I'm no audio expert, but there was certainly a slight improvement with the hypercardioid. I've heard from many pro-audio guys (mostly on internet forums!) that shotgun microphones are a no-no indoors, but I'd love to see some more videos around this topic! Thanks Curtis
I used a shotgun on interiors for a long time and the reverb was definitely the biggest problem in my audio. Definitely worth investing in a hypercardioid to avoid frustration.
We're on the same wavelength Curtis. I had the AT4053b for a month to test the same thing. While I noticed a difference against the NTG3, it was very slight. I'd love to get my hands on whatever the standard tends to be for tv and film for indoor booming and see if it really makes a huge difference. My comparison is buried under a bunch of other stuff I shot but hope to have it out soonish. Glad to see someone else thinking about the same issue.
Thanks Ray--looking forward to what you found! I think that the standard for TV and film is the Schoepps CMC641 and that comes in at about $1800 US. Definitely a bit of a stretch for most of us.
ManicMaurice It turns out that I happily use a RODE NT5 outfitted with a capsule from MIchael Joly Engineering. Great cardioid mic and it is quite affordable, too. Here's a comparison of several boom mics including the NT5: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-34T-Q0TZQVI.html And here are the results--people liked the sound of the NT5 with the MJE capsule: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-fqQn9gfKG2I.html
Curtis Judd Thanks guys. Curtis I've listened to a bunch of comparisons again including all yours and based on those, plus what I got from my own tests, it strikes me that it's likely a situation that reverb is not necessarily knocked down anymore by the 4053b, cause really I don't hear much difference at all, but that you are less likely or just won't get the issues that you could get with a shotgun. So phasing problems are avoided but not necessarily echo. Sound right to you? Kind hit me that these are two separate issues, #facepalm;) ManicMaurice I think a cardioid is also a good option and have heard good results but in the end I the hyper is recommended for a couple different reasons. A) the "big boys" aka Hollywood audio guys tend to recommend it and use it reliably every day and it's hard to argue with that kind of experience and results and B) yes you get some pickup from the rear but less from the front which is more important and a cardioid is likely to have more noise pickup due to a large front facing polar pattern. Granted I could be totally wrong on this and since every recording environment is different, there's no one answer. But that's my thought. I think the lesson of all these tests are that all these mics can be made to work. But it is definitely nice to know the answers as to why one of the other is preferred. I think I'm leaning towards the 4053b for indoor dialog. Nice quite noise floor, better for indoors, could be used outside in a pinch, no self noise (this is not listed twice by mistake;)).
Ray Ortega Thanks Ray! Thanks for the recent episode on compression over at thepodcastersstudio.com I came away with a few gems from that one. Biggest nugget was to go more aggressive on the threshold and keep the ratio at 2 or less. In the tests I've done since then, I'm really happy with the results. I also was a little surprised to hear Randy suggest that Loudness Normalization standards are potentially problematic--still got me thinking on that issue. I can say that sometimes loudness normalizing to -16 LKFS seems to result in that over-compressed sound in my dialogue audio. I'm also finding that for male vocals, that the waveforms are often asymmetric and so the positive waveform reaches closer to 0 db than the negative which means I have less headroom. Then found that in broadcast audio, many are using hardware audio processors that "Phase Rotate" the waveform to correct for the asymmetry. Have you seen this issue? I've been looking around and the only software processor I've found to fix this is Izotope's RX4 Advanced which rings up at $1200 USD. Wow!
I've shot interior dialogue on tons of locations with both the NTG-2 as well as the AT4053b and can tell you that the AT4053b picks up much less room ambience. It was immediately noticeable to me when I made the switch to the Audio Technica.
@@curtisjudd @Matt Crum -- to reduce the side/rear pickup, would it help to place a sleeve of acoustic foam around the shotgun, separated by a few inches of space (similar to the concept of Kaotica eyeball, but physically longer)?
I don't hear a huge difference in this environment but in my own experience with more challenging environments I find the AT4053b to be a better choice than the NTG3 I own. Both are great but since I work indoors more often I use the AT4053b a lot more.
I used to be subscribed to your channel, then unsubscribed when I stopped caring about the technical aspect of content creation and decided to just watch videos. But now that I own a decent camera, I'm to relearn everything I've forgotten, starting with audio.
Thanks for another interesting and useful episode. I learn a lot from your presentations, tests, and lessons. I'm subscribed to your RU-vid Channel, and curiously, lately I've been getting the email announcements of new episodes six days after you post something new. It seems like I used to get the announcements on the same day you put up something new.
Hi Curtis, I think this video is pretty great and also you've gained another subscriber. I have a quick question. I know you've done videos on lav mics and I agree with your choices, but what about the the Azden EX503? I hear its about the same price as the AT 3350 and it sounds much better. Also would you think it's good for a review?
Hi Curtis. What about doing a video on how to reduce echo from recordings, maybe techniques before recording or ways to help reduce it in post. I think that will help a lot of people who use shot gun mics indoors. I just bought the Rode NTG-1 so I hope I will not run into these issues.
Good idea--I think we'll have better luck covering what to do during production vs. post-processing because I haven't heard of a good way to remove the echo after-the-fact without messing pretty badly with the audio quality. But temporary sound treatment of the room is one thing I haven't done a lot of but may be a good future episode. Thanks!
Good comparison, listened to it with Sony MDR-V6 headphones, and trying to find a comment on the audio difference, the NTG-2 records a low end sound, hidden by your voice, noticeable between words, as an exaggeration since I can't seem to come up with the right word: There could be a person with a leaf blower far away outside your room. The AT4053b instantly drops that and it goes away.
I'd just about settled on picking up an NTG-2 for indoor talking head video (COMPLETE newbie here), but as we tend to record in less than ideal rooms acoustically, I'm thinking now about trying to find a hyper-cardioid. I heard the low-end sound, as well (which I haven't noticed in your other NTG-2 tests). I'm curious: do you happen to remember whether the NTG-2's high pass filter was on for this video (I realize fully that this was more than 2 years ago :-D). Thanks for all the amazing work! You're really and truly helping this utter novice move to a new level!
Hi John, you're right, I don't remember for certain from 2 years ago, but I can say that with the NTG2, I almost never turn on the high-pass filter so it is likely not on. Its distance from the talent is a big factor in the bass response backing away from the mic just a touch will reduce the bass response. You might find this review of 5 different boom mics for indoors useful: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-q-b_1gOYOEQ.html Best wishes!
Thanks! I think I've about landed on the Samson CO2s as a starter kit (especially since I found a set that includes two stands and two XLR cables for a great price). My assumption is that this will be a better/cheaper "out of the box" setup for videos in which we might have two speakers on screen, plus a backup's always nice. Thanks again!
Curtis Judd Very useful. I don't think echo was a major problem with either mike. I wonder, if you ever get the chance, to try them in a mall, or atrium or large tiled room? Somewhere with dramatically pronounced echo/reverb.
Mark Holme This was a medium sized hardwood floor room, so that's a start. I usually avoid shooting in highly reverberant rooms for the type of shoots I typically do (corporate talking head/interview). But if I do, I'll definitely post the results here.
Many thanks for the reply. I'll look out for it. I get what you mean though, its the way it handles the reverb - subtle, like the degree of slope used on a low of high pass filter :-)
Is there a clear distinction between a "shotgun" mic and a "hypercadioid"? I notice that the first line of description for the Audio Technica AT4053b at B & H is "The AT4053b from Audio-Technica is a professional-quality shotgun microphone ideal for field or studio use."
Good question, the distinction can be fuzzy. Technically we are comparing a shotgun mic with an interference tube design and a small diaphragm hypercardioid mic without an interference tube design. But that's quite a mouthful and most people refer to the two as shotgun and hyper. Technically, a shotgun mic can also have a hypercardioid pickup pattern so that is not the most accurate description for these mics. It is the interference tube that makes the difference here and why I think that the Audio Technica does a little bit better indoors than the RODE.
I have found your videos for linking video and audio extremely helpful! I have set out on a project to record my friend's band in concert. Using Nikon D7100 with Sennheiser MKE 600. There are large increases in dynamic range of instruments in a very echo-prone room. Looking forward to seeing the difference between the microphones, but could you test the max SPL for both mics?
Sounds like a fun project! I've done some recording of concerts. I usually try to find a way to get a feed from the soundboard and record directly into my Tascam. I'll see what I can do about testing max SPL. Normally I'm just recording dialogue with these mics so maybe I can find a friend that can lend me a really loud sound source like a band. ;-)
Tonight, I'm linking my Tascam dr-40 to the board via USB, but can I run XLRs at the same time? 4 channel mode? Trial and Error is how I work, but your videos are the best I have seen. Very enjoyable and great explanations.
Curtis Judd so I was able to test out the difference between the signal from the board via USB and just micing the speaker. Major difference! Like you found in previous episode, the feed from the board was too hot. I asked the electric guitarist how to get better sound. He mentioned placing a SM 57 in front of the speaker and run it to my Tascam Dr40. Better than expected!
Curtis Judd the tascam Dr40 was recording the speaker separately. I 'pluraleyed' the video and audio, and turned off the on camera mic audio in post. (which was awful). Are the Shure SM 57 and the AT 4053b both cardioid microphones?
for general usage, recording outside for better audio , like city sounds, steps, trees, wind, is a hypercardiod similar to shotgun? or shotgun has a longer range ?
The difference is subtle and requires good quality headphones in most cases. The audio switches from one mic to the other, never both at the same time. The point is that there isn't a huge difference when it comes to rejecting room reverb.
I'm looking for a solution for outdoor audio recording. I currently own the AT4053b which I use indoors but I'm looking for another mic for outdoor use. The MKE 600 caught my eye because of its quality and price. Would you recommend spending the extra money for another mic or do you think I'd cope outdoors with my AT4053b? Thanks.
A shotgun microphone like the MKE600 is a fine choice for outdoor use, but probably the most important thing is to include good wind protection for whichever microphone you end up using. The RODE blimp is a good place to start. Best wishes!
@@curtisjudd thanks. I've ordered the MKE600 with their stock dead cat so hopefully, that will suffice for most of my jobs. For extra windy shoots, I'd probably opt for a lav for the smaller footprint. Thank you for your help. Much appreciated! Best wishes.
It can be used outdoors but needs wind protection. This piece was recorded outdoors with the AT4053b: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-f6XtGVSibA8.html
Possibly, yes. The trick with cardioid lav mics, though, is that they tend to have this rather thin, mid-hyped sound which I don't love. From a practical point of view, however, they definitely reject more of the echo. I have a Audio Technica Pro70 cardioid lav that I may need to add to the test here. Thanks!
I think it depends on how much of an audiophile you want to be. If you're not all that hardcore, I'd just get a shotgun mic like the RODE Videomic Pro and the RODE VC1 extension cable so that you can get it close to whoever is speaking (it doesn't sound great when mounted on top of the camera): amzn.to/1AAgZtj amzn.to/1AAh4xj
Thanks! The GH4 is interesting--definitely has its good points, though it isn't perfect. Waiting for a Metabones Speedbooster to arrive so I can try my Nikon lenses on and see how that goes.
sir plz don't bother...... i have question in most echo rooms should i go to RODE NTG-2 OR Sennheiser ME66 - K6 - Super-Cardioid Microphone?????????? BECAUSE AUDIO TECHNICA AT4053b is so expensive................ if u recommend any other cheaper models of audio technica that will be okay for me..... thankyou!!!!!!!
Sennheiser ME-66 and K6. Note that ANY shotgun microphone can produce very odd phase/warbling sound if it is not aimed perfectly at the sound source (person talking). This is why shotguns are not usually the best choice for indoor dialogue recordings in reverberant spaces. Good luck.
@@Shatavartverma It is a shotgun microphone with a supercardioid polar pattern. That is the same as the NTG2 but the Sennheiser puts out a much stronger audio signal.
It depends on how you want to do it. I almost always record my audio separate from the camera into a dedicated audio recorder then sync the audio to the video in editing. If you are going to record directly to your GH4 (and you do not have the $2000 USD add-on unit), then you need a microphone with a mini jack plug (3.5mm TRS plug). The RØDE Video Mic Pro is a popular choice: www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/744768-REG/Rode_VIDEOMIC_PRO_VideoMic_Pro_Compact_Shotgun.html/BI/19904/KBID/12941/kw/ROVMP/DFF/d10-v2-t1-xROVMP Here are some videos covering audio for cameras like the GH4 in more depth. I hope that helps! ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-f8wan7tZu_I.html
+MySchizo Buddy I've just added the RE20 to the list (I have one that I use for some of my voice overs). I don't have access to a 320 but we can start with the 20.
would it be okay to record using a senheiser 416 indoors for dialogue since its a shotgun mic or is it better to get 4053b over the 416 for that purpose?
I would say that is a guideline and not a rule. It depends on the room you'll be shooting in. If it has a lot of reverb, you will probably have fewer phase and comb filtering issues with a cardioid than with a shotgun. But if you're on a sound stage, a shotgun is probably fine. Also, there's the Sennheiser MKH 50 to consider, which is Sennheisers indoor dialogue mic.
I can't really hear a difference, does that means I have to change my headphones or my ears? Ps. I'm not an audio expert, just starting out by grasping concepts
The fact is that the vast majority of people listen to stuff (even Hollywood films) over the internet with poor audio equipment, so you're better off just buying a cheap mic, because no one's going to be able to tell the difference anyway. If you're making RU-vid videos on your own in your bedroom, without much knowledge of mic placement and sound proofing and the like and no knowledge of sound editing, that are then going to be compressed to hell and back by RU-vid and then streamed over the internet for people to listen to on cheap earphones and computer speakers, the difference between a bad mic and a good mic will be entirely unnoticeable.
i am really confused with all the terms now, i thought the term "shot gun mic" is a gerneral term for all mics with small pick up pattern, which can be line, super - or hyper cardioid. same with boom - mic which can be used for any characteristics.
Shotgun mics have an interference tube design - several inches of slits in the tube of the microphone. Technically it is a bit more involved than that but hopefully that helps a bit.
I like doing on location commentaries when making my weekly blog postings. In the winter, the weather forced me inside and I faced many challenges with indoor locations. Using a H4n Zoom recorder and a XLR wired Lavaliere mic, I tried to address these conditions but with little success. Part of the problem being that I still wanted to include the local sounds to maintain the realness of the location shot. With the warmer weather, I have now moved outdoors and use historical buildings as backdrops for each posting. With a Rode camera mounted mic, I am achieving much better results. Nevertheless, I still need to master the indoor location shots. I now believe that part of the part is no fully understanding how to use the Zoom H4n field recorder. I have searched the web and there really isn't much in-depth material on using the recorder and its different settings. Would it be possible to explore the Zoom recorder in greater detail? Thanks Chris Erskine chriserskineartist@gmail.com @erskinec
Hi Chris, I'd like to do that and it may be possible if I get my hands on an H4n but I probably won't spend my money on one, just because I've found that there are much better options out there these days in terms of clean pre-amps with more gain. But if I can borrow one, I'll look at putting together a walkthrough of the settings I find that work well for various situations.
These mics both need power and only the RODE NTG-2 Shtogun has a battery compartment for power. Technically you could get an XLR to 3.5mm adapter but my experience with that type of adapter isn't great. I'd recommend the RODE Videomic Pro instead, which is made for connecting directly to a camera like the 70D: amzn.to/128aIdx
Curtis Judd Thanks for the reply! The link for the video Rode Video Mic Pro! I heard a lot of bad reviews and heard audio from that mic connected to a DSLR and the quality was bad. At least what I heard of it. I own a Tascam Dr-40 which I can plug in a Rode ntg 2 to, but was just wondering if it could connect directly to the camera if need be. I am still learning the usage of the Tascam Dr-40 as it has a lot of features.
Flightguy69 Ah, I see. If the DR-40 has a 3.5mm line out, you could feed that to your Canon. That way the Tascam acts as your pre-amp but the audio gets recorded with your video so you don't have to sync in post. I did something similar in this previous episode: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-zRahG9r7WmE.html
Curtis Judd When I bought the Tascam Dr-40 it came with Plural Eyes which is a fantastic program to auto sync the recorded audio on the Tascam SD card when not connected directly to the DSLR. However I am using a cheaper rode mic as of now and wanted to get a better mic.
@Curtis Judd Haha thanks :) I'm trying to decide what solution to go with for 2 person interviews. I usually shoot talking heads of 1 person at a time, and tend to use a wireless lav mic for that (EW100 G3). Now I need to get 2 of the same mics for a series of 2 person interviews that are both in the UK and abroad (so getting another G3 isn't an option because the other countries use different frequencies). I was going to get a couple of Rode Wireless Go + Rode Lavalier Go sets because I can use these abroad no problem, but then I came across your videos about Cardioid, Super-Cardioid and Hyper-Cardioid mics. Now I am not sure whether to get the two Rode Wireless Go + Rode Lavalier Go sets or get two used AKG SE300B with CK93 capsules and just do everything wired. The thought of setting up two boom mic stands doesn't really appeal to me though, especially when I am shooting with 4 cameras with 1 other operator and need to monitor sound myself. Not sure what the right choice would be :/
Curtis Judd Thanks :) Would you say the Go is “trustable” interference wise if used in a dual transmitter & dual receiver interview setup in an office building?
Yeah, its definitely not much difference when in that close on the talent. Strangely I could hear more difference in my studio monitors than with my headphones. Usually it is the opposite--can hear more with the headphones.
