The funny thing about Lost World is the fact its 3DS version *brought back* the Elemental Shields after Generations (PC/Console) did so for Classic Sonic. So because it wasn't really mentioned, the Elemental Shields in Generations (PC/Console) work *almost* identically to their original counterpart. The Bubble Shield, with the right set-up, can just send you flying straight into the stratosphere, *skipping* entire chunks of levels. Seaside Hill is the most well known example if you want proof. The Thunder Shield is kinda underwhelming with its double jump feeling weak, but still usable nonetheless. And the Flame Shield still has its moments but definitely shines in Crisis City. Now, in Lost World 3DS the Elemental Shields exist and do have their main gimmicks, but lack the extra moves due to Sonic have 2/3rds of their ability. An infinite bounce with a boosted height after every third bounce and a double jump that barely qualifies as such. But like I said, they still have their *main* gimmick. The Bubble Shield still prevents you from drowning while the Thunder Shield and Flame Shield prevent their respective elements from damaging you. Also, oddly enough, the Wii U/PC version has Shields... They just don't appear in actual levels all that often. (At least that's what I think, could be wrong though.) The basic shield and Thunder Shield are all you can obtain on Wii U/PC, but with an extra benefit! You see, equipable items in Wii U/PC have four levels or "Stars" in-game. The more stars, the more affective the item is. I... Unfortunately can't list an example off the top of my head because it's been *that long* since I've played the Wii U version of Lost World. All I can safely say is Rings give out *a lot more* at 4 stars compared to the default 1 star. So in an odd way the upgrade system did return in Lost World... just not with Sonic himself receiving them though.
A few things not mentioned here: Shadow's solo game actually had enough new shield in form of the heat barrier which hurts enemies near Shaodw. The Elemental Shields did return for Generations they just aren't in any main stages they are in a few missions and can be bought to start a stage with in the item shop Generations Item shop system that had its roots in Secret Rings was also entirely not mentioned Unleashed also has other pick up items in the Werehog stages most noticeable being temporary damage and defense ups. Technically does Frontiers have upgrades as 3 of the abilities are obtained by freeing Tails, Amy and Knuckles respectively.
I miss the items from back then, ever since the boost era sonic just needed boost, no invincibility, no speed shoes, no electric shield like in sa1 or at least normal shield….. nothing….. they need to bring those back Edit: they should also bring back upgrades like lightspeed dash and such, maybe bring back the bounce and others
Lightspeed dash is a base ability usable in frontiers. No need for bounce to come back when its also a stomp now and is better. Most of the other stuff isn't needed nor was it useful in the first place. Frontiers has the best moveset for sonic in a game imo.
@@dave9515 agreed, you could also argue that most of his shield abilities have been integrated into his Frontiers movement too. (Stomp/Bounce for Bubble Shield, Double Jump for Electric Shield, and Air Dash for Flame Shield) So most of his abilities are there
I mean invincibility is still in sonic games, speed shoes, and shields too. I feel sonic naturally having these abilities in his kit is better than them being power ups
I don't like the idea of capping players on their moveset options when it could be obtainable at the start. Just keep the frontiers style which gives sonic all his old abilities and you can just enjoy moving around outside of some in a skill tree like spindash. Mario Odyssey did the same thing minus an unlockable move and final horizon skill tree stuff. upgrades and tv monitors aren't necessary for sonic. Also bounce bracelet sucks imo.
I like what you suggested towards the end, Why can't we have both? Adventure series has both. Can even do cool stuff like stacking power ups with upgrades. Like having bubble bounce enhance the bounce bracelet. Or lighting shield give a triple jump to sonic. Can even add the level up system from heroes along with this idea. Even adding the skill tree from Frontiers. I think it can even work well with cosmetics and customization (with mainline characters).
Adaptive Upgrades. Sonic finds basic forms of those in a hub area, brings them to the linear stages (Cyber Space), and improves them bit by bit while collecting power-ups split apart by different routes. Picked all the Magnet Shields in a stage, Rank S, and a handful of rings? => Bam! Left sneaker slot 1 - Double Jump; Right sneaker slot 2 - better Light Dash; Talisman slot 3 - Shock Shield! Not your cup of tea? Want improved Air Dash instead? Just hop into previous Cyber Space for the improvements refund and respec a reward to your liking, if you capable to fill the requirements.
I want sone form of capsules of rings and shields in a Frontiers sequel... And give us more collectables around the open zones...it would be fun to find more and more of them in minutes
Both. This isn´t a mutually exclusive subject. The adventure games or 06 are good examples. In fact I kinda hate how recent games are ditching items and relegating them to just classic Sonic. It's specially evident in Frontiers, which bases its ranks solely on time, which makes all the side paths of the games the levels are based on, completely pointless since they are empty and devoid of items. EDIT: Also, Lost World has shields. Idk why you say it doesn't.
Alright let me name some of the item boxes and capsules off of the top of my head, because other than the main ones there are a couple exclusive to battle mode like In sonic the hedgehog 2 or Sonic 3d blast. that be it if they are actually items to help and or harm I think they should count for being in the capsules. So I am just adding the ones that introduce new concepts to the series. Sonic the hedgehog 1 & CD: ring box shield box Speed box life box invincibility box (*Note* needs to comeback since this was technically the 2nd strongest item in the series) Sonic the hedgehog 2: Mystery box (get a random item) Legendary S box (immediately get all 7 Chaos emeralds and become super) swap item box (in battle mode you can swap positions of your rival where ever they're are. which sucks because if you are in the lead you could potentially give them the win) Sonic 3 and Knuckles: Elemental shields box Robotnik box (when open makes player lose all their rings) Sonic 3d blast: Orange shield box (grants sonic the homing attack) Knuckles Chaotix: Grey shoes box (slows you down) Up arrow box (makes the player bigger, slower, and have a bigger hitbox to enemies as well as making it harder to progress through the level) Down arrow box (Makes you smaller, slipper and allows you to squeeze in tight narrow spaces) Blue ring box (clumps all your rings together so when you get hit all the rings become medium sized so when you pick them up each ring gives you a better portion of how much you collected) Sonic Adventure & Sonic Adventure 2: Magnet shield capsule (collects rings while also taking a hit but you can't double jump like the electric shield can) bomb capsule (only appears in SA2, when broken this capsule will destroy all enemies on screen. In short it is the hyper sonic flash attack but in a box) Sonic heroes: Energy cores (based on which color your team gets an upgrade over time of the level which enhances their abilities and moves Blue=speed yellow=flight and red=power) (*Note* I loved this concept and the fact that Sega has Kinda showed homage to this I really love. in the riders series and Team sonic racing each character has their own type while the riders keep it the same Team sonic racing turns the flight types (Tails, Eggman, Rouge, Silver, and Choa) into technique types, meaning they can go into off road sections on the map. They also brought back the cores in the IDW bad guys comics when Starline used them to create the energizer core. I would loved to see this item comeback.) Sonic Colors: Wisp (do they count? idk) Sonic mania: Character icon box (In encore mode their is a box that allows you to collect more character to swap from, the swap box comes back to swap characters continually through out the stages) Sonic Superstars: Magnet box (probably the worse iteration of the magnet item ever. When opened you collect rings from farther away just like the electric and magnet shield. Nothing new until you get hit. when hit it DOESN'T act like a shield and protects you. Instead your rings goes flying and guess what, YOU LOSE THE POWER UP. At that point you might as well would have just added the old shields again) I think that is all the items, idk I am just remembering off of my head.
Both. To be more precise: skill tree/stat leveling/equipment upgrades for all the action in the Open Zone fields, along with equippable, useable items a la Kingdom Hearts to give yourself an edge in combat or out in the field as well as randomly dropped items from defeated enemies and found in treasure chests & dig spots. No or only minimal upgrades carrying over into the “Cyberspace” stages in order to make those remain tests of old school platforming skill but allow the presence of power ups laid out within those stages and even take their use into account in ranking systems.
I like upgrades more than power ups. But I think it’s best when they include power ups with upgrades, And for future sonic games, if they do the open zone style, they can add power ups to cyberspace since most of your upgrades mean nothing in that part of the game
I kinda miss the balance that Sonic adventure 1&2 did for both items and upgrades. You find upgrades to make some stages easier or to complete a challenge without compromising the use for items you find along the way.
Both. Having power ups adds verity to how you play a level and permanent upgrades make you feel like you're getting more powerful. In other words advnture, adventure 2 and 06 did it best.
Eggman leaving powers ups seems fitting cause he seems like he'd be too cocky that his bots could defend his gear he stashed away and id like if they came back. And sonic finding really comfy sneakers in the sewers is something i cant hate. Sometimes a wellworn shoe is one already worn.
I guess, but I chose not to include them since you have to buy them in order to use them I just wanted to talk about the ones you see while playing through the game
@@johnathonturner2279 well the reason for that is because in 06 you have to use the upgrades in order to progress and it’s part of the main game in gens it’s optional and also not needed at all so I left those out for that also I frankly forgot to mention them and didn’t bother adding them
@@Supercon613 It neglects the fact that there are optional upgrades even in Adventure and Frontiers. And if you just forgot, I would honestly say that just makes this entire video poorly written.
For the base game: no doubt, items. No upgrades. Upgrades in a base game belong in a RPG game, not in an action game. No RPG in action games, 99% of the times it is cheap and only functions as padding For extra replayability: MAYBE a skill shop like Gens. But just with moves that don't affect the base moveset. For example: double jump, sidestep while skating, infinite boost gimmick, things like that BUT NO RPG ELEMENTS
@@johnathonturner2279 They just lock your moveset artificially, you think you like them because they give you 'more to do', but in reality is just a time waster that limits the moveset that the devs designed for the combat
@@alescano3504 Given how easy it is to un lock everything, I'd say that's hardly an issue. I don't know your stance on them, but the same logic could be applied to the upgrades from Adventure. I also feel like your ignoring the reward aspect. RPD elements often serve as good reason to actually do certain things, like fighting random enemies, or more relevantly, doing random strewn puzzles.
@@johnathonturner2279 I'll answer point by point: 1) If you are praising an RPG system for how easy it is to unlock things, then it might as well not be there at all. 2) For the Adventure games. In the case of Adventure 1, the upgrades are situational and do not affect the core gameplay, you can play smoothly w/ them. Like the extra abilities in Gens, I think they are okey if they add very secondary or situational movements or alternate movesets. In the cas of Adventure 2, the light speed dash and the bounce are not situational, and i think it would be nice to have them from the beggining
Last, for the reward aspect: if you enjoy a part of the base moveset as a reward for doing tasks that deviate from the core gameplay (which requires that basic moveset) then you enjoy the real gameplay being kept away from you with fetch quests. The opposite would be giving you an expansive moveset and challenging you with it to beat the game, like reaching a boss arena, speedruning a stage, and so on
