I used to work for Sig EO. The 4T & even more so the 8T have an absurd battery life. I don't know what I can and can't say, but 100k hrs is an understatement. Big understatement. They're both essentially unkillable, too. Good review.
So can you tell me by chance if the 4T is currently a Holosun parts kit assembled here or is it like the 8T with the housing made in the US, Japanese glass and S Korean emitter? Don’t want a rebranded Chinese optic. The whole assembled in USA can be confusing wether it’s US and some foreign parts or just a full blown Chinese kit Assembled here.
@@Berserkable The 4T actually fits your criterion better than the 8T does, as it had to be Berry compliant otherwise it'd be a no-go for any .GOV customer. And the Bureau(s) have been (or at least were) quite happy with their "4M", which, to oversimplify, is a 4T minus solar panel. In general, the reason why the ****expensive**** SIG dots cost more than their comparable competitors is the high standards the Electro-Optics division holds its' suppliers to, for *those* products, and the rigorous inspection criteria they undergo by hands-on SIG employees during final assembly and inspection. The whole design culture around the more expensive products was to make things that were unkillable, and that you, the employee, would feel comfortable using in a life or death situation. In this age, I see very little reason to purchase an Aimpoint. The ONE thing they do better than everyone else is extreme submersion ratings. And I doubt you'll see many civvies exiting submarines anytime soon.
@@Nuke-China as with any procurement, exemptions for certain countries, or if you pay the right people enough, or if you were first to the market. Aimpoint has a unique combination of at least two of those things...
They look like a spider web to me, I didn't even know I had an astigmatism until I looked at a red dot because otherwise I have above average vision and just thought that's how lights looked to everyone.
I been telling people that ROMEO 8T is the EOTech killer! The nightvision points are valid but that notwithstanding, the 8T reticle is super crispy and the battery is amazing. I'm not too big on fuzziness of EOTech. I put an 8T on my Virtus 300 BLK and it has lots and lots of premarital sex. Highly recommend!
Plus the durability is a cut above the EOTech, see FocusTripp's review where he dropped it so many times on rocks from 20 or so feet and less, did have any issues with it, nothing broke. EOTech he had broke on second drop, albeit still useable but glass broke.
Yeah the fuzziness is a general issue with all holographic sights, so the point doesnt apply to just eotech. The 8t wont kill eotech, it will hurt aimpoint another reddot company though.
Nope. Looks amazing but not something to replace EOTECH. I love my EOtech so much but if I had a different setup I’d go with something like an AimPoint or other. I love the ability of using AA batteries,the huge window, and the reticle make EOTECH king of CQB. Holographic sights also make them king when it comes to durability. You can have the glass shot out and it will still work and they are truly parallax free or very close to it. It’s on an 11.5 home defense pistol so I just want something I can put on a bad guy fast and pull the trigger. Probably why all the actually cool dudes who do actually cool things seem to commonly run eotech on their Mark 18’s.
@@T20-c8f This has the exact same reticle and window size w/o holographic fuzziness and way better battery life. I don’t see EOTech having any significant advantage other than name recognition and heritage. That’s just me tho.
@@johnhagy4601 Fair enough. It’s just hard for me to see the advantage of EOTech. I’m a regular guy so maybe pro end users have a different perspective but the objective stuff still stands.
I actually did quite a bit of digging to find out how "made in america" these dots are. the text below was originally posted to reddit and I'm not reformatting so sorry about that Some of you may remember a post a few weeks ago where the question was asked sig romeo 4s good enough for FBI? and much screeching followed about whether or not the 4Ts are good optics and where they are actually made. I was curious and wanted to know the actual answer but despite how absolutely certain everybody in the comments was that they knew for a fact where the optic was made, nobody could show me anything to prove what they were saying. I can't let a question go unanswered so I spent way too much time in the last few weeks looking into it. I figure I may as well share what I learned. Sig has done a really bad job getting good info about their optics out into the world and that isn't helped by the fact that they bring out new lines and slash old ones every 15 minutes. Lets get some facts out to start with and I'll explain further The 4T is not Japanese components assembled in the US The 4T is not holosun components assembled in the US The Barry amendment doesn't have anything to do with optics, guns, vehicles or anything except prison slave labor textiles (and crye or whatever I guess) I scoured 1933 Buy American Act rules, their federal contract with the Navy and FBI, import logs, every RU-vid video and every forum post I could find on here, arfcom and everywhere else. I found this this .mil webpage that appears to be a military specific guide to navigating the current Buy American Act requirements as they relate to Military spending and I found this useful. I think the biggest source of confusion here is that the 4T used to be made 100% in China and shares quite a bit in terms of features/aesthetics with the Holosun 515 series. What I found in my research is that there is no legal way for sig to use mostly imported components in anything that they sell to the feds. Even from friendly countries. If an imported component is used they have to show that it is unfeasible to get that component from the USA. China and especially Chinese state owned entities (like Huanic that makes Holosun and a handful of Sig optics) are explicitly disallowed. At the end, I just reached out to Sig and asked because I wanted confirmation of my findings and got the answer Everything besides a single circuit board are made in America. And based on the DFARS rules, that single circuit board would have to be made in Japan. They're the only SE Asian country on the "qualifying countries" list. This means Sig is doing better even better than the most fervent defenders of the optic on that post were saying. Even making their emitters etc. in the US.
Recently OpticsPlanet had the 8T for sale, 560$. Too good to pass up...I was very impressed with the durability of the Romeo 8T when I saw FocusTripp dropping it from 20 feet in the air onto rocks below and from less height with minimal damage and it still worked perfectly.
The Romeo 4T was my first real rifle red dot and it's been flawless. I really like it. That being said, I have T2s on all my training rifles now and the 4T is sitting on my MPX for now.
@@romang6437 Yes, just because it's an Aimpoint (lol) and it's on a Scalarworx mount. I think the T2s are a little more proven and the standard. But if you can find a good deal on a 4T it's certainly a great optic.
Same. It’s a solid combo. Only complaint is the blue tint affects clarity with magnifier. Interesting that sig advertises the blue tint as a military grade notch filter. I can’t tell if blue tint is supposed to be a premium feature or clearer glass lol. The T2 and Romeo 5 are both very clear and on opposite ends of the spectrum.
@@zachbartlett2829 I didn’t buy it as a combo in the same box. I bought them separately - 2 different boxes, but it was on the same day at a Sig store in Florida. Still shoots the same, I just picked the RDS and magnifier I wanted.
@@zachbartlett2829 They might not, my bad if there was any confusion. I don’t know if there’s much difference between a 4h and 4t besides the mounting hardware, I don’t ever plan on taking it off my AR.
I’ve been running a 8t basically since it came out (got it at the sig pro shop after a attending a sig academy class). Other than it’s obvious weight and size issues, it outclasses all other red dots I have, including the higher end holosuns and aimpoints. I really do think that it is the best red dot on the market right now if you can deal with the size, weight, and cost of the thing.
I was a 240 gunner. 77 lb of 7.62 rounds combat load (1100 rounds). A clunky helmet, sometimes (most missions were done at night since hajjis cant afford nods) with a pvs 14 (a pound or two?). Web gear (~5 lbs). Ranger body armor with two ballistic plates (~25 lb). Two canteens, camelback, and a spare bladder full of water (~10 lb). An M9 pistol loaded and a spare mag (~2 lb). A couple of grenades (~2 lbs). 3 30 rounds of 5.56 (some firefights we all run out of ammo). A SAW nutsack. And of course the 27 lb M240B medium machine gun with an optic. I dont recall ever complaining about how heavy the optic was. I dont think complaining about anything was allowed in the old US Army.
I have the Circle Plex version shown on the right at 1:06. It looks crystal clear through a magnifier and costs $50-100 less than the standard dot on every variant of the Romeo4. I wish more reviewers would cover it as it's a unique option that sets to Romeo4 series apart from other red dots.
@@jayfoster850 bit of an odd spot in the market as Hop said. If you have to have an American optic that's rugged (20m submersion rating/7075 housing) and don't care about Night vision at all it's fine. Some owners are reporting that the blue tint is gone on new models but mine still has it. If you don't need the ruggedness you could get the Romeo4h (Sor43012) for ~260 if you look. The glass is less tinted but the reticle gets noticeably brighter as you move your head rightwards. The cross shaped reticle is the big selling point to me, otherwise I would have bought an AEMS
I really wish Eotech would put the motac features on their holographic sights if anything just to fight the battery life inadequacy. Sig really has some good features with the 8T.
@@TheHouseAlwaysWins-xs8zd patent law is another issue I believe. I think some company has some piece of paper that means other people can’t copy them. Also, Trijicon gets around this by just always having the dot on and never having to change the battery (hyperbole, but you get the point).
It sounds like a good idea but is only useful for home defense because in a vehicle it would drain your eotech instead of save it. It also adds just one more failure point. Especially in a lazer emitter that draws far more power than an led. As a result it puts more strain on the internet circuitry. I would rather it remember the last brightness setting you used so you can just hit one button and bam it's up and running. Because honestly the two medium settings it can turn on with are never bright enough for me. However that feature would have a similar issue in terms of long term reliability to that of shake awake.
Just to belabor Hop's point on assembled, I can get a fully coated, ground, and polished lens from China for less than the Chinese equivalent material at volumes over 20 units most of the time. Sometimes that's for a 10th the cost of the glass for Parts or Schott equivalent unfinished blanks, all for a very minimal transmission hit way down in the blue/people party of the spectrum and no noticable quality difference in polishing. Under the right circumstances out might make sense to coat a commercial grade optic here too. The price break on mechanics isn't that much but the quality state side is usually much higher. Machined and assembled here gets you solid bang for your buck, if you want to buy American.
Regardless of performance, I just can't see putting a 1lb brick on my rifle. Holosun has the right idea with the AEMS. That sight seems to be in the Goldilocks zone with size & weight.
I got a Romeo 5X (the R-5 that uses a AAA battery) for my AR I just built, per Hop's recommendation, and I am extremely happy with it (for the use-case of being budget-conscious and not using NVGs or magnifiers). Especially after buying a TRS-25 for my brother's hunting rifle and comparing. No tinted color, no noticeable distortion, it's just nice and transparent. It's hard to even keep both eyes open with the TRS, though it's fine for the money, especially for hunting or for non-combat-oriented guns like a .22lr or slug gun.
You must have been reading my mind as I was just starting to look into the 8T seriously. You answered all of my questions on the optic and how it compares.
7:57... "my chosen load" 😆🤣 ..hop is awesome ,and seriously great video. sig is becoming 1 of the best all around pro 2a companies in history.. I always try to support them and buy their stuff when I can. America is super exceptional
The only thing that holds the EXPS back is battery life, but I don’t use that optic as my go to night gun. That privilege goes to the T2. I still think that EXPS is king for combat optics. 1000 hours battery life is 41 days of it staying on straight. Doubt it takes anybody that long to run an operation to get chocolate milk from their mother’s fridge.
For reasonable passive NV aiming, I like my Trijicon SRS. Yeah, it's big, bulky, and heavy, but the FOV is excellent and I got it under for under $300. Wish they still made them, they aren't all that bad.
Decided to build a fat AK - GF5 PSA stripped AK47 (barreled receiver basically), Sureshot Mk3 chassis, Zenitco RK-1 foregrip, KPYK folding stock, US Palm pistol grip, ALG trigger, Romeo 8T, Lantac Dragon ASR muzzle brake (modified with a dremel to cut out a slot for the detent pin, not sure why they didn't do it themselves). Shoots like a dream but a lil chonky.
Hop I'll be honest with you. I can't understand your thought process half the time but I'm barely a gun guy so keep doing what you're doing man. The videos you create are interesting at the very least, even if I don't understand the full utility of them. Godspeed & Carry on.
Thanks for the review! Been a huge fan of Sig's optics. Their Romeo 5 has been my go to optic for most builds without having to double the cost of the build, ha! Love seeing the EOTech style donut of death making an appearance.
Hop, what are your thoughts on mounting an 8T on a Kriss Vector CRB 10mm? I am running prism scopes on my SR-556's (PA 5× on my 6.8 and Vortex 3× on the 5.56), and they work great with my level of astigmatism. I appreciate your input, as well as your no-bs info and reviews.
I just sent my magnifier back to vortex because behind my romeo 5 it turns my dot into a diagonal slash. I literally sent it off 10 minutes ago and then I watch this video because I was thinking of a romeo 8H with a romeo 5 magnifier and you're the first person in all my research about the issue that I've heard mention the slash instead of dot. Dammit.
I'm still leaning on the primary arms little prism.. Has that etched reticle that still works without the batteries, and it's so much smaller/ lighter/ and cheaper..... Not sure how it would work with a magnifier though.
If you can get them to match up to anything, yeah that would help. If you want to get subsonic 300blk out past 75 or so yards you're really gonna want something.
Also interested to know: Romeo 4T/8T vs Primary Arms 503G or MD-25 both with and without magnification. I have a 503G and the glass is amazingly clear and the chevron, circle, and dots are super crisp, almost as if they are etched into the glass.
Considering you can get a Romeo 4t well under $500 it's definitely worth it for a duty grade optic. Duty grade definition being an optic actually currently in duty from a government agency
I noticed the Juliet4 magnifier does not have a centering feature between the optic and the mount. The fit (prior to tightening the screws) between optic and mount is loose ... So there is a high chance that that the magnifier will not be parallel to the rail when you tighten down the screws. The problem magnifies when you swap out or add the included spacers.
Have the same problem but with the juliet 6. Had to retighten the screws over and over very carefully. In the end I could not get it to match up with my Eotech Exps2. Either the spacers were not tall enough or too tall. Hop is right now I run the same brand magnifier and have no problems.
ive owned this optic for 2 years now, pretty solid, Fast reticle and i like its clarity with magnifyers 😁 Main complaints is the the barely noticeable clicks on the adjustment dials making zero a pain and the mount does not always return to zero 🤕 Im kinda spoiled with nice LPVOs and Scopes i guess but i think a dot at this price range should have better adjustments.... even my Aimpoint Pro has better adjustment dials 🤕
As an LPVO user I don't really have a say in the matter, but I always thought magnifying a red dot was a bad idea because, unlike a holographic, your zero changes drastically if you mag it. I chose a first focal plane LPVO specifically to combat this. Is that just fake news or are we assuming you zero at full magnification and just kinda wing it with close enough at short range?
You could mount James' c9 as a foregrip for 3 more ounces. Way more style. Tracers in the c9 can be your tertiary sight. The Hi Point c9 and tracer rounds are 'Murica sourceable.
@@Hoplopfheil The “quad plex” reticles models usually sell for cheaper. For what it’s worth the center dot and hold dots are allegedly 1 MOA and 0.5 MOA respectively compared to 2 and 1 MOA of the circle dot.
@@Hoplopfheil MSPR is high but there are, or at least were, several vendors that sold it for around 400. I think Proven Arms & Outfitters still have it for around that. Though it might've been with mil discount.
@@xlightning79 I’ve tried both and actually prefer the quad plex. Win for me since it’s usually around $350. I also enjoy having a slightly smaller dot under magnification.
The 8t plus magnifier is roughly as heavy as a vortex razor Gen 2 plus Badger ordnance mount, which is definitely noticeable and really heavy compared to a t2 plus magnifier
@@AnAxetoGrind except these aren’t Chinese products. There was an article that claimed the Romeo 2, 4T and 8T source zero parts from China. I believe it does use Japanese and S Korean parts along with US parts.
These are all good options and I've used most of them accept the 8T...I might have to change that. BTW, the Juliet 6 mag is a nice option in my book. I really like the ability to flip out for 1X over spinning a bezel ring as I find acquiring a target with a 1X red dot much quicker and intuitive, and clearer.
So, I love my 4T, holds up great, BDC matches my gun and load pretty well, but the NV criticism is on point. Yeah, passive aiming is possible, but only just and because my tubes have high enough performance to pick up the dulled image. If I had worse tubes, it’d be a struggle. With L3s new supergain tubes, maybe we will change how we use passive aiming devices though.
From what I've gathered, Sig's microprocessors are likely sourced from Taiwan and the glass is similarly outsourced. The fact that Taiwan's sovereignty is challenged right now is likely part of the reason why the DOD hasn't adopted the 8T as an optic despite its inclusion on Sig's offerings (XM5 and XM250) for the NGSW program; its not as dependable as EOTECH in terms of future availability. For non-DOD personnel, I think the 8T is a fantastic choice for a SHTF scenario. The weight of an EXP3,1-2 back-up CR123 batteries, plus furniture that will let you keep them handy on your rifle will add more weight than the 8T will. I'd imagine that the EOTech would be the go to if you're using a Suppressed/NV/Vehicle focused build, whereas an 8T might be better choice if youre just opting for a GPR.
In my opinion, it's probably not worth the effort to fret overmuch about a red dot's NV capabilities. A red dot is an optic that you can keep in your safe for ages and pick it up and it's still on. It's for the "always ready" situation for defensive purposes, like home or base defense (in the case of military and law enforcement). Red dots are also good for truck guns and patrol cars where you're not likely to have your NODs handy. However, if you're using night vision, this is for a specific mission or (most likely) for the occasional LARP from time to time. In that case, just get an EO Tech that is shit for battery life and put it on a rifle whose sole purpose is for LARPing (or, I guess, missions if you're actually an operator). In that case, you don't need to worry about battery life. It only needs to keep running for the duration of your mission, training, or LARP session. But for your home defense or base defense weapon, put a red dot on it cause the use case for that is you'll need to use it in a scenario where you don't have time do don you NODs, BUT if you for some reason CAN don you NODs in response to an active attack, then it COULD perform, in a pinch, if needed.
Awesome breakdown. I was curious if it sits up high enough that I wouldn't need a Riser..? I'm one of those who doesn't care a whole lot about weight.. I'm gonna get one for my Scar17. If it is too much in lbs... I'll just swap it to another rifle.
The additional BDC dots of a eotech -4 are fit the best for a 14.5'' AR with about 2600fps with M855, while the ones on the Romeos are optimal for 20'' AR. Having a 16'' or 16.75'' might do better bdc wise with the romeos. Would be nice if that quad reticle with the cross hairs could be switched to just a dot since that one has a 1 moa dot instead of 2 with the other reticle.
a video on magnified red dots? yes, please, i use my dominant eye which has a problem, to aim down sights with, and I was hoping a magnifier would help me see beyond 20 feet. like, clear enough to hit targets at the fabled "50 meters is best" thing. (it's not 'best' if I can't see it, though, is it)
I picked up my Romeo 4T for $390 from a drop shipper online. At the time I wanted an “American made” (assembled) red dot and I had already been disappointed by the Trijicon MRO for reasons Hop has covered on this channel. Does it do anything more than some of the Holosuns I have? Not really. I’m not concerned that 6061 aluminum is going to get me killed in the streets so 7075 is sort of lost on me. I will also echo what Hop says here and say that if you want to use those ballistics hold overs then get a magnifier, they’re damn hard to see clearly otherwise. Overall it has been a good optic, the mount it came with was decent, and the dot is crisp for me even with my astigmatism. Would I get it again? Probably not, I’d probably get an Aimpoint Duty, but that wasn’t available when I bought the 4T.
Being a cnc machine operator that works with aluminum, 6000 series aluminum is FAR softer than 7000 series, with 7075 being the best for many high strength low weight applications like aircraft (it is called aircraft grade for a reason) and is great for firearms and firearm accessories as it wont completely dent in to the point of being useless from a small drop. 6061 and 6063 on the other hand are incredibly soft, and are best suited for use as heat sinks and other applications where there is no danger of being damaged.
Not a question particularly relevant to this video but will you do a video on the Smith and Wesson metal frame wonder nines sometime? I don't know if you still have those but I've been wanting to see one like that for a while.
You know most people won’t admit it, but it’s rather nice to be a poor, I don’t ever have to worry about my optics, lights working with NV or any of that nonsense. one can buy a non NV model of an eotech for lower cost and pretend to not be poor and only the NV guys will know you’re poor.
I've been seriously looking at buying the 4T or 4H (because of the qd mount option), but I keep seeing all kinds of issues with durability and longevity of the 4-series dots. Sig Sauer needs to re-release that line with something more updated. It has the stuff I want, but for the price, I may as well go for an EOTech even if I hate the battery life.
How about a review on the Meprolight RDS Pro V2? I’ve got one with a green bullseye reticle and love it but I don’t own night vision. Would love to know how it works with night vision. I also passed on an Eotech EXPS3-0 and went with the RDS Pro V2.