Shredding is a Waste of Time in 2024...(But I Do It Anyway) 

Shredding is not easy and there is something magical about seeing someone shred on a guitar, it does not feel the same when a keyboard player or a horn player plays fast, but when a guitarist shreds it's magical, always feels like he's doing something others can't, even after all these years I like seeing guitarist shred, it never gets old. John keep Shredding 🙂

You have the best of both. Shred with feeling!

There's a big difference between being a technically skilled guitarist and being a good musician. It's like comparing a dictionary and a good writer. One has all the words, and the other knows how to use them.

For me, I'd like to be able to play fast, because it's one of the parameters of contrast - fast slow, gentle, aggressive, soft, loud etc. It's nice to have the range of ability so that you can put variety in your playing. Just listen to many orchestral pieces and you'll hear the violins for instance playing some really fast stuff from time-to-time. It's not an end in itself, but part of the pallette of things that can be done.

Nothing musical is a waste of time. Any technique can be mishandled or overdone. Serve the song, and you can't miss.

Haven't got into your chat yet, but I would say any 8 bars of what you played in this video as part of a charting 80s or 90s funk-pop song would have made you a world-famous guitarist John. Now it'll get you a few thousand appreciative nods of the head on RU-vid.

Shred is an art form, some do it well and some don’t.

I'm 42 and still learning to shred without apology. I've always had feel, but over the last 5yrs I've gotten deep into music theory and still chase the shred. Even if it's just for me to impress my guitar player friends.

Guitar is about expressing yourself, having fun, and doing what feels good. Though I try to do my own thing, I always think: "What Would Prince Do?" Prince could shred while improvising but it was always for a burst of unpredictability and showmanship, but he always dialed it back down, always remained unpredictable. For me, I get bored after a few seconds of shred, but that's just me. My personal opinion is that a good guitar solo is varied, unpredictable, mixing fast/slow, explore a tiny bit of dissonance, and have a definitive climax and resolution.

Interestingly my initial interest in guitar came from my exposure to flamenco. The flamenco players are the original shredders in my opinion. The classical community kind of talks about flamenco much like modern guitarists talk about shredders. There is no doubt that playing fast demonstrates virtuosity and requires talent and tons of work.

Shred done right can take a solo to the next level. However, too many of us (myself included) have facility limited to a selection of preprogrammed lines or techniques that are highly predictable. Combine that with poor placement and lack of variation in note delivery, and you've just created an Instagram guitarist.

Context is everything

Love your playing mate. Good stuff

He’s heating up! He’s on fire! 🏀🏀🔥🔥

Great playing in that opening John. I love the slidey, Chirpy stuff the best. And the Triad, doubles too, Love your Chord work . I get more from that than the faster stuff.

I wish I had practiced more shredding when I began my guitar journey. I was listening to a lot of Malmsteen and Satriani too, but playing mostly blues and some fingerpicking. I totally agree with the comment you mentioned, and I feel like it is harder to improve in those areas now. Regarding the music I enjoy, it is hard for me to be captivated by a 3-minute high-speed, ultra-technical solo, but I really appreciate bits of that. Some Eric Johnson might be a great example.

I’m going to be real. I think the masses are impressed by fast playing, and so for a musician to chime in and say they aren’t playing with “feel” is a way to differentiate themselves from the common listener, when in fact they themselves can’t play it. I’ve seen that, but what this comes down to is soloing, improvised or written, is largely subjective. I’d say it’s an 80% “taste/genre/this is what I like” and 20% “man I don’t really dig the _____ but it’s undeniable the playing is solid and technically sound. Playing with feel comes from an understanding and experience with your instrument. Shredding and playing fast comes from years of dedication and hard work. You need both to create the “perfect” solo. Some genres lend themselves to being perceived as soulful. Like blues and jazz and rnb. But one can play blues licks all day and I can always tell if they know what they’re doing or not. I equate it to them lying or pretending. Metal/prog rock/ fusion is some of the hardest skill playing to reach. Just because it isn’t played behind sad music doesn’t mean it lacks “feel” In conclusion it’s all subjective, based on preconceived notions of what the listener thinks, and most of the time, the listener has an inflated sense of self worth when it comes to how their opinion should be weighed on an issue.

You are right that the very best guitarists have both skill sets - Duane Allman, Stevie Ray Vaughan, and Derek Trucks are the top of my list! By the way, one bit of advice the 14 year old you may have gotten & mastered fully is “How to Write Great Click Bait”!!

I think shred is another tool in the toolset that can be used effectively. Some might over prioritise it. But when used in the right way can sound epic. Agree with everything you said btw.

I'm not a shredder and at 73 I'm not going to become one, but I appreciate hearing some shredding mixed in with not-so-fast melodic parts. And I find it interesting to learn shred techniques so that I can play 3 to 5 notes fast in the middle of a slower part. But pure shredding? Nah, too boring for me.

Even if shredding is pointless, most guitar players still love it 😍❤🎸

Soloing on guitar in real gigs, is the same now as it has always been. It's a bit like surfing,( in more ways than one), because the amount of time,as a surfer, that you actually spend standing up and riding the wave, is tiny. Most of your day will be driving to the beach, waxing the board, paddling out through the sets of waves, waiting for a suitable wave, making sure someone else isn't already on it, paddling with all your might to match the speed of the moving water, and if you're lucky, you might get a ride and manage a move or two before wiping out or turning back to go out and try again. Most of your time as a musician is packing gear, driving to the venue, loading in and setting up, and having a brief sound check if you're lucky. Next you launch into the set and may have a wave to ride in a part of some of the songs, where you have to ride the underlying rhythm and harmonic structures with timing and line moves for an instant..... then back to the pizza base to support the vocal or head melody again. It is the moment we all value, but can exist only if we prepare the base on which to dance well, and even then we have only seconds to come up with something good. Clapton said soloing was like someone just pushed you from behind a curtain or door onto the stage, and suddenly you've got to do an act. Although in your mind as you approach the moment you've gone over and over all the approaches you could take, the moment is a blur, and all you can do is start singing through your instrument, and before you know it, the moment's gone. Eddie V/H said it was sort of like falling down the stairs, but hopefully landing on your feet,( presumably with an undpoken "Ta Da!!! Some try to avoid falling on their face by trying to present a pre-fabricated assemblage of licks they know will fit, but this always sounds contrived, and is obviously not improvisation... which was supposed to be the whole point of soloing anyway. Like a boxer, you have to train and spar much more than your actual time in the real bout, but also you realise that to have a chance of delivering the KO blow, you must dance and spar endlessly to be in the right position to set up the winning blow. To improvise properly you must have the practice of needed skills ready to meet the moment with strength when it comes, but it will never come if you don't have the ancillary skills and moves to manoeuvre yourself into the best position, so neglecting those factors is like practising Yngvei licks at double speed, til you've got them cold, but neglecting to gas up your vehicle to get to the venue.

Brian may I think is amazing at floating around the meter in a song with his lead playing / he falls behind and then goes way ahead of the beat (is it kind of flamenco style?- dunno how to describe it but he’s the only player I can think of who does it - listen to “Death on two legs” by Queen and the intro guitar solo does this. Some people I could watch shred all day. Greg Koch probably because his playing is so entertaining and witty (?)and never far away from being humorous. I like sax players and I suppose they shred too .. Coltranes giant steps is basically shredding innit..nice.

EVERYONE would love to shred but some just don’t have the commitment to get the chops…. It’s about light & shade…. True composition

Interesting. Love a bit of shred. Outside of our little guitarist glass bowl, a lot of new music doesn’t even have a guitar solo, but lots of guitars doing textures and fills setting a mood. So realistically, apart from kinda side genres, shred is a bit away from a comeback. You playing is awesome by the way, shred or not!

I think the best thing to focus on is learning your way around the fretboard, and let the speed come naturally.

In my experience, the people that say shredding is a waste of time are usually the people who cannot shred.

I've been getting serious about shredding just the last few years. I retired and now I methodically practice 3 notes per string, tapping etc after being more of a "feel" player for something like 50 years. I'm having a load of fun and I still devote time to the feel thing too.

I do wish I had gotten into shred stuff earlier. It’s hard to change to that style when you start later in life.

If you can shred. Do it. Most of us can’t. 🎉😂

As usual, Pat Metheny has the answer to everything. Its all about context - that is to say - a tune. Most, if not all PM's tunes are really just platforms for shredding but its in an all round bigger story. And if your not that interested in the shredding - you still got a tune. Shredding works on RU-vid (I wonder if you were just listening instead of ''watching'' would it have the same impact), I find on a gig , it just sounds really small. No one really notices or cares. Whereas Angus Young at The River Plate drives everyone nuts with really simple solos. Simple makes you sound BIG.

Does it make you feel good? That’s the point right there.

I wish I had developed my shred game earlier on. Now I just sit back listening to Joel Hoekstra thinking of what could have been 😂😂😂😂

From what I’ve seen in real life (not internet trolls) is the people who think shred is pointless and not musical, are those who can’t do it themselves. Fast playing may not be what you like to listen to, but don’t crap on it because of your *jealous/bias* insecurities.

we don't criticize pianist, violin or other instruments for technical proficiency yet guitar has such a hang up on it - I get it the 80's was unique but lets just enjoy the music people

I really don't like shredding for the sake of it. Love a good solo, but I think the playing should almost emulate a conversation, with the phrasing and dynamics of one. Check out Larry Carltons intro solo to Steely Dan's 'Don't take me Alive', or any of Larry's solos really; they're all amazing, especially of course, 'Kid Charlemagne'!

My suggestion for those how are wanting to shed and play with feel at the same time (why should they be mutually exclusive?) if to check out bebop and postpob horn players. The popular names are ones like Dizzy Gillespie, Charlie Parker, early miles Davis and the experimentalist John Coltrane but for feel check out the Adderly brothers Nat and Cannonball, they are amazing and go in and out of pentatonics and bluesy stuff effortlessly. Of course there’s probably plenty of guitar players with feel and chops but I’m a horn player first and mostly so it’s what I know best

Countless times I've heard peopke say Jimmy Page was sloppy. Ugh: kinda. But he could play behind the beat, in front of it, and anywhere really, to create the feel the tune called for. And he created awesome backing tracks. That is the money.

The uncomfortable thing about shred is true of all compositions: Is it appropriate? Sometimes yes sometimes no. When it’s inappropriate it comes off as masturbatory. Audiences are not generally attracted to that, because at some point you have attempted to upstage the song. When it’s appropriate, it elevates the song and the audience can tell the difference even if they all aren’t musicians. I wish I could shred like Guthrie, but the reason a like him are all the other things he brings to the table: he has taste, can exercise some restraint and is unfailingly connected to what he is doing. Shred is a spice, not a topping. Composition is the meal.

If you are trying to shred and are miserable then yes it's a waste of time as long as you are having fun that's all that matters. If your shred practice isn't tightening your timing your doing it wrong.

I think you can just boil it down to one question: does it move you? All that matters in the end is whether it moves you. If it moves you, mission accomplished. Speed is just a means to an end, the end goal being to move yourself or the people who listen to you. I find people who gripe about shred are focusing on the means more than the end goal. If it doesn’t move them, fine, but music is subjective and no one thing moves everyone the same way, so why bother attempting to make that which is subjective into something objective? It’s futile and foolish. Anyway, rock on!

Shredding is a lot of fun. Of course a good vibrato, great tone and great time feel are paramount, but shredding just feels extremely fun. I think people who can't shred feel like the point of it is to show off, but it just feels good and very very fun!

I am the last guy... wish I could, but can't. I would always point to Eric Gales or Ian Thornley. If you think there is not shred with feel.

IMHO, it a time and a place scenario. Sometimes it calls for fast lead, sometimes slow (feely). For me, I prefer a mix of the two.

Shredding is a Waste of Time in 2024? LOL! It s maybe because you can't really shred...but we'll keep shredding, just because it's a personal fun, and i don't see what 2024 has to do with it;with this quote,you make a fool of yourself dude! long live Paul Gilbert & Malmsteen!

You have to honestly look at the music you enjoy listening to (with your ears, not watching). I know numerous shredders that like watching videos of it and enjoy the technicality but don't actually listen to any of that music. If you enjoy listening to shredding then it is great to spend time learning it, if not it is probably not the best usage of your time.

Everyone loves shreddy guitar solos. You’re mental … 😉

Having a high degree of technical skill does not equal musicianship. Just like having a car that can do 0-60 in 3 seconds and cruise at 150mph, technical skills need to be maintained. Just like that car, there are few opportunities to push it to the max in the majority of driving/playing situations. Some situations will arise where some of those high-level capabilities are necessary, and then it is great to use them in order to close out the situation safely and with grace and style.

Playing fast is useful...in context..to give light n shade and variety in a solo...lol

It's a silly argument or discussion, imo. From anyone. What it boils down to is A.) People should truly express his or herself in whichever manner he or she needs to fill the soul, and B.) Whichever manner you choose to play on either side of this proverbial coin, you will never please all listeners.

It totally depends. If you are a metal player, besides heavy/catchy/tasty riffs, the shred solo is an important part of music. It totally depends of the genre you play. But I mean, I don't see anyone complaining when Andy Timmons unleashes the beast during his slow and expressive tunes. It is another way of expressing an idea or your individuality as a player.

I think us guitar players love watching and listening to shredders. Unfortunately we alone wont pay the bills. 😅

Why does it have to be what are the other? It should be both and yes, some people overlay. And some of us players don’t have feelings and some do but you can sort those out pretty easily. Usually the people that can’t do. It are the ones that criticize it.

For me, when listening. A one bar flourish is fine. Two bars is enough. More than that is a yawn. Unless it's from a top player who can still 'Say Something" using Shred. Good solos balance Melody, Emotion, and Flash.

You gotta make the music that true to you, not for other people. Whatever you dig, play that.

When you're young, it's completely normal to like very energetic and flashy music. It is also completely normal as you mature, and gain much more life experience, to require a lot more from the music you listen to, and play. Enjoy your energetic flash, just know that it will mean less to you with every passing day, and that you will spend MUCH more time as a mature musician, than as a young one. . .

I was interested to hear what you said and thought you said some valid things… but I skipped the first 2’22”.

I'm a song guy and love a ripping solo that's in service of the song, but shredding just to shred is uninteresting to me and to be honest I'd say just about everyone I know would say the same.

No one except other guitarists give a 💩 about shredding, we've all been there when the crowd are just pissed up knobs screaming the lyrics at each other...... Or filming on their phone instead of watching with their eyes.

Wether you shred or not. THE MOST IMPORTANT thing is the songs. The context of what your blazing over. Take for example rick Graham. He's extremely fast but his ALBUMS ARE TOTALLY SONGS AND MELODIC AND SWEET. As far as vai I think his best stuff was IN A BAND. Balance is the key to everything

THe more tools the better

As my guitar said, 'you can play fast with taste, or not...'

Then you have Joe Satriani, Steve Vai of GG who shred and play tastefully. I can't see how the technical side and the feel are at odds. Not one bit.

you should make an album of your yt intros

I think the cynicism is that shredders aren't hearing what they're playing but just doing geometrical shapes with muscle memory. Joe Pass had a technical term for this behaviour - Bu**s**t. He said "I'd rather you just played the root notes of the chords". Pretty sure he meant that then at least you'd know what you were doing....

100% feel that we UNDERprioritize shredding. What is shredding after all? It’s technical prowess. Listen to a lot of new music today. Very few musicians play anything like rock, and the ones that work some rock into their pop tunes don’t do much in the way of shredding. So in my humble opinion, shred on, my man. The world needs more shredders. We’ve got enough sad dudes playing open chords.

It's better than sounding like tim henson. Shred to the end.

Im a recovering shredder. I feel like i have failed everytime i use my shred powers in a cover band..

Shredding is like being good at a video game. While its fun to watch, and neat to be good at, its useless. As a guitar player whos been doing it since the 80s, i dont enjoy hearing it.

Still having this tedious conversation in 2024? This issue is unique to the guitar. It's perfectly ok to play fast on a violin, keyboard, sax etc. but as soon as a guitar player does it, the shred police come out of the woodwork to tell you it sucks. Bending one note and holding it for 2 weeks does not equal feel. Playing with feel has nothing to do with speed. I would say most good art has some contrast to it and playing guitar should be no different. It's been said before many times but the ones who complain about shredding are the ones who can't do it. Shredders don't continuously complain about non technical players so why can't people just allow others to express themselves in the way they choose. Watch Nigel Kennedy play Vivaldi's four seasons, speed, technique and feel are all present!

Satan approves!

Bro, its a talent. if u can do it, dot it...just don't over do it 😀

I want to shred but don’t know the best way to train myself… who has advice??

Guitar is the only instrument where perhaps 90% of “guitar players“ can barely play, and so they use their insecurities to belittle musicians who are playing flashy stuff or pushing boundaries of what is possible. There is such a thing as “boring shred” but usually when people pull out the B.B. King remark, it’s just pure jealousy.

Nice)

The guitar hero is actually dead...those days are gone

😅😮

Shredding on the guitar is like yapping in real life. Just say something important that people will remember. Convey a message

I'm not a shredder anymore. Was when I was 14. Obsessed with Satriani, E Johnson, EVH. I think it's a good thing to have in your arsenal. But I don't think we need to go back to the 80s where the song formula became generic. What's funny? I believe there were better guitar players in the 70's 80's than all these kids who think that shredding (How can I be the fastest?) Not even clean. just speed. And rhat misses a huge part of it. I also they think that the songwriting is shit with this resurgence of guitar playing. "All you need is a red guitar, three chords, and the truth." - Bob Dylan