I can guarantee this RU-vid channel will shoot off in the future, it does everything right. Respecting all view points (at least enough to listen), playing devils advocate just enough to represent others opinions that aren't there right now. But also giving your own view point as well without attacking any people. No ad hominems, at least from you guys and a generally healthy conversation. Love from the UK! Keep it up
I guess for me the key argument or point that I’m for trans sporting competition is that you only see biological men going into biological female competitions and winning not biological women entering male sporting competitions and dominating, if that doesn’t demonstrate the fact it’s unfair I don’t know what would.
This is majority true but one of the highest achieving trans athletes is a transmale. Chris Mosier, in 2015 earned a spot on the Team USA sprint duathlon men's team for the 2016 World Championship.
The problem with this ENTIRE DEBATE is the underlying premise is patently false - that men can be women. It is upon this false underpinning that the entire debate rests and is the source of all of the absurdity.
I like your approach. This is how it should be done; no 'gotcha' questions, civilised discourse, polite disagreement. You deserve more subscribers and you will get them, I promise you that. I can feel it.
Just found your channel through the yt shorts, and it really caught my attention so I’m about to spend the whole night watching all your vids. Wish more people my age and the future generations start doing similar things (non-violent, calm and respectful listening and responding). Love from QLD.
Bro I love that you started with the nice old lady to start this whole channel. This is the best way to go about asking the hard questions, give everyone a chance to explain their position and be open to hearing another persons point of view.
it's ridiculous that this is even being discussed. Everyone knows males have huge advantages that becoming trans does not erase. Transes aren't asking for regular rights here, they're asking for special rights. The more I research this, the more I see the trans competitors aren't doing this out of a love of sports, they're doing it out of a perverse envy of women and a desire to humiliate them. I know that sounds harsh, and of course "not all" - but read the interviews with Fallon Fox the MMA fighter, or the male skateboarder who took prizes from women and schoolgirls, or the cyclist Ivy, or the swimmer Thomas, and hear it out of their own mouths. Trans have no business being in female sports.
Absolutely. I've seen the interviews and panel discussions. These men are absolutely horrible. Their superiority complex and their hatred of women shines through. I watched a panel discussion once that included that miserably annoying pink haired bicyclist that keeps changing names. Was Rachael McKinnis at the time. (Not sure of the spelling) But it was that one. And at least one other transgender woman, and at least one real woman. One of the more memorable things they said was that the new rules allow them to compete and if women don't like it, take it up with the officials. It wasn't said politely. They were gloating. And summarily dismissing the concerns of the women. They weren't really taking part in a discussion. Women have been taking it up with the officials. And the transgender women (dudes) raise such a fuss that the officials favor them every time. can you imagine if instead of scoffing at the women on the panel and gloating about the new rules letting them in - wouldn't it be amazing if the transgender women would go to the officials themselves and say that in fairness for all, they need to form trans teams? And some of these aren't even necessarily team sports. Such as bicycling, weight lifting and swimming, where if there's only one, they record the time as transgender and try to better their own time in the next competition. and st the first record that others will compete against as more become interested in competing.
It's the same with the restrooms, changing rooms, showers, etc. All the sex segregated spaces. The transgender women say they would be humiliated and in danger if they use the men's spaces. And that makes sense. But then they refuse to use gender neutral options and demand access to the women's instead. Because humiliating and endangering women is just the price society has to pay for equality and women have to toughen up and quit being prudes and 'bigots.' It should not even be a discussion. Gender neutral restrooms already exist. The building codes can be updated to mandate them everywhere. Other spaces can have a gender neutral option added. And until then, make arrangements with management or the desk clerk to clear the men's showers (for example) long enough for the one transgender woman to use it.
I feel they should have a separate league. A man that transitions into a women will (MOST LIKELY NOT ALWAYS) have the advantage in strength. Physically and evolutionary men have more strength than women
Exactly, the fact that people think they should be in the same category shows that they refuse to acknowledge the biology. A man transitioning into a women should not be allowed into womens sports, period.
But that league would be redundant because only the biological men would win in those competitions. So it's essentially creating another male division, but where they pretend to be women.
Glad to watch this type of content, no shouting, no tantrums and low blows. Just pure discussion. And for the topic, trans people should have thier own category. If their argument is that they can "nurf" or somehow equalize the physical difference for the participants I think it defeats the purpose of a sporting event where participants hone and perfect their skills to be the best.
anyone should be able to compete in men's athletics, as long as you can perform. The threat is not to men's sports, the threat is to women's/female sports.
One argument I never hear (haven't finished the video yet) is that nobody has the "right" to compete at the highest level. You either can or you can't. Go join a beer league that's co-ed like the rest of people that love to play but can't compete. There equality.
@@dequasont1063 that's the issue at hand. As some people may say that trans women have an advantage due to some spare testosterone left after taking medication and what not. Or if trans men partitate are strong. Whilst in the male category trans men and women may have a disadvantage
@ Crispy Clara ok? it’s called gender dysphoria and also they would be at a disadvantage as trans women would be on estrogen hormone treatment so they’d be physically weaker than the biological males
@@okkelly6207 Which is why they should have their own league. Not to mention but there hasn’t been a case of female to male competing in a male league, only the other way around.
This question is especially fascinating to me as a former D1 collegiate swimmer who swam in the same pools as Lea Thomas but decades earlier! It’s soo complicated. TY for addressing it.
DM us on Instagram, Daniel. If you've got any specific skill sets, we're open to hearing how you might apply them to what we're doing. Looking forward to hearing from you 👊🏻
If they're playing the sport because they want to be included, that's great, play the sport recreationally. When it comes to competitive sport, with monetary rewards or records at stake, that's when trans-athletes (M>F) become an unfair situation. They either need their own competitive categories, or shouldn't be allowed to take part at that competitive level. There should either be an abolishment of all sex category category distinction in sport, essentially eliminating female competitive sport, or a distinction between trans/biological male and female categories. An easier 3rd category would just be an "open" category, without specific "trans" distinction, where anyone could compete -- so males compete in men's sport if they choose to compete against explicitly men, biological females compete in women's sport if they choose to compete against explicitly females, and open categories are for anyone who doesn't fit those binary distinctions or doesn't match those biological binary distinctions, or just doesn't want to compete against explicitly biological males/females.
I will say many time there is no male sport. It is just the sport. Ex: NFL does not have a rule against females to join. So the male category is the open category. Little personal experience. When I was in high school during 2011ish we had women (2) join our schools wrestling team. They were on the JV team but they wrestled along with the boys. They still lost often simply because the strength difference even though they were in the same weight class.
@@SlicedBread2014 There are MANY male sports. Because the NFL doesn't have a rule against women joining, doesn't mean there are no male sports. Literally every sport in the Olympics is delineated into men's and women's competition. The only issue now is the loose and changing definition of these terms (men, women).
It was nice to hear the second guest bring up his trans male friend. Ever since this issue has come up I've always used that argument. Why do we never hear about trans male athletes trying to compete as men? Simple, in most cases they wouldn't be competitive. Exactly the opposite of the situation as trans women face. It all comes back to why we have women's sports and men's sports separated to begin with.
@@dequasont1063 trans people usually have hormone regulations so for example a woman transitioning to a man would have added testosterone. This would be unfair towards non trans woman since testosterone can enhance athletic performance. That’s why looking at sex wouldn’t quite work either.
Trans community need to have their own category when it comes to physical competition.. chess? Make it inclusive. Footy/ swimming/ soccer? Give them their category. There is a collective responsibility as a society to accept and include all walks of life,, we have that responsibility.. but it can't always LOOK like how they want it look like. The world cannot possibly be shaped completely to suit every single human and every single group... there comes a time where we have to take ownership and be responsible for our feelings and thoughts and find a way to be okay with the world we live in 🤷♀️
No I do not think trans should have their own category I say keep things the way they are and separate the boys and girls. If trans don't like that idea, then make an OPEN LEAGUE where all are welcome. I feel like it won't be as active as the regular all boy or all girl leagues, as boys don't really like to compete hard against females as we would feel like bullies or that we have to hold back, which isn't fun, and females don't like to compete against males because loosing every single time isn't fun. That said I don't care if a female to male trans wants to compete with men, as long as it's not a physical sport for reasons mentioned above. If trans don't like that there is nothing stopping them from starting their own leagues that allow gender fluid leagues. For such a small percentage of a population to make rules for the vast majority of the population lacks serious logical reasoning. Fairness in competitive sports should be held at the front of desired outcomes, not hurt feelings. Life isn't fair, I suggest trans get used to it. Nor do I think that governments should spend money for leagues or divisions for trans people. In capitalism if there is a demand for something the population will let it be known. Just look at the WNBA, It's not wanted by the vast majority of the population and is a complete financial black hole loosing on average 10 million US dollars each year, according to the NBA commissioner himself. That's over 250 Million US dollars wasted since it was founded so that 144 females can play basketball for a living. I don't know about you but that sounds like money well spent am i right,'' equal rights'' for both sexes no matter if it's logical or not, change for change sake because being progressive is good and the right thing to do. Nope can't think of a single thing that money would be better spent on at all. I would assume a trans league or division in sports would be an even bigger financial waste. To top that off, the WNBA has the audacity to complain about not getting paid the same as the men, when it is the men's league who is subsidizing them for being worthless and unwanted. That's like giving someone a helping hand up then they demand you pay them money for your help. The lack of logic these days in this world is pathetic. With all that said I just found your channel and I really enjoy your videos and your style of conversations. Hope you all the best with your channel growth and keep these bad boys coming.
Agreed. Firstly they won't use a separate category because they're "real women", and secondly it wouldn't be cost effective. I think the question really needs to be " what is a woman?"
The only reason it won't happen is because they refuse it. Because they are not interested in equality for themselves, but in usurping women's spaces instead because it's a thrill to them. They should be given only one choice. Play in a transgender category. Or don't play. nobody's making them play if they don't want to. But they should not be allowed to destroy everybody else's opportunity.
How did no one in the video bring up the fact that you couldn't populate the league they wished to create, especially in a small country like Australia? Australia has a population on 25 million people. If roughly .5% of the population is transgender that is only ~125,000 total people. For competitive athletes with the skills and willingness to dedicate their lives towards professional endeavors maybe 1% of that = 1,250. Of the remaining population you would need to divide it further based-off age, to stop 20 year olds from competing against either 5 or 60 year olds, so roughly another 15% less = 187 players. Divide the remaining players over the 50 or more sports/competitive events they can choose from and you have roughly 3 athletes in any given sport across all of Australia. I guess it does make it easier to determine who will get first, second and third though :).
This is very simple and easy. If trans men / women want to be identified as different category other than a male ( XY ) and a female ( XY ). They must agree to have different sports section.
My question is if there is their own category should we do the same for intersex people? What about racial segregation and taking our accomplishments against discrimination back 100 years? What about religious separation? It's an interesting topic on where the line should be drawn.
I've seen on another youtube video weeks ago (can't remember the video, sorry), discussion about allowing those who transitioned before puberty to continue playing women's sports (as opposed to those who transitioned after puberty). The claim was that those who transitioned before reaching puberty did not reap the advantages of testosterone development therefore, they were similar to natural-born women in most respects.
Y’know, though I don’t agree with this guy in all his thoughts or morals, the way he presents himself and offers to just sit down and chat, understand, and have a genuine conversation, I really do like! Though I wish this kind of progressive understanding was more prevalent within people :(
I love that you can say you disagree and not be condemned here. We're still on the same team, trying to unpack and make sense of complex problems. Thanks for sharing.
I would, at that point, separate athletes into many different categories based on things like testosterone levels, muscle mass, etcetera, because we’ve seen that some cis women have higher testosterone levels and that it helps them win. If we want fairness, we need to seperate athletes fairly by more than gender, but by genetics, by height, by weight. Some cis men have similar testosterone levels to some cis women, so gender/sex doesn’t cut it.
The issue has only arisen because we have allowed language to be manipulated. The question should read should men be allowed to play in womens sports? Then we wouldn’t even be in the situation where women are having to defend their own sports. It was never a womens issue to start. It’s only become an issue because we have allowed reality to be clouded because of language being manipulated to meet the needs, interests and desires of men. Hard facts!
Stayed tuned Kylla, we’ve got an episode incoming that you might like: ‘What is a man? What is a woman?’ I agree that there’s a language game going on and we need to de-muddy the waters.
Offcourse they should get their own category... This is one of those situations where they should be asking for exclusivity, but surprisingly are demanding inclusivity....
Right, so nobody asked, but here’s my opinion. Trans should compete in the category of whatever genetic makeup they have. If not, they may be advantaged to an unfair degree. I also think that the bathroom trans use should be based on what they have in their crotch. There are more toilets in a woman’s bathroom because they can’t use urinals if they need to pee, so someone with male genitalia shouldn’t occupy a toilet if they only need to pee and have the option of using a urinal.
My opinion is fairly neutral cause I have no interest in sports now but when I was growing up playing little league Football there was a weight limit and there weren’t protests
As much as I enjoy conversations like this… have you ever created Steven Crowder and the change my mind series for your inspiration? It’s like a carbon copy of that, especially your entire thumbnail font looks EXACTLY like his…
We only care when women are disadvantaged. All the debate on this is about how women feel when female-spaces are invaded. Locker rooms, toilets, sporting events, prisons etc. There is never any discussion about how men feel about their spaces being invaded. It is just the normal women-first empathy gap. For that reason men should oppose any corrective action until women approach it with an equality mindset..
Your point is borne out by the reaction to "guyd***s" and "girlf**s", cis men and women who want to be accepted in lesbian and gay spaces as insiders and feel entitled to current insiders as partners. Trans-accepting people agree with the point of view that such a man should stay out of women's spaces (even if they'd push for including trans lesbians). But the response such a woman received from the same crowd was just a welcoming You Go, Girl.
i dont think money will be a problem. there are soooo many companies looking to gain status by supporting stuff like LGBTQ things. therefore you can easily gain sponsors.
I don’t see how theoretically reducing someones performance by tampering with hormones/chemicals/a concrete block tied to their feet would be any different from enhancing someones performance in similar ways wich is illegal.
I'm curious what it would look like to do away with gender categories in competitive sport and instead create divisions based on performance. This is something that is already done within gender categories, e.g., weight classes, varsity/junior varsity, pro/junior leagues, etc. The natural stratification would likely result in divisions that resemble the current, gendered divisions in most sports but it would allow for trans athletes and other potential outliers to perform at the appropriate level - fostering competition and inclusiveness. Any thoughts? Creating separate trans divisions doesn't seem like it would be competitively engaging or inclusive for the small percentage of trans athletes looking to compete.
What would happen is women would be pushed out of competitive sports. There was a reason for the seperation of sports. Im speaking as a transsexxual woman, 7 years on HRT, my male puberty cannot be erased and because of this i will always retain a physical advantage over women in sport.
@@CommonGroundConversations is it Crowder inspired? Asking only as a fan. A fan of LWC and what your doing. Don't get me wrong, what you're doing is honest and well put together. Just seems very similar is all
This issue is fake controversy drummed up for money, views, and publicity. Most people don't tend to watch the majority women sports. Lots of them lose money. Trans controversy is a great way to get more people watching. The question isn't 'Should Trans Athletes Have Their Own Competitive Category?' but 'Who benefits from allowing them in?'
Most trans people just what to be treated like normal people and blend in with the rest of society. I think we can all agree that's the right thing to do. By shining the light of the media on them; regular, everyday trans people are the most misfortuned. The best thing would be for the media to stop stirring controversy for money so that people would stop hyper focusing on trans.
The problem with this ENTIRE DEBATE is the underlying premise is patently false - that men can be women. It is upon this false underpinning that the entire debate rests and is the source of all of the absurdity.
Unfortunately many have already conceded that ground. Now it's 'bigoted' to say that trans women aren't real women despite basic biology saying otherwise. Now the compromise is to just affirm the delusions.
