True story. My uncle who lost his sight to glaucoma when I was about a year old told me to watch Sidney Moncrief when I was about 9 or 10 years old. He broke down every one of Sidney's moves, the dunks, the shot blocks, the ball handling, etc. Now you know a man has game when he makes a blind man see. Real talk.
Most underrated legends ever: Moncrief, Pettit, Baylor, Mike Mitchell, Walton, Maxwell, Dennis Johnson, Barry, Thurmond, Wilkins (most people remember he was a great dunker and forget how good of a player he was), Unseld, Walter Davis, Sam Jones, McGinnis, Moses, Cowens, Reed, Bobby Jones, Coop, Norm Van Lier, Larry Nance, Lever, Toney, Blaylock, English, Sweet Lou, Bellamy, Hawkins, Sabonis
+TheBDHShow ...What a great list you have there !!!!!! I totally agree with every name you have on your list but one. If I made my list I would write down the exact same names though I would not write one of them down. You listed McGinnis. I would not include him. To me, he is overrated. Unlike all the others on your list, McGinnis, declined rapidly after a few years. That was something the other players never did. In fact, the others seemed to get better with age. 27 great players !!! We have got to get them all in the Hall Of Fame. I would also add three more. Paul Silas, Bob Dandridge, and Maurice Cheeks.
I've watched this video more than once, but hadn't thought of leaving you a comment. It's a cool montage. You can't go wrong with Eric B. & Rakim. And, of course, you can't go wrong with Sidney Moncrief. We need more footage of him on RU-vid (I do have something in mind, actually).
Read not too long ago that the Lakers strongly considered taking Sidney Moncrief over Magic Johnson with their No. 1 pick back in 1979. Moncrief was the one Jerry West loved the most and didn't really believe a freakish 6'8" "point guard" like Magic could successfully adjust to the NBA level. Glad the Lakers gambled and won big with Magic, but taking Moncrief instead wouldn't have been all that bad either. He's probably still the greatest Bucks player of the post-Kareem era. Loved the fact that he played both ends of the floor equally well and NEVER took a possession off during a game. Hope he eventually finds his way into the HOF as well because he's one guy who very much deserves it! :-)
+PeekaPeep Marques Johnson 1977-81 takes the cake as best Buck after Kareem. Marques' performances in the 1978 and 1981 playoffs are among the best ever by NBA forwards. He was young Michael Jordan's favorite player and Sports Illustrated in 1980 argued that Marques was better than Dr. J. Sid was great, but I'd have to rank Marques' peak years over Sid's, plus Sid often struggled in the playoffs -- Andrew Toney had his number.
+PeekaPeep I think Moncrief was capable of running point, so Moncrief and Cooper would've formed the most terrifying defensive backcourt in the history of basketball
I seem to remember that the Lakers backed off of Moncrief and chose Magic because Sid had already had at least one knee surgery. Turned out to be the best decision the Lakers ever made. Hard to believe now but there were plenty of people who thought Magics Michigan State teammate Greg Kelsor was going to be the better NBA player. That sounds crazy, but some of those people were coaches and scouts!
+JD Mo I don't know about Marques Johnson DEFINITELY being the best Buck ever after Kareem... Speaking of peaks/primes with Milwaukee, Marques can certainly be argued right after Jabbar but Sidney Moncrief is also up there on that conversation. In 1982-83, for example, Moncrief was 4th in MVP voting (higher than Marques ever was) playing on the same team as Johnson, while winning DPOY, making All-NBA 1st and All-Defensive 1st, putting up 22.5/5.8/3.9/1.5 on .602 TS%, being 9th in the league in PER, 4th in ORtg, 2nd in WS/48... MJ was better than him in the post-season that year though. And while I agree that Toney "had his number" (I believe that Andrew was the only player who Sid wasn't able to contain head-to-head on a regular basis during both prime years), you're being unreasonable by saying that Moncrief OFTEN struggled in the Playoffs... Sid had some great runs, like in 1984 or 1985 (especially 1985, even injured at the end); and while he was never the same after 1986 due to knee problems, he still had a very good run in 1987... Oh, and we can't neglect Oscar Robertson here, he was still very good in 1971. Think I'm not forgetting anyone else that relevant to this discussion...
+TheBDHShow Moncrief was capable of running point, yes, but if you had a backcourt with him a Michael Cooper, Coop would be the one playing PG the most, simply because he was better qualified for it... Sid could pass and handle the ball, could bring it up on the fastbreak, etc... But Cooper was better at those things. Some people forget or just don't know how valuable Cooper was for the Lakers because of that too, and not just because of his terrific defensive play... Coop was pretty important for them, running the offense while Magic was on the bench; they also suffered plenty in that department when Michael was gone. Cooper also has the numbers to back him up, even when he was starting for a DNP Magic Johnson. And I'd rank Moncrief slightly ahead of Cooper as an overall defensive player, but Coop could defend a bigger variety of players than Sid did. Mike also stuffed the defensive stat-sheet (steals+blocks) at a higher rate but of course that there's much more to it than that, and Sidney was a defender who didn't gamble much at all, while he was a better overall basketball than Cooper by a good margin. But yes, Moncrief and Cooper would've most likely been the best defensive backcourt in the history of basketball.
The guy who made this video kinda missed the point about what made Sydney so special by focusing the vid almost entirely on offensive plays. The thing that made Moncrief so special wasn't really his shooting or scoring skills, instead it was how he combined that with incredible DEFENSIVE play. If the guy making the vid really wanted to show what set Moncrief apart, he should've shown far more of the great steals and defensive plays Syd was famous for.
So underrated it's almost a crime. Shameful because this man is one of the greatest SG's ever, and one of the most complete and consistent players ever. Get him in the HoF!
If you look at kawhi's first 6 seasons, vs moncriefs first 6 seasons, their stats are comparable. Of course kawhi shoots the 3 better, but moncrief got to the line more and had better passing ability.
When i was a young Moncrief fan, I tried to teach my little cousin to say his name and she said "Sidney Monstercrief" ... that's how I've thought of him ever since.
Right. Like King and Bird. They didn't give you that Magic and Isiah smile and then tear your guts out. You know where Sid, King and Larry were coming from.
Amen!!! Moncrief is the least known superstar of the NBA's golden era (IMO). Clutch, tough, great defender, could do it all. Damn if the Knicks had him during the Ewing era they might have won something.
Had he played with larger market like LA, NY, Boston, Chicago, Philly or Dallas he would of easily been in the HOF. But because he played in a small market like Milwaukee (which most of the ref's, media and rest of the country could careless about or even know it exists as a place) he doesn't stand a chance in the HOF. Unfortunate because he was one of the Best all around, well balanced players and Very Under Rated!
Sid the squid, he could guard anybody. He had those ridiculously long arms. He was absolutely fearless going to the hoop against any teams' bigs. He was an explosive leaper but of course he had those bad knees which probably cut short his years of greatness. He probably did his best dunking at the Univeristy of Arkansas. And what a class act all the way.
Relax buddy, D Wade is a 3 time champion, a Finals MVP, a scoring champion, 11 all star appearances, only player under 6'4 with over 700 blocks, 2 time nba first team. I could keep going, don't underestimate D Wades greatness hell retire as one of the top 30 players in history.
Your vile,vulgar language demonstrates how unpolished and crude you actually are - devoid of any culture or refinement. You are pitifully pathetic you moronic, imbecilic slob!!
One of the greatest teams to not get a ring. The 80's were good to Laker and Raider and Niner fans. The sixties was good for Raider, Bruin, and Celtic fans Post 9/11 has been piss poor for Pirates, and the Gold Rush while fortune has been abundant for fans in Boston and New York. New Orleans became a power and won the Super Bowl after Katrina. Red Sox, Giants, Patriots, Yankees, etc. How many titles between them before and after the 9 11 psy-op? Peculiar, don't you think? Law of Attraction working through our prayers, empathy, and concern for those communities? Perhaps the NFL, NBA, so forth, are corrupted. It's rigged in ways and for reasons beyond our comprehension.?
I am so shocked that Moncrief is not in the Hall of Fame. It is unbelievable. I'm not going to name everyone he is greater than in the Hall, but having a look at some of the names, he is a league above many. Also, he should have been named one of the 50 greatest players in league history back in 1997. He was greater than Dave Bing, greater than Lenny Wilkins and many many more.
+John Bishop I agree that he should be in the Hall of Fame. In the 80's when you talk about point guards, his name comes after Magic and Isiah and ahead of Stockton.
Sir Sid.I'm atrue Knicks fanand was a 76er fan back in the 80's.But I used to love to see it when they played on the most beautiful basketball court in the NBA: The Mecca !!!!!!!
Most underrated. To bad he didn't get a ring. Championship-type player. Sometime a player is a 'champion' without ever getting a ring, because of circumstances outside their control. Sort of like Kurt Warner and Kenny Easley from the Seahawks. Championsi n their own right,just didn't have enough of a supporting cast. Moncrief needed another HOF-type player to get over the hump. It seems to usually take at least two HOF's to win a championship. There are a few rare occasions, like Ricky Berry and the Warriors, but even the Warriors had Jamall Wilkes and other talented players. Moncrief was really good.
+mikem987 Agreed on the HOF'ers - the Bucks had Marques Johnson, Sidney and Bob Lanier, all HOF worthy players, all better than Wilkes. Lanier is in the Hall, Marques and Sidney should be. They needed a PF, never truly recovered from Dave Meyers' early retirement.   Early 1980s Bucks coached by Don Nelson are probably the best team not to win a title, and easily the best team not to make the Finals.
True! Cummings was very good. Bucks had the Celtics beat in 1987, had Johnny Most shrieking bloody murder on the Boston game telecast (it's somewhere here on youtube). A couple of highly questionable calls in the 4th quarter of game 7 against Paul Pressey did the Bucks in. I don't think the Bucks had enough to beat Showtime in the FInals, but Detroit was a good matchup for the Bucks that year. Were it not for those calls, no Boston-Detroit series, no "DJ LAYS IT IN" highlight, and maybe a Bucks-Lakers 1987 Final.
Sidney Moncrief deserves to be in the Hall of Fame. The only reason he hasn't yet been inducted is because he had a relatively short career (relative to other hall of famers)
WHAT!!!!! Sidney Moncrief isnt in the HOF? I should stop watching f***in basketball! That makes no sense at all he was a hell of a player on both sides of the ball just a class act I cant believe that. Do you remember that Sports Illustrated at 1:04 with him flying in the air for the two handed monster dunk?
i remember him torching the celtics backcourt time and time again... how about that pump fake on Larry. The bucks backcourt owned the celtics but we had the Big 3.
Shameful, but he isn't. Yessir, classic cover. Only SG who've outplayed Jordan, on both sides, in a playoff series, in 85, go look it up if y'all don't know about that. Rookie Jordan got outplayed by Sid, that's why he holds him in so much regard, showed him the ropes right there.
bro honestly moncrief and everyone else are legit bought the same height as other players in nowadays leagues BUT THERE FREAKING SHORT SHORTS MAKE THEM LOOK LIKE GAINTS WITH THEIR HUGE MUSCUALER LONG LEGS GAWWWDDDDDDD D:
Moncrief , Micheal Cooper , Bobby Jones , Dennis Rodman Bill Russell...my All-Time defensive team...they'd rarely score 100 points...but rarely give up 90
That would be a godly defensive team, no doubt! Yeah, you got Moncrief who could average 20+ points per game, Bill Russell could reach that 20 mark, Bobby Jones at his best could give you around 15 PPG, Rodman likely over 10 if needed, while Michael Cooper as a starter and with enough minutes/shots could probably reach 15… so yeah - like you’ve said - they’d rarely score 100 points (but then again you also have to factor in what the bench would do); and definitely.. they’d rarely give up 90!
I would most likely say so, when considering everyone at the best of their abilities... It's very tough to say though, and it all gets extremely subjective.
Also Gary Payton, Michael Cooper, and Alvin Robertson... but Moncrief is still the only guard who’ve won it twice, yes. DPotY was only given out since 1983 though, you had guards like Walt Frazier or even Dennis Johnson, who probably would’ve won it before.
Moncrief definitely had better teammates around, and young MJ was already a beast.. but Sid really showed Jordan the ropes on that one! And MJ said the same, ofc. Probably the ONE AND ONLY time that you can argue Mike being outplayed h2h(by a SG) in a Playoff series. Jordan averaged 29.3/5.8/8.5/2.8/1.0 on .436/.125/.828 shooting splits, with 3.8 TO’s per game. Moncrief put up 26.5/4.5/4.8/0.5/0.5 on .549/.400/.923 (amazing) shooting, with (only) 1.8 TO’s per game. Ofc that Sid had the task of stopping MJ who was ALREADY one of the most dominant forces in basketball! And again, Moncrief had the better team, but you still need to take into account that they beat the Bulls 3-1.
2:40-- the invention of the Eurostep. Moncrief used to give my Sixers hell. A defensive nightmare. And he would throw down these hellacious dunks that would make the Doctor shake his head. Congrats, Sidney. It waa long overdue.
I actually think Marques Johnson played more like Wade. Some may not agree because Marques was forward and Wade a guard. But Marques had great quickness for a 3 could handle the ball like a guard plus run and jump. I compare him more with Wade because he seemed to get by his man easier than Sidney just like Wade . You could put a 2 guard in front of Marques and he could get by him without even using his strength. Alex English also compared D Wade to Marques too. I
the 85 bucks went up 2-0 in round one over the michael jordan led bulls + then only lost by three in game 3 before winning 3-1 in that round one series
You're most likely including years where Moncrief (or even the opposing players) was not at his best... That's futile for the discussion at hand. Plus, you're not listing their shooting percentages or regular PPG averages. And Isiah was a PG, Moncrief guarded John Long and Joe Dumars more often on those Pistons. But here, I've found this: www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=312018 Read everything but focus on that 2nd post ^ Realize how amazing that is, his m2m defense (and more) was just incredible and some of the very best EVER. But I guess that if you say that his defense was nothing special (even because of his steals/blocks numbers), or that the term lockdown gets thrown around too much, that makes the case proven, this meaning nothing then... George Gervin (1981-82 to 1984-85) averaged: 26.5 PPG on .496 FG% vs. Moncrief over the course of 8 games: 22.9 PPG on .452 FG%(-1 one game) Reggie Theus (1981-82 to 1985-86) averaged: 18.1 PPG on .472 FG% vs Moncrief over the course of 16 games: 18.5 PPG on .443 FG%(-3 games) Otis Birdsong (1981-82 to 1985-86) averaged: 17.3 PPG on .506 FG% vs Moncrief over the course of 20 games: 14.4 PPG on .457 FG%(-2 games) vs Moncrief over the course of 6 games in the 1984 PS: 15.8 PPG on .412 FG% Darrell Griffith (1981-82 to 1984-85) averaged: 21.1 PPG on .478 FG% vs Moncrief over the course of 8 games: 20.4 PPG on .448 FG%(-2 games) Clyde Drexler (1984-85 to 1985-86) averaged: 17.8 PPG on .484 FG% vs. Moncrief over the course of 4 games: 18.5 PPG on .477 FG%(-2 games) World B. Free (1981-82 to 1985-86) averaged: 23.0 PPG on .452 FG% vs Moncrief over the course of 21 games: 21.6 PPG on .479 FG%(-2 games) Rolando Blackman (1982-83 to 1985-86) averaged: 20.4 PPG on .516 FG% vs Moncrief over the course of 10 games: 18.3 PPG on .459 FG%(-1 game) Jeff Malone (1984-85 to 1985-86) averaged: 20.7 PPG on 490 FG% vs Moncrief over the course of 9 games: 16.9 PPG on .431 FG% "Fast" Eddie Johnson (1981-82 to 1984-85) averaged: 15.9 PPG on .457 vs Moncrief over the course of 17 games: 14.0 PPG on .436 FG%(-2 games) vs Moncrief over the course of 5 games in the 1984 PS: 10.8 PPG on .352 FG% Jim Paxson (1981-82 to 1984-85) averaged: 20.0 PPG on .518 FG% vs Moncrief over the course of 8 games: 16.5 PPG on .432 FG%(-2 games)
Good job. Theus and Blackman were underrated, too. And they (in my opinion) passed the test of time. Sid? Not so much. And NOT his fault. Just tough breaks.
I can see the similarities in their primes, both great athletes, both can pass and even rebound but Wade's the better scorer and Sidney's the better defensive player and much better on-ball defender Sid was a better shooter and Wade a better shotblocker though
38 regular season games head2head vs dennis johnson.johnson 16ppg.22 playoff games johnson 18ppg..like i said defensive stats nothing special for a 2x defensive player of the year.
Nothing special? Right... George Gervin (1981-82 to 1984-85) averaged: 26.5 PPG on .496 FG% vs. Moncrief over the course of 8 games: 22.9 PPG on .452 FG% Reggie Theus (1981-82 to 1985-86) averaged: 18.1 PPG on .472 FG% vs Moncrief over the course of 16 games: 18.5 PPG on .443 FG% Otis Birdsong (1981-82 to 1985-86) averaged: 17.3 PPG on .506 FG% vs Moncrief over the course of 20 games: 14.4 PPG on .457 FG% vs Moncrief over the course of 6 games in the 1984 PS: 15.8 PPG on .412 FG% Darrell Griffith (1981-82 to 1984-85) averaged: 21.1 PPG on .478 FG% vs Moncrief over the course of 8 games: 20.4 PPG on .448 FG% Clyde Drexler (1984-85 to 1985-86) averaged: 17.8 PPG on .484 FG% vs. Moncrief over the course of 4 games: 18.5 PPG on .477 FG% World B. Free (1981-82 to 1985-86) averaged: 23.0 PPG on .452 FG% vs Moncrief over the course of 21 games: 21.6 PPG on .479 FG% Rolando Blackman (1982-83 to 1985-86) averaged: 20.4 PPG on .516 FG% vs Moncrief over the course of 10 games: 18.3 PPG on .459 FG% Jeff Malone (1984-85 to 1985-86) averaged: 20.7 PPG on 490 FG% vs Moncrief over the course of 9 games: 16.9 PPG on .431 FG% "Fast" Eddie Johnson (1981-82 to 1984-85) averaged: 15.9 PPG on .457 vs Moncrief over the course of 17 games: 14.0 PPG on .436 FG% vs Moncrief over the course of 5 games in the 1984 PS: 10.8 PPG on .352 FG% Jim Paxson (1981-82 to 1984-85) averaged: 20.0 PPG on .518 FG% vs Moncrief over the course of 8 games: 16.5 PPG on .432 FG% 1985 Eastern Conference 1st round... Jordan: 29.3 ppg, 5.8 rpg, 8.5 apg, 2.8 spg, 1.0 bpg, 3.8 TO, 43.6% FG, 12.5% 3P, 82.8% FT, 42.8 mpg (compare to Jordan's regular-season numbers and take the minutes into account) Moncrief: 26.5 ppg, 4.5 rpg, 4.8 apg, 0.5 spg, 0.5 bpg, 1.8 TO, 54.9% FG, 40.0% 3P, 92.3% FT, 42.0 mpg Bucks won the series 3 to 1! Find me another SG who was able to do that ^ I know that it was rookie Michael but still, he was already just a great player. Michael Jordan: "When you play against Moncrief, you're in for a night of all-around basketball. He'll hound you everywhere you go, both ends of the court. You just expect it." And you can check basketball-reference to confirm some of those h2h stats...
I don't think so... George Gervin (1981-82 to 1984-85) averaged: 26.5 PPG on .496 FG% vs. Moncrief over the course of 8 games: 22.9 PPG on .452 FG%(-1 one game) Reggie Theus (1981-82 to 1985-86) averaged: 18.1 PPG on .472 FG% vs Moncrief over the course of 16 games: 18.5 PPG on .443 FG%(-3 games) Otis Birdsong (1981-82 to 1985-86) averaged: 17.3 PPG on .506 FG% vs Moncrief over the course of 20 games: 14.4 PPG on .457 FG%(-2 games) vs Moncrief over the course of 6 games in the 1984 PS: 15.8 PPG on .412 FG% Darrell Griffith (1981-82 to 1984-85) averaged: 21.1 PPG on .478 FG% vs Moncrief over the course of 8 games: 20.4 PPG on .448 FG%(-2 games) Clyde Drexler (1984-85 to 1985-86) averaged: 17.8 PPG on .484 FG% vs. Moncrief over the course of 4 games: 18.5 PPG on .477 FG%(-2 games) World B. Free (1981-82 to 1985-86) averaged: 23.0 PPG on .452 FG% vs Moncrief over the course of 21 games: 21.6 PPG on .479 FG%(-2 games) Rolando Blackman (1982-83 to 1985-86) averaged: 20.4 PPG on .516 FG% vs Moncrief over the course of 10 games: 18.3 PPG on .459 FG%(-1 game) Jeff Malone (1984-85 to 1985-86) averaged: 20.7 PPG on 490 FG% vs Moncrief over the course of 9 games: 16.9 PPG on .431 FG% "Fast" Eddie Johnson (1981-82 to 1984-85) averaged: 15.9 PPG on .457 vs Moncrief over the course of 17 games: 14.0 PPG on .436 FG%(-2 games) vs Moncrief over the course of 5 games in the 1984 PS: 10.8 PPG on .352 FG% Jim Paxson (1981-82 to 1984-85) averaged: 20.0 PPG on .518 FG% vs Moncrief over the course of 8 games: 16.5 PPG on .432 FG%(-2 games) 1985 Eastern Conference 1st round... Jordan: 29.3 ppg, 5.8 rpg, 8.5 apg, 2.8 spg, 1.0 bpg, 3.8 TO, 43.6% FG, 12.5% 3P, 82.8% FT, 42.8 mpg (compare to Jordan's regular-season numbers and take the minutes into account) Moncrief: 26.5 ppg, 4.5 rpg, 4.8 apg, 0.5 spg, 0.5 bpg, 1.8 TO, 54.9% FG, 40.0% 3P, 92.3% FT, 42.0 mpg Bucks won the series 3 to 1! Find me another SG who was able to do that ^ I know that it was rookie Michael but still, already a great player. Michael Jordan: "When you play against Moncrief, you're in for a night of all-around basketball. He'll hound you everywhere you go, both ends of the court. You just expect it."
+BasketballJones48021 based on stats you gave he didn't lock these guys down..wilt probably games greatest defender is never known to be a lock down defender.it is a overrated term bc basketballs a team game.people viewing moncrief like he was david thompson.thompson short career body of work college,pro much more impressive in 200 less games...moncrief total body of work 15ppg 4rpg 3apg 50%fg is not hof..he had moments like all have moments in a career..shouldn't use one series with jordan to prove his defense then say he got hurt so other years don't count.
Didn't lock those guys down!? Can you even comprehend what I've posted? We're talking about CONSIDERABLE drop-offs in PPG and FG% from some of the best offensive SG's in the league at that time, when they went up against a PRIME Sidney Moncrief. Enlighten me on what's your definition of lockdown defense, please, because to me - and pretty much to anyone - that's it right there. Oh, and we're also talking about the ONLY shooting-guard who you can make an argument for having outplayed Michael Jordan (the GOAT SG, most likely the GOAT period) in a Playoff series... That's nothing to dismiss AT ALL. Please... Wilt was a center, a bigman, standing at 7'1'', weighing 270+ lbs... You're expecting a guard to have the same type of impact that a bigman has or can have? It just doesn't work that way. In terms of all-time defensive impact, I'd probably only put bigmen in my top10, or at least only frontcourt players (centers and forwards)... But Moncrief is DEFINITELY one of the guards you got closest to the top, with just one of the best arguments for greatest defensive guard of all-time. A bigman can't step on the perimeter to lockdown guards constantly but on the other hand a bigman also has the CHANCE to be more impactful on the defensive end than ANY guard could, it just is what it is... Still, Moncrief did what he had to do to say the VERY LEAST; for the vast majority of time he was making his defensive assignment play considerably worse than usual, while providing some very good offense, some great rebounding for his position, and also while playing some great team defense, don't think otherwise. Sidney had some pretty good teammates, yes, but - during his prime - he was most of the time the best defensive player (or just the best player period) on those Bucks, the same Bucks that were ALWAYS one of the best defensive teams in the league during that time-span, being #1 in Def Rtg once and #2 three times. That's why Sid got to win 2 DPOY's AS A GUARD. But Chamberlain, as most of the great defensive bigmen in history, was a major defensive anchor and a bigtime paint-protector/shot-blocker, while "things" like that impact the game on the defensive end in ways that no guard has the possibility to quite equal... Even so, I think most will say that Wilt was also a lockdown defender at his position, for example look at his man-to-man (mostly in the post ofc) defense against guys like Kareem, Willis Reed or Walt Bellamy. I'd probably say that the greatest defensive player of all-time (meaning most impact on that end) is Bill Russell... With Nate Thurmond being the best m2m center/post-defender though. And, one more time, look at what players such as Mitch Richmond, Bill Bradley, Ralph Sampson, Richie Guerin or Calvin Murphy did in their careers/primes and realize that it don't really match up with Sid's career/prime, also taking into account their best level and impact as overall players... Well, those guys are all in the HoF (to name some), Moncrief is not... Which is shameful, in my opinion.
+BasketballJones48021 you are getting caught up in this mythical lock down defender term.i looked at your wonderful research stats and don't see where moncrief stopped anybody.some players shot better fg% against him..15ppg 4rpg 3apg 1spg is not hof stats..you can't use excuse what if he didn't get hurt.injuries part of sports.it is what it is..you dismiss 22 regular season games against jordan 31ppg 6rpg 5apg 2spg 1bpg 52%fg 15-7 advantage jordan and say moncrief stopped him..thats not reality.being best player on team that never made it to the finals doesn't qualify you for hof..
I believe that Toney is definitely the player that gave Sidney the most problems, probably the only one during Moncrief's prime years that didn't get straight locked down by Sid on the regular. But, again... George Gervin (1981-82 to 1984-85) averaged: 26.5 PPG on .496 FG% vs. Moncrief over the course of 8 games: 22.9 PPG on .452 FG%(-1 one game) Reggie Theus (1981-82 to 1985-86) averaged: 18.1 PPG on .472 FG% vs Moncrief over the course of 16 games: 18.5 PPG on .443 FG%(-3 games) Otis Birdsong (1981-82 to 1985-86) averaged: 17.3 PPG on .506 FG% vs Moncrief over the course of 20 games: 14.4 PPG on .457 FG%(-2 games) vs Moncrief over the course of 6 games in the 1984 PS: 15.8 PPG on .412 FG% Darrell Griffith (1981-82 to 1984-85) averaged: 21.1 PPG on .478 FG% vs Moncrief over the course of 8 games: 20.4 PPG on .448 FG%(-2 games) Clyde Drexler (1984-85 to 1985-86) averaged: 17.8 PPG on .484 FG% vs. Moncrief over the course of 4 games: 18.5 PPG on .477 FG%(-2 games) World B. Free (1981-82 to 1985-86) averaged: 23.0 PPG on .452 FG% vs Moncrief over the course of 21 games: 21.6 PPG on .479 FG%(-2 games) Rolando Blackman (1982-83 to 1985-86) averaged: 20.4 PPG on .516 FG% vs Moncrief over the course of 10 games: 18.3 PPG on .459 FG%(-1 game) Jeff Malone (1984-85 to 1985-86) averaged: 20.7 PPG on 490 FG% vs Moncrief over the course of 9 games: 16.9 PPG on .431 FG% "Fast" Eddie Johnson (1981-82 to 1984-85) averaged: 15.9 PPG on .457 vs Moncrief over the course of 17 games: 14.0 PPG on .436 FG%(-2 games) vs Moncrief over the course of 5 games in the 1984 PS: 10.8 PPG on .352 FG% Jim Paxson (1981-82 to 1984-85) averaged: 20.0 PPG on .518 FG% vs Moncrief over the course of 8 games: 16.5 PPG on .432 FG%(-2 games)
moncrief didn't enough to make hof..mark aquirre should be in hof.only argument you can make for moncrief is that if drazen petrovic is in sidney should be.
Not enough? 2x DPOY (most for a guard); 5x All-NBA (once on the first team); 5x All-Star; 5x top10 in MVP voting (as high as 4th once); was - for the most part - the best player on one of the best teams in the 80's Eastern Conference (probably the most competitive decade/Conference); made the Playoffs every single year of his prime; reached the Conference Finals twice; was at one point the best SG in the NBA; during 5 prime years, in the regular-season, he averaged 21.0/5.8/4.7/1.5 on .592 TS% with only 2.6 TO's, while playing all-time great lockdown defense; has plenty of nice Playoff runs, just great in 1984 and even more in 1985 even when injured; I believe there are not more than 5 guards in NBA history who've led their team in points, rebounds and assists during a complete regular-season, Sid's one of them; he's the only SG who you could make a case for having outplayed Michael Jordan (even if a rookie) h2h in a Playoff series; he had a very good College career... Mark Aguirre - for example because you brought him up - as great as he was, can't hang with all of that, Moncrief was just a more impactful player... Yes, I know that Mark has two rings to his name but you're gonna tell me that Sidney wouldn't have won a title with those Pistons squads? Let's just say you had Sid at the 2 instead of Dumars, and at SF a player of the same caliber as Joe... Think they wouldn't be able to win it all in 1989 and 1990, at least? Give me a break... Eve without Sid at his absolute best. Only knock on Sid is his longevity, really, not great by any means. His career/prime was cut short due to degenerative knee problems. He still did his thing before it though, to say the least. Not trying to dimish anyone's career but, with all due respect, if players like Mitch Richmond, Richie Guerin, Ralph Sampson, Adrian Dantley, Bill Bradley, Calvin Murphy, etc... are in the HoF, then Sidney Moncrief should definitely be selected too.
Great comment..like i said sid can get bc there are others in who weren't great.hof should be for great players.its been cheapen to include good players..dantley 76 olympian 24ppg 54%fg def hof..aguirre should be in not for rings but for college player of the year,20ppg 5rpg 48%fg..sid less than 800 gms.i never thought of moncrief as a great player.15ppg 4rpg 3apg 1spg 50%fg(impressive)is fine but not enough.the yrs he won defensive player of the year blocks,rebounds,steals defensive stats were nothing special.Dantley one of games great scorers.
You know that there's much more to it than just stats, right? And even so, you're posting Sidney's career stats which includes 4 years where he was just a shell of his former self due to career ending injuries... That leaves you with his rookie and sophomore year where he was only coming into his self, and 5 - mostly injury free - prime years. Moncrief was never the same since 1986 or so. First of all, you can talk about teammates and whatnot, but Moncrief was playing in the 80's Eastern Conference, which was easily more competitive than the Western Conference, and probably the most competitive Conference ever. Players like Aguirre or Dantley were out West. And the Bucks with Sid as their best player for the most part, were definitely more successful than Dantley's Jazz or Aguirre's Mavericks. During Moncrief's 5 prime years, Milwaukee were always over 50 wins, once reaching 59, and they reached the Conference Finals twice, again in the more competitive Conference. Moncrief more than proved himself in the Playoffs too. Guys like Mark or Adrian - for example, because I could list more - never came close to receiving the same number of votes for MVP that Moncrief was getting, they can't hang with Sid's numbers of All-NBA selections, so on... I wonder why. Yes, that's right, Moncrief was just more impactful and the people/experts from back then - who definitely watched more than you or me - knew and expressed that. Not to mention that Moncrief has two DPOY's to his name. Sidney was a pretty good, extremely efficient scorer, great rebounder for his position, good passer who didn't commit many mistakes, he was a DPOY-level defensive player, hustled a lot, was pretty clutch, unselfish, etc... Definitely more impactful towards his team winning than players like Dantley or Aguirre. Blocks and steals determine great defense (even more, from a guard) for you? Don't make me laugh... Let's just crown James Harden for great defense then. Moncrief didn't gamble much at all (and he still has good steals/blocks/rebounds numbers), he played that lockdown type of defense, just tremendous on that end, proven by his two DPOY's and whatnot, even from praising from players like Jordan and such.
