Fantastic analysis! Elevating a CHA TDL in an urban environment is a MUST due to buildings proximity. But the TDL does DX and NVIS simultaneous on 40M, 60M and 80M! It's also directional. So depending of the orientation - you'll get some gain!
@@HOAHamRadio I agree, I live in an HOA here in TN. It is my go to antenna to setup in my backyard. I use the Surveyor's tripod with the adapter and I get great results. Quick to take up and down. It works so much better than I anticipated. I am going to try the 60' sloper wire with the ss17 next. Keep the videos coming, I enjoy watching them.
I did this same thing 3 weeks ago with a 20 foot mast during the 11 May 24 weekend of the aurora and G5 storm. I feel the 20 foot mast on my truck saved the activation. I made alot of components to adapt a broken Spiderbeam Pole and a brand X hitch mount and some printed pole clamps. Imminently cheaper than the hitch and metal pole that Chameleon sells. I've been working on that project for a least the past 6 weeks.
Bob, one of your best analytical videos. I'm pretty much sold on Chameleon antennas. My QTH is very noisy and I need a quiet antenna. It's my understanding that Delta Loops are inherently quiet. Have you found that to be true.?
Because of being in the HOA, I've been careful about using the Delta Loop as it draws attention. The few times I have used it, I was blown away by the low noise floor. My next POTA activation is definitely going to be with a TDL.
I have both the MPAS 2.0 and TDL and both work very well but I am particularly impressed by the TDL even during poor band conditions. Thanks for the video comparison.
Pretty much in agreement with what I have found over the years with DLs. 30 to 10 meter performance at modest height (I never had any DL over 30 feet max) was great, and always better than a dipole mounted in the same space. The low bands do show the TDL limitations, 80m in particular, with a good antenna you can expect the band noise to be S9, let alone the signals on there. Your video shows signals way under what I would expect on 80m. We sometimes dont appreciated how strong signals are on the low bands, you know when you have a good antenna when you HAVE to switch in some attenuation! But even a compromise antenna is better than no antenna so the TDL giving something your typical tuner can work with is good. 73s de G0AFV
Thank you for your videos! You encouraged me to invest in the 25 foot porta mast for my new QTH. I would also love to see a deeper dive into your Excel analysis! I have a quick question, I have not got my Porta mast up and running yet, but plan to use my chameleon hybrid micro to start. I am seriously considering the tactical Delta loop also. I primarily operate on 40 and I'm wondering in your opinion which will perform better? I typically operate between 9 PM and midnight, phone/voice 100 W. At my old QTH I had a cobra full size mounted 40 feet up in trees and could make contacts pretty much anywhere in the Continental United States. My new QT has zero options for getting a dipole up off the ground. Wondering what my experience might be like and if I'll have been too spoiled with my performance in the past.
I used a 73' wire with my CHA Hybrid Mini for a few years; worked incredibly well -- I often worked 40 meters. My limited experience with the TDL so far, I would say I prefer it even to my 73' wire. HOWEVER.... The TDL isn't intended for parament set up. On top of the Porta Mast, well, the TDL does even better than on the ground. So, if you're looking for minimal set up, a 73' or longer wire will get it done. Right now because of space constraints I'm using 30'...just doesn't get it done of 40 and down.
hi there, i run a chm tdl for pota (ground), the only thing i can say is money well spent ,some contacts to Europa on ssb 57 both ways , now i guess i need a mast 😀😀😀 73 from Canada
Nice video, Bob. Look at L.E. Cebik’s paper on loops. His models demonstrate the effect of height above ground on how loops like this change the take-off angle and other factors. You’d enjoy reading it…
Great video and analysis. What height was the portamast for the testing with HOA, was it the full 20ft or lower to the ground? Thank you and 73s, Ben K
in sql I think that would be something like this: (with made up column names) WITH ( SELECT mast.rx_station, AVG(gnd.snr) AS gnd_snr, AVG(mast.snr) AS mast_snr FROM gnd_dataset AS gnd INNER JOIN mast_dataset AS mast AN gnd.rx_station = mast.rx_station GROUPBY mast.rx_station ) AS snr SELECT AVG(mast_snr - gnd_snr) FROM snr;
I have the MPAS 2.0 and am thinking about adding a delta loop. I love the look of it. I wonder if there any advantages to using the longer 2.0 antenna in a loop config since I already have one green whip.
Nice video! I was really hoping that 6m would make an appearance, even if just for the SWR graphs. It’s funny how Chameleon markets this as 6-80m, but all of the data I’ve seen so far is just 10-80m. I’m hoping for some 6m openings / sporadic E during Field Day, with the intent of using the TDL if so.
Hi Bob, I'm not sure if you covered this in another video and I missed it but I had a question on my Chameleon TDL. Can I run just the Mini Base with one17' whip mounted on a tripod and be able to run 40 meters? If yes, would I need a tuner? Thanks, Jim
That would make it a MPAS Lite...not affective on 40. You could give it a try, and you will need the tuner, but I would not expect it to work well. Doesn't mean you would not make any contacts...you've seen me make contacts with some compromised antennas; it just won't work well.
What configuration do you use for you WSPR set up? I was looking at an appliance based solution (ZachTek WSPR desktop transmitter). Which is helpful for me since I only have the one radio. For me it’s about comparing what is my reference antenna vs, my own builds.
Bob, Fantastic Video!. I have the delta loop and a 12 foot mast that will work. It would be cool if you could offer the same data for the elevated 2.0 or MPAS Lite. You would need the "Stinger Kit". From what I have found online such an antenna elevated can create a 3-5 db gain depending on band. If this holds true that would pay almost all of the convenance tax putting a real dent in the I only run resonant nay sayers. I already have a stinger kit but have almost come to the conclusion I am more of an antenna parts collector than a user. 73
I've been contemplating finally getting a mast, in general, to get stuff higher up; and I already love my TDL; so I really appreciate this examination of what happens when you get the TDL up high! Other than the PortaMast (which feels a bit more bulky than I want to deal with), do you have a recommendation for a mast for the field?
As far as a robust mast, I only have Chameleon; Porta Mast and their FG Mast. I'm sure there are others out there. The opening shot in the video is on the fiber glass mast; I think collapsed its about 3 1/2 feet...its a chunky boy, and STRONG.
I just ordered 2 Zachtek transmitters so I can run comparisons on my balcony at 15 ft above ground. Do you have to worry about the two transmitters affecting each other? Are the transmissions staggered? TNX 73
Think of keeping the antennas spaced as far away as possible, or their signal will interfere and influence the results. I run my transmitters simultaneously, not staggered. If you can't space your antennas, then I presume running the transmitters staggered would give representative results, but you shouldn't have the antennas so close they impact each other.
@@HOAHamRadio Thanks for the quick reply. I'm pretty limited with an approx 8' x 10' balcony. Might have to do the comparisons separately. We'll see. Thanks for the WSPR idea!
I was using the Chameleon Fiberglass mast and their Porta Mast. Both were used with Porta Mast accessories; drive on mount, and hitch mount. The Fiberglass mast is no longer available but the Porta Mast is. I have several videos on my channel where I use the Porta Mast. It is AWESOME! Here is a link to the Porta Mast on the Chameleon site: chameleonantenna.com/shop-here/ols/products/cha-porta-mast
One thing to keep in mind ...as we all know, the Chameleon MPAS and other components are well-designed and modular. The broadbanded 5:1 Hybrid Mini or MIcro unun is the heart of the system. What do you get....lower SWR across the HF spectrum as well as ease and quickness of setup. What are the drawbacks? Loss and expense. Some have calculated at least -1.5 dB thru the Chameleon ununs. So, for about 100 watts input, you only get out about 71 watts into the antenna the other side of the transformer; assuming the testing regimes were accurate. TANSSTAAFL....there ain't no such thing as a free lunch (Robert Heinlein - "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress)...this is not magic. I like the Chameleon MPAS system, but it has its place. If you have the time or inclination to erect a full sized and resonant antenna, then do so. I like Delta loops and am currently exploring options for improving the base Chameleon system without the lossy transformer. The other thing to keep in mind is that the whips and connecting wire are self-resonant around 17 MHz. Performance drops off significantly below that frequency, as we are aware. Chameleon is going to issue longer components of the CHA-TDL system soon to get the resonance down to around 11.5 MHz, two (2) - 25 foot whips and a 35 foot connecting wire IIRC from the company's posts on FB. Finally, this antenna is just one option in your communications toolbox....its not the be all and end all.
2 questions can I leave the T. D. L. up permanently and is it possible to mount this antenna midway up the same mast that my VHF/UHF antenna on and if that is possible is there a commercially made standoff of about a foot in length or will I have to make my own thanks and 73 for now from Ed W9JE
@@HOAHamRadio that totally sucks I live in a space restricted area and the T. D. L. would fit the spot perfectly and I could use ham sticks but it gets sold up here in Wisconsin in the winter so I don't like going outside each time I want to change bands plus I can't run anything that requires radials since I'm on the upper level
new ham question-sorry:-) when you say they reported hearing you- was this the result of an auto signaling msg you sent out or were you going back and forth with them?
Make a good excel video for this. I am an exec, I often over simply analytics in excel vs our deep-dive data analytics front end. I can probably replicate this based on your walk-through. But I am not interested in building another wheel😂 .
@@HOAHamRadio Usually by adding additional fields into data sets and various tables, then mapping using filters or other formulas - basic aggregation techniques. I always have tabs for deep dives should one of our more senior leaders want to dig in a bit, but most of my c-suite presos generally are single session, 15-25 minutes, and if they want to deep dive usually a follow on. Most of my follow-one are with peers as they are at a level with me where we need to do both deep dives and manage south and north. So ya, i love to nerd out on data and data points - the firms and organizations I have been in over the past 10-11 years are very data driven, but sometimes you need to dumb it down just a bit (no disrespect) to take deep technical efforts, mostly data center engineering, and put it into more simplified and aggregated visuals. I eases the burden on explaining what the data points are. . Lipstick on a pig as i have been saying now for about 35 years..lol
