"Don't you dare take that away from your mother, she sacrificed herself." He's got a point you know, I'm no fan of monarchies, but the Queen sacrificed her life to save a girl she barely knew. That's noble.
He realized that the queen loved her children with a love he never knew from his own mother as she died when he was too young to remember and his father was killed by his uncle. He only knew a father's love.
Killmonger being a manifestation of Shuri's internal rage and grief was a genius move. The theater I saw this in literally gasped when that fakeout happened
Plus it’s something you can’t hide from do to his presence alone. If suri continues down that path she will become no better then her cousin. He was right with his cause, greaf and anger but he was to broken to see the faults and pitfalls of revenge. The unspeakable cost it would entail. At that point in time suri was no different then him
@@johnweebfpsI think everyone else has got it right. Killmonger was a brilliant choice considering the significant grief Shuri was facing. If T'challa was alive, we all know the story would have been different..there's always some sort of origin story featuring great loss for the hero, and for Shuri it was her mom's murder (as we didn't see that coming), and she was still grieving from the untimely death of her brother. A brilliant twist- my friends and I gasped. I was on the edge of my seat for this scene.
N’Jadaka did say “Before T’Challa”, meaning he had a form of respect for him, especially Queen Ramonda, when he said “And don’t you dare take that away from your mother.”, the fact she risked her life to save Riri from drowning.
It is interesting, isn't it? If you think about it N'Jadaka didn't really hate T'Challa personally. He hated him because he was T'Chaka's son and because he was the symbol of the nation that abandoned him, but if you think about it we never got the indication that he ever hated T'Challa for being T'Challa. And in the end, it after everything is said and done, it makes sense that N'Jadaka would respect T'Challa on a personal level. N'Jadaka always had an obsession with personal strength and drive, and in the end T'Challa's drive to stop him was greater than his drive to win. He may or may not respect or agree with T'Challa's personal beliefs, but he respects him as an individual because T'Challa had the strength to stand by his convictions
T'Challa did face him and his army down against overwhelming odds(at least at first) and he did fight him in the duel despite having every right to refuse him. Plus he allowed him to die in "peace" with respect.
T'Challa listened to him and opened up Wakanda, so he'd respect that. The same with Ramonda dying to save Riri, an African American. But he's also using their deaths to goad Shuri into giving into her rage, so who knows how far his respect for them went
I appreciate the respect kilmonger has for t'challa despite the fact that he did tried to kill him twice. But he thought he be like t'chaka but saw how t'challa was different. Saying he was to noble. I don't take that as a insult more like a flaw that kilmonger saw in him.
I can't blame Shuri for wanting revenge, Namor killed the only thing Shuri had to a family, but by dragging her people to their deaths for vengeance, it will make her no better than her cousin Killmonger before her.
@@thefallensoul9945 And thankfully, she woke up from her madness before she went too far and doomed their societies to war. "Vengeance has consumed us both." Over time, I have come to agree with a line from the first big-screen Punisher movie: "Revenge is an invalid emotional concept."
@@nerdtuga9180 Producers made it very clear from the beginning. They were not going to use CGI or Deepfakes, or anything else to capture the late Chadwick Boseman into the film. That's why they changed the story and shaped Shuri's image to want revenge for her mother's death.
If he became a recurring villain, they would find a way to make him stale and soft and then retroactively whitewash his crimes and the things that made him badass and complex, just like they did with Loki. Now Loki is just another boring good guy, who makes funny funny little jokes. I dont want that for Killmonger. I want him to stay twisted with sympathetic motives but messed up methods. So its better that he died and had this cameo.
@@zaxbitterzen2178agreed, but Killmonger gained respect for his cousin because not only did T’Challa show he was willing to do what was necessary (take him out), he also showed him the kindness and courtesy that Killmonger’s uncle didn’t when T’Chaka killed his brother. It was never shown on screen, but T’Challa did honor Killmonger’s request and gave him a proper burial. T’Challa had basically shown he was a better man and King than his father ever was. So despite attempting to murder him twice, Killmonger did gain respect for his cousin.
I did love this though. It makes sense that it would be him rather than her mother, father, or brother. She didn’t just need to be comforted, or to see her loved ones again. She needed to be reminded of what her new role was, and there was no one as equipped to address her pain and anger and direct it towards being a good leader.
What are you talking about? He gave her the worst advice possible, he said take care of business like me. AKA kill Namor, which was the worst thing she could have done for her country. It was M'Baku and the others who managed to talk her out of it, Killmonger made her worse. That was the point. that's why in the end when she spares Namor she sees her mother for a split second
@@jairusjackson7799 that's bc Killmonger here is more like a representation of her wrath and grief rather than a spiritual advisor, he's a cautionary tale for Shuri
@@jairusjackson7799 yes, but she was in greef and she was angry for everything, the dead of her brother, the dead of her mother. She actually blamed Killmonger of all of that, however he never said that she didn't have to be angry, actually Killmonger was exactly like her when he was alive, he was angry with all Wakanda. Suri need it to understands where her wrath need to be pointed. Suri and Killmonger take the fruit with the same desire: Vengence. Beside, Killmonger never lied to her: all what he said was true.
@@danielhaire6677 When he first speaks to T'Challa in the ancestral plane, he says It's hard to be a King and a good Man. That gives away his character
He never had issues with his family except his uncle, he wanted to be king so others like them would have a chance. I agree with both his and T'Challa's view on the matter: flooding vibranium weapons into black neighborhoods like where Erik grew up would have caused a lot of unnecessary violence but at the same time wakanda could have used their advanced technology to help the living conditions for those in the projects
@@danielz-v4083 yeah, most people who are familiar with the comics knew Mysterio was definitely hiding something, we just didn’t know exactly how and why he was like that until the bar scene
@@alpacawizardman6778didn't read the comics nor know anything about Mysterio before I watch FFH. I guessed it by the name itself, Mysterio. There's no way creepy name like Mysterio is not a villain. Like he's the "Mystery" that would confuse his nemesis in finding out the truth
I can’t help but think that in his own way, Killmonger was actually trying to convince Shuri not to go down the vengeance path or she’d end up a villain just like him. All his tough talk and aggression here might be him trying to hide his acknowledgement of the monster he became, mainly talking about how all his actions drove Wakanda to being better in the end. At 0:46 when he mentions the previous panthers before him were cowards, he adds "before T'Challa", showing N'jadaka has some respect for T'Challa to consider him different from his predecessors. Same thing with Ramonda at 1:02, approving how she helped the foreign outsider Riri when her husband didn't do the same for Killmonger. That led Erik to give his younger cousin a choice of being a hero like her brother that he respects (too noble) or a monster like him (take care of business). I could be over analyzing but it’s just an idea
It certainly could be. He knows that Shuri hates him, that she blames him above almost everything else for why her family is dead, that she at this point in her life so tempted to use violence and indiscriminate force to try and make the world to stop hurting her. And he knows that in doing so, she would become like him. So he puts the choice in stark contrast for her. You can give into that rage, that hate and hurt, and what is left after you've let it burn everything else away will be something you already know you hate, or you can try another path and see if you are strong enough to travel it.
I feel like since they didn't go the route of Killmonger corrupting Nakia and her becoming Malice as in the comics. This scene sort of replaces that dynamic. Swapping Nakia for Shuri.
She is correct about Kilmonger being the cause for her brother and mother being lost. All of that could have been prevented if he had not burned the herb or convince Wakanda to end its isolation.
@@madhatten00 what? Lol. Them saving Riri is unconnected to him burning the herb. She’s right he did that out of cowardice. Even if he won the challenge he could have ruled as King and let that be that. He made it impossible for any panthers to come after him by burning the herb. If you remove the burning of the herb but leave everything else in Riri still would have been saved because T’Challa still would have changed because of what he learned in the first movie.
Actually, it's technically t'chakas fault seeing as he killed killmongers father. I mean he's the black panther, I'm sure he could've disarmed jobu without killing him then leaving his son to fend for himself. Plus killmonger did win straight up so he is a King, as for him burning the herb, it was the "smart" thing to do as it made sure no one could challenge him and he saw the problem of the wakandans hiding while others suffered and chose to do something about it. As damaging as it was T'challa wouldve been a MUCH different king had he not realized how bad his father screwed up and he chose to help others because he didn't want any more killmongers. So Shuri while having a legit gripe, can't say it's all killmongers fault. She needed to vent and killmonger was the perfect guy since she hated him but was becoming him which was why she saw him on the plane
Meanwhile in another reality: Scar: Hypocrites? Those were the fools that came before me... the ones that came before Sim- Kiara: DON'T mention my father. You're the very reason he's dead. You killed him, left us with no king to protect us! Then Zira came and killed Sarabi, her blood, HIS blood rests on YOUR CLAWS! Scar: No... that wasn't my doing. Sarabi is to blame for her foolishness. Simba? He was far too noble and foolish a king. Now, what will you be, child? Will you be as noble as Simba? Or will you do what needs to be done, like me?
Killmonger is much more noble than scar. Scar took the throne for himself. Killmonger actually achieved his goal in the end. The wakandan outreach program wouldn't exist otherwise. To showcase and protect African children.
For me, their meeting was realised the moment the first Killmonger-y face details were shown. 1.I doubted they had Chadwick(RIP😪) come here as this script was an entirely different one than what they had before his condition was worsening. I doubt they had time to film that. 2.Why would her father appear? He would advise her in a wrong way, as it was wrong to kill his brother N'Jobu. 3. As for Ramonda.... I had a brief second of that idea over me, but it would be trying to stop her wish of revenge and make Shuri even angrier. Then, I thought that to see what she wanted to be wrong, she needed to be pushed by someone who she'd never believe of sharing similar traits with. And then...... (Not that I explained it to myself this thouroughly in the theatre)
If you will notice when Shuri is in the ancestral plane first she is inside water but she gets out but when she gets out she does not breathe heavily like how a person breathes when they get out of water when they are inside water for too long and even her clothes are not wet when she gets out of water. That is because she was in the ancestral plane and nothing actually happens to people who enter there. I guess clothes not getting wet or drowning or breathing heavily after coming out of water are also a part of it.
I really appreciate this scene, not because it made me feel good, quite the opposite really. I had a feeling Shuri wouldn't see Ramonda or any of her immediate family when she took the herb. How could she? As Kilmonger said, she didn't believe in the Ancestral Plain. She rejected the concept of any after life in front of her mother. Tchalla got to see the Ancestral Plain because he believed in it, he accepted it as his culture. Like Kilmonger, Shuri rejected this part of her culture and took the herb with no thought but vengeance. As a consequence, she unknowingly shut herself out of the Ancestral Plain, cutting herself off from her family and ancestors that were waiting for her there.
@predator9054 I don't know if you're agreeing with me. But Killmonger was the best part of the movie to me because he was always right. And he's the rightful King of Wakanda. He beat TChalla in ritual combat. Tchalla came back and the guards betrayed their King. They should've brought him back in BP2. He fit the role more to battle Namor with the unfortunate passing of Chad. We could've had him being an anti-hero but still be redeemable at the end by not killing Namor and leaving the throne to T'Challa's son as he teaches him how to fight and train for future endeavors. Instead we have another broken Kingdom. Sorry for the rant, I just dislike how they push Loki up and he gets a show when his reasoning for being the villain was worse than Killmonger.
He is one the anti villian that I cannot hate, He have a good reason to become a villian, wish he didn't have to trying to kill tchalla, Tchalla didn't know about that
Killmonger was wrong. From the moment he set foot in Wakanda, he caused nothing but destruction, division and violence and he would have spread that to the rest of the world. He had no interest in helping anyone.
It would’ve been SO MUCH better if they waited to show who she actually saw in the plane until later when she’s fighting Nemor. The payoff would’ve been so good
Sins of the fathers. T'challa and Erik were on a collision course. T'challa didn't want to kill family. Erik thought he _had_ to. They were both wrong. Shuri _might_ be able to continue Erik's interventionist policy without descending into Killmonger killfrenzy... By being motivated by compassion instead.
I appreciate that Killmonger did not speak ill of his late cousin T'Challa. Even though he said that T'Challa was "too noble", he meant that T'Challa always chose to be the bigger person. He didn't call him soft.
For being criticizable about the potential continuity issues associated with the Ancestral Plane, this scene might be the best in Phase 4. Not only does it force Shuri to question herself, but in the end, it also lets her sympathize with Namor's backstory a little more. "The world took everything away from me! Everything I ever loved!" -Killmonger, Black Panther (2018)
he died staying true to his beliefs, so his ancestral spirit would remain the same. tchalla literally said they could've saved him and he said no, he wanted to die.
He did change somewhat. Before, he was just angry. But here? He was still vindictive, but he understood. He saw the conviction in his family. He just didn't agree. He's still beyond redemption, but he at least understood things beyond pain.
If only they kept this part for later, it would’ve made a bigger impact to see why Shuri did what she did in the end, just to be surprised on who exactly did she talk to in the realm.
You can tell Killmonger's speech comes from him not from him gaining insight on what actually happened from the other ancestral panthers because yeah "T'Challa was too noble" is a lie since T'Challa spent most of Civil War on a quest for revenge against the man who he thought killed his father. It's only when he realized the truth and saw how much revenge had consumed him and how others were being used by it did he decide against it. And hell it was still a struggle at point. Like he was still ready to tear through Klaw when he caught him in the first BP and had to let go of some of that rage.
Well he did hand him over to Everett Ross in Civil War But killing is his way, he black panther did not sympathize with Zemo towards the end "I'm done letting it consume me" I feel like this bandanna guard is going to take evil Zeno into custody and maybe get a cameo from Chadwick Bose man This series was meant to be released in August which makes it even emotional She more than likely make an appearance in Episode 5 since the screenwriters said it's going to be a tearjerker unless if they did some re shoots like what they did in divisional St defining Evil unforgibvale Zemo crimes. it is pathetic lord of bake.
FACTS BRUH! That man has been casting MBJ since the start of his movie directing debut: Fruitvile Station. Ryan keeps promoting the fk out of him. And me personally its annoying. I wouldnt be shock if Ryan Coogler's next gig is a Bronze Tiger live action movie with MBJ YOU'VE GUESSED IT as The Bronze Tiger.
I’m still confused as to how burning the herb had something to do with T’Challa death cause he was still the black Panther at the end of the first movie…
She tried to synthesize the herb again at the beginning of the movie because she thought it would save her brother from whatever disease was taking him. She failed. But she only had to do that because Killmonger burnt the original herbs.
@@ozzyisra Yeah. She wanted him to take it again. Apparently thinking a fresh dose would help him. Probably like a booster shot. Or a new shot of penicillin.
@OZZY The point is The Herb could have save his life, Herb is like a instanly antidote to wakandian and all the Herb is burn so oof nothing you can do save him from disease, And we all know the reason why he die because the actor die and alot people don't want him to replace a actor
@@PlaystationGamerZX Yep. That's real life. But to answer you question: In the movie she wanted to use the herb to save her brother and blames Killmonger for burning them so that wasn't an option. That simple.
If he’s in the ancestral plane, I wonder if Killmonger and T’Challa ever hang there together. Besides his dad, N’jdaka hates everyone else (the other panthers) there, whom all would disregard him as an outsider. But T’challa is the only one who understood his cousin’s injustice and pain, as well as having Erik’s respect. In another life (most likely somewhere in the multiverse) they could’ve been like brothers . So it’d be a nice thought that N’jdaka didn’t have to spend his eternal afterlife completely alone
I love this scene right here. Cause I honestly did not think we were gonna see Killmonger again. He was killed by T’Challa during the first movie in 2018 then 4 years later he unexpectedly appears in this movie during this scene in the spirit area. This has got to be the number one best scene in the movie. 🔥🔥🔥
I think killmonger did meet shuri in the ancestral plane because otherwise he wouldn't talk respectfully of T'Challa and the queen And talk very negatively of the past panthers
"Your father? He was a hypocrite, he would've killed that girl...shit, he killed his own brother." N'Jadaka knew he couldn't let T'Chaka's folly on Oakland slide.
Me : Killmonger is a good villain because all his actions are justifiable and true, T'chaka murdered his father, and could've taken him to Wakanda and use the Wakandan resources J'Nadaka's community, his mother's community, but no, he just left, T'challa was even angry at his own father for what happened. So, everything he said is true- Killmonger : T'challa was too noble. He let the man who murdered your father live. Me :.... get my man's name out youR DAMN MOUTH
I got caught Completely off guard when i saw him because i thought she would see T'challa and learn a life lesson of keeping the family's legacy , but That was a great scene tho
Seems like the one he has the highest respect for is the queen. It goes like this Queen, T’challa, and King (T’chaka). I love how he acknowledges T’challa as not a coward but the panthers before him like T’chaka are.
I wished he had lived at the end of the first movie, he could have been another foil much like Loki, often causing trouble but also on occasion serve as an allie
Such a great choice to have him here, both a solid push for Shuri's development and also good to see him be recognized as legitimate in his bloodline and views by the gods.
Well he did hand him over to Everett Ross in Civil War But killing is his way, he black panther did not sympathize with Zemo towards the end "I'm done letting it consume me" I feel like this bandanna guard is going to take evil Zeno into custody and maybe get a cameo from Chadwick Bose man This series was meant to be released in August which makes it even emotional She more than likely make an appearance in Episode 5 since the screenwriters said it's going to be a tearjerker unless if they did some re shoots like what they did in divisional St defining evil z emo crimes. it is pathetic lord of bake.
I love how we got used to Disney pulling CGI people, so when it turned out they weren't going in that direction, it actually made a nice twist with her character arc.
I hate the hate against killmonger in this family, he's family and t'chaka left him in the states alone with no family and then wonder why he's angry and vindictive, he never got the love he should have gotten as a child and they look at him disgust and hatred as if he did something wrong.
Yep, I expect to see Erik Killmonger in Wakanda's version of Hell. If the ancestral plane is Wakanda's version of Heaven depending on the sins of the Wakanda native.
@@courtneytaylor3414 Not only you, he meant everyone cause he's been around the world fighting his cause. But that is definitely a bigger concentration in North America
@@brooksbelle7517 The Talokan people were never lost, they’ve hidden their existence. You can’t be lost and only a few even know your name, even agent Ross said it’s a country they don’t have intel on or know the military capacity to take them on 🤷🏿♀️
What would happen if Shuri became just like Killmonger? Would she have thrown Namor into a Volcano 🌋 just like how Killmonger threw her brother into the bottom of the waterfalls?
Inspired choice to have Killmonger be the one Shuri sees. During the First Black Panther movie, we can tell she is not a fan of tradition like everyone else is.
