time to stop by. Would have been nice to see all your shop and maybe pick you brain. Next time for sure!
Most other machines I've seen use coolant nozzles to spray the walls and chip augers to prevent chips from building up. Cost is a little higher for the extra pump and plumbing.
Love the videos John!! Lots of great nuggets ! I once saw you made a 3D printed magnet holder for your torque wrench for the machine. Could you please show or tell me how you did it? What magnets you used? Thank you and God Bless!
Just ordered 2 6mm mod vises for my router mill table. Hopefully some day soon I can get in a custom order for a custom full sized fixture plate for my 19x19 Mega V to replace the Tslot fixture plate setup. Trying to use the MegaV fixture plate with vises really eats up a lot of my Z axis that is available. Moving to a one piece fixture plate with my end plates fixed to it will give back Z axis height as well as lock in and square the rig for better tram across all axis.
Okuma machines are excellent! The one “gripe” I have is their OSP control is just enough different for programming (G15 H for work offsets, G54 H for tool length offsets) they may be a bit tricky to get accustomed to. Otherwise they’re great machines. Can’t wait to see the videos on it.
consideration when buying a new compressor, I don't know about haas but the okuma consumes a reasonable amount of air with its constant air purge on the spindle
Getting my xometry test part mailed to me soon to help start my little garage business with my used Haas Super mini mill. Hopefully i’ll finally have my first product out soon too and not have to rely on job shop work forever, But I’m glad it’s there. Also I currently work in robotics, let me know if you need a volunteer for anything. I’d love to help in exchange for all the videos you put out that are now helping me start my business.
Around 4 minuit mark. That is a great idea, the hard part is getting everyone to actually use it. I still get my income mostly washing dishes for amcatering company. They expect to find things in specific spots, the issue is they get in a rush, grab something, put it down in an incorrect area and grab something else then carry on working. I have to reorganise on a daily basis as the cooks don't follow the pbilosophy of where to find things when they are the ones putting it down. Hope you can actually express they WHY to do it to your crew and have them take it to heart. On chip removal, couldn't you add a form of ' bypass pump ' to a few replacement pressure washer tips to shoot down in the corners at the end to literally blast out the units?
What was the shop he toured that machines the foam sheets for packaging their aerospace parts? Had a bunch of old 50 taper mills. Can’t find it on his library.
Does your air setup make a full loop? This may help balance the draw and reduce the pipe size limitation you're seeing (looks like 3 machines in series on one feed line). I believe someone else mentioned it too, but a receiver tank may also help balance the load when you have several machines syncing up with a large draw.
It might be fun to try designing the Bluetooth devices yourself. Basically comes down to picking components, designing the PCB in Fusion and sending the design to a PCB manufacturer and maybe making an enclosure. Software can usually be written in Arduino IDE.
That green powder coat tape-I didn't think that was Kapton. Kapton tape in my experience is an amber color and I think that's intrinsic to the plastic.
Wouldn't the bin location be a ideal job for a raspberry pi and off the shelf addressable LEDs ?, Or a node mcu to do the same thing these could be terminated onto cat5 cable and plugged into a patch panel of sorts(or just a few rj45's in the enclosure) to allow daisy chaining them for more or less drawers pi's can also be Poe powered for ease of deployment, lex can then just call the pi and ask for the lamp on or flashing A roll of 50 addressible bullet LEDs is like $20 or you could also use the tape varient and have it illuminate just the section down the front of the box at the side of a specific drawer
Okuma! Good buy. The conversational programing IGF feels like cheating CNC programming. Edit: the API isn't very open. If you get approved by okuma no problems.
Can you let me know what the make and model number of your hand crank cranes at your machines? The y look like they would work great for my needs. Thank you
Hey John I have a 50hp digital rotary screw Ingersoll Rand compressor! With 3 tanks available that can be hooked in series. Two 300 gallon and on 400 gallon! Please buy them or share that i have it available! It will help me keep going! 211 cfm @ 128 psi. Ir just serviced it. I was asking $10,000 for it all but im open to offers and trades. 85 amps 480 3 phase.
You should be careful calling your robot "Johnny 5" -------- There's a car channel called "b is for build" -- and they were building an old mustang car called "Elanor" -- out of the movie "Gone in 60 seconds" ----------- So they were copying this movie car, and after they were several videos in and the car is halfway built, the Movie Studio/ producers ended up suing that channel and literally took their car away.. All because "Elanor" the car is a character in the movie, so they got them for copyright infringement. My point is, the makers of the "Johnny 5 movie could easily try to sue you and take your robot property away... no joke. So I would be careful calling it "Johnny 5" --- Just call it anything else.
You’ll see the massive difference in quality and performance of the okuma…you will realise how shit Haas actually are…you will never purchase a Haas again…
