Sideways Chicago vs. Tilted Toronto: Great Lakes Urbanism Showdown 

Meters? Are you Canadian?

@@Paul-el4zd Yes, we live in Montreal.

@@OhTheUrbanity Make sense. Well you Canadian should switch back to the imperial system -lol. 😉 The British are starting to use the imperial system again.

@@Paul-el4zdthe British never stopped using imperial. We adopted metric because it makes more sense & is easier to use. The rest of the world uses metric why should we switch away?

Toronto is seeing a super tower boom, and will best Chicago very soon in the tall building department.

We visited Boston a few years ago and enjoyed it. Would be fun to get back sometime.

@@OhTheUrbanity we beg you to not do seatle/portland vs vancouver, because the us side will be absolutely crushed and lose in every single category.

Montreal would win that hands down

Would be more interesting honestly. Chicago and Toronto are both pretty mid when it comes to urbanism but Montreal and Boston are actually top tier

@@sjasonwang7384 Yeah, Boston is just...an endless source of frustration these days.

Why...? The train journey would maybe take 8 hours or even more and flight would take less than 2 hours.

So you will be born in 2034! 🎉

@@dennyc9159I think you missed the words HIGH SPEED rail, which means it’ll be as fast as flying, even faster if you compare boarding times, border checks, etf

@@dennyc9159 you’re correct that hardly anyone would take the entire route from Chicago to Toronto, but that’s fine because there are enough mid-sized population centers between them to warrant improved services along the route. Connecting Chicago to Detroit and Detroit to Toronto, and putting stops in the small to mid-sized cities like Ann Arbor and London ON, would be the primary goal, but having some trains run the entire route would provide a good alternative to driving or flying, especially if your start point or destination doesn’t have international flights. We did a research project in grad school on potential HSR mainline corridors (not including spurs) in the US and Canada. We only found a few that were viable, ie the Acela corridor, SF to LA. Chicago-Detroit-Toronto was next, with improved efficiency if branch lines to Montreal, Buffalo, Milwaukee etc were eventually built. Texas Central, which is more likely to actually happen over the next couple decades, was ranked lower than that corridor because there are so few dense population centers on the route between Houston and Dallas that could feed into the system, and also because both of those cities have abysmal local transit services, which makes getting around after your train ride a complete pain. Not to say that one isn’t worth building, but Texas needs to stop screwing around and densify their cities if rail is going to work there.

@@dennyc9159 Not really! high speed rails are much faster than you may think, going up to 300km/h or 200mph, covering the 800km or 400 miles in around 3 hours. Also, Booking, commute to the airport and luggage bleed hours for planes, while rail can come more frequently and board on and off more efficiently. Though, Funkenstein's sarcasm does remark the obvious, we won't see any of this infrastructure soon. High speed rail is very expensive and this route is only going to serve a very specific demographic.

LOL!! Toronto is a dysfunctional dump.

I hate them both! Gross! Oceans are where it’s at bruv

@@iamzuckerburgerwhat did the great lakes do to bro

According to India , Toornto is the best city . According to Tom TOm traffic index 2023 Toronto ranked the 3 worst traffic and polluted city in the world . Toronto subway is old, noisy and falling apart like all the roads. Toornto has a blend architecture , no identity, high crimes, homeless and drugs everywhere . Chicago is the most sustaianble city and the best architectureand culture ( Identity )

@@user-iw4jl6bc8h This bot is making up some bullshit. Can't even spell lol. Toronto is superior in quite literally every way. Fastest growing city in NA for a reason

Politicians don’t care about people

Toronto has no identity , no soul, no creativity, horrible subway falling apart and has more in commun with India .

They do exchange ideas, we have had a signed sister city agreement since 1991. Toronto Mayor Rob Ford had quite a famous trip to Chicago in 2012.

We have lived here for almost 4 years, and every year I see more and more families biking in our neighborhood (including us!). Chicago still has a long way to go but it gets so much better every single year. I’m excited to see what it looks like in 10 years if this pace keeps up

I heard talk of an extension of the Dickens Greenway to the 606 trail. I hope it happens because that would make for an awesome east-west bridge. Much better than any of the options I've encountered so far for getting across the river

Agreed. I think the post-pandemic lockdown transit numbers are down between bike commuters (yay), WFH, and drivers (boo).

@@charlienyc1 Yeah I think a decent chunk of people started biking as a response to poor CTA service these days. I wish we were making progress on biking AND transit

@@LoveToday8 Indeed. At least minor improvements are being made. The new bike lane on Milwaukee between Diversey & Addison is something I'll use daily, for example.

Every councillor who agreed to that deserves jail time.

@@YourCapyBro_effluentcoffeebean Thankfully the contract is set to run out in the next few years. Since it did cause Chicagoans to become accustomed to much more expensive parking fees, that may have helped aspects of developing alternative modes of transportation in Chicago, at least long term. But the deal itself had a lot of problems.

@@unconventionalideas5683 true. Frustration with parking can lead to some seeking alternative modes of travel, and that in of itself isn't bad. The more who choose to utilize mass transit the better. But the method is wrong. All because the scum who always manage to worm their way into public office are so morally bankrupt inside they steadfastly WILL NOT TAX WHERE THE MONEY IS- AT THE TOP!!! BECAUSE THEY'RE ORDERED NOT TO BUY THE FILTH WHO OWN THEM- that being big business and very high-income private households; because if they did why TF would they need to be betraying the public trust by selling off public assets!?! And it is a betrayal, it should be seen as a corrupt and criminal act and not only should it utterly deep-six any future chances of election any of them seek to have, they should be criminally charged with serious fraud and corruption. IF YOU SELL OFF PUBLIC GOODS AND SERVICES YOU SHOULD BE SEEN AS A CRIMINAL, FULL STOP! In essence you are destroying and throwing away what isn't yours to give!! It's not private property are go to me the crime is beyond dispute! Of course they won't be tho. Every big city is a cesspool of scum all greasing each other's palms and protecting each other. We keep electing the same amoral corrupt easily bought political scum and then we wonder why things don't change. I desperately wish there was an alternative. If only there a way to get rid of politicians altogether, because in this country I don't care if they come red or blue, I believe they are all at their core absolute trash. They're all destructive and they're ALL malignant narcissists. The exist to serve themselves at everyone else's expense & they do not care about the harm they cause. They're there to serve the elites and they could give a flying fig if the rest of us drop dead. I know that's a little melodramatic but I believe it's true.

@@unconventionalideas5683 true. Frustration with parking can lead to some seeking alternative modes of travel, and that in of itself isn't bad. The more who choose to utilize mass transit the better. But the method is wrong. All because the scum who always manage to worm their way into public office are so morally bankrupt inside they steadfastly WILL NOT TAX WHERE THE MONEY IS- AT THE FKG TOP!!! BECAUSE THEY'RE ORDERED NOT TO BUY THE FILTH WHO OWN THEM- that being big business and very high-income private households; because if they did (tax) why TF would they need to be betraying the public trust by selling off public assets!?! And it is a betrayal, it should be seen as a corrupt and criminal act and not only should it absolutely deep-six any future chances of election any of them seek to have, they should be criminally charged with serious fraud and corruption. IF YOU SELL OFF PUBLIC GOODS AND SERVICES YOU SHOULD BE SEEN AS A CRIMINAL, FULL STOP! In essence you are destroying and throwing away what isn't yours to give!! It's not private property, it's the public's, which IS *THEIR* JOB TO SAFEGUARD, ergo to me the crime is beyond dispute. Of course they won't tho. Every big city is a cesspool of scum all greasing each other's palms and protecting each other. We keep electing the same amoral corrupt easily bought political scum and then we wonder why things don't change. I desperately wish there was an alternative. If only there a way to get rid of politicians altogether, because in this country I don't care if they come red or blue, I believe they are all at their core absolute trash. They're all destructive and they're ALL malignant narcissists. The exist to serve themselves at everyone else's expense & they do not care about the harm they cause. They're there to serve the elites and they could give a flying fig if the rest of us drop dead. I know that's a little melodramatic but I believe it's true.

@unconventionalideas5683 true. Frustration with parking can lead to some seeking alternative modes of travel, and that in of itself isn't bad. The more who choose to utilize mass transit the better. But the method is wrong. All because the scum who always manage to worm their way into public office are so morally bankrupt inside they steadfastly WILL NOT TAX WHERE THE MONEY IS- AT THE FKG TOP!!! BECAUSE THEY'RE ORDERED NOT TO BUY THE FILTH WHO OWN THEM- that being big business and very high-income private households; because if they did (tax) why TF would they need to be betraying the public trust by selling off public assets!?! And it is a betrayal, it should be seen as a corrupt and criminal act and not only should it absolutely deep-six any future chances of election any of them seek to have, they should be criminally charged with serious fraud and corruption. IF YOU SELL OFF PUBLIC GOODS AND SERVICES YOU SHOULD BE SEEN AS A CRIMINAL, FULL STOP! In essence you are destroying and throwing away what isn't yours to give!! It's not private property, it's the public's, which IS *THEIR* JOB TO SAFEGUARD, ergo to me the crime is beyond dispute. Of course they won't tho. Every big city is a cesspool of scum all greasing each other's palms and protecting each other. We keep electing the same amoral corrupt easily bought political scum and then we wonder why things don't change. I desperately wish there was an alternative. If only there a way to get rid of politicians altogether, because in this country I don't care if they come red or blue, I believe they are all at their core absolute trash. They're all destructive and they're ALL malignant narcissists. The exist to serve themselves at everyone else's expense & they do not care about the harm they cause. They're there to serve the elites and they could give a flying fig if the rest of us drop dead. I know that's a little melodramatic but I believe it's true.

Our idiot premier almost killed it

@@AlexGetsAroundTObe grateful you didn’t have our idiot premier, who would have probably opened up a bunch of coal mines in it or something.

Toronto always had a hard edge between urban and rural even before the greenbelt.

RCMP is investigating our Premier for that.

@@AlexGetsAroundTO I'm not going to defend Doug's actions, but he didn't even come close to "killing it", the greenbelt plan involved removing at most a subdivision worth of greenbelt. It was like, .01% of all designated greenbelt (and even that might be an overestimate).

Is it 26 uninterrupted miles?

​@@ianstuart5660Essentially, Yes. Where the Chicago river crosses, you can take a bridge that has separat pedestrian & bike lanes, both protected from car traffic. The Lakefront path is pretty sweet, actually!

Please tell me that Chicago is not as crappy as Toronto. Toronto is a disaster with nut jobs everywhere in the city. Not to mention the cost of living and passive aggressive culture.

Skipeed right over the traffic in Toronto as well. Oh well

@@SMOOVKILL1in that part Chicago would be worse. 2 hours for 5-7 miles? Let’s go

Oh yes... But, you know, it can get a lot worse than just smoking lol

Hey a lot of folks are doing what they can, they recently blocked the appointment of a completely unqualified director for CTA. Once Dorval is ousted I think things will improve. We had peak ridership since COVID last month. Get involved in local politics and make your voice heard.

@@jesusmahman Don’t worry, I absolutely am. I just don’t live in Chicago anymore, so I can’t really participate in local politics there

@@xilingsinqueso A better question is what is being smoked.

Smoking on the trains wouldn't be so bad if you knew another one was coming in a few minutes. It's not uncommon to see 20-45 minute waits for some train lines on the weekend. I'm livid our current mayor finds this acceptable

I agree. People need to accept Toronto's growing prominence as a global city as well as the people in Vancouver and many othet Canadian cities. This NIMBYism is what stunts growth in our cities. Go Canada! 🇨🇦

Because Toronto’s growth is complete unnatural and unsustainable. 2 million non permanent residents since Covid and the countries systems and economy are collapsing the job market here is completely filled with immigrants and born Canadians are not able to get a job. Toronto was never supposed to be a huge global population centre like it has become. This country was sold out to corporations and politicians and Canadians are tremendously suffering because of it

I think it's attitude is realistic. Chicago is a well established world renowned city while Toronto has not really found itself. It is a work in progress. I don't think despite the beliefs of some in the west, it thinks of itself as a major city. Toronto has many great things going for it such as it is ranked fourth in the world for live theatre but in many ways it has not developed a mature personality. it is an adulescent.

@@jonmce1 which is why we need to accept it as a growing city, finding its identity

I mean you definitely get that sort of sentiment in a lot of cities in North America. San Francisco really gets that feeling. The weirdest phenomenon you see in a lot of cities in the US is a romanticism for like the “bad times.” Like I know a ton of NYers who “miss the 70s.”

There is no comparison with regard to segregation and income inequality as Toronto does not have the unfortunate demographic problem that most cities in the US have, at least not even remotely at the same scale. For this, Canadian cities are very fortunate, despite other issues they may have.

@@jayhpaq I disagree. Toronto DOES have a HUGE problem with the same demographic of people that Chicago does. Luckily that population is much smaller here than it is there otherwise Toronto would be truly doomed and be Chicago 2.0 when it comes to crime and violence. Even now with their relative small numbers we have massive crime problems and its disheartened to hear about a shooting or stabbing going on EVERY SINGLE DAY in the GTA when this wasn't the case even 15-20 years ago. Also I WISH Toronto/GTA population wouldn't be growing so quickly when unless you have an awesome paying job then good luck trying to buy a home in Toronto and even in the greater GTA these days. And to top it off the Canadian government seems hell bent on making these issues 100x worse with allow 1+ MILLION people into the country every year when we don't have the housing, healthcare, infrastructure to support even our existing population let alone hundreds of thousands of new people each year.

Rogers Park always makes me sad when I visit it. Not because it’s bad, actually so far from it. It makes me sad because it’s a stark reminder of what Chicago could be and what it really isn’t. It’s the only diverse neighborhood in the whole that isn’t just a university. It’s not some trendy community of suburbanites to be. It’s a real living place with life and identity that’s all its own. It was one of the only neighborhoods in Chicago that I spent time in that didn’t fill me with revulsion.

​@@UzumakiNaruto_good point - if we had more criminals there would be more crime. Chicago's demographic is largely people born in Chicago or the USA, bringing in 10% of the amount of newcomers than Toronto brings in from overseas and from moving within Canada. Chicago's shewtings per year are also nearly 10x more than in Toronto. Your idea that more foriegners means more criime is entirely false and Chicago was probably the worst example you could've used.

@@jonjonson5730 *Your idea that more foriegners means more criime is entirely false and Chicago was probably the worst example you could've used.* I never said that ALL foreigners cause crime and violence in Canada, but rather that some minorities cause much, MUCH more crime than other groups of minorities. This is an indisputable fact that there are a couple of demographics of people who cause the bulk of violent crimes in Canada and that if you could magically make them disappear Canada's crime and violence rates would drop to historic low levels overnight. That's how many problems these specific groups cause because we allowed them to get out of control and were too afraid to hold them accountable for their actions for fear of being called 'racist'. Whether these few demographics have been here for generations or they have only arrived in Canada for a few years they all mostly have their origins from the same regions of the world. This is fact and all you have to do is look at most wanted lists photos in Canada and see that its no different to many most wanted lists in the US. Also ask yourself why do you think that the Canadian government absolutely refuses to gather and release race based crime data even after all this time? The FBI does it and we've seen the results of the data they've gathered and I'm 100% sure that the Canadian government doesn't want to do it because they're afraid that the data they gather will also return the same results. Namely that not all diversity 'is our strength' or is good for our nation and for a country that has built its reputation as being the most diverse and multicultural in the world that's not a good look.

Toronto still was a created city by 2-amalgamations. The second one forced by your gov when if voted never would have occurred. It was creating a much larger city in a day twice. Chicago did have one massive annexation in like the 1880s of areas around it as early townships and suburbs needing Chicago water, sewer lines installed etc. Chicago had after its Great Fire of 1871 many Architects contributing to a new city not built of as much wood, but brick and steel and massive growth as the fastest growing city in the world for some years. Mies less-is-more gave us glass boxes. Just Chicago had many decades of other eras of architects that left their mark creating a core of a variety of all of them as not to be all blue-glass or boxes. It has its share. Mies liked the black box. Other eras gave Chicago green to blue boxes that also at least break things up over so many that same blue glass. Post-Modernism also was a superior era vs Mies boxes that was 1980s 90s. That also gave more variety to Chicago over continued all boxes. Sadly, it can get boxes today though its superior larger ones do better. Chicago also chose the PODIUM high-rise to skyscraper. That has parking lower levels but newer post mid-90s ones still got retail street-level the city basically required. Toronto chose all parking must be underground in a high-rise to skyscraper. Still street-level can be banal anyway. Good podiums at least hide that parking.... not all. Just so many differences by legacy, history, being in different nations, governments, money's cities get from their federal governments is HUGLY DIFFERENT. Toronto metro gets many multiple Billions $$$ from Canada's vs Chicago lucky to get 1-Billion when Obama left office in matching funds by raising taxes of those living near lines to get upgrades. Chicago could do a lot more with many Billions for new subways Toronto can and does get. JUST SO MANY DIFFERENCES in LEGACY architecture to all the damage the US north saw from de-industrialization, massive interstate/expressways thru its cities destroying neighborhoods. Redlining by the US gov for FHA low interest loans in the 1930s to post WW2 GI loans where minority neighborhoods WOULD NOT see approved loans banks were given redlined maps of areas to loan and those to avoid where 1-2% went to minorities even. SO THE US GOV policies even did so much damage. Add Blockbusting pushing White-flight that lead to areas declining by taking wealth and retail with them. At least Chicago in the 50s early 60s still had areas of the city to grow into besides just suburbs and a very diversified economy vs a Detroit that helped it with a downtown already with key Corporate might.

If you’d like that sort of architecture, you should come over to Detroit to Lafayette Park, which is abundantly full of his architecture actually, it has the only ground level townhouse development that was ever designed along with several high-rise Towers downtown. It’s called Lafayette Park and it’s beautiful.

Hopefully you'll manage to get around Chicago soon!

Living in Chicago for 8 years now, and just recently spent a week in Toronto. Chicago can be cool from the aerial shots but in Toronto, I used public transit without fearing for my life for a week. In Chicago that seems impossible to me

Chicago doesn’t really build new homes though. You occasionally see new five-over-ones in trendy neighborhoods but like what major city in America can’t say that about itself lol. It’s a city that was already built for being 2x the size that it currently is and remains affordable because of that mostly. Chicago YIMBYs like to act like it’s a well run city but it’s affordable precisely because it isn’t lol. Trust me, I worked for a Chicago real estate law firm assisting developers and the city government kept us busy lmao

And there would be some similarities in comparing the two West Coast giants. Vancouver while "technically" smaller, feels bigger given its density. If Canada would do a US CSA style, Vancouver would be more than 3.5 million residents in a much smaller area than Seattle-Tacoma CSAs roughly 4 million. And while Seattle has taller buildings, Vancouver has much more filling a peninsula and more. Transit is the huge edge to Vancouver, with actual proper subways while Seattle has better Commuter Rail. Vancouver is more on the Pacific Ocean than Seattle. Vancovuer is much more ethnically diverse. Vancouver city area is half the area of Seattle yet just as populated. Anyway, would be a great comparison of two cities, largest in the Pac NW and very similar but different at the same time.

@@rchilde1 "Vancouver is much more ethnically diverse" not true at all. Seattle metro area is diverse asf nowadays. also I feel like I actually see more 'diverse' population more than Chinese or Indians in Seattle than lower mainland.

Every other Canadian city? Such as? As a Canadian from Toronto I barely even bother to check out other Canadian cities. Seems boring to me.

@@daniellat5763 You sound stubborn & lacking in intellectual curiosity. Typical of Torontonians. For starters, Montreal is a much more interesting & older city than Toronto with a better & vastly more interesting transit system. You don't find anything "boring" about the sea of grey commie blocks & generic glass condos that make up 2/3's of Toronto?

There is no comparison in what a Chicago gets for transit from the US vs Toronto by Canadian feds. Chicago gets bits and pieces and was lucky to get matching funds for improvements along a line by a exiting Obama Admin. It was 1.1 Billion $$. Toronto already had 4 large transit projects going in 2021 when the Canadian Gov gave another massive 12-Billion $$$ for Toronto/Hamilton Transit for new lines and improvements. HUGE GAP. Chicago has parts of its system back to the 1800s. Many still used from the early 20th century. Its subway portions in the core was early 1940s and that was fed money for WW2 project. All its previous ones were PRIVATE COMPANIES BUILDING MANY LINES OVER DECADES with their own divisions of getting along and ultimately becoming one line as the CTA that even closed some lines in the past. Its last big extension to O'Hare airport using the media of a expressway was in the very early 1980s. The US has only basically LA getting a new or extended suburb currently and not much in federal funds to to so many of our larger cities to utilize vs a Toronto metro from just your Federal Gov. Washington DC got its transit lines as a 1970s Fed project that gave Fed employees free transit vouchers they still get as nearly 20% of its ridership that also surpassed Chicago, yet it is subsidised vs Chicago's and federally build as a new system. Chicago has full alleyways throughout the city lined with garages. That gives less incentive to us transit also to have more than street-parking and of course so many high-rises and skyscrapers are podium ones with parking lower levels that since the late 90s at least gets retail surrounding the base. Toronto requires parking underground if it is built into a building. Still it did not create a better streetscape look IMO. Chicago's mix of older buildings of every era give it just so much more diversity of styles.

I can't wait for the Rail Trail to extend south of Dundas!

Toronto is copying Montreal .

I think a better comparison would be the humber river trail if you wanna beat out chicago for the best multi use path. It runs nearly uninterrupted for 10km from the northwesternmost point of the city ALL the way south to the waterfront trail.

Contact your alder and get them to sign the resolution calling for CTA President Dorval Carter's dismissal!

Need more workers

Divvy was cheaper and faster than the L for literally everything when I was there. In Toronto the TTC beats bikeshare pretty handily past St. Clair

They are similar at the moment but Toronto will have 40%-60% more people in the coming years.

The Toronto waterfront truly leaves a lot to be desired compared to the rest of the city. The majority of it functions purely as road connections, so the few attractions along the water feel isolated. I spoke to a New Yorker who said he visited the city several times for conferences before realizing that downtown is walking distance from the lake. I understand why, most of the interesting stuff in the city is concentrated out of sight of the water.

Agree with you 100%, Chicago has a far superior waterfront. Always thought they should shutdown the Toronto Islands Airport and convert to a park connected by walk/bike bridges to the city. It could be converted to a beautiful parkland with a state of the art open air entertainment center.

Well said, Toronto just not planned to be this populous. Chicago was planned to be a great metropolis but social economic issues are limiting it's growth

*My father, a very blunt man and lifelong Torontonian, has always said just the opposite "Toronto was a dump before 2000." * I think a vast majority of people who lived in Toronto in the 80s and 90s would heartily disagree with your father. Sure it had its dingy parts, but Toronto back then had its own vibe and a soul. So many unique mom and pop stores and small businesses that made downtown Toronto so fun to visit and to spend time at are now mostly wiped out for a neverending line of glass condos and chain stores. Also if 80s/90s Toronto was a 'dump' then what does it say for today's Toronto that averages a shooting/stabbing every single day? All the homeless, mentally ill, drug addicts hanging around in parks and on the streets being a threat to the general public. It wasn't nearly this bad 20-30 years ago that's for sure.

Your dad is spot on. I share his opinion mostly!

its just nostalgia, toronto is a much better city now, lower crimes better economy

@@ninjastar4076 What are you smoking that you believe crime is actually lower now than 20-30 years ago? There's never been more shootings, stabbings, armed car jackings, car thefts, random assaults and other violent crimes as there has been now in Toronto and surrounding areas.

Agreed I think downtown Chicago is way more impressive than downtown Toronto but on the flip side, the non-downtown parts of Toronto are much nicer and safer than the non-downtown parts of Chicago proper

@@Entername-md1ev Agree and disagree. Chicago has some very nice non downtown parts like Logan Square, Wrigleyville and Lincoln Park etc.....but i know what you're getting at.

I'm excited to see Chicago this year. I've lived in most of Canada's big cities: Toronto, Montreal, Ottawa, Calgary, and Edmonton, but now live in Northern BC, in the Rockies. I rarely get to a city much larger than Prince George, BC (80,000 people) so Chicago will be an interesting adventure.

Toronto even has normal beaches on the waterfront too, like Woodbine. It just has fewer things directly on the waterfront than Chicago. As for airports, there's a limit to how many things we want to mention in a video.

now to be fair to metra, they are taking massive strides in improving themselves and have recently begun to improve frequencies on some of their lines, especially on weekends. their goals now are to scrap their identity as a commuter rail system and to become a proper regional rail

Regional transit is definitely something where Toronto has improved in. And they needed to improve it, because the traffic you hit trying to get into downtown can be insane.

1. I used 2021 data from Canada to more closely match the 2020 US census. I didn't want to use more recent US population data because that means relying on the ACS which, from what I understand, can be a little wonky with population estimates. 2. Toronto's older semi-detached neighbourhoods are decently dense but, from my analyses, not as dense as Chicago's neighbourhoods (unless maybe we're counting the areas that have problems with vacant lots). 3. The points about future improvements are all true (although I think GO RER is a lot more exciting than the LRTs) but we intentionally avoided spending too much time talking about future trajectories due to time constraints. This video was already longer than normal for us.

Ken, fancy seeing you here! Well spoken!

The province and the city dropped the ball after they cancelled the Spadina Expressway. We got the promise of "transit, transit, transit" as the consolation prize, but after 1974, that practically ended. New subway stations? Oh, maybe after the next elections. New subway _lines?_ Maybe next century. Literally! The Sheppard Line didn't open until 2002, and it's a stub that does little but get people out of their cars at Fairview Mall before they have to cross the 401 and head downtown. At least there's _that._ It's only been in the last ten years that Toronto's actually started really building new transit that doesn't look and smell like yet another bus route, and even then, it's ridiculous. NASA _literally_ took less time from JFK's promise to actually putting Apollo 11 on the moon than Metrolinx has taken to build and open the Eglinton LRT! 1961-1969 vs. 2010-...whenever!

Chicago is thegreenst and most sustainable with a better architecture . Toronto has no soul, no identity .

​@AChapstickOrange Very true the Eglinton LRT still has no firm opening date after 14 years of construction! What a farce!

On the less expensive side, Pittsburgh offers a lot of bang for the buck when it comes to urbanism.

Calling Eglinton LRT a “subway” is like calling a Chicago hotdog a full meal. The stupid thing has street level crossing with traffic with basically no priority…it’s a glorified street car and a horrendously over budget one at that. Toronto is definitely growing faster but infrastructure is still stuck in the 70s. It’s one thing Chicago does way better.

@@pulkit10 The western 2/3 is entirely subway.

@@pulkit10 Whatever man...your way over thinking this. It's train that runs east and west in the mid part of the city that was badly needed. It will certainly help with congestion.

Great comparison. Some of Toronto's inner suburbs have ridiculously low density being less than 10-15km from downtown. We need higher density in those areas, and not just along the major arterial roads.

Great point. Toronto's streetcars are unique, although I wish they only had dedicated lanes. Having drivers from out of town can be deadly when exiting a streetcar that is sharing the road with cars.

That’s quite interesting, having lived in both, I’ve always thought that downtown Toronto had noticeably less foot traffic than Chicago. Both have huge numbers of office workers, but downtown Chicago seems like of a destination to eat and drink, whereas in Toronto the most popular places from my experience are a bit outside the core, e.g. King West, Queen West, and Ossington. Also, Chicago gets absurd numbers of tourists anywhere near the Mag Mile.

@@Lukasz-nw2pb I lived in Chicago for many years and I’ve never heard anyone describe the Loop as a destination for eating and drinking lmao. Mag Mile and State Street are tourists traps that are almost never visited by locals.

What always surprised me was just how few people took transit in Chicago but tbh it’s not surprising when you actually talk to Chicagoans. Living there for so long I have discovered that it’s not a city. It looks like a city. It has a city layout. But Chicago isn’t a city anymore. It’s an incubator for future suburbanites and the culture and identity of its people reflect that. People on the Northside will openly brag to you about never going south of Roosevelt like it makes them better people. I’ve had a dozen people tell me they do not take the Red Line because “it goes through the Southside and so those people tend to stay on the train.” In the same conversation I’ve dozens of times heard Chicagoans mock outsiders who think the city is dangerous but then say the Southside is a hellhole. They would tell you this even if you’re from the Southside (which i am). Most of the permanent residents who are not black Southsiders or Mexicans in the West side, are just suburban born Illinoisans or Kansas farm girls who come here post grad to post cute brunch photos before shacking up with some other suburban born Greek life graduate. They’ll maybe try to be cool and hip and not move to the suburbs before their first kid is born, but as soon as that baby can read he’s being shipped off to some town ending in Park, Grove, or Heights to be in “a good school district.”

@@Lukasz-nw2pb That’s an interesting point. I think this gets a little bit into the semantics of what “downtown” is. It’s true, while pre pandemic Toronto’s downtown core was a little busier, our downtown core (where the tall office towers are) is relatively small compared to the entirety of downtown (depending on definition). The downtown core tends to be very busy during the day but a little dead after working hours. The areas that flank the Downtown core in Toronto you mentioned are very busy. So are a number of other areas which flank the downtown core that are still technically downtown: the Waterfront, Yonge Street, Yorkville (Bloor-Yonge), the Annex, King Street, Queen Street, College Street. I could be wrong about Chicago, it was my observation when I visited. I was surprised to see so few people throughout many parts of Downtown.

@@patrickboldea599 Maybe I’m wrong but I feel like many US cities seem to follow this trend. Downtown is a place to come into, see a sporting event or a show and then drive back to your large suburban home where it’s “safe.” I guess Chicago used to be different?

Just as I finished my visit to Toronto, as a Chicago resident. Absolutely loved Toronto

EVEN considering all this, Chicago is still more compelling. I live in San Francisco, and as beautiful as it is we still refer to Chicago much much more than Toronto. And yes, we do reference Toronto. Canada has some AMAZING cities. I think everyone knows that already so calm down.

@@yoshirox25 What you wrote probably refers to 4 and 6 in my list. Yes, in that sense I agree. But transit system and overall safety in the city are not comparable. In the future the difference will be even higher.

It will look like New Delhi.

Im excited too! You should check out the downsview airport redevelopment project in Toronto too

@@goldenretriever6261New Delhi isn’t the insult you think it is.

They need to stop building endless condos in downtown, especially along the lakeshore, then letting foreign investors buy up all the units to price out the local Torontonians who end up renting them for much higher prices. The endless land development is also pushing out traditional and cultural pockets of the city like the Kensington Market area.

​@@_Just_Another_GuyThe large Condos being built are a symptom of horrible zoning in Ontario.

See Reece’s article for how it compares to Toronto

I've ridden it. Lol back in the day when they still used tokens. It worked well for me.

ya very surprised there was no mention of streetcars. those are as iconic to Toronto as the L is to Chicago imo

I view Montréal as a mix of Chicago, Boston, & New Orleans

I'm glad there are no streetcars in Chicago... having parking & bike lanes on main streets contributed enough to traffic congestion

@@Heyu7her3 I'm glad too. It's good to have a cool urban feature that you have to go to Toronto to experience.

Toronto does not even remotely follow the "white suburbs and black downtown" layout of Midwest cities like Chicago. If anything it's the opposite with the suburbs having a lower percentage of white people

Can’t compare Canada and the United States in terms of race relations in cities tbh. In the U.S. white flight led to white wealthy suburbs and poor minority cities while Canada’s population and its immigrants have all been moving into cities for the past 50 years (the same timespan that Americans have been leaving cities). Canada’s mix of demographics and urbanity are far more comparable to Australia and New Zealand while I think the U.S. is most similar to Brazil in this aspect

@@Entername-md1ev Toronto is the reverse. White inner city and racial minorities in the suburbs, especially newer suburbs.

ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-G3lRp-67z5U.htmlsi=G8l0SqD2GkpOem3_

ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-bLs4hLIuHVY.htmlsi=hbUCbx5YVpTdlZnV

ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-48sQedAp0ME.htmlsi=Oru2f5J1TWV4pxNk

The channel "Geography by Geoff" has some videos that address the subject of that history. One in particular discusses why eastern Canada is relatively unpopulated compared to the eastern US, and the historical reasons for that.

@@mushroomsteve That sounds like a perfect resource to answer my questions! I appreciate you taking the time to recommend such a relevant channel.

It also just has to do with how Canada has a significantly lower level of inequality than the US

​@@thomasgrabkowski8283Certainly true, but we need to avoid being satisfied with just being better than the US when that's such a low bar. Wealth inequality has been increasing drastically in Canada and we are seeing the consequences in poverty, homelessness, mental health, substance abuse rates.

Vancouver is the nicer city but Seattle is the much wealthier city in my opinion

The inner suburbs vs downtown core mindset is a thing of the past. Did you see who voted for Olivia Chow? A transit-forward, pro-bike, pro-pedestrian mayor? Sure there are still suburban NIMBYs, but Scarborough as a majority voted for her. Alot of the inner suburbs mindsets are moving away from "we only want single family homes" and towards "we need denser, affordable housing and better transit".

The four most densely populated municipalities in Illinois are all western suburbs (Chicago is #5).

Toronto's suburbs have historic core areas to but most are parts of amalgamated cities.

No city is a finished product. While there are a lot of new developments in Toronto, issues like cost of living, homelessness, mental health, and substance abuse are increasing at an alarming rate.

He left out a lot about Chicago as well but, enough information was given about both cities for people to get a good idea what he is talking about. Chicago also has some amazing new building in the works, they are both amazing in their own way.

Not part of the TTC! Those are used for city tours...

@@Richard-nd8km I thought they went out to the outlying areas too, like Guelph and Mississauga.

@@mushroomsteveYou’re correct, we have double decker buses operated by a Toronto commuter transit agency, GO Transit

Chicago has been losing population for several years, which is why prices have more or less plateaued as compared to Toronto. The inflows of population into Toronto is the cause of the stratospheric prices, and housing starts can’t keep up with population growth.

@@oldschoolben438 exactly you can’t compare these two cities without mentioning how their population growth is going in opposite directions. Chicago city proper’s population peaked in the 1950s during a time when Toronto had less than 1 million people yet. Chicago has had a declining population for nearly 7 decades now while Toronto’s population has grown too fast in the past 20-30 years