Cheapest places to buy: Prologo tidd.ly/4107862f Pro Stealth tidd.ly/2787102 Someone donate me a Specialized Power to complete my arse test of these Gooch Cupping Wonder Thrones.
Thank you for the comment about the pro saddle on a smart trainer, I was looking at this one as a possibility but I'll keep looking. I'm a similar build to you and fit a wider saddle, do you have any newer recommendations since posting this video? Cheers 😊
Wow, super-informative !!!!! 6'7" here and 9 years of mountain biking, but just recently got into gravel riding, and finding the "right" saddle has certainly been a challenge. You've given me a lot to consider and try....tall guy with seat-forward and short cranks, I would have never guessed.
I'm totally with you on moving the seat forward. I end up moving the bars forward too. I hate lax seat angles. I usually find a seat post that has zero rake (or even REVERSIBLE!). The great thing is sitting upright and climbing with that great steep angle. So easy. Easy to relax, spin and breath. Life is too short for hard saddles. I'm a whimp when it comes to saddles and no one sees them when you are sitting on them. A cushy saddle is my suspension.
Thanks for the review. I have tried a number of saddle designs and, experimentally, kept going back to ISM for my TT bike without really understanding why. I have a cheap chinese (EC90) copy of the Specialised Power saddle. It's great on the road bike and the MTB (where my riding position is more upright) but I like to sit fairly near the front of that saddle. I perceived that I liked riding on the narrower part of the saddle but felt very uncomfortable in the TT position. I also ride fairly near the front of the ISM saddle in my TT position where the nose is wider than the EC90. I had expected this to be less comfortable but found the opposite to be true. This video pointed out the issue of the location of my sit bones relative to the saddle being better, and more optimised. The moment this was mentioned it was like a Eureka moment. I'd been tempted to go back and try putting the EC90 back on the TT rig but decided against it. Just come back from a 2 hour+ turbo session in the TT position without any discomfort in my perineal region. As Peak Torque (sorry, don't know the guy's actual name) has pointed out elsewhere, the biggest issue with saddle comfort/discomfort, however, is often saddle height. I'm a little guy, 168 cm (about 5' 6" in Imperial Currency) and when you see these tall guys with lots of seat pillar sticking out above the seat tube the temptation is to want to emulate that. I haven't had a professional bike fit but I've used several online 'calculators' with my own body measurements. I now have my saddle between 3 cm and 5 cm lower than the various 'fits' have suggested. Not only that, they recommended 172.5 mm crank lengths too! I switched to 165 cm about 2 years ago and have improved my PB for both 10 and 25 mile TTs significantly in that time. I think the biggest issue is the smoothness of the pedalling circle. BTW, I'm not some young kid who's still working towards his performance peak. I did some TTs as a teenager but only got racing again 5 years ago, in my late 50s, so any improvements now are particularly pleasing. Thanks Peak Torque for the scientific/engineering analysis in your videos. I'm a graduate physicist myself and appreciate the technical input and explanations that you bring that isn't available in cycling videos by other RU-vidrs (even those who have served their time as professional cyclists, to whom you've referred previously).
I appreciate the deep dive into the bike geometry and how that affects the seat specs. I’m only 6’2”, but have the seat post pretty high. Good info. Thanks.
I ended up getting the Prologo saddle and my first ride on it was right at 4+ hours and not uncomfortable at all. After about 2 months and 10 rides it was a good decision. Thumbs up.
UCI requires 50mm setback from the center of the BB to the nose of the saddle, which feels ridiculous to me as a former track racer. Especially for TT's, the only solution is a snub-nose saddle with a sit position closer to the nose, because the rule applies to the nose, not sit position. It's almost as silly as the weight minimum not changing for over a decade.
I hear you on the seat tube angle. In 1998 I was working at a bike shop who was a Serotta dealer, my custom Legend Ti had a 66cm CC seat tube, 65cm top tube and a 74 degree seat tube. I just wish the frame was a little bit stiffer under full power.
really interesting video. i'm currently riding a Chapter2 Rere size S, with a reach of 369, seat angle of 73 whereas the bike I'm looking to purchase has a reach of 383 but a seat angle of 74.2. did not know that 1.2 degree of a difference is that massive. thanks
great review! thanks! any idea about the 142mm vs 152mm? wandering if the 152mm is wider allover (meaning front-middle-rear) or just at the rear part (while front-middle being the same)? regards, M
Dr. Steven Schrader with the National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health (NIOSH): “When you sit on a bike the pressure on the perineum increases sevenfold. Riders using a classic saddle place 1/4 of their body weight on the perineum. The amount of oxygen reaching the ***** typically falls 70% to 80% in 3 minutes. A guy can have his oxygen levels drop 100% but he doesn’t know it. After half an hour he goes numb. Saddles with splits or holes may make matters worse because they have smaller surface areas, and hence the rider’s weight presses harder on less saddle. The arteries in the perineum run laterally and therefore they come under more pressure when they come into contact with the cutouts’ edges. It is no longer a question of whether or not traditional bike saddles causes ED, but what are you going to do about it?” Spongy Wonder
Call the video "how to get Aero" as well. I went trough a lot of research of videos and pro bikes to find out the seatpost and saddle forward thing and the hip angle thing. You really go trough all the necessary details and nuances of buying a saddle. Bit of a shame most bike shops and garbage sponsored reviews don't bring you that knowledge. I guess I can just give you the compliments you deserve. Just ordered the pro stealth this morning, after watching your review I believe that I made the right choice as I ride mostly flat roads in Flanders in a more laying down position.
Thank you Samuel! Remember though all these things are just my opinion though I am not saying it should work for everyone. To open the hip angle I could of course raise the stem and bars, but I am using almost all of the spacers on this bike already and the position is still very low for me. Also would be detrimental to aero.
@@PeakTorque What crank length are you using? I'm 6'2" and I'm currently using 165mm. I'm sure you realize the benefits with hip angle and aero position. Thanks for the comprehensive review. Cycling is so subjective but the wise can glean useful information from a review like yours..
I know this is an old video but I just found your channel. Have you tried Selle SMP saddles their rails allow a very forward position thanks to the atypically long rails. I have not tried them but may this summer. The long rail may be somewhat compliant for shock absorption as an added bonus. The reason I am interested in SMP saddles are integrated seat posts of proprietary design in two of my main bikes so I cannot swap the seat post around like many can to bring the saddle forward.
Used the Pro Stealth for a while but can't get used to the width of the nose which causes a lot of irritation on my inner thighs. It's a pitty because for the rest it is a very smart design and well built saddle that suits me well(large cutout and flat and wide at the back). How does the nose width compare to the Prologo dimension? Is this one a lot thinner and does it feel like a more "traditional" saddle nose?
You mentioned the narrow nose of the Dimension causing your pelvis to fall forward. Was curious if the wider nose of the Stealth fixed this issue. I have been riding a Dimension for over a year and like it, but also struggle with my pelvis wanting to fall forward. Thanks!
Question, How far apart are your sitbones if you mind sharing? Or could you advise me on mine. I have 120mm width between my sitbones. I'm wondering now if I should get the 152mm or the 143mm version. Love the videos btw keep it up!
Im 5'6" and recently bought the PRO steath 142..Used to ride 132's so I immediately felt the wideness of the Stealth. Even from the front end.The cutout was very comfy though. Still experimenting on making it work for me since I cant swap right now. IMO the stealth was made for taller persons wid wider hips and sit bones.
I completely agree. I can feel the width a lot more at the bottom of the pedal stroke when you really push back into the saddle. It feels a little odd at first. I will give it time.
I have an OCD obsession with fit. One day I feel great, then next everything feels off. I have the Prologo Dimension NDR, and also the Syncros Belcarra, which is similar to the PRO in that it has a wider nose. Like you mentioned, upright feels better on the hoods and bar on the Prologo, and the Belcarra is more comfortable in the drops. It's a total freaking nightmare. At this point I'm pretty much convinced that there is no perfect saddle. You just have to pick on and go with it.
Great review, and thanks for a more technical review than most! As an aside, I had a Stealth, and sold it to buy a San Marco Shortfit racing saddle. I am still waiting for the San Marco, but excited to see how it goes. Will be good for you to try one of them also and comparo!
Agree - they are defo gooch cupping wonder saddles ;-) Nice to test the innovation and shed some light on where they are 'coming from' in the design/marketing process, as they are all fit for purpose - just depends on your purpose I guess.
yeah it's weird how they all design saddles with seating area so far back, look at Astute saddles, they need 76 degree seat tube angle to get in vicinity of forward comfortable
Just found your channel. Honest, practical content. Really love it. Just for sack of visualization, what do your run your saddle height at from center of BB?
Hi. Ho to set Prologo in the right way ? I have this saddle and I have problem to set this saddle because of the shape of it. Are you keep all saddle flat(0) or maybe front of the saddle goes dpwn (-1 or -2)>? I will be grateful for help
I've been riding a Prologo Dimension 143 Tirox for a couple of years now. The saddle suits me. Despite the fact that I ride without cycling shorts. I recently bought a new bike and need to buy a new saddle for it. Is it worth getting the Nack version? won't it be tougher than the titanium version? What do you think? The difference in price is critical.
Great job really !! Very technical's ... Thanks a lot ... Excuse me bit je suis français et du sud, un endroit où l on fait du vélo 12 mois per year. LOL
Kind of late to the party, but you and I have the opposite problem. I've got short legs and a long torso, so the seat tube angle for many bikes is too acute for me :).
if youre really concerned with getting a more foward position, you can modify a seat post. wouldnt cost that much, prolly cheaper than buying a new one. since you have a d-shape you cant just turn your set back 180 degrees like some ppl can.
Actually I don't think PRO saddles are made in Shimano factories. I work in a bike shop and 2-3 years ago we had some PRO test saddles (including a stealth saddle) and they had Selle Italia logos on their bottoms.
sitting too forward s not always good. You will certainly feel it in the calf and can become quite cramped - it's all so personal. I don't go with what the pro's are doing, I go by what works for me !
Seat hunters may want to look for nylon plastic shell saddles which flex more than carbon plastic. Keep in mind that a hand squish to test is inaccurate as we average 20 pounds of squisg force, which ia a tiny fraction of sitting force, firm is better to avoid sinking into the saddle which contributes to skin chafing.
The Giant Variant seat post? I asked the bike shop where I bought the TCR (this year), and also distributer, as I saw writting on the seat post -15+5, but they both said, that the clamb cannot be flipped. So can it be done? Phisicly? And it works?
I tried the power mimic and I found it got wide too quick and irritated the inside of my thighs. Would the pro stealth have a similar issue? I'm a 155 in specialized saddles based on a retul fit.
That's why the Specialized Power Arc was created. Users of the Power complained that it ended too abruptly/felt sharp at the wide and flat part of the saddle. So they made one that had some gradual slope
Is your frame not a size too big given you have the seat set way forward on the rails? I know the seat angles are a degree slacker than most on them TCR frames. I'm 6"3 ish and have been using a size Large/58 ribble sportive racing and it absolutely destroys my neck after an hour or so. 440 cm cars, 110 mm stem, 73 degree seat/head angle. Theoretically it's the right size based on the 'charts', but as I have seen from a few bike fitters online (Francis cade channel) , size charts are a load of horse shit and can easily put you on the wrong sized bike. A topic that would be good to cover on a video. Mountain bikes with the latest geometry seem to be in competition for who can get the steepest seat angle and longest reach / slacker head angle. Having tried a few different mtb bikes, a degree or 2 can make a massive difference to how comfortable a bike is to climb on. I wasn't aware the seat angle was a UCI rule, absurd for regular consumers who have no need for bikes that comply with such nonsense. I've tried a few new road bikes at a shop recently and the one that felt the most comfortable was a trek domane but to the head angle being 1 degree slacker than most, the reach being quite short, plus the wheelbase being rather long. I wouldn't buy one of tbe big brands after seeing how poorly a lot of them are made. I am stuck between sizes and dont know what to do. The winspace slc 2.0 is one I have my eye on but the XL which is 550 is a little long, but the next size down, the wheelbase falls below 1 meter, whichg being tall might not be the best idea. It's complicated!
One problem with shifting weight to the front is handling. It becomes way more responsive due to weight transfer. On this topic, one thing that has been on my mind is the impact that a very short reach handlebar might have. I'm now using a 65mm reach gravel handlebar (which I think will be the new hot thing in road) on an indoor bike so I really don't know if the bike would become more stable or not. I didn't play around with CAD programs or the like but what my gut tells me is that long reach handlebars are actually useless. I would like to have someone show me that I'm wrong. In terms of handling responsiveness I see stem length having an impact (the longer the stem the less responsive is the steering). The wider the handlebar the less responsive is the steering. BUT handlebar reach has NO impact. Just moves the steering point ahead. However, a long reach handlebar eats up on the length of the stem thus longer reach handlebar have a negative impact on handling (assuming quicker handling is bad - let's do that assumption). I've seen videos where you analyze things geometrically. Can you tell me if I'm wrong? Does the handlebar reach alone impacts steering speed?
may I offer my take for long reach handlebars?.They allow you to have your hoods over the front axle when climbing out of the saddle which is important to limit weaving about on steep inclines,and also relieve your back and breath easily when climbing seated.
Usually all symptoms you describing here are resolved by GOOD bike fit. Saddles rearly are reasons for saddle discomfort. Enjoyed wheel building tips btw will attempt to do the same. Keep up a good work.
Graham Obree (Former world hour record holder) used a childs saddle to effectively get a short saddle decades ago. short and forward saddles should have evolved faster. Also, measuring to the nose is dumb, measure to where the sit bones land, my old Flyte had two inches more than my current normal Fizik.
You've nailed one of my pet peeves about these short saddles, in that the 'sit' area is functionally in the same spot relative to the rails. So you cant really put them in a different place without getting a new seatpost
yeah it looks too me that you have set your saddle to suit your handle bar, that's wrong way round really, 5ft of seatpost and a slammed stem, doesn't make for a good position
It's a bit unfair saying the Shimano gives rub in the thighs when sitting on the wings whereas the prólogo doesn't since they are different size saddles. If you get 143 Shimano you shouldn't have the problem
Been on ISM and looking to move saddle. Was recommended the Pro Stealth but I’ve read a lot about rubbing the inner thigh. As I’m 100kg rider with thick thighs I’m worried about rubbing. And the saddle eating bib shorts. Have you found that?
