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hi guys! Certified Subaru Salesperson here :) GREAT JOB!! only thing I caught which is extremely easy to miss is the Subaru Touring Forester does NOT have homelink.
Toyota's hybrid system's cost performance remains remarkably strong. Subaru's upcoming hybrid will also use the Toyota system, so we're looking forward to it.
toyota will only give subaru a gimped hybrid version, in other words its not gonna be as good as a rav4 hybrid or will probably use a last generation hybrid system that gives lower mpg. forester is a full time awd, awd = piss poor mpg. stop dreaming.
@@LostUndertheSky I just say Subaru will be improved. Toyota have a highly efficient Atkinson cycle ICE and no propeller shaft in E-Four. It's shameless to proudly claim what is obvious…
I’m very happy with my 2024 RAV4 hybrid Limited here in NZ - haven’t seen the new Forester but as a past owner of 2 Foresters, I know they’re good. Hybrid system in Rav is great - I’m averaging 5.5 L/100
Leased a Subaru and it was be my last. 2019 Subaru Legacy with oil consumption issues. They refused to do an oil consumption test and just did free oil changes until my lease was over. The service manager literally said they are not allowed to do oil consumption test unless it’s severe. Mine was burning about a quart every two weeks. I wonder what severe was!?!?! Toyota all day. Now own a 2022 Camry Hybrid LE and it’s great.
Yup, I own a Subaru and it consumes 1qt per 1k miles. And sometimes more. I’m the only one still checking oil level at every gas fill-up like it’s the 60’s. Love the AWD system, but I wish. Subaru would just get its engine (or transmission) together.
Enjoyed your videos. I drive a 7-8 year old Subaru Outback. I really like that it has auto-dimming rear view mirrors (optional). They make driving at night a lot better, without getting glares. This option is something that most cars in the price range don't even offer. A lot new luxury vehicles offer the feature only on drive side mirror. I think you should consider in your feature comparison. :-)
We have both. The forester is much easier to get in and out for older less flexible people. The RAV has more power ,better fuel injection system and is more fuel efficient.
Three other items in the Forester's favor: 1. You can simply walk in and buy the Forester off the lot, with no dealer markup. Doing so with an XSE Hybrid is highly unlikely. Dealer markups on hybrid Toyotas are legion, and they never seem to have the specific color/trim/packages that you want in stock. 2. The Rav4 is due to be replaced next year with an "all new" model, so your brand-spankin' new 2024 Rav4 will soon be the "old" model, inside and out, whereas this new Forester is the new model. 3. You can order a Forester from your dealer exactly the way you want it, again, with no dealer markup. You can't do spec orders with the Rav4. You have to choose from the dealer's allocation, and possibly then fight other customers to get that specific vehicle. Three items in the Rav4's favor: 1. No CVT. The gas model uses a conventional eight-speed automatic tranny. The hybrid uses a virtually bombproof e-CVT that shares no parts or design elements with a conventional CVT. 2. D-4S dual port/direct injection. Prevents carbon buildup on the intake valves that results from direct injection-only fuel injection like the Forester's. 3. Far more long-term reliable powertrains. While the recent Forester motors have become less prone than before to leaks and other issues, any of the three Rav4 powertrains have more proven track records for trouble-free longevity.
I own a 2019 RAV with 100,000 miles on it. We plan to buy a Forester within a year after the hybrid arrives. When you compare a hybrid vs. a non-hybrid, you should consider the additional price and the payout time for the hybrid vs. a non-hybrid. We think the Forester AWD is far superior and the steering is much better; it is a better value.
Most people who buy RAV4 don’t even need that 4WD superiority from Subaru. That’s why it sells like a hot cake. Regardless Subaru is a good choice for driving dynamics and 4WD system.
i agree. i drive a crv hybrid 2024, and the honda hybrid system is not as good as a rav4 hybrid that came out 5+ years ago. the mpg is lower in the crv hybrid compared to the rav 4 hybrid. i can't wait to see wh at toyotoa will announce with their next rav4 redesign.
We just got a 25 forester touring as a loaner from our Buick dealership while our Buick is being repaired. Overall, it's pretty nice. But I don't notice the ventilated seats at all while driving. I'm also not a big fan of the seats. But I also have 2 batteries in my lower back. The seats cause a lot of pressure points right where my stimulator batteries are. I am certain than for most though, the seats will be very comfortable. The tech in the forester is pretty impressive for it's price in my opinion. I hate the cvt, but will admit, you don't notice it during daily city driving. Only at highway speeds do you notice the drone from it. All in all, if I didn't have the batteries in my back, I would buy one.
Love your videos but how is comparing a Hybrid to a gas powered car equals when is comes to mpg. I feel that if this is gonna be more objective and straightforward you should leave gas mileage out of consideration for points. But I do respect your choices and do think you guys are very helpful
For the price point, Subaru > Toyota. I had the 2022 RAV4 Hybrid XSE and it felt cheap with the road noise, fake leather, cheap interior, bland sound system, and finicky rear lift gate. $40k is much better spent on the Subaru!
You are aware the Subaru is a CVT. The Subaru CVT is a 100k to 125K mile Transmission. The Rav four is a 250k to 300k transmission. The Subi trans axle is double the rebuild or replacement cost. The car can become instantly worthless at 100k miles. As long as Subaru offers ONLY CVT by their choice, I will consider them junk.
@@SageLakshmi They are not as reliable as a standard auto, the repair numbers say it loudly. I you chose to accept junk transmissions it will be your choice, not mine.
Impressed by your very detailed and informative comparison, which definitely saves me lots of time for my planned purchase next year: basically onto a Forrester Hybrid but would want to have some comparisons and to be sure. I found one thing you didn't compare the drivability or driving control. Subaru's low gravity shall make it a clear winner and gain more points.
@@SebastianMonroe-yd3nu I know they are not same but price wise can get Rav4 hybrid XSE trim for the same price of touring trim of forester, that's why I said. Even if you compare it with the gas version of Rav4, the forester is much underpowered and less reliable power train and high maintenance costs comparatively.
@@Gopinathk17 it dont matter anyways, soon all 100% gasers will be gone. you will either be sportin a gas/elec, hydrogen/elec, nuc/elec, footin on foot or ridin a horse like the old days.
The Forester is not only the safest but the best handling on wet or snowy roads because of its AW all time drive system. It's by far the reason Subaru buyers are so loyal to Subaru. Once you spend time in one the competition does not feel right. Another note is usable space with the rear seats folded down as the Rav has a sportier forward rake on the back that loses valuable cargo camping space. My final note is that the Subaru has much greater visibility because of its larger windows and rear design. The fuel mileage difference is significant. Except you must compare apples to apples the real purchase price of the RAV Limited is almost $4000 more than what you can actually purchase the Forester Touring. You must figure how long it takes to recoup the $4,000 at 12 mpg savings. I drive a 2022 Forester Touring. If Subaru fails to hold the price down on the Hybrid it is a no go for me as a future purchase. Note: you can get into the lowest base model Forester for as low as $31,000 delivered and still have full safety features.
I owned three Foresters and said I didn't need a turbo. Then one day the dealer offered me a ridiculous trade-in price for my 2019 Forester on a '22 Outback Wilderness, which comes with the turbo engine. I would never go back! I really wanted a Forester Wilderness, but won't get one without the turbo.
@@stephenrosenfeld833 Yup. I got the Forester XT back in 2014, and am struggling to find a suitable replacement. I could live with the lesser acceleration of a RAV4, but the lack of content at the price point is a trade-off. But yeah, this Forester is barely adequate on power. You really feel it once you get over about 50 mph, then it just has no punch. FYI, the Forester Wilderness uses different gearing (same 2.5 engine though), which gives it better acceleration (at the price of mpg). But that suspension/wheel/tire combo felt too mushy vs the other trim levels. Not worth it if you don't off-road or need your roof rack to carry a 700 lb static load. I think the Outback Wilderness has gearing that makes it quicker than the other XT Outbacks too. I was almost ready to pull the trigger on the '24 Touring Forester, which is being offered for pretty good prices, but I just couldn't see myself being happy with the gutless drivetrain. Back to the drawing board on the car search. Kind of hesitant to jump into a new RAV 4, because I'm seeing that the '25 model year will be all new. Ditto the CX-5 over in Mazda world. Subaru drivetrain engineers need to burn some midnight oil to get the hybrid coming soon.
Toyota quality is not the same anymore as 20yrs ago. For this comparison, I will pick Subaru for two reasons: 1. Its eyesight safety is the best 2. It made in Japan.
I prefer the Forester for safety all around. Exclusive Symmetrical all wheel drive. Hybrids are good in the city/ frecuent stops help to improve gas mileage. In the highway, the story is different; no gain. More weight to carry over.
Although the Forester has a larger infotainment display, it’s arguable the usable viewable area is smaller for maps as it’s in portrait mode, and parts of the screen is permanently dedicated to HVAC controls.
The CRI threw off the final CRI for Rav4 15 yrs/250K mile multiplier is 1.65 vs 1.2 for Forester. So we need to exclude the CRI as most owner don't keep their car for 15 years/250K miles!
so without a hybrid in the Rav4 the Forester will kill it! also my brother has a 2 year old Rav4 hybrid and he is getting 22mpg, not so great on real life application
Gonna tell you one thing. I’m 6’6 and I don’t fit in a rav4 at all. As a passenger I can squeeze but my knees hit the wheel to drive so keep that in mind. I do fit everywhere in the forestor.
I don’t get the part why the forester gets .5 point for $500 price difference. Gas alone would save you more money in a long run + 2 free year Toyota care.
Thanks for the great reviews! I just bought a 2024 Subaru Forester Touring, as I kind of like the features over the new 2025. Please do a sound test locally so we can get a comparison. Also, on your "sound test chart" you have a smile rating....what is the basis???
You may want to research the TCV valve on the '2020-2024 Forester.... keep an eye on it. The '25 Forrester got rid of the TCV thankfully....for some Odd reason they kept it on the Outback. It was the main reason I chose Forester over Outback.
Honestly if u want more power Subie ain’t it I have the 2017 xt trim in my view the best trim bc of that engine but the forester isn’t that flashy model it’s a basic do almost everything suv
@@johnfranktullo3463 At 30k, the competition has better powertrains, even if the Forester is superior in other respects. It's not like Subaru does not have better powertrain options available.
@@johnfranktullo3463 outback has a turbo. In terms of competition, every other manufacturer has a hybrid option that gets better mpg. Some get better mpg and are faster.
Being a 6 times Subaru's owner, my next will not be Subaru anymore. Main reason is in my country, dealer are not bringing in any turbo model but all the boring and NA model. My next likely will be Hybrid and there's only 1 Hybrid king in the market and that is Toyota. Another reason is Subaru seems to ditch turbo variant. I'm not sure why there's no turbo model for Forester but they bring it back to Outback.
Turbo impacts engine longevity. If you regularly trade in your cars, no issue, but if you want a vehicle that can go 200k or more, turbo is a liability
Для тех кто не любит вариатор ... Прочитайте про коробку xa 50 которая стоит на rav и вы будете неприятно удивлены какие проблемы с ней на 70 миль пробега. Многие на нее плюются и говорят что вариатор тойота ходит дольше чем АКПП на порядок. Те надежные 4 ступенчатые АКПП ушли в прошлое.... И это общая проблема что и dsg на Volkswagen.
Subaru sound system sounds terrible with too much bass and tinny treble, and no midrange but since you used different music we don't know if it was the song's fault.
I test drove the new model rav4 when it came out and at 5'11" it felt a little cramped up front, I did think the camera in the mirror was cool though. On the other hand I've driven a newer model Forester recently and it is super roomy up front, both with head room and the distance the wind shield is away from the driver. It reminded me a lot of the 2005 Scion xB I used to own. I currently own a 2017 Outback and it feels just right.
I would appreciate a measurement of how fast the car heaters work. Alaska winters are cold! Typically Suburus are great but I would like to see comparisons.
I’m on the same exact boat. For weeks I’ve been obsessing and reading everything about hybrids to educate myself. My spouse has a wilderness. I loved it but boy the mpg SUCK. I tested both the hybrid RAV4 2024 and the Forester 2025. I event rented the RAV4 hybrid SE for a full day. I’ll say: I started leaning much more on the hybrid than the Subaru because of the insane amount of mileage people can put in that car and saving on gas would be incredible. However I keep coming back to the Forster. My plan? Get the Forester 2025, keep it for 5 years and hopefully they the Forester hybrid ❤
lol, how is a rav4 that came out in 2018 so much better, has better mpg than thenew forester 2025. how the hell does subaru forester have a piss poor mpg. the mpg is practically the same as last generation forester models, roflmao. i fucking drive a Honda crv hybrid and i know the rav4 hybrid that came out in 2018 is still better than the new crv hybrid model in terms of mpg and interior tech. even if subaru forester implements a hybrid system from toyota, it's not gonna be as good as the actual rav4 hybrid system. subaru awd is kinda overrated and useless to be honest. 99% of people don't really need it. it's just added maintenance cost. a fwd with proper tires is still better than awd with touring tires.
The Forester lacks the passenger shelve that the RAV4 does have and also the lack of physical knobs for the HVAC is a huge disadvantage for the Forester... *they both suck regarding approach angles...
Conventional engine (ICE) is better compared to Hybrid like almost all cars nowadays. Nothing to worry about if look after it and change the oil periodically without fail. Less fuel consumptions for Hybrid considered nothing if it is time for you to change batteries. Moreover service charges for repair, cost you a lot more than the conventional engine!!!
Interesting how most comparisons I find the objective points somehow add up to the same, or extremely close. So it really comes down to specific features you like and style. It also makes it difficult to compare a hybrid from one manufacturer to a gas only in another manufacturer as hybrids will usually give more power for the same mpg etc. Plus Toyota owns about 16,5% of Fuji Heavy Industries which is the parent company of Subaru, so of course they don’t want to cannibalize their own sales.
Personally I'd go with Forrester... I prefer its looks more than the softer Toyota look they've been doing for a long time, and its a bit more cramped in the driver seat from what I've experienced. I debate on going hybrid....sure you get more HP and you save on some maintance and gas, but you kind of kick the costs down the line for when the battery or e-cvt needs fixing down the line - basically looking at traditional transmission repair costs. Subaru's are pretty reliable and have better saftey and real AWD. Not a beast fort sure, but the additional maintancese and gas use does hurt it. But you will get more bang for your buck and their interest rate is way lower than Toyota's lately who don't care if you walk out the door lately.. Its a tough call and you can't go wrong with either. It comes down to preferences really
I rented a RAV4 for two weeks. Seats were hard as a rock, terrible understeer, and not a good highway machine. The Sub? If you love getting beeped at constantly for random unknown stuff, you'd love it. Not a fan of either really. The Edge was great, and I'm not a Ford guy.
Sad how they butchered the redesign IMO. It's an Explorer clone now. The previous design was so much better. Took it off my list because of it. Just can't get over the front end.
Great video. The problem with Hybrid that people don't take into account is the cost of the car + ownership time. The only way you're breaking even on your money with Hybrids is if you own the car for about 7 - 10 years depending on which year you got it. I always feel this should be addressed. I just wish Toyota would update their RAV 4 design. I personally think it's just outdated and the interior just feels plastic like to me.
Aren’t most people buying these cars to last? I know I expect to be running my RAV4 for ten years plus, especially given that, here in the UK at least, we get a 10 year warranty so long as it’s serviced by Toyota.
@@Akeldama626 What a strange place they USA is, in most countries the governments actually incentivise buying hybrids and electric cars over gas guzzlers.
