I just watched this vid again, and that amp is a true thing of beauty. The amount of time it must have taken to design and engineer it is I’m sure staggering, plus a week of time with a team of people to assemble it. Wow!
I've see this vídeo again in my new 4K 55' curtes TV and i've really apreciated the huge level of quality a Canadian brand has achieved, jaw dropping really impressed, these mono marvels made Dan Dagostino look pedestrian in comparison. They even surpass my admired and beloved Japanese hi-end hi-fi. Congratulations Simaudio!
Moon amps seem to be significantly increasing in popularity and in the market of high end audio lately, wonderful products and are competing with higher priced pieces of equipment all the time. Those are absolutely beautiful!
Never heard a bad moon product. Have always liked the way they portray music. These look beautifully engineered, I am looking forward to hearing your thoughts on them Mike.
Got to be touching at least $500,000 I bet once you have a complete system to do justice to them amps. Far too rich for my blood - but who wouldn't if they could! :)
you're not including costs of building an appropriate room (and the house to go with these), plus uprated wiring, plus insurance costs (surely!!!), plus UFC-champion body guards (for the bespoke listening room), plus repurchasing your entire music collection from vynil, DSD and PCM to MQA, plus the cost of never going outside again. the end.
Hey Michael, whatever you do, try not to stare into those chromed transformers for too long. you just might begin to believe your face is part of the amplifier.
I once had a gorgeous ONKYO M-510 amplifier, which was quite 'beefy' in all regards. I loved that amp! These Moon monoblocks are in a league of their own. Thanks for sharing (efxaristo!) Mr. Koulisakis!
Thanks Michael to you and Mr. Koulisakis for this inside look at the A888 Moon Neo amplifier. As an owner of a Simaudio 340i I can attest to the fact that Simaudio products are fabulous. These Canadian built A888 amplifiers are for those that want amplification in a large space and they need look no further then these mono-bloc amplifiers. These speakers would pair incredibly well with a pair of Focal Utopia speakers for those who have the financial means to afford them. I would love to visit the factory in Boucherville, Quebec to hear them in action in the demo-room.
Wow..... Very impressive. Certainly out of my price range, however it's important in every industry to have over the top state of the art examples. The new technology they pioneer always finds its way down to the affordable gear over time.
Its the other way round, transistor class B amps like this are existing cheap technology that's been around for decades, although improved output transistors make it easier these days for high power designs. They have packaged what is a pretty good standard class B amp _very_ expensively - top notch engineering of the basics, but not nearly enough to justify the cost, which is a function of greed and gullibility/ignorance in what is a distorted market for "high end" equipment. Although part of the cost can be attrubuted to the lack of economy of scale I suppose.
The smart question to ask about those internal speaker cables around 11:00 is "what metal are the screws made from". If their ferromagnetic its possibly a contributor to distortion, ferromagnetic conductors at high current can generate measurable distortion due to saturation effects. This is why speaker binding posts made of steel can knock and amp's performance down to >0.01% from 0.001% or similar.
It's nice to see how north American power amp manufacturers have come to age to make such beautiful beasts with the same fanatism as my adored Japanese brands. Who can now remember Sony TA-NR1's and even more massive TA-NR1O monaural power amps of yore (1989 and 1992 respectively, I own the former), these Japanese constructors, not only Sony of course, were obsessed with tiny details of the design in a way not seen outside of Japan, but recently I have to reckon, Other western countries are equaling if not surpassing my loved ones. Good job and now I'm going to carry on finishing the unequalled Mr. Fremer's review of these marvels ha ha ha
Michael I love your Videos and your Reviews. I just really would have liked more of his thoughts on what makes a good amplifier circuit then spending so much time talking about chassis design...Thanks
The video says almost nothing about the circuit and output devices, there is some hint about thermal management suggesting standard BJT output devices. My guess is its classic class B BJT design with a dozen or so paralleled 1303/3281's or similar in the output stage. Basically like a Doug Self design but 0.04% THD rather than 0.001% THD. Although the bandwidth spec hints at MOSFET output stage. The flimsy set of specs don't give much away, there's not even a quescient power dissipation so there's no way to determine if its class G for instance. Either way the power supply is over engineered, the chassis is over engineered, but not enough to deserve that pricetag.
Ah, I found the much better list of specs in the user manual... class A/AB, yet quiescent power dissipation is 50W, so actually its close to class B in reality (using the more logical Self definition of class B). Perhaps they mean class A drivers and class B output section? Anyway its BJTs and 32 output devices "MOON Bipolars", probably 1302/3281's of course given the power level is about the maximum that can be got at 8 ohms from +/-125V rails, matching the 250V ratings of those devices.
These 888's are great for Moon's image as a McIntosh killer. Moon should let Michael take these home so we can really find out how good they are. I Just bought an old 1991 Sima Electronics W-3050 rated at 50x2 for $250. I had it re-capped ($175) and hooked it up last week. It's truly mind numbing what these Quebecers can do! It's almost way too loud at 3/4 volume and no sign whatsoever of clipping my Focal's. Brilliant soundstage and deep bass. Blows my Cambridge Audio (rated at 3x the watts) right out of the water.
Glenn, the clipping happens in an amplifier and not in speakers. Also, at 3/4 volume there would be nothing but clipping and distortion in your amp so I will conclude you are just here trolling.
These amps remind me of my Amateur Radio (Ham Radio) hobby, whereby my larger 1.5 or 2 kilowatt amps are hooked up to a separate high amperage service line. I would imagine one needs to call an experienced electrician for this.
if you wanted to be able to get the full 3200 or so watts of power you'd need to, but when the amps were measured yesterday my regular house service was sufficient to get the full 888 watts at 8 ohms..... well more than I would every need to drive my speakers---or most speakers!
Just wondering... How would they compare to Parasound monoblocks for 12k or other brands for around the same. Is there really a sound difference worth all that $$$?
then why would any U.S resident (wealthy or otherwise) consider buying these amps if its massive power reserves are severely limited by what its able to draw from a north american wall outlet?....its like buying a yacht for the back yard swimming pool... just a silly waste.
Reme Mechum why not just ask the question instead of including an ignorant answer? You can get all the power you need in North America if you have your home so wired. Secondly, even had I such wiring I would never come close to needing all of that power but for buyers with really large rooms and inefficient speakers it would be useful. Also, having all that power in reserve makes the amp basically “loaf along”, which some claim enhances the sound. You know, given America’s terrible roads and congested traffic does it make sense to buy a high performance car? Probably not but it’s not a “dumb” purchase.
Forgive me for chiming in but it is worth noting the simple math of it, Reme. On a solo 10-amp line, you are providing a maximum output of 1150 watts from the amplifiers (10 amps x 115 volts =). This is without anything special other than giving each amp it's own circuit off the house's board. By the time you step it up to 20-amps (which is not unheard of, this is still less than a dryer requires) you are now max'ing out the ampls output at 2300 watts. Regardless of whether or not the amp doubles to 2 ohms and provides 3000 watts, you'd hardly ever, ever, ever require full output out of the amplifier unless you had an 75 db sensitive loudspeaker with a massive room and a seriously low output from your pre-amp. A 30-amp line would give you full output. Anybody buying this amplifier is likely more than capable of having their electrician provide them with 2 x 20 or 30 amp lines, and frankly at that point the bigger consideration would be to make sure your house as an overall 200 amp service.....and frankly bigger issue than THAT would be simply how good the power in the house is?? (which then leads to other considerations). The question of "well what about getting maximum output capability" is completely secondary to "how does this amplifier sound, relative to my other (reference) amplifiers at the same volume of listening". And it doesn't matter if most users would never crack 150-200 watts of continuous output (and I'm picking a realistic number). What matters is how they sound at that level.
You didn't understand: it produced the full rated output of 888 watts into 8 ohms (actually measured over 1000W. However while it can double that into 4 ohms, my home electricity couldn't do that.... or do 4000 watts int 2 ohms, nor is that needed..
Reme: I think you are confusing it with a class A amplifier of the same power - this is a well designed class B amp from what I can glean, and who'd be using 2 ohm speakers really, or driving anything like 888W continuous - the caps can handle big transients, run at 100W average into 8 ohms with the odd 800W transient peak, not problem at all.
so Moon is using Mogami cable in their $120,000 flagship amplifiers...Mogami!!!..certainly high quality. but just about the cheapest line of audio cables available to the consumer. what does that say about all the high end cable bandits who marketl and all the audiophiles buying $8k interconnect and $30k speaker cable?...what does Moon Audio know that they dont?..or vise/versa.
+Reme Mechum - Haha, when he said "Mogami" in the video I almost spit out my coffee trying not to laugh! We are talking about a $60k monoblock amplifier here. While Mogami IS an "industry standard" in the Pro Audio & Recording Studio world, it's not exactly "Hi-End" or the best available by any means...it's considered more of the "work horse" of Pro Audio cables. I would have been a bit more impressed if he had said it was one of the better cable/wire assemblies from Sommer Cable or Grimm Audio.
It's less then the 1/4 milion. How many cars you could by for that money that have lot more technology, engenering time and materials to it? So, it's a status symbol , that story with sony reciver don't work, it's just annoying...
Borko Markovic any other foolish quips to “contribute”? If there was an automobile sized market for audio the costs would come way down and these are not produced on an assembly line. How can a product that sits in one’s home be a “status symbol” anyway? A car, a fancy watch, those it could be argued are “status symbols” but even then I don’t think that’s true of most people who buy such cars and watches.
Analog Planet you could argue over this 24/7, it is useless. Ok forget the status symbol example, it is silly expensive... I don't mind it's a kind of show buisness anyway.
Borko Markovic “silly” is in a be mind of the beholder and of course you are entitled to that opinion. However, most of the people who can afford this stuff are highly accomplished people and hardly “silly”. I’ve met many.
As for the commentary, the way it works, is..if you push past a point of perceived normalcy, then just about every person who comes along, will have a comment. Many will border on unbalanced. Simply as their reaction to the given extreme. For good or for bad. With an amplifier like this at the extreme end of the market, everybody's a critic. Or at least a commenter. Psych 101 class.... a psyche limit Rorschach test of a sort... exempli gratia in animam viventem.
Actually we say that, but technically its nonsense: mean power = volts RMS x current RMS x power factor (power factor = 1 for resistive loads). If you were to actually take the instantaneous power, square, mean then square root you get a value thats sqrt(1.5) larger than the mean power. What we mean by "rms power" is "continuous average power", and the rms slipped in from the fact its calculated from rms voltage or current.
I can honestly say that I don’t believe that there’s any reason that a person would want these no matter how much money they have. There certainly can’t be enough benefit from these compared to a more reasonable set up where you don’t have to have your house rewired. Are these concepts amplifiers? Or are they actually for sale on the market?
+Dave30867 I would feel much more "proud" by purchasing a decent pair of more than capable $5k or less monoblocks and donate the massive difference to better our education system for our children & their future, and to help feed & house our poor & homeless, and provide medical services to those who can't afford them. Curious if Costa and the other owners of Sim Audio donate any of their profits to any charities? I am a retired, middle-aged medical professional, musician, photographer, and a complete audiophile nut with the means to comfortably purchase these amplifiers. But IMPO it would be completely ludicrous and pure Elitism to do so, especially just for an audio system's amplifiers, but also for any other audio system component(s), and the entire playback system. The quality of your loudspeaker system and the acoustic treatment/optimization of your listening room will yield an infinitely greater impact on the realism of your audiophile system compared to the differences between say a pair of $5k monoblock amplifiers and a pair of $120k monoblock amplifiers. For all you know, some of the music that you love and will be listening to regularly on your system with these $120k monoblocks was probably mixed using shitty Yamaha NS-10 studio monitors powered by a Bryston 4B amp, haha. Yes, I'm sure that these amplifiers sound very fine, indeed. However, my personal opinion is that there are MUCH better things to do with your $120k. Just my .02, and FWIW this craziness has compelled me to unsubscribe from Mr. Fremer and his "Analog Planet".
bb foto This country would truly be "Great Again" if we had more socially conscience, wealthy people like you Dave who spurn the trappings of greed and are more than willing to donate the money they saved next year in federal tax cuts (and by not buying $200k amps) donated it all to educate, feed and house the less fortunate in this country. bravo! and thank you!
+Analog Planet That seems a bit silly for a monoblock that's rated @ 888 watts nominal. I'm sure that it sounds subjectively way better than my Class A amps, tho'. Hmmm...help feed the starving children of America, or buy a Sim Audio 888? I truly hope you can relish in the lush sound of this amp while sipping your wine and watching your home's electric kWh meter spin as fast as a top, haha.
That's not possible to be 888 watts Class A, I agree. However, you really are implying better fidelity than Pass Labs F5 Turbo at ~100 watts RMS at 8 ohms? I would be willing to take an inefficient latter day speaker system (you know the 360' uber expensive) and A-B Moon 888 vs. Pass Turbo in a double blind experiment and you would find the results challenging. Thanks for responding. The amplifier is gorgeous and it's a wonderful audio purist piece. Just saying Nelson Pass kicks major butt.
Analog Planet sometimes more is less. Nelson Pass design cuts away all the extraneous semiconductors and goes straight through the outputs in 100% current dumping. The mosfets are hexfet chips, .250X.250, eutectic mounted on a heat spreader and wire bonded with fat aluminum ribbons. Hard to get better than that. Really straight forward and clean. He's has worked on his Class A concept since the 1970's, that's over 40 years of serious experimentation. I wouldn't want to be the design engineer to go mano e mano in a shootout. Cheers.
There's a good business model for making a similarly spec'd amp without the over engineering or gross markup and selling a solid product to a wider audience? S Karlsson those cost estimates seem plausible, but you probably need to add $5000 for marketing, leaving only $110,000 of hype
Pure aluminium dissipates heat better than any alloy, but is impossible to machine, machinabiity is the probably the true reason for the alloy chosen, thermal properties and stiffness don't vary hugely between alloys.
888 Watts of power, is complete overkill, and waste of money! No, one in their right mind, is ever going to use even a 3rd of that. Just hard earned money wasted. I'd rather buy something more practical for that amount of money, like a house, or a nice car.
