Should Sur-Rons be Allowed on MTB Trails? 

I think we should also form a national emoto coalition, so we can organize, speak with one common voice, and petition legislative change. Reach out to the dealers and manufacturers, and make them part of the effort.

I get all the arguments for class 3 ebikes (Sur Ron.) I ride mtb, emtb and Emoto. I think it’s important to respect the wishes of the trail stewards/ trail builders. What we think is irrelevant. Bottom line is most of us don’t put in the work to build these trails so it’s best to respect the wishes of the people that do. Let’s be respectful human beings and honor their wishes. As Sur Ron riders we need to seek out the proper channels, government, city, municipalities and organizations to pursue trail usage in the future.

I think the adoption of single direction trails solve a lot of the safety issues that stem from multiple platforms sharing space.

I believe courtesy is the key to trail sharing. When you see a rider on a pedal only mountain bike, no e motor stop and give them all the right away. Don’t give them any ammo to get them to want to take access away.

You are making all excellent points.

As an mtb guy, type of trail would matter for sure. Dirt bikes will rut up certain trails if tires are spinning causing erosion. Really should ride with the direction of everyone else for safety. If the surron folks want to ride in more areas, come do some trail work and some advocacy for your sport. At the moment, most surron folks rebel run mtb trails harming any relationship that could be made.

I like your take on this, it's really well-thought-out. I'd like to hear your thoughts on the sprocket change (think you mentioned you're running a 56 tooth now) and more thoughts on rough range estimates from actual singletrack trail riding like you've been doing

In the United States, Class 1 e-bikes can reach speeds of up to 20 mph (32 km/h), but require the rider to pedal to engage the motor. Class 2 e-bikes can reach similar speeds but have an additional hand throttle, meaning they can be ridden like motorbikes and do not require pedal input to activate the motor (though most also have pedal assist systems to function like Class 1 e-bikes). Class 3 e-bikes are similar to Class 2 e-bikes, except that they can reach higher speeds of up to 28 mph (45 km/h). The new law allows all three classes of e-bikes to ride on cycling trails in national parks, though Class 2 and Class 3 e-bikes are not allowed to use the throttle control. Those e-bikes must be pedaled like standard Class 1 e-bikes while on national park trails.

I agree things definatly are changing and we need to re-evaluate what works where and when. Good arguments, especially about the rider weight, I'm a slim 140, a lot of mtb riders with bike would weigh more than me on a sur ron.

been riding my surron around the trails here in la. that said, i think you should need a license to ride on the trails, and to get a license you need to complete 5 hours of trail maintenance. that’s way you’re more aware of the impact you’re having, and some of the increased wear and tear will be offset by the maintenance hours

That’s cool.. I am also planning to get one but the problem is you are riding on a single track! Dh single track you definitely looking for trouble!

colorado has nice trail setup - Co Trex app shows where U can ride by vehicle/ hiking / horse etc

Great content

I think that we can use terms like, "As long as wen don't cause damage" and some of us will mean it. However, there are always those people who ruin it for everyone. When I was younger, as long as we didn't ride our dirt bikes on the street, no one hassled us on the trails... Now on the east coast, tough to find places to ride unless you want to travel a couple hours.

The same could be said in an urban environment can ebikes use the bike lane bike path public parks etc

snowboarding still isnt allowed at some resorts.... food for thought.

I remember a time when ski resort wouldn’t let us snowboard. But after time and a lot more people having them things have changed I think the same will happen with these E bikes.

Such a sick trail!

I'm gonna sub to you guys because I agree with all that you said. But one reason I thought about was if your riding the sur ron up a mountain bike path and an unsuspecting biker is coming down, he will be totally of gaurd and it will scare them badly. I do believe that this is one of the reasons why they argue against ebikes so much. Not just terrain getting tor up but that too. Im with you 💯 and I will be getting a sur ron very soon and I hope I don't have to deal with all the hate that it brings. But I will be riding more on the streets here in Pennsylvania for the time being. I can't wait to see what you guys have in store on this channel

We can do it in MN as long as you keep it 20mph and under, its a class 2 E-bike here

A size class is definitely needed for evs stuff like an assisted bicycle and the small surrons say under 120 pounds or so on stuff like an alta electric dirt bikes should stay on dirtbike trails with some exceptions like cross country where noise would be an issue and a whole new set of urban trails could be set up due to electric being quiet.

I live in Oregon and I'm thinking about getting one of these soon. How do other riders react to you on OHV trails or at the dunes? Do you get any hate because it's electric and is it a safety issue because other riders can't hear you coming?

I concur with the need for a new classification. Otherwise we need to start making our own trails.

i am an avid dirt bike and mtb rider. mtb advocacy took years to fight off the sierra club types. mixed use trails where hikers and horses are allowed. and even to get (legal)mtb specific trails took years of work with working with local governments, volunteer trail building etc. so to try and lump motorized vehicles such as e bikes in with that isn’t fair to those who put in all the effort to get them going. eventually you will have some less conscientious e riders tearing it up on trails shared by hikers and horses and give everyone on wheels a worse reputation. the greenies have a lot more sway in land use decisions than the bike riders do. i agree with the case by case basis thing however. maybe the e bike people could start doing their own advocacy and volunteer work to get trails built that work well for them.

MTB riders are territorial because they volunteer for trail maintenance at their local trails. So I understand not wanting e-bikes on the trails. It absolutely does more damage to trails. Also, while a lot of trails are either direction, most MTB riders choose the direction that isn’t mostly uphill. Now people on e-bikes are going the opposite direction (uphill) much more often, which makes chances of collision more likely. You gotta ask yourself, why are motorcycles not allowed on these trails? It’s not because of the noise, it’s because of the same reasons e-bikes shouldn’t be allowed(too much power) They can damage the trail much more. Just because you aren’t damaging the trails on your e-bike, doesn’t mean others won’t. Also, mountain bike trails are built specifically for mountain bikes, by people who started an organization to get it done. If you want motorbike trails, then start an organization and get some trails built for motorbikes and quit whining.

Earn your turns!!!! Sur Ron is a game changer! I ride Dh enduro and DJ’s and this is the best!

theres actually a provision on some state trails that says they have to allow people to use electric assist if they have a disability so they are allowed in some cases also a lot of times if your not being a idiot they wont say nothing its when you speed past mtb riders that they get pissed

Rock and roll trails in Bend Oregon

Careful what you ask for, where I live, up to 750w ebikes are the same as mountain bikes but sur rons are motorcycles

Where is your timber bell?

I live in Portland but I've been riding the kitten been all over the place and people don't like it but I don't give a fuk I don't even got a pedal kit I'm not going to get one

4:03 and 5:18 - This is exactly what I would NEVER do as a (non motor) mountain bike rider; yield to a motorcycle pretending to be a mountain bike.

It's a matter of respecting other riders. When you blow past someone at 50 miles per hour they aren't gonna want you on the trail

An eBike, ridden respectfully, on a MTB trail, should be no more destructive. Here’s what I do so people view me better on an Ebike. Go slow, about the same speed you’d ride a MTB, easy in the throttle. Bonus tips: clean the trail and help maintain it. You wouldn’t believe how much they appreciate this one. We do this as a Onewheel group and it’s m sure it helps cyclists be more welcoming to us using the trails they’ve ridden for so long.

Allowed? What’s that even mean?

Is it stock?

Its weird as my old stealth bomber with the rear hub motor has superior traction to any MTB and never spun up. As for weight, well im a light rider so I think that offsets someone near twice my weight lol.

Live or die ride free

We all pay taxes, So we all have a say!

It’s a free world ride where u like imo

Watching your video, I see what the problem is. I have experience riding dirt bikes, DH bikes, mountain bikes. I'm older now (57 yrs). So I have a range of experience of age and machines. The problem I see is reaction time you have with oncoming traffic. Your approach time is way too fast and aggressive to oncoming traffic and unsuspecting traffic. Scares the crap out of alot of un experienced public. I don't see these machine compatible on single track type trails also occupied by peddlers or pedestrians. I think we need new trail systems for these machines, or sticking with dirtbike trails.

Early adoption pioneer days. I grew up thru the skis and snowboard deal. The skiiers aged out and snowboarding took over, now the snowboarders are aging out and it might be leveling out. I have zero numbers or any data. Just my opinion. Subbed liked and will be waiting and watching. Excellent content my bros.

"as they are only 110lb and don't have a combustion in the engine" but a mountain bike weighs maybe 30 max so when the trails are built for a 30 lb bike without a motor it just gives the builders more work, i think they should have multi use trails as you where riding on but on actual mountain bike trails no way

I totally agree It all depends on the trial. I think dirt bikes could be allowed on a lot more trails and they wouldn't even be noticed. In my local areas many mtb riders go to ohv areas because we have better flow than there mtb only areas. this is because we live in an arid area with hard pack so when we do get rain that ruts out the trails more than a dirt bike could ever do. while in the ohv areas dirt bike create berms and flow. I get dirt bikes wont be allowed many places because locals and governments just hate them. (big loud scary thing) But surrons are quite they don't have 50hp and they should be allowed on many areas where mtb are allowed. by adding directional trails I think fixes allot of problems. you have a hill that you think a dirt bike or surron will rut out make it only DH a dirt bike, surron and mtb will have the same effect. I get many of the oppositions to allowing dirt bikes but surrons are just as fast an ebike but get treated like a dirt bike.

my sur ron isnt banned anywhere. it has peddles, speed limited, throttle doesnt work in class 1 mode and the motor only assist if your peddling. if you peddle fast you go max limited speed, if you peddle slow it moves slow

Electric motorcycles do not belong on trails purposed for mountain bikes. Ride the trails purposed for motorcycles and atvs , seems simple enough.

How about we just stop telling everyone what they can and can’t do.

No combustion in the engine doesn't mean shit !! - it's still a motorized vehicle. Doesn't matter if someone figures out how to make it nuclear - it's powered independently from physcially peddaling.

These look like lots of fun, but all it's just an electric dirt bike so it should be allowed where dirt bikes are allowed.

seems kinda silly having uphill traffic on a downhill trail, no matter what your riding. we have built several trails and pit bike tracks, the surrons do ZERO damage. When I had my first ebike, majority of Mnt bikers hated them because it wasn't "true" mnt biking, Now they probably more popular than pedal bikes. Ebikes are here to stay. People aren't going to pay 10K for analog specialized mnt bike, when you can get a ebike for 4K, that will take you anywhere, damages nothing, and about anyone can have some form of entertainment on it. Sure it's stupid if some kid is riding it uphill on a down hill trail, no more stupid than if a bicycle goes up a downhill only trail. We see hikers on our motorcycle trails, who probably shouldn't be there, but ya know what.. I don't care who goes where, as long as everyone uses some good ole common sense, which is extremely Rare these days. Surrons ridden safely and at obviously slower speeds equal to what the bicycles do is virtually the SAME thing... Some people just lack common sense, I'd say 50% of these haters will have a surron or equivalent in the next few years. Some people have knee injuries, or limited time to enjoy activities, so the ebikes of any kind are great tools. it's the rider that makes the mistakes not the surrons or any other ebike. Don't even get me started on freaking side by sides taking over motorcycle trails and areas, it sucks, but you know what.. to each there own, I don't wine and cry about it.

combustion doesn't change speed or power. kinetic energy is related to velocity squared, and speed is more of a factor than mass.

I mean... you're kinda going uphill on a downhill trail... Which is kinda ironic considering what you're talking about.

When you ride a real bicycle, it keeps you so busy that there is no way to come up with so much bullshit.

Pedal assist is ok for a mtb - I love the Surron but it’s a motor bike 😢😹 - You can see that mtb and motorbike don’t mix. You will always feel like a dick. - of course a motor bike is better to ride up hill. Mountain bikers just don’t want their trails wrecked. How many times to say sorry? Nice bike though - ride a MTB and you’ll know the diff.

In belgium you are not allowed to go anywhere anymore on a moped type B, wich is how the surron gets registered. Its fucking insane. Bought this thing, cant ride it... except on road and main gravel roads. The fun stuff isn't allowed...

As a sur-ron owner and a mtber I have to say that letting sur-rons on mtb singletrack is nuts. a sur-ron is a motorcycle, capable of the same speeds you would ride a normal moto on singletrack. I ride single track on the sur-ron at about 20-35mph. You are talking about a speed difference of above 20mph - thats enough to kill someone. I sure as hell would not want riders on sur-rons charging mtb trails. Not to mention a sur-ron would absolutely destroy most normal mountain bike trails, especially if you ride a little faster. Right now lots of BLM areas and municipalities do not even allow pedal assist, which is not at all like a sur-ron, exactly because people on electric motos go where they should not.

If they trails are built well enough to not get super rutted by them then seems ine

of course they should be allowed - as long as you are courteous to slower riders. i mean most hardcore MTB will ride as fast as a surron can safely go on any dodgy part sanyway so whats the difference apart from a few extra kg's?!

People are starting to ride sur-rons on beach boardwalk paths now. I think what will happen is, someone will run over a kid and there will be bans all over. The 750watt rule is even going to probably get changed as so many people are totally irresponsible on paths doing 25mph next to people. I ride my 750w ebike with people, but I don't go near any real speed, i have a voltage reducer that i can drop the throttle max way down to 10% max. In Orange County CA, I cant ride my 750w on mountain paths. I got stopped by the park ranger last time i was out there. Oddly, the law here is, its ok as long as the path is paved. Its banned for "unpaved" trails in the county, which i find odd. Here you can ride anything at what they call OHV (Off Highway Vehicle) parks, which is where gas dirt bikes would ride. Given how totally irresponsible so many riders are, it seems like a ban is going to happen for 750w. The scooters caused a big uproar already. Its too hard to enforce 750w, so they will just ban all of it because you dont have to debate with the rider on the motor size which you can scratch off the motor. Wheelchairs and stuff would be exempt of course. It would be ideal if they assign some of these paths ok for at least 750w ebikes. Then we can have some fun on trails that are generally not used by hikers. You know the hikers will complain that they dont want the ebikers there. I think any real discussion would simply increase the number of places a Sur-ron would get banned, which would lump it in with gas dirt bikes. Nobody is going to say a 45mph bike is like a pedal bike, so it will just get banned if you have a debate. Its basically a moped. Nobody wants mopeds going up and down paths either, so there isn't much room to argue. Electric helps, but its the same from a danger perspective. If the path is designated for certain vehicles, thats totally fine. They just don't do that where I am.

Lol three mountain bikers disliked this video

ebikes do Way less damage than 4 wheelers / buggies - i rode Colorado for 3 months - close to 100% of trail damage done by dipshits on 4 wheelers On Purpose fking sad

An Electric Mountain Bike only assists you when you are pedaling, and stops assisting after 19 MPH. An Electric Motorcycle has a throttle, goes up to 50 MPH, weighs 2 to 3 times as much, uses Motocross tires... An EMTB is way closer to a Mountain Bike, and is designed for use on MTB trails. An Electric Motorcycle is way closer to a Motorcycle, and should be used on Motorcycle trails.

If it doesn’t have pedals it shouldn’t be on a MTB trail, it tears them up and ruins them for everyone, the same reason any motor vehicle isn’t allowed on MTB trails

Their problem is they don't have a motor an you do. So they get prissy because of their choice of two wheel fun.

Surrons destroy the trails and make them unusable for anyone but surron riders. They shouldn’t be allowed on mtb trails, but there should be designated public surron/ light moto trails

Skateboarding is not a crime.

Nope.

Sur-Ron's byline: Sur-Ron is a Chinese company that designs, develops and manufactures electric MOTORCYCLES. Riding this thing on mountain bike trails has nothign to do with the damage the SURRON may or may not casue ... it has everything to do with the fact that a mountain bike trail was created for mountain bikes. The SURRON IS NOT a mountain bike no matter how you want to twist reality. It's a motorcycle.

No Go make our own

A heavy mountain bike weights 30-40lbs with a sur ron weighing 110lbs and producing way more torque then the human leg with massive knobby tires it’s a no brainer to only have them on Moto trails not sure why y’all need MTB trails maybe build your own…

I'm a lifetime MX racer and motorcycle trail rider and mountain biker who has had to live with bikers and hikers on shared trails my whole life. If you own a Surron please don't ride them on MTB trails where motorized (motorcycles) are NOT allowed. If you do this you will only make the fight for eMotorcycle's access worse. Surrons are only allowed where motorcycles are allowed PERIOD. The big danger you are introducing is your uphill speed making a closure rate between a fast DH biker and Surron traveling up approaching 80 mph which is deadly. NOBODY expects an uphill motorcycle traveling 40mph on a non-motorized trail and you are going to hurt someone. This is the true problem when you mix motorcycles with other traffic, it's not trail damage, it's the dangers of closure speeds. It will take time and the popularity of eMotorcycles to gain more trail access, eMTB are far more popular and fighting this battle right now.

The people wbo have a issue with it are fat dudes on 5k carbon bikes with tight stomach hugging spandex. Lets just build our own trails and keep cross country bikes out.

Sure it's allowed because mtb is dying

I do not think should be allowed on MTB trails at all. Those trails were made for (and paid for) MTB. Just look at your video... you up hill riding is interrupting the MTB riders coming down...

Simple answer = NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Big problem with these bikes on MTB trails is the sheer torque from the rear wheel. If you ride aggressively, you'll blow out every root section, every corner, every covered rock and ruin the trails for mtbers - basically turning them into dirtbike tracks. Guarantee if there was a rear gopro on this bike in this video you'd see a rooster trail 80% of the ride. Unless you're going to fix the trails you destroy, stay the fuck off of them.