I’ve been burning 93 gas in my 38 year old goldwing, because I’ve been told that it has no ethanol. Ethanol is the cause of that green gunk that forms in the carbs over time and plugs the jets. Or so I believe. Is this incorrect?
@@caryd67 most gas these days is 10-15% ethanol. Which given the age of your Goldwing, might cause some problems. A bike that old should NOT be run on 85% ethanol because it WILL cause problem with the fuel system and engine. 93 octane is probably overkill, check the owners manual and see what Honda recommends. I would think regular would be fine, but I would probably be using midgrade if it were my bike.
@@franferrario7425 Absolutely NOT, avgas contains lead which will damage your engine. Jet fuel is kerosene based, much like diesel but cleaner. Jet fuel is also illegal to run in your car in most states.
I know! This guy is great! Can you believe motorcycle magazine had to fire him for snorting fireworks and his best friend for being his dealer? True story. Pass it on. Addiction is a disease. The poor guy.
Bless your hearts. He and Zach worked for Motorcyclist Magazine. Motorcycle magazine is nonsense. Snorting fireworks isn’t a thing but it is a loose reference to Ari’s recent firework mishap. Also, I doubt if they were fired, though, I have no idea why they left. Maybe one of them pulled a Clarkson and beat up a PA for getting their sandwich wrong.
ive never had a fouled plug...of course I ride a Suzuki. You check the sparkplugs when you got the time to take it somewhat apart. Every 5 years at least.
Fun fact, in CANADA, Shell V Power and other premium grade fuels at SOME other stations contains NO ETHANOL. Lack of ethanol is a good thing and I for one prefer gasoline with no ethanol, especially prior to parking the bike for the winter.
definitely, ethanol is nasty shit that will decrease your vehicles lifetime. It’s not so bad if you run your machine constantly, but it only takes a few days for the ethanol to start pulling moisture out of the air, not to mention it struggles to stay in solution. Rusty fuel tanks aren’t a problem if your fuel tank is plastic. But letting your engine gulp water from the bottom of the tank is never a good look.
Same, glad you mentioned this. Regular is fine for regular season riding, but use premium for that final fill up, and also for the jerry can for the lawn equipment and other garage queens solely for the lack of ethanol
I believe the first 1.25 gallons from a traditional fuel station pump is whatever was last pumped through it if its a 1 fuel line model. If its a 3 or 4 line model pump than it will pump the exact octane selected from the start.
High octane gas also has anti-oxidents added, another benefit in addition to detergents. I'm a control engineer who's blended millions of barrels of gas and diesel for 31 years for Shell, Fina, Exxon-Mobil, Chevron-Texaco & PetroCanada. To my knowledge, we've never blended cheap, off-spec gas for the Quickie-Mart type of retailer. Every 50,000 barrel blend is on-spec, or reblended till it meets spec (Road Octane = (Motor Octane + Research Octane) / 2). Here in Canada, you can see a tanker from a big name refiner, filling the tanks of the "Super Save" gas station. The small retailers don't have their own refinery to make shit gas. They purchase on-spec gas from the big boys.
The ‘cheap’ gas or ‘unbranded’ gas is called Community gas and only meets the government minimum set in 1996 ( here in USA ), otherwise Shell, QT, Chevron…they have their own blends. Costco is interesting as they add their own additives at the delivery locations, thus boosting the ‘community’ gas up to the higher top-tier level stuff.
We use to use platformate in our refinery area trucks when low instead of heading to refinery gas stations. Platformate from platformures is high octane before blending.
Poorest gas I can buy in my area is 95. And Shell V Power Racing has "more than a 100 octanes". Actually I can remember leaded 86 being sold but it's gone from more than 20 years.
That protein shake comparison is probably one of the best I have ever seen when it comes to describing how octane works. Also, since bikes tend to get such good mileage, I tend to just run premium all the time anyway. At only 2-3 gallons a tank for me it's maybe $1-2 difference at most, so not that big of a deal to worry about for the potential benefits.
I've come to learn the owners manual is very different than many other's and is not your typical crinkle it up and throw away instruction pamphlet...it is a Fukn life saver! Almost like a "How to for Dummies". Broken down instructions and detailed pictures... perfect for a guy like me. 🤘
Started running exclusively Shell through my 2005 corroborated Harley after finding out they put more detergents than most other Top Tier stations. After a month of riding 75-100 miles a day and only using Shell my Harley was running noticeable better. Was able to do my first cold start in 10,000 miles without pulling out the choke.
When I picked up my brand new BMW M3 years ago the dealer said "run it on Shell or you'll regret it". I lived near a shell and ran it on Shells most expensive gasoline and never had a problem. I've always used Shell since then on many high performance cars and bikes.
But it makes more power and gets better mileage!!! Me: Really? How many records of mileage do you have? What? Me: I bet you change your full synthetic oil every 3000 miles even though the manual says 10k miles and have never had it analyzed? Of course, always every 3000 miles regardless! The oil was brownish black! What's analyzed?
Cars have a knock sensor and can adjust timing, so higher octane will get you better fuel economy in a car, but also ever so slightly more top end power. And, with more detergents, higher octane will also keep the engine cleaner. Not a bad idea, imo.
@@ChrisJohn_444 : That ONLY comes into effect in engines that have a compression ratio that requires higher than "regular" octane, It allows them to run on regular at full throttle without damage, if you never use full throttle (many people don't), you will see no difference in fuel milage using one grade lower than recommended. Putting in half a tank of premium when very neer empty every five or so tankfuls of regular will provide all the 'cleaning' you need.
@@johndavidwolf4239 Not true. My mustang is tuned 87 octane from the factory, but gains hp with 93 in it. Also, I've tested it in regular driving, same kms, same route, same driving habits, renders better mpg. And, more cleaning additives, means better cleaning. You pay more for it, but you get more. The way the ecu compensates for lower octane is it pulls timing. With higher octane, it bumps timing, so it's more efficient and has slightly more output.
As mentioned below, you should also talk about ethanol content in gasoline. All if not most gasoline today is sold with ethanol in it. Then there’s Shell’s V-Power 91-octane gasoline with 0% ethanol. A mechanic recommended I fill my FZ-07 with Shell V-Power for winter storage. The FZ-07 normally uses 87 octane.
@@joew7897 Fuel stabilizer will not remove the 10% Ethanol already present in the fuel. The point is to use a fuel without Ethanol, because ethanol is hydrophillic and attracts water (will pull moisture from the air). That is exactly what you don't want to happen when you store your bike for months at a time.
@@joew7897 Is fuel stabilizer that cheap? This only cost about $1.50 in fuel if the 91 is 50 cents a gallon more than 87. Remember you will still have to fill your tank with the 3 gallons of 87 plus the stabilizer over just filling with 3 gallons of 91.
@@CraigSmith568 none ethanol fuel near me is dollar more per gallon over premium which is usually .60-80 cents more than regular. Not to mention the stabilizer bottle usually treat 15+ gallons. So for me having 3 bikes a 4 wheeler and a mower to winterize. Its considerably cheaper.
@@Andres-hv7kg no it doesn't remove nor did I say that it removed the ethanol. It does, like the name implies, stabilizes the fuel. Which includes fuels with ethanol. It stops it from absorbing water.
Fun fact....it takes 1.5 gallons of diesel to produce 1 gallon of ethanol. This is from the tractors it takes to prepare the land, plant the corn, harvest the corn and process the corn....
i knew all of this aready, but you did a very good video. it was clear, concise, and understandable. im glad that you pointed out the differences of the European rating system versus the American one. a lot of people dont know this. however. i used to have an RX-7 with a Wankel and it would get around 2 mpg better fuel mileage with 93 versus 87. sometimes as high as 3 mpg. so it was worth the extra price. the car was more responsive because the plugs stayed cleaner and the fuel burned better because of the higher spark. again, thank you for making such a well done video. very professional.
I have a friend who ran 87 octane in his 2014 Street Glide for years. It knocked and pinged all the time but he insisted that was okay. It was, until he cracked a piston and ruined his motor! 😮
In the state of Minnesota, the regular gas and mid grade gas has ethanol in it. The only gas that has is ethanol free is the high octane stuff. I ride a 2018 GoldWing (which I know you love, and so do I) which calls for regular 87 octane and I will run it on trips if I'm going through gas quickly but won't put the regular ethanol crap in if I'm storing the bike. Thanks for the video!
Excellent video. Octane ratings is one of the first things you get thought about at schools like UTI/MMI, but most people have no idea what it does and are often mislead into buying the wrong fuel by the “standard/mid/premium” stickers that all the pumps use. The gas stations are counting on people not knowing the difference in an effort to up income.
One of the other factors that motorcyclists have to live with is the fact that our gas tanks are relatively small. No matter what we purchase on the higher end, there will be a substantial amount of (most likely) lower grade fuel between the fuel nozzle and the gas station fuel pump. You won't be filling up with the fuel grade that you really want. When riding in a group, let your buddies fuel up first, as a courtesy. 😉
@@diegolobianco1015 US typically uses one nozzle for for 3 different grades of gas(petrol), you push a button to close the octane grade you want. If diesel is offered it is it’s own separate nozzle on the opposite side of the pump. Many city areas don’t offer diesel because most all of our smaller city vehicles all run on gas, diesel gets offered when you go further out where people drive pickup trucks, or close to highways or interstates.
My hayabusa and zx6r love 87. With the stock tune having conservative ignition timing values I don't have any issues. Both bikes are raced and ridden hard on 87. On the other hand, my bmw k1200lt will knock even with 93 in it if you lug on it in top gear. All bikes are different, depends on how heavy it is and how you ride. But basically any bike can run on 87 if you are careful and know what knock sounds like.
Thanks for summing it up, Ari. As a non-native speaker having the privilege of running in a brand new bike, I watched the whole video a couple of times to make sure I understood every point. Much appreciated.
česko? dont be a fool and put just premium gasoline into your tank. the dude is speaking literaly bullshit. I ride bikes for 13 years now. even in 2008 the 100 octane allowed me to run my bike on lower RPM without slapping the chain. it run smoother. smoother is better for the whole engine and its bearings. and now with E10 bullshit, I can significant save fuel with 100 octane. the consumption goes down by 15-20% with premium fuel. no joke. the rubber parts of your fuel system will thank you too. never tank E10 or non premium shit. you can thank me later
Also note that 91 (low est octain fuels) can use other additives which cause waxing. Great for efi injectors as it improves lubrication properties in the fuel system. However for a bike that sits alot and carby bikes it blocks up jets, being a right pain. Highly advise running 95 or 98 fuels in those bikes before storage or to drain the fuel from the fuel system. Only run 95 and up in my cars and bikes. Note, for Australia.
I run regular 87 in my yamaha. But in October I start running 90 octane because at my gas station the 90 is ethanol free so there is no ethanol in my tank over the winter.
I run 93 in all my vehicles (2016 mustang gt, 2022 Honda cbr300r) because even thou it doesn't increase power on the cbr (it does increase power on the mustang gt) it does clean the cylinder better and helps keep the engine running good
You're wasting money, because the gas companies are lying to you. Federal law requires the gas companies to put the same additives and cleaners in all 3 grades. However, Federal law does not require them to *tell* you the cleaner is in all 3 grades.
Good video. Here in Australia I run my Indian Springfield on 98. In the USA 93 but Canada I found I needed to regularly use an Octane booster as the heavily loaded bike would ping especially when climbing. The octane boost was effective. I have not experienced this problem in Australia. I avoid ethanol but you don't always know what your fuel is so I prefer major brands. Cheers and thanks. Fuel is cheap. Pistons are not.
In Layman's terms; use whatever grade/octane fuel the vehicle was engineered for. Eliminating Ethanol from fuel would be a far better improvement than using a higher octane gas or any gas additive.
You failed to mention that most high-performance motorcycle engines have knock sensors that will prevent damage from detonation by retarding the spark as necessary. If the detonation is caused by low-octane fuel, then using a higher octane may allow the engine to operate at full power. Also, detonation is not correlated with high rpm, but rather with high cylinder pressure, which produces high torque. On aircraft engines with controllable pitch propellers, suspected detonation is controlled by a selecting a richer mixture and a higher rpm setting.
I agree "exept" that it is not at a higher rpm settings, but at higher power settings, the issue with propeller aircraft engines is the tip of the propeller aproaching trasnsonic speed where the efficency goes to crap.
You go to the pump and it has 1 hose with 3 selections you select 91 you can get up to a gallon of what the previous person purchased which is usually 87 and you end up paying 91 octane price for 87 fuel.
Here in the Rocky's, he also have 85 octane because the air is thinner and different atmospheric pressure at higher elevations and it will burn like 87 just fine, only costs a little less. My California in-laws were freaking out that gas stations didn't offer 87 and they thought their Toyota sienna was going to die if they used it lol.
An important thing to note is that modern engines have Knock sensors which detect if there is predetonation in the engine. It’ll pull back timing to stop the predetonation to save the engine, but you’ll make substantially less power. Running enough octane insures that the engine won’t be pulling timing so you’ll make more power, even if it can “technically” run on 87 safely. Also, higher octane gasoline can be useful if the outside air is hot and if you plan on driving up long hills. Both of those situations cause the fuel to predetonate so a higher octane will be safer for the engine. Lean fuel mixtures with hot air and high altitude are likely to knock, and high engine loads cause knock too. Driving uphill at a higher rpm is beneficial to prevent knock especially on turbocharged vehicles. Lugging the engine at 2000 rpm, flooring it, to try to make it up a hill can be dangerous. Modern performance cars can usually run 87 these days safely if you dont get on the throttle to hard and too long, but all it takes is one sudden predetonation event to chunk a hole in your piston so run the highest octane you can if it’s recommended, especially if you drive hard. Also, ethanol in gasoline isn’t as bad as everyone thinks. If you drive often to prevent water absorption and you have a modern vehicle with modern fuel lines there’s nothing to be afraid of. Ethanol increases octane for cheaper, and it also has a higher cooling capacity so it prevents knock further by lowering cylinder temps substantially. I’ve seen cars run e85 for over 100,000 km with no issues to the stock fuel systems, no oil dilution by ethanol, and no material degradation. Ethanol is only really an issue on old vehicles and some specific new ones, so research it yourself, but “Ethanol bad” isn’t really true at all. Also a side note, knock sensors do absolutely nothing to detect rod knock, like many people think. I’ve seen literally dozens of people think their engine is gonna blow because they have a knock sensor code.
I think you mis spoke about the knock sensor not being able to detect a rod knock, it will, but the knock sensor can't tell the cause of the knock so the engine ecu will retard ignition which does nothing to help a rod knock condition. You're quite right that a failed knock sensor won't make your engine blow unless ofcourse you buy a lower grade fuel than specified and then continue to hammer the throttle. ( ASE cert mastertech, 40 years experience)
There is one caveat to the octane thing. Some stations in certain states and provinces (I am currently in Canada) the do not have ethanol in their premium fuel. In those cases I always suggest running premium just to avoid the ethanol. I am in the fuel business myself, and we offer a no ethanol, super long life fuel. Anyhow, avoid ethanol at all costs in a motorcycle, especially if your bike will be sitting for more than a couple of months.
I had a BMW 1150 gs that called for premium fuel and would still knock or ping at high altitudes with it. I was in Canada and got a tank of Husky 100 octane fuel and noticed a substantial gain in power, it would literally pick the front wheel up coming off the line where the 91 in the states would not. Also had the same experience with an RZ350 two stroke when running 100 octane cam 2 fuel. Now being a auto technician for 35 plus years new cars have what is called a detonation sensor the listens for detonation and reduces the ignition timing to correct it which decreases performance and fuel mileage. I run premium fuel in everything for one to keep it clean inside which like he said cuts down on carbon build up which will contribute to detonation. Also with adjustable ignition timing you can run it more advanced which improves performance. So at very least run what is recommended.
Not surprised. In Europe, petrol's very expensive by higher octane: 94 is standard, 98 premium. Any European engine (car or bike) will run smother with US “premium“ gas".
I only use 91 non-ethanol in everything but my daily drivers. I have a pickup truck I only drive every few weeks, my street bike, and all my power equipment. I still use a bit of Sta-Bil for winter storage, but it's nice knowing the alcohol will not attack the aluminum in everything.
It may not be making more power, but your engine is clean, and that is half the battle. I have the same bike in my garage as well. With such a little tank, does it hurt to use premium gas?
No bikes ever calls for regular the lowest rated for a bike is mid grade, I put 91/93 in my bike no matter what think about it your only putting 3-4 gallons at most its not that much extra money your engine is gonna run cooler and despite what this asshole says you will get better gas mileage and your engine will last longer and yes if you can find fuel with mount ethanol it is better but in the states that’s kinda difficult
Honestly, this video didn't really make any difference to me though. My logic for now is that I've already run 86 grade fuel (minimum for the bike) for about 150 miles and now have some control data for performance. We'll see how the top tier 93 grade octane does for my CMX 500 which is basically the same engine as the CBR but tuned for lower end rev meaning a potentially higher compression.
Great Advice! Matches my old Jeep book to a T. It advised that if knocking occurs on 87, switch to a 89 and so on if operating in warm, high elevation, dry environment- like Vegas. It worked perfectly on 89. Too bad the rest of the vehicle was junk.
Depending on your compression ratio depends on what octane rating you can run. Ping aka knock can damage your piston. The bikes that run 87 can run 93 but there is no improvement on power or mpg. Higher octane gas does clean off carbon from valves and piston
That's my biggest concern with my bike as the owners manual calls for 86 OR higher so I put 93 cause of the detergents and it makes me feel better knowing the bike is running the best it can.
Compression ratio is not the only factor, my motorcycle is a 13:1 that calls for 87AKI, my car is a 10.9:1 that calls for 91AKI. The ignition timing is the other major factor. Electronic ignition that advances based on feedback from a knock sensor is also the reason that many cars now accept a range octane ratings.
Something I saw pointed out is if your engine has a lot of carbon build up that lowers your compression ratio since the carbon takes up space. So sometimes I put higher octain fules in older bikes because I don't want to be the person the bike brakes on
i inherited my grandfathers 2001 holden ute (ls1 powered) about a year ago. he owned it since new, mostly hwy driven and he never gave it a hard time while he used 91 (our lowest). i couldnt get the black smoke to stop when i put my foot down, so i used 98 (premium) for a few tanks. After two weeks the car ran smoother and got better fuel economy on both 91 and 98. i still run 91 but every 5th fill up ill use premium, i dont know how it works but its been worth it
I'm a daily rider and I run top tier 91 just for the higher detergent and and especially so in the summer here in Northern California where ambient temps are well over 100F. It can run on 87 but the bike gets around 50 mpg, average fill up is 3-4 gallons so 90 cents to $1.20 more a fill up is worth it to me.
Ari is the best! Definitely a good acquisition by Revzilla! They needed someone to compete with Bryan Van. Please keep the technical articles coming! I loved these from Ari back in the day when he was with the other RU-vid channel. Let’s see him work on some stuff and do mechanic walk throughs/installs as well!
Thank you for saying who it was. Idk, maybe I missed that in the beginning. I couldn't match the voice to Zach, Spurg, Lemmy, etc. from listening to High Side / Low Side.
My pushrod evo motorcycle engines would sound like glass was breaking in the cylinders when I used low grade fuel especially when I wanted to go faster. This problem resolved itself once I started using premium 93 octane gas. I felt smoother throttle response and a happier engine.
I've owned 4 90s EVO Motors and what he said is true. I only run 93 with no Ethanol or Wawa Rec90 with No Ethanol on old Harleys. See back in the 90s there was No Ethanol in gas until Bush JR introduced it to Gas in every gas stations and old vehicles started to break down because of Ethanol 🤦♂️
Nice... I have a Toyota Corolla from 2006... been using only premium in it, and it’s 2021... took it a few months ago for inspection... the garage person said the engine is just as good as it was in 2006 :D
I have done tests on 3 motor bikes 2018 xt 250, 2007 650 klr, 2015 650klr. Non moded and increased all 3 by one liter less per 100km. Less ethanol in premium means less corrosion and less rubber cracking, stiff diaphragms ect.
I used to have a Honda motorcycle that was designed for 87. I would occasionally run 91 for the extra additives, but it definitely ran and sounded better on 87. Have also had to fill my air-cooled v-twin with 87, no big deal. Just stay off the throttle and be gentle.
Has anyone else ever wondered how much 87 you get out of the pump and lines when you click 93? There are separate tanks underground, how much volume of 87 do you buy before the tanks 93 reaches the pump? Half your motorcycle tank could be regular 87 before you actually get 93 out of the nozzle.
The distribution valve is in the pump. It still probably amounts to a guart or so in the hose. It is an issue on my Benelli tnt135 due to the small tank. I do the math, the previous sale is on the pump, sale $ divided by gallons = $per gallon. I look for a hose full of premium. Or, use a pump that a motorcycle is using before me. It isn't an issue on my Moto Guzzi, it holds 5.5 gal.
On the average it’s .12 gallons. That’s taking the average length of a fuel pump hose and the average diameter of the hose and finding the volume. This isn’t spot on as some pumps may be a little longer and some may not be completely full of fuel, but it gives a pretty good idea of exactly how much fuel really isn’t being held in the pump from the last guy.
No, it's .312 gallons for the hose only. V=πr2h=π·0.442·120≈72.15846 Gets you cubic inches, then take that value and divide that by 231 and you get .312 gallons. That's ONLY what's in the visible hose and not including whatever is going on inside the pump, switching valves, pipes, filters etc...
Explains it so well. Had a friend who had a car tuned for 93 and was running 87 randomly. Told him he's asking for trouble. Even showed him when computer was hooked up. Fast forward two days later. BMW Flys by and he floors it. Loud ticking sound began. Bent rod lol.
So in general, it is good to use higher octane fuel on any type of engine even those that doesn't require it coz it cleans my engine better but trade off is I pay more for gas if my engine doesn't require it. On the flip side, it is bad to use lower octane fuel that what the engine requires.
One thing to consider if using it purely for the detergents: An occasional bottle of fuel injector cleaner is much cheaper and yields similar results. (The excellent Project Farm channel has conducted some tests that established this, if interested in more detail.)
My manual says 87 or higher…. And I will definitely say my bike seems to run smoother with 91-93, although that could just be my imagination too 😅 honestly as long as there aren’t any negative side effects of using the higher octane, the detergent benefits for giving some love to my engine internals are more than worth it. These bikes already get 80-150 miles per gallon. And my other ride is a Colorado that gets 20mpg…. So Personally the extra $0.50-$1.00/gal is more than worth it in my bike that I definitely ride harder. 🤷♂️
I have a friend who has been delivering fuel for three decades. Most of the fuel that goes to the cheap discount locations is the same fuel that goes to the higher end ones.
I don't have a motorcycle but I do drive a 370Z, with a high compression engine. Because of Nissan's adaptive ignition timing, I can run lower octane gas than what the engine was optimally designed for, 98 RON. In the US market, Nissan specs a 91 AKI gas as a minimum octane and it does run acceptably well. I now use a blend of Sunoco SS100 race gas and Shell V-Power Nitro 91 oct to get a blended average 93.25 oct, which the engine really likes.
There have been car tests that show a slight mileage boost from 91/93. The detergent is critical. My 2010 E550 RWD 386hp V8 @ 158k drives like it has 425hp.
Great video, best explanation of the science I’ve seen, thank you. I bought a new Kawasaki Versys 1000 in August 2020. Great motor, but I did notice some vibration at around 4000 rpm. Not unbearable, but that does correspond to 60mph in sixth gear so cruising around the legal speed limit became a bit tiresome. Some professional bike reviewers have also noticed this, but they mostly put it down to their new test bikes’ motors needing « run in » (as we say in the UK). So I did some more trips, but even after 1500 miles the problem was still there. Kawasaki recommend « E5 » unleaded petrol (gas), which as I understand it contains 5% ethanol. Both BP standard unleaded (95 octane in the UK) and BP Ultimate unleaded (98 octane) are E5, so they both meet Kawasaki’s recommendation. According to your science, and I know that this is accepted wisdom, I should have noticed no difference on switching from BP standard unleaded to more expensive Ultimate. And yet.... my motor is definitely smoother, and the vibration at 4000 rpm has virtually disappeared! I guess you will tell me that this is a placebo effect, just like homeopathy. I should get someone else to fill the tank without telling me which fuel has been chosen, and then see what I think. Maybe I will, but I don’t want to spoil the illusion!
I have seen better fuel efficiency in my Harley Davidsoj Fatboy, 47 mpg from 87 octane and 54 from 93 octane. I do not think it is all hype. I also have had similar experiences in my car
I also ride a Versys 1000 but I have found no difference between different octanes or different ethanol percentage. There just is a slight vibration around 4000 rpm. Adjusting valve clearance and synchronizing the throttle bodies at 42.000 km did make a slight difference but that is to be expected after a synchronization. I did notice that after owning the bike for a while, I got used to the vibration and I almost never notice it anymore.
I can attest that this is true. Especially the detergents. I rebuilt a 1975 CB550F that was in bad shape. Gummed 4 barrell carb that sat for years all tarred up. After a full rebuild of carb and almost everything else, i ran high octane and it did keep that carb spotless for years. Same for my rebuilt 2002 Shadow. It wont hurt to run it and with a carb it may be worth it but true, no better horsepower. Plus, i think most modern fuel injected systems are designed for anti knock and ping with lower grade fuel anyways so you probably wont see any change. Just cleaner system. Which, if you keep cars for 10yrs or more, may be worth it.
Thanks Ari, I learnt something today.... so thank you! I had a question, I have a classic motorcycle a 500cc Single cylinder Royal Enfield..... Could you make a video about carburettors? How to keep it healthy.... when to know its time to replace one, if damaged..... or more importantly how can one damage a carb unknowingly? Or just any tips for people who own classic motorcycles.
Good discussion. Modern engine management systems make a big difference. My '92 K100 will run on pretty much any grade of fuel, even old gas. However, my carburetor Triumphs demand premium. Triumph specified 97 RON minimum for my '72 Trident. Even then, they will knock if I'm stupid enough to accelerate from too low an RPM. Lucky for me that non-ethanol gasoline is easy to find around here.
The K is liguid cooled, Triumph is air cooled. Huge difference, the air cooled motor will not tolerate low octane on a hot day. Pre-ignition could hole a piston in no time
Well it's allowing more timing without detonation which in turn will result in more power when tuned for it, if say you are running vehicle originally designed to run 87, you get it tuned on 93 for max gains.
They probably had ethanol in the 91, typically at least in the US the cheaper (its 85 equivelent** in the US, 91 RON = 85 (R+M)/2) they usually don't have ethanol in the higher octane "premium" option, and ethanol has a lower energy density so you will see better fuel economy with lower amounts of ethanol. That's probably what you noticed and not the octane change. **Its kind of like how your bikes say 300 kph and ours say 186 mph, its the same thing, different units on our fuel pump as the octane equation standard is different in the US.
Although 98 RON is roughly equivalent to 93 AKI, and 95 RON (regular in most of Europe) is roughly equivalent to 91 AKI. (Which also means, if you've got a vehicle that calls for 98 RON, you'll want to find a station whose premium is 93, not 91, and there's whole states where that isn't the case AFAIK.) (The US 87 AKI regular is roughly equivalent to 91 RON, FWIW.)
In most modern engines, the risk of engine damage from running lower octane than recommended is low. This is because there are almost always ping sensors, and the computer will quickly adjust by pulling timing (if there is variable valve tech available) or lowering the amount of fuel delivered (if there is electronic fuel injection). There is some damage risk, as there has to be some pinging to be detected, but the general effect is reduced power, and possibly worse fuel economy. Aftermarket computer upgrades can bring the risk of damage back by being much more aggressive with the variables that are held back when pinging is detected.
Another point not mentioned. I hauled fuel for a living. Just because the station brand is on the pump. Doesn't mean that brand name is in the ground. The refineries set the price at midnight. These prices go out to the haulers. They dispatch drivers to go the cheapest refineries. All refineries have a no brand fuel as well. Shells no brand for example is MOTILLA.
The high octane in my area contains no ethanol while the low and medium contain up to 15% so as I approach the end of riding season, I only use high octane and stabilizer so that I don’t get the phase separation from the ethanol that leaves water in my tank during the storage months, even more so with my snowmobile which has a much longer off season. So there is more to to high octane than anti-knocking on high compression engines but thanks for the great explanation regarding power.
A good thing to note is that higher octane fuels also tend to almost “go off” faster. Meaning a lower grade fuel will keep its quality longer. This is more a problem in australia where I live as we get up to 98 which will go bad much quicker than US fuels as it’s much higher but yeah, do keep this in mind
98 RON is basically the same as 93 AKI. The higher the octane, the LESS fuel it has in it. Less fuel allows for higher compression and more advanced ignition. Resulting in substantially more power even with less fuel. If your car is stock, running 100 or 110 won't do any good. Because your stock engine will not increase compression and won't advance ignition to make use of the added octane. My car is tuned on 93. It makes less power if I run 87 and it makes less power if I run 100 (negligible, but it would rather have a higher percentage of fuel than more octane which it can't use). Neither is catastrophic, though more octane is better/safer than less....to a point.
@@mareksumguy1887 honestly, i really have no idea why 🤷♂️ but its just something thats happened in my experience. im not sure if soemthing in the higher grade fuels attracts water, dust etc. easier but its definetely a very noticeable difference (using an old bit of 98 runs bad after say a year whereas some 91 seems to run fine)
I only fill her up with high octane fuel because in holland they add 10% bio ethanol to regular octane 95 fuel. Also, my fz1 has some crappy fueling between 4k and 5k rpm. With quality fuel this is much less noticable.
Richard Blaauwgeers Same here, especially now that will be going into winter storage in a couple days. I’ve been using strictly ethanol free gas for the last month, and the few stations that sell ethanol free gas in my area, it’s all high octane.
in Europe all the petrol has some ethanol in it. E5 means 5%, E10 means 10% and every bike sold in Europe is rated to use E5 or E10. Ethanol increses the octane number and make autodetonation harder, for example In Italy they have only E5 but in France, Germany and Spain E10 is common. It's not bad if you burn through the tank fast and it's cheap but it's not a great idea to store a tank full of E10 because ethanol contain more water that can create rust.
Bizarrely, my 2020 BMW absolutely HATES the higher octane stuff. I thought there was something wrong with it when I bought it, because it took a few attempts to start it when cold, until the dealer told me to put regular petrol in it. Runs like a dream and costs less too.
You are absolutely right. In addition you engine ECU will sense the difference in fuel by the O2 sensor and compensate. Therefore no power gains unless the engine is designed for high octane. Cheers
Not entirely. The o2 sensor won’t sense the higher octane. The knock sensors will. Running 87 in a performance engine will cause the knock sensors to pick up vibrations which tells the ECU to pull timing. That makes less power. By running higher octane fuel the ecu wont pull any timing. You can see power gains by running high octane fuel in any engine that is currently pulling timing, which is surprisingly A LOT of them, because they run lean for better mileage. Hot weather, uphill roads, high altitude, beating on a car engine, can all cause knock even in engines designed to run on 87 and you’d see a benefit from running 91.
Funny how so many dudes is UK and EU think their gas is better because "bigger numbers" 🤣 Always have to explain to them that no, your gas isn't any higher octane, it's a different rating system.
It does depend, though. In some European countries you can buy 100 or 102 Octane, which is the equivalent of 95 or 96.5 AKI. So it may be true that they have higher octane available, though nothing sold as a new bike in this country really needs it.
@Tyler Staton Nice for you that it is so close. We have various gas stations in CT that sell VP 110 racing fuel from the pump, though it must be pumped into gas cans and not into a vehicle. The VP 110 they sell is 110 octane low lead for $10 a gallon. Since I don't need 110, I buy the 100 LL from the airport for $5 a gallon. pure-gas.org has many locations that sell non-ethanol and high octane fuel.
93octane in usa is AKI* number.. However in certain country like japan and mine, there is RON100 pump gas available.. which is definately higher than 93octane AKI number... 93octane AKI is about RON97 or 98 rate... Which also often rated as premium gas almost everywhere... *Correction
*This Guy...* He *EARNED* his *Subscribe!* Good stuff! Great introduction of base knowledge to build a better understanding of fuels and how they work. Now maybe folk will understand that tier1 and tier2 gas has nothing to do with octane rating because octane rating is called, grade; not tier. One tip: when putting away your bike or lawn equipment for the season and don't want to use fogging oil and stabilizers, at bare minimum, stall your bike by shutting off the fuel instead of using the kill switch or key. This will run the fuel out of the lines, bowls (if it's a carb), fuel rails, etc. and limit sludging and the corrosive effects of ethanol. Then, TOP OFF your tank to the filler neck with fuel before putting it away. The chemicals used to adjust the octane rating can evaporate quickly. By reducing the air in the gas tank, you reduce the effects of evaporation, hence, prevent octane rating loss. Simple practice of good habit goes a long way in protecting our tools and toys!
So I've always been concerned about gas pumps with only one hose. The hose and plumbing from the bottom of the gas pump likely contains at least a gallon of gas I'd think. And since I'm only putting about 2 gallons in my R3 I'm likely getting at least half a tank of regular unleaded that the minivan in front of me filled up with. Has anyone done any testing on this or know how much the average hose holds?
@@AskformeJohnT Doesn't matter much if your getting 16 gallons but of your getting two it does. Only way to insure your octane is to get a few gallons into your car and then fill your gas jugs for your bike. A hose and other plumbing at a station can easily hold a gallon.
I doubt it or you should thank the driver in front of you. Better yet, you hop from one gas station to next and never pay for gas. Seriously though, I have also heard this theory and it's nonsense. Most of the gas stations in my area are this way and have no issues with my premium fuel requirements on my BMW. Put gas in and enjoy the ride.
Nice! In a car I noticed mileage difference though it was between E10 and premium 98. When I looked into it, E10 has less energy due to ethanol content so it made sense to me
Oh ok! Here in Greece I have a growing suspicion that 98 gives just a little bit of extra mileage compared to the regular 95. But I’ve noticed this mainly on a 1600cc car than my 125cc motorbike.
The reason High octane fuel has more additives is, since it does not ignite as easily, it may not burn away completely and leave deposits. Extra additives are needed to prevent the deposits where lower octane will flash off more effectively and therefore does not need the additives. For the same reason an engine designed to run on regular may not perform as well on premium. It desires the faster igniting fuel to run efficiently.
Exactly octane also comes into play with different altitudes thats why here in SA we have higher octane fuels because the air is thinner the higher the altitude even though golfs are recommended from factory to run on 91 octane
@@anything4tech699 very true. Sometimes I forget we are on a plateau. With the mp9 injection system it works really well although I do need to get a proper fuel management system hooked up to tune.
Great video, would be cool to note if running a few tanks of premium is better, the same or less valuable than dumping in some injector cleaner from time to time. I am on my second FZ1 (first gen, carbureted) and used to fill it at Costco. Costco claims to be top tier with detergents, but I would regularly have cold start idle issues. Someone recommended Chevron/Shell for better detergents and I made the swap. after 2 full tanks all my cold start and idle issues went away. That was back in 2012, I have been using Chevron exclusively now for both my motorcycles and by trucks since then. I will still toss in injector cleaner from time to time to help keep everything clean, but maybe I should just fill up with 91 on occasion?
As a rule of thumb during the summer hottest months I use 93. Nothing like getting caught in traffic on an air cooled machine(83GS1100GL) hearing that ping noise when the temps get up there. I had an 07 FZ6 that if you ran anything but 93 in the summer would ping slightly under low rpm load. Anything with over 10:1 I would use 93 even if it calls for less.
Many ppl come to the garage saying their cars are good because they always use 93 octane, I try to explain but they say” oh but my father said/my friend….” I didn’t know that 10/8 years ago after hear about I start to check out and I forget what my thoughts were! Nice video!
I run premium in my work truck. Every truck I’ve ever owned, and I’ve run them hard and for a long time. Never had issues with the engines. I’ve got a 2007 Silverado with the 4.8 vortec that’s only ever had premium. She’s about to roll over 325k. Still runs like new. I’ll take the hit to the pocket book for the good stuff, it seems to work good in all vehicles.
Air is denser at sea level. So you need less octane the higher up you go, which is why in some mountainous areas they sell 84 octane as a replacement for 87.
A naturally aspirated engine needs less octane at higher elevations.. You can advance your timming some to make up for thinner air. I think you loose 40% of your power at 10,000 feet // Denver is at 5,000 feet
Mike Skidmore - I seem to remember the formula as 3% power loss per 1000 feet above 1000 feet. You also lose one point of compression per 5000 feet due to the lower atmospheric pressure. I’m at 7000 feet here- down 18% on air density/power, about 1.25 points in compression. We regularly see 90 octane here instead of 91 or 93...
@@murraehaynes3182 They always sold 85 Octane gas in Denver too .. I built a 350 Chevy with 9 to 1 compression for my Winter beater Ski Bum car with headers and econmy intake and spread bore 450 cfm carb I got 21 MPG on the Highway in a 1973 Chevy Chevelle I used the 64 cc heads from my 1970 Motor .. too bad I did n't have flat top pistons instead of dished pistions .. I put on the 64 cc heads to replace the 76 cc head.. My 1970 Chevy Impla had 10.25 to compression and ran ok on 87 Octane leaded gas in MI at 900 feet
The general rule of thumb is that the octane requirement drops about 1 point for each 2,500 feet (800 meters), this ONLY applies to naturally aspirated engines.
I once filled a full tank of premium into a suzuki boulevard designed to run on regular. The bike didn't want to ride, engine shut down on high revs. Had to empty the tank and fill up again with regular. Worked fine after that.. Learned a lesson for the years to go..
I interviewed gas company chemest saying what you're saying. He told me another interesting point I'll share here. Octane boost isn't measured from 87-88-89... 87.1 to 87.2 to 87.3 to 87.4... so if you're thinking your increasing by "ones" your not! Your measuring in 1/10s (tenths). Another interesting fact I learned? What affects to using Too much octane booster in fuel mix? O2 sensor an sparkplug till take on reddish color! I know when my mix is too high concentration down shifting down hill, heading the exhaust pipes back pressure! So at next gas stop I just adjust more or less fuel per mix in tank.
I only fill my bike up with “premium”. Due to EU regulations all other types of gasoline contains 10% ethanol. And running that on an older carburated bike is just asking for trouble.
I run the cheapest 87 I can find in my '82 Honda XL 500. I've never had any issues. It's a low compression ratio on that engine and I'm convinced it would run on 50/50 water/fuel 😂
Roy Godiksen It can be a good idea to store machinery with non ethanol fuels over the winter as ethanol attracts moisture. The octane rating makes no difference whatsoever.
Use premium so the ethanol doesn’t sit in the tank during storage. Your bike doesn’t need the octane unless the owners manual calls for it. Yes use stabilizer if your bike will be sitting for mor than a month
Here in Slovakia we have the standard fuel, which is marked as 95 and premium which is 100. What sucks is that the 95 contains up to 10% ethanol, which is no bueno for older engines, as the ethanol really harms fuel lines (especially during winter hibernation). That's more or less the only reason I put premium in my tank, I really don't wan't to damage my bike (2004 Suzuki SV1000S) with some garbage EU forces us to put in our tank. edit: premium fuel usually contains little to no ethanol
