Should you learn C++ in 2023? 

Thanks, managed to be in the first 200. Doing the Comp Sci lessons!

Almost all companies use it, so yes.

No fireship videos are not sponsred bny brilliant or hellofresh so there is that.

​@@recursion.Conversely, he doesn't namedrop Tom Sowell and Mental Outlaw which is a big plus

@@joshbarghest7058 Mental Outlaw is based

Thank you!

Trust me, it's not nearly as hard as some of the tutorials make it appear. Just learn pointers, they are invaluable concepts. Even if you move to higher-level languages you will still need pointer-like things otherwise you won't know how to structure your code well. I tried C# before C++ and I was dead-confused by reference types, turns out they are just pointers. Memory management: Your computer has two sections of memory: The Stack and The Heap. The stack is a section of memory where variables are essentially placed next to each other. Think of the stack like a literal stack of plates: you can only add to the top of the stack (adding a plate) or remove from the top of the stack (removing a plate). This keeps the memory consistent without causing any gaps or problems (if you tried removing a plate from the middle it would probably topple over). By default, all variables in C are allocated on the stack. This means all your variables are placed next to each other by default in the order they are declared. This is fast because the cpu processes data in chunks at a time. So when the CPU grabs one variable on the stack, it normally grabs some other variables alongside it for good measure too (at no extra cost). The only problem with the stack is that the variables cannot change size (because they all have to be next to each other). This is because if you imagine a variable growing in size on the stack, it might overwrite it's neighbours (not good). So instead, when you have a variable that you want to grow dynamically in size (like a list) you need to allocate it in a separate place so it doesn't overwrite its neighbours when it grows. This place is called the Heap, and it's essentially just a random "Heap" of variables. The variables do not need to be next to each other this time, so there can be some gaps and slower performance, BUT your variables can be resized on the heap. You might also need the heap if the size of your variable is not known at compile time. It's basically like a bookshelf vs a random pile of books, at least that's how I like to think of it. The bookshelf is more space efficient and faster, but the constraint is the books have to fit next to each other on the shelf. The "heap" of books is disorganised and slow, but you don't have the same fitness problems. You need to manage memory when you need to add or remove from the "heap", the stack is automatically done for you (variables are removed from the stack in the reverse order that they were added).

amazing explanation, thanks@@oscarsmith-jones4108

Yes i also mainly use it for OpenGL and GLFW/SDL2 and i really love the language, planing to actually use it more broadly and i personally dont have linker issues because i left windows and currently only use Linux for development and pretty much just do my “sudo dnf install glfw” and it does everything for me rskk

@@soueucaasi gringo não entende essa risada ai, melhor botar um lol

@@PCXyHOHSmF bem isso os caras conhecem só a própria cultura msm kskk

It really does.

Im not a cpp dev but understand the language generally. Where is it? Other than that "std::endl" is bad practice and the example is (potentially) vulnerable to a bufferoverun, I see no issue.

I'm actually planning on doing a video about it! In C and C++ you can cause it to crash, basically.

I think you're the first to notice the buffer overflow 😂

@@dreamsofcode it's generally the case that once you see a raw char* (an array is a pointer) you can safely assume a bufferoverun to be present. I really don't understand why non length checked buffers even exist. The performance different is rarely a problem.

Package managers are a slippery slope. Avoid them at all costs. Languages that embraced them and even integrated them as a default tool are now collapsing under the dependency hell issues.

​@@vitalyl1327rust where, cargo where?

From my experience use your build tool to your advantage. I use cmake so I'll first try find_package, then FetchContent, then vcpkg

​@@vitalyl1327 😂

@@vitalyl1327 for which language besides JS do you see this being the case?

That's very true!

If you managed to learn those concepts in a day, your IQ is well above average haha. But i mainly agree, C++ has many concepts that to me seems specific for the language, C has most that is useful in general and you can learn relatively fast (unlike C++).

What do you use to learn? Udemy? youtube? books?

premake?

Rust is safer C++ with just enough of a taste of Haskell to cause friction.

Rust is everything C++ wanted to be and more. I'll probably never come back to C++ unless I get paid to do so. That said, if you're planning on skipping C++ and jumping right on to Rust you should probably learn something like Zig or Odin later on. Rust's otherwise excellent DX doesn't really carry over to when you try to do anything bare metal. C++ is still pretty unique in that it'll gladly let you do whatever the f you want.

​@@raianmr2843to see how rust low level can be done well I suggest you the channel "Low Level Learning" he has a few videos on bare metal rust and how to build custom 0 cost abstractions yourself. Because the reason rust feels clunky on bare metal is that for your specific bare metal Hardware especially in case of micro controllers there isn't any pre-built abstractions (or very little) past writing to raw addresses. The key is to write them yourself. This can also be a good exercise for library design.

@@raianmr2843 I agree. The last decade has brought us some great new alternatives to C++ that have learned from its mistakes: essentially start over with a clean slate, keep what is good and throw away the crud. I have yet to dive into Odin, but I would definitely recommend Rust or Zig to someone before C++ if they were looking to learn a lower-level language in 2023. While Zig/Odin are still somewhat niche, Rust has firmly established itself as a mainstream language that isn't going anywhere if the "mainstream" factor was a concern.

@@raianmr2843 Rust dropped one of the principles of C++ (freedom), so it is not what C++ wants to be. The closed one is Zig, but it leaks many features, but ...shortly... could be an alternative. OR a C++23 with an equivalent of cargo + static analyzer could be the "rust blocker".

Really doubt it'll ever surpass the F# milestone. People seem to be treating it only as a gateway ML. Ocaml, F#, Haskell pick whatever, they're all great MLs worth a programmer's time.

What's the F# milestone?@@raianmr2843

By popularity, you mean that Prime and TJ are talking about it?

@@raianmr2843 You forgot Elixir! It's great for web dev!

Probably good idea is to watch through the cherno's series on C++. He explains a ton of concepts starting with how to set up a project and then going into more specific stuff. Though because the series is a few years old some of the more modern parts of C++ (ranges, concepts, modules etc.) aren't discussed in that series

The Cherno's c++ series on youtube is great

For logic: Android NDK or Objectove-C++ -> C++ For UI: Skia or Impeller

except even JS isn't that complex, the ecosystem is. C++ is rotten to the core in terms of design and people should really stop using it for new projects

​@@marcs9451yeah just use rust fr

@@marcs9451 JS is not so complex, but it is on a good road to becoming complex (And differently from C++, where there are many reasons why it is so complex, JS is complex just for bad design choices).

​@@marcs9451then what should be used instead?

Good catch!

I am impressed with the quality of your video

Thank you!

Except when you want to do anything with actual memory or custom allocators, rust is better than C++ in terms of benefits but it's equally as complex and annoying

Safety story of Rust is overrated. A few language features do not trump the tooling, which Rust does not have and unlikely to get. Compare the safety of Rust with MISRA-C or SPARK.

1) Rust is not so safe (but of course, it is safer than C++) 2) AS Marcs said, managing the allocator in Rust is just impossible. 3) Rust has the unique feature to become more complex than C++, when the software is big.

Keep dreaming rust shill

I really like Rust, but I do find that C++ can be easier to use for certain cases. You're giving up a ton of safety however to do so!

C++ is still better for gamedev, Rust infrastructure is just not there yet

I found Rust to be hell for experimentation. You have to be very proficient in the language to make the program compile while managing different approaches to the problems you are dealing with. If you are not very good with the language usually it will have an inferir performance to Go (a much easier language), judging by some benchmarks i've seen. It's also pretty frustrating for learning data structures, which is a -1 for me because universities and college students will likely not use/study much the language (and so the ecosystem will not have as much young talent as it could). All in all i find the language fun, but it's more appropriate in systems where security and stability is critical. Also i find it's pretty good for tooling.

in short b and d is the same

I'd argue that C++ is not fast, but other languages are slow. The additional abstractions, such as dynamic typing, garbage collection and lack of compilation all incur overhead. What about you?

@@dreamsofcode reference semantics and automatic memory management can kill any programer's effort to increase performance, yes. C++ along with C and Rust can give a huge benefit here. what makes C++ even faster is static binding and compile time computation. that's sort of things only 1-2% of C++ developers can do. in overall, I see many people claim C++ is fast and then write java-style code in it: dynamic polymorphism, heap allocations, automatic memory management via shared_ptr etc. it really hurts my feelings.

Its by choice so that the dev can individually add only the needed dependencies, which can be critical in for eg microcontrollers and system level code

@@aviksaha1823 Ahh, that makes sense.

Because package managers are evil, and because C++ serves such a wide varity of platforms and use cases that no common approach to package management is even possible.

@@vitalyl1327 Cool. Thanks for the explanation! I've written a fair amount of Rust over the last couple of years and it's actually made me interested in C++ which may seem odd. Rust has a political nature to it that has become very distracting and C++ seems to just be about C++ and I like that.

not everyone programs in x86, x86-64

Competitive programming?

@@ForeverZer0 a rewarding competition between programmers to write programs using a programming language as fast as possible and as efficient as possible.

C will always be my first love. These new languages like Rust and Zig are interesting and fun to use for the learning purposes, but C is where I feel at home and always go back to, warts and all. Luckily everything relies upon C at some points in its execution, so it is going anywhere, as much as many people might wish it would.

😭😭 🤣

I learned c/c++ when I was 16-20 from books almost 30 years ago. No Google, no stack exchange, no leet code, no youtube. Did have IRC so could chat with other devs but that was about it. It's really not that difficult... I figured out pointers to pointers because I was writing a menu system for a 2d level editor I was working on. Yes some rudimentary knowledge of how computers work is required to do programming.

The class syllabus was horrible, the problems was not the language.

at my uni they taught us both c++ and python simultaneously during our first year, most students preferred the better type system in c++

"C is a terrible choice", that sentence is so stupid... The worst thing saw in my life are programmers who just know Java, Javascript, or Python, trying to write something in C, Fortran, C++, or even Rust.

I started with Python and 6 months later i started learning C. The learning experience was much better for me, i actually felt i was learning something, not just how to invoke functions to do something. I think it greatly depends of the goals of the person. If you want to understand not only basic programming, but how programs work, you should learn a more low-level language. But if your goal is much more practical, maybe sticking to these scripting languages is ok. That's why i believe it's laughable that some universities use Python for Computer Science classes. I mean, come on man! That's the people that are supposed to have a deep understanding of how this stuff works!

That is fair. Request granted.

Divide? The mathematical operation? Or am I missing something?

yeah binary, obviously, well looks like I'm stupid because C++ was the first programming language I've learned

It was built as a C++ replacement but especially for a better code base management if I remember correctly

Golang is in no way a replacement for C++, their use cases do not even overlap.

@@vitalyl1327 Yup, I agree. But popular cases, go is the best.

@@vitalyl1327 True story. According to this blog post (commandcenter.blogspot.com/2012/06/less-is-exponentially-more.html ) of the Go team, their goal was to replace the use of C++ at google and convert the c++ users. But they completely missed

I have a video about learning Go in 2023 that touches on this! Although my quality wasn't as good back then so I apologize

well, not if being employed is important to you

Rust is great... but I don't believe it to be as versatile when it comes to some more low level concepts, but this is by design.

​@@dreamsofcodeIt is as versatile, it's just.. um.. a pain in the ass to work with cos either you're purely in pointer territory or purely in reference territory anything in between is pain

Im currently studying a degree on sw eng and the main laguage we use is c++. Why dont you recommend to program in this language?

@@DavidDiaz-zr2hv stress mainly. i care not just about user experience but DEVELOPER experience. its a memory unsafe language that syntacticly makes no logical sense and is extremely verbose.. i make 6 figures literally fixing c++ code written ages ago in my company

But who will maintain all the C++ out there. 😭

JavaScript is often implemented in C++ 🌀

​@@dickheadrecs😂😂😂