Ironically, the whoosh and the clickity clack is what I like about about MRR. I really like the sound of just hearing a long train running in circles as it reminds me of my first trains as a child. On my T-Trak module with Kate Unitrack, I built up the ground to the level of the track around the siding. But I left the raised look for the mainlines.
That's hilarious you said that because it reminds me of that too. Now, that sound definitely is related to your train speed. My trains will never go fast enough to even start to make that sound. Thanks for checking out the video Heath. Take care!
Loved the intro Benny. I use sheet cork on areas where there are buildings to be placed and yards but only use the roadbed in open areas where it is generally scenic. Thank you for sharing your thoughts.
Cork for roadbed is a good idea for main line trackage especially if you are using foam as your main layout deck. A 4x8 sheet of foam with track laid directly on it make a nice LOUD drum head. Adding the cork helps to reduce that drumming noise. Foam works best if supported from below with some plywood, thickness of your choosing. That also helps to tamp down the drumming. Switching areas that are normally slow speed areas on a model railroad don't benefit as much from the use of cork to dampen sound. One other point about using cork and foam, plan to glue the cork to the foam and the track to the cork. Each layer of adhesive also tends to dampen the sound and also holds the cork+track structure in place better. Why worry about the sound of drumming? If you have sound in the engines you are running, it is more brilliant in sound if it is not competing with an uncontrolled or unplanned background noise. The sounds you want work better if applied against silence. As for the visual nature of cork road bed, look to your prototype. You may find that the standard thickness cork used with HO track is not actually as thick as your prototype's road bed. You may need to add thickness beyond the usual 5mm or "1/4 inch" (which is really now days only 3/16") to your track structure. Also, remember to sand the cork road bed to smooth it our before laying track. Sand the edges of the roadbed profile too so that you don't have cork showing through the ballast when you finally put that down. One final tip: when laying cork road bed, don't end both sides of the road bed strips at the same place. Have them lap each other. You will find this helps you create smooth curves and also would create as many humps in the road bed you will need to sand away. If working with HO flex track, over lapping the rail joints has a positive effect on laying track helping to keep track kinks out of your work.
In really hot climates ie( Western Australia) unless your layout is in a steady temperature room the foam can shrink or expand a bit depending on heat (38-45 degrees Celsius) and the ballast starts to crack off…. Something which I’m discovering other people are experiencing in extreme temperature countries which leads me back to using cork again.
Thanks for your POV on this, it helped me with my decision. Just getting back into the hobby after 40 yrs off. I've planned but not built my layout yet. To me, the 4-5 mm thick cork for HO looks almost unrealistically tall. I'm planning to use cork, but found a happy medium: I've bought 2 mm thick rolls from an arts & crafts store. Half of my layout is modeling a CSX yard and sidings in my area. The whole DCC control & sound thing was a major surprise when I discovered that - I had old Tyco DC stuff when I was a kid! Already bought an NCE Power Cab and 2 Walther engines w/ DCC & sound.
Cork or other roadbed insulates the sound until you add ballast and the noise returns. Agree with you on adding it purely as roadbed to simulate the ballasted areas.
Thanks Leslie, Andy Crawford also has publicly stated this, and I actually agree with you guys. Something that was brought to my attention and I definitely noticed it, is when others and myself added the facia. This actually amplified the sound under the layout like a sound box. I'm wondering if when I add the skirting, if it will help muffle down the sound. Should be interesting.
I see you are a man of culture with the ore cars in the the background! Great video. I've been thinking about the use of roadbed between scenic mainline runs versus none while in a yard setting. I'm glad to see others out there thinking about it as well.
Great info. Transition is everything. Big difference between mainline and sides/industries. That’s a big one that is a game changer even before laying track.
In the good ole days of non-sound locos with open-frame motors, mounting your track directly to plywood was equivalent to building a loudspeaker. Traditionally Homosote was used as a subroadbed to address that issue (the Homosote product is now marketed specifically as a sound barrier), plus it was great for spiking down track. Cork roadbed was primarily used to provide the ballast profile, although using just the cork between the track and plywood would help reduce the resonant noise. Today with so many people using extruded foam for their benchtop, along with the volume level of the on-board simulated sounds, the sound isolation argument mostly falls by the wayside. Just my opinion. Art...
You brought up a fantastic point Art. And it's something I should have mentioned, which is sub- roadbed. I have a friend that did all foam benchwork and really regrets it because he says it is super loud. You don't hear of homasote to often anymore and personally I think it's one of the best choices. We still use it at work actually. Another one you dont hear of often anymore is spline sub roadbed.
@@CreativeRails I have N scale cork over 1" foam on my HOn30 modules, over which I have hand laid track. I've found the combination to be very noisy, especially compared to commercial flextrack, over cork over plywood sub-roadbed... Several years back there was an article in Model Railroader where the author did extensive testing of roadbed materials to produce the quietest combination. The author found that self adhesive foam "camper tape" was the quietest roadbed material, applied over caulk, with the flextrack adhered to the top with caulk. Much quieter than all other combinations of roadbed. I personally never liked homasote... Too messy to saw cut and not all that quiet. It's as absorbent as a sponge, which isn't desirable either. Enjoyed your video...
All good points, and when you do find something that keeps the sound or vibration of metal wheels rolling on metal track, you end up right back at the beginning by using glue to hold ballast in place. IMHO
Model railroads do predate cheap foam board. Rail on plywood is really loud, and harder to nail in than a cork roadbed. It also gave a nice ballast profile and cork is relatively cheap.
Love your theories and explainations on roadbed why's or why nots... New sub and will be looking through your videos for more "outside the boxcar" ideas!!!
Cork is needless today unless no ddc and sound used, orher then roadbed profile. As you state. I also do not use any on my yard or industry spurs to follow prototype. Very well said and good info. Also guys like Ken Patterson have been laying track directly on 2 inch foam and shaping the roadbed into it. Also for a money saving tip I do not use cork road bed, to pricey for what it is. I order rolls of 4ml cork from Amazon and cut my strips from that or larger sections where needed. I also find if you use latex or silicon cocking as your adhesive for the cork it has better sound deadening properties as the cork stays more flexible where it meets the layout benchwork.
Great tips and points Peter! I didn't realize Ken Patterson did his roadbed like that. That's how I did that last diorama. I was thinking of doing that between Park Head and Shallow Lake on the second level. Thanks so much for checking out the video and commenting!
I like to use Bachman's track in the background and hidden areas because of the sound. Makes a pleasant whoosh and a perfect clickty clack. Cork also has a job to do in ballast roadbeds and evening-out little variations. Once the cork is set, I run a plainer over a few times. Never even considered not using cork. I'll have to think that one over.
Good video....lot of good points....like modern day trains are 50 times heavier than the trains in the 50's, so more built up road bed....for stability....but you are correct era really depicts what the track should look like...
Got yourself a new subscriber. Excellent video. Well thought out and presented. I personally like to use cork roasted because I hand lay all my track using individual ties with hand spiked rail. I find ties glue to cork holds the spikes more firmly, plus it allows for expansion and contraction of the rail.
In Australia, mimicking our railways, road bed is necessary at stations, and not necessary in goods yard. So what I am doing, is to have the road bed effect at the station, and under the yard tracks so they are the same level, but give the effect of no road bed in the yards. Our trains here are slightly raised above the platform so you have to step up to enter the train, 3mm thick cork does this beautifully as long as you don't have cork under the platform.
Haha nice one. Thanks for that you little thespian 😂. I’m just getting into the new Hornby TT120 where the trains make their own individual sounds and are controlled by Bluetooth using a smartphone/tablet. Cool. Your video has helped me immensely as I now realise these trains will mask a lot of the background running noise that sounds like a skateboarder 😂 So I’m thinking of laying a thin layer of cork board over the entire baseboard and then on top of that laying individual track bed of cork or something 😊 I like the idea of other sounds. Like bells from a church the birds chirping kids playing in a park. 👌 Muchas Gracias mr Bard 😅
Well not necessarily Sparky, especially in my area. That's why I did it the way I did. As a general rule of thumb you are absolutely correct. But it's not always like that. That's why I say to follow the prototype and photographs.
Alas! Looks like poor Yorrick! Did you know him well? Seriously though, I’m using cork for my main line, which would presumably be well ballasted for proper drainage. My sidings and branch lines will either get no cork, or 1/8 inch stuff if I can find some.
thank, you for youre helpful video.👍 starting my second ho- scale train layout. i, have never used cork roadbed before. but on my second train layout im. going to use cork roadbed for sure this time. thank, you again.👍👍
I wouldn't call the opening weird Ben - you can't go wrong with the Bard! Great points on cork, especially the comments on roadbed. On the sound control - I agree and disagree. I'm a big fan of controlling sound - I'm not trying to make a quiet railroad as that doesn't make a lot of sense prototypically. The problem for me is when we scale our trains down, the sound doesn't scale the same way and it introduces strange qualities to the sound produced. These qualities, IMHO, take away from the train and ambient sounds. I think it's more of a balance between dampening the sounds (not silencing them) and still keeping the overall ambience. BTW, I love the clickity-clack of steel wheels on steel rail. Great video, thanks Benny. Best, John
Very true John and very good points. I think you nailed it on the head when you said finding the balance. Thanks for checking out the video. Talk soon!
It isn’t train noise, road bed is all about an acoustic barrier between the trains and the wood of the benchwork. Without the acoustic barrier you hear the wood reverberating not the lovely sound of the wheels. Good video, Rob
I model in HO scale, started layout #6 about 9 years ago and the base is 3/4" plywood and 1/2" Homesote. There is zero noise except my layout is modular so there are lots of 'clickity-clacks'. On previous layouts I used plywood and cork, or foam sheets (which reflected and amplified all noise) The foam was removed in short order as a 'FAIL". I am considering layout #7 because I want to double track the main (195 ft) and use N scale cork on the main to visually represent the 'high iron'. But, how did you transition from cork to no cork, as in main to non-cork sidings?
Et tu Ben? Great intro! Great video too. I totally goofed on my sidings. I put cork down when I shouldn’t have. Oh well. I’ll know for my next layout. ;)
Thanks Mark! But there really is no right or wrong here. If you dont want to show an elevation on your sidings then just blend it out with some base scenery of your choice. Most people on here will actually commend you for the way you did it! Take care!
I'm not using cork. Most of my layout is on pink insulation foam. My thought is to carve small ditches where I want them. Also a great portion is running through a town and switching spurs/ sidings. That being said, thete are some spots I probably should have used it. But, live and learn and I'm happy with it. Good video, thanks for posting.
Since my new layout will be mostly modern era i'll use foam roadbed on all my mainlines, sidings and spurs. Nothing in the staging yard and some industries. Good advice though.
Ha ha nice intro, Ben. I’d rather not have the road bed even for non cork. I’m stuck with Bachmann tracks now can’t start over with something different. Very nice video. Thanks for sharing. Take care.
Sean - Questions for you: Where did you find your Canadian National brown & white Stock/Cattle boxcar, C.N. 151142? Do you have a good website for Canadian National stock/loco's?
You forgot that back then it was O scale and just getting into HO and smaller scales. O scale is very load just do to the mass. N scale does not have the mass needed to make those vibrations that turn into sound. I operate on a 2 rail o scale layout and just the metal wheels in a15 car train are extremely loud.
You just reminded me Eric, of a show I went to about a year ago. There were some vintage 3 rail O Scalers there with around five trains flying around at once. You could hear those things flying from the other side of the building. You would never be able to quiet them down lol!😂
It depends on the scale for N I have to use roadbed to mate up with the height of tomix track. For HO since I prefer a trains vs house, where the railroad has to operate with the challenges of the space, moving though cabinets and around furniture as well as being impermanent, I don't want to glue down road bed.
Thank you for your great video on the subject of "To Use Roadbed or Not To Use Roadbed" and also upon the subject of sound. - In all actuality, and reality as a rail-fan, and sitting around watching trains in real life over the years, I have never known any trains that I have watched in real life, or on TV, or even in the movies not making sounds from the wheels as they travel along the rails, especially when they are traveling at any reasonable rate of speed. That's a fact of life just as tires on all automobile vehicles make humming sounds upon the pavement as they travel along the roads and highways. So, why would you want to deaden the sounds of model trains traveling along the rails on a model railroad, especially if you're striving for more realism ? - Basically, deadening the sound of the model trains traveling along the model railroad layout would only take away from the realism you've been trying to acheive, and of which you've strived so hard to achive in adding more realism in all the rest of your scenery. - But to each his own. After all, it is "Your Model RailRoad layout " to do with in whatever fashion you, yourself want and desire.
