Singapore’s Struggle to Grow its Population 

Well in 2018 I rmb S'pore's PM once said something like: "But our immigrants from less developed countries aren't asking for work-life balance"

Social media has degraded interpersonal skills. Phone zombies.

and if you have a son, that mean no 2 years of slavery military conscription for your kid

I am a financial analyst.

@@Asianometry self taught?

I concur. Excellent channel.

One of the best. I did find it hard to follow some topics like the one lithography foundries...

They don’t have natural resources anyway

Is that because of expenses?

@@spicemasterii6775 lazy to have sex

You make a good point. But I also think people are in a mirage they are in control of their social life. Having a good social life is a mind set. If you are accustomed to think a certain way it is so ingrained nothing can change it. It becomes like your whole self. So asking more people to get married or having more children it wont happen even with giving financial support. It is a slow culture over taking everything.

Yup perhaps some races/cultures are more competitive-minded while others are more laid-back e.g. my father (Chinese) had found it difficult to fathom that 1 of my English teachers (who's Malay) had earlier switched from a Merill Lynch career because he preferred to have more family time

East Asians are the most particular people. They like their life a certain specific way, they have high expectations for themselves and others. They’d rather stay single if their viable partner doesn’t meet their expectation.

@BlackBannerz yes that’s why white men is the number one dating preference for most East Asian Americans. Pure racism

As a biologist, if I see any other populaiton going through this stage, I'll say that population is at its dying stage. Biologically speaking, human population is pretty close to its death stage. Only some innovation, big enogh to rival the invention of agriculture can rescue us.

@@aniksamiurrahman6365 isn't the population decline in biology is correlated with devastation of resource instead of directly because of population?

@@bunyu6237 Not devastation, just depletion. Depletion of resource. As population grows, more and more people consumes the resuource leading to depletion. As a result there comes a time when - first there's just not enough for everyone, then there's not enough for anyone. You might say - this isn't happening for humans. But our "wealth and assest" ultimately comes from the environment. And if we take resource depletion in the environment, it becomes clear that we humans too are facing resource depletion on a global scale.

@@aniksamiurrahman6365 Basically, we cannot have infinite growth on a finite resources.

but it makes sense tho since that is their hard work through all these years

8:38 Singapore should have less issue down the line with funding the government's social policies promised to elders' as instead of pensions, the retired are expected to live off compulsory savings made back when they were working (under it's Central Provident Fund (CPF) scheme), so it's more self-sustaining financially & less dependent on government funding. Since employers are legally required to chip in to fund these savings too, & the CPF scheme is for locals & PRs but not other foreigners though, there's also concern that they might favour hiring foreigners over PRs & locals since then the employer can save on having to chip in

Correction, Singapore have 5m+ population with almost 2m of foreigner working here... singapoeans only 3m+ so the problem is worse actually

Might be interesting to compare Singapore with other developed countries with similar populations but spread out over much larger land areas e.g. Scandinavian ones, Ireland, Finland; I'm guessing they might face additional challenges e.g. village depopulation as their population is more spread out also

5mil+ for a land area of 734 square km area. go figure out.

That could mean that Singapore will have demographic shifts in the future i.e. Malays & Indians (whose replacement rate is in-between that of Chinese & Malays) will become bigger minority races than they are now

@Edwin Thomas he was talking about indians in Singapore not india

I think it's a mistake to place high child birth rates for poor communities which to my knowledge is true globally, on cultural values. I think there is a psychological element that causes that correlation, but I don't think it's a cultural connection because it happens globally.

@Edwin Thomas I completely disagree with the first sentiment. Culture is a reflection of material conditions, not some entrenched heritable quality. That's why consistently you see the same behaviors distributed along class lines. I agree that it changes, but only due to a change in those conditions, be it linguistic or economic. Culture is the previous experience grafted onto existing conditions and it is the actual conditions that predict behavior. The main 2 being population density and economic status.

wrong, many rich population will often have less kids

I never heard of this before, this is a very logical take, and seems interesting. Do you have any resource I can read further?

Very good take. I also don't think it has anything to do with culture, the stats make it painfully obvious that it's about how wealthy a country become.

Some costs associated with child-rearing have definitely risen over time in Singapore, where I reside e.g. milk powder prices have risen so much (S$50-80/tin now; or ~US$35-60) that the government has setup a task force to look into it, which I think has also been partially attributed to demand for child-rearing-related goods & services being more price inelastic - since parents want the best for their children, it's believed they'd be more willing to pay more for child-rearing goods & services e.g. childcare, which was ~$250/month ~20 years ago (at government-run ones; private operators could charge closer to S$1000) when I was a child but ~S$900 today. Monthly school bus fares was also ~s$40 ~20 yrs ago (which has been traditionally lower than market rates) but can be ~$200+ now, which on the flip side has also brought them closer to market rates I think (~S$120/trip/~47-seater bus), so drivers might not be as incentivised to ferry students to school much earlier than school starting time (I've heard it can be up to 50min before the school start time of 0715h; though in my school the buses usually reach around 7 instead, but anyway it still means that students have to wake up even earlier for school), as that'd allow drivers to also ferry factory workers (who're more profitable as their employers pay market rates for the service, & factories here, including their offices), usually start work around 0800h). For comparison, a fresh graduate's starting pay here is around S$3-4k monthly

Glad someone said this

F

Oh maybe they can do a cultural classes for before agreeing to a visa ?

What about malaysian malay?

@@myerwerl same

@@blupeppers6437 Cultural class wouldn't do shit, it just adds more complicated system. One good comparison is the moral class at school or HR 'class' does it really do something? I don't think so

@@myerwerl Malaysian Malays might have less incentive to migrate/commute to Singapore for work I guess than since Malaysia's government policies give them priority I heard

Nothing worrying about it at all. It's great news for the environment.

@@retiredinbali9565 Lmao are u joking? Modern people are becoming increasingly selfish and pathetic

@@retiredinbali9565 lol only the advanced countries try to make better for the environment...the rest burn shit like no tomorrow...you are dumb AF

@BlackBannerz as long as their are people, someone will run the country. And If there are no people left, then that's not a problem either .

.....WTF?

Yeah, I hear you. That’s some bizarreness there. I think the thing most eugenicists tend to forget is that they’re usually not the ones choosing the rules. I don’t necessarily believe the Singaporean policy is eugenics. And for any rate it is clearly not working.

It was eugenics. Then again the stop at 2 was also eugenics. All the tax breaks based on births are eugenics. Foreign talent is also eugenics. It isn't that uncommon, parents want their children to marry good mates, that's eugenics too. The question is whether something like preferring children to marry good mates is effective as government policy. The answer to that is simple, no.

@@Asianometry Lee Kuan Yew personally believes intelligence is 70% genetics and 30% environment. That policy has been raised in several of his interviews and he makes it pretty clear that it's at least partially influenced by eugenics.

Yes it is. The first PM believed very strongly in genes. Though that Graduate Mothers Scheme faced huge backlash when it was introduced and it had to be repealed after one year.

I agree, I’m Singaporean and have migrated to Taiwan. A healthy and warm culture are absolutely essential for me.

Singapore's government spending as a % of GDP is relatively low too I recall (~25%, & our biggest component of government spending (defence) is 'just' 3.5% of GDP), & it's less on welfare handouts/benefits (because there isn't much populist political pressure to have that; we can argue that it'd be delusional/spoilt to demand that because we lack natural resources, we used to be poor & don't want to be complacent etc.) but more on longer-term projects e.g. - career retraining & other education (as a small, densely populated country, we probably have more economies of scale, as our population is spread over a smaller area, so you can serve them with fewer bigger schools (typically ~1600-2400 students/school, & previously we had some classes schooled in the morning & others in the afternoon, so each classroom can be reused daily by 2 classes, saving on the infrastructure needed). They typically get closed down/merged with other schools once the student population dips below ~500 (3 classes per level in secondary schools, which is equivalent to 7-10th grade), but in more rural areas in other countries I think some schools won't even have that many students. - infrastructure (might help too that construction labour is cheaper since they're mostly migrant workers who remit their pay to their families living in countries where costs of living are lower, & aren't allowed to move to Singapore to live too (unless they're working here too). The government can be quite conservative with expanding transport infra too sometimes e.g. waiting for a neighbourhood to be populated for a few decades before adding a train station there, usually choosing the lowest bidder for construction projects (though sadly some contractors have gone bankrupt halfway). Fortunately public transport fares are cheaper here, probably because while other countries may discourage private transport by having highways privatised & higher tolls charged by the private companies that have the highways' concessions, or having more expensive parking fees in downtown, which leads to the negative externality of private transport e.g. congestion, air pollution be internalised by private companies, in Singapore these are internalised by the government instead e.g. high car taxes, though parking & tolls are cheaper (our roads aren't privatised either), & the government can use the derived revenue to fund public transport projects), - health insurance (but our government's healthcare spending/subsidies can be more discriminating in some circumstances e.g. 1 of my ex-schoolmate's mother was reportedly not insured by the government's vaccine insurance programme when she faced chronic arm pain after her Pfizer-B&T CoViD-19 injection & had to go for physiotherapy/TCM treatment, as our Ministry of Health allegedly refused to recognise that as a "vaccine injury" (& might've blamed that on other factors in her lifestyle too e.g. other pre-existing (?) chronic illnesses/ailments). Another countrymen also found himself disqualified from public health subsidies at a public hospital that he was referred to by an outpatient doctor (who wasn't sufficiently equipped to treat his condition) as that doctor was in a private instead of a government clinic. Dental procedures are also often not insurable in this country, & our government had also announced it'll refuse to subsidise treatment for those who travel overseas (earlier on) & now unvaccinated people too, if they get infected by the pandemic.)

Because we have no welfare.

Singapore's TFR broken down meanwhile is ~1.06 for Chinese, 1.96 for Malays & somewhere in-between (I couldn't remember the exact number) for Indians

Import a lot why worry ?

I think if men began more actively participating in raising children I bet the view of it being such a thankless, worthless task that only lowers your social status would slowly dissipate.

Except singapore dosnt have a housing market, its basically all public and is very resobly priced.

There is no getting away from it. Let's not embrace Pollyannaism. Either birth rate increases for Western countries and for Asian countries like Taiwan or Singapore or they resort to mass immigration. If not, their societies die.

@@jacksonneptune4083 if you resort to mass migration then you still die out

Singapore's GDP is very much a propped up figure based on the amount of foreign workers we keep importing. What's a really top SG company making waves on the global scene?? We have no real economy or productivity it's all a bubble.

mostly Muslims reproducing not native French

In some ways Singapore's immigration policy is liberal (non-citizens are almost 40% of our population (including PRs), & our politicians often espouse the importance of being open, & previously foreigners got the same healthcare subsidies as locals, & still can do so for university education if they sign a 3-yr bond to work in a local company (including foreign ones that have operations here) after graduation). In other ways it isn't though e.g. 40-60% of foreigners (excluding PRs) are blue-collar workers e.g. domestic helpers, construction workers mostly under the Work Permit scheme, which has some similarities to the _kafala_ system used in the Middle East e.g. cannot change jobs unless you leave Singapore & re-apply for a new job & residency permit, need health check-ups 2x/year & can be deported for having STDs, cannot marry or become pregnant locally. A possible advantage of this arrangement I can think of is that the government is less likely to face social problems e.g. it can have less unemployed people locally, who might be more incentivised to commit crime e.g. robbery, if it requires foreigners looking for work to secure Singapore employment 1st before coming over (as required by the scheme I think)

Definitely a good policy, but when implemented elsewhere around the world it has almost no effect on fertility. This is one of those problems that we still haven’t found a good solution to yet.

These policies don’t work. What’s keeping fertility down isn’t money but mindset of the people. Feminist countries (Or countries with a feminist mindset) won’t ever have a high enough fertility with the exception of Israel because of its massive fertility rate of Orthodox Jews (who aren’t feminist) who are becoming a larger and larger percent of the population due to it. For an example look at Syria, a total shit show with civil war and poverty and yet the fertility rate is 2.5 but people in rich and stable western counties somehow have a average of 1.5.

Don't worry - it's already been happening for some time in Singapore.

Git back to work ya slacker!

Yeah I’m thinking of it. Got any angles I should explore?

@@Asianometry On the surface, couples who don't have children often claim it's due to financial reasons. However, based on personal observations, I think there is some mentality aspects as well.

That’s a good angle. I’ll take look at it!

@@shang-hsienyang1284 that’s been my observation as well. I think the near universal failure of financial compensation to incentivize reproduction really proves this.

Sadly while I was at the actual Singaporean library I neglected to take a pic of all the students. Needed an alternative.

The countries that are ageing with low immigration levels such as Italy, Japan, Russia, and Greece suggest otherwise. I regardless would not really use Germany as an example of this. As it’s economy growing has more to do with other factors that are not common with countries with falling labour levels. These factors include the following. Massively increased exports to Asian developing nations, especially China. The Economic growth of Eastern German provinces after German unification. Increased access and integration to Western and Eastern European markets and there skilled labour. A good Immigration system that balanced skilled and young workers. While other European countries could of benefited from these circumstances. The country of Germany was in the perfect spot political and economically to reap the economic benefits of these factors. This made the economic consequences of declining labour force invisible and hidden.

Well stated.

Haha, including madturbation !

even on? you know? 😅

You’re saying there’s only a quarter of Singaporeans in Singapore??????????? Don’t trip sir. Enough of Alex Tab for you

You just got PR or citizenship?

@@laocheebye Born here, so were my parents and my 4 grandparents

Your mindset is retarded. Would France still be France if 60% of the people are non French? Of course not same for Singapore

@@alvinlin8140 Over 80% of American are not of British origin. Doesn’t make them less American.

@@alvinlin8140 Yes, France would still be France, and those people would also be french. France now is not the same from France from 50 years ago, same for all countries, but yeah, it's still France.

I frequent the Singapore subreddit. It does seem that most locals don’t think very highly of these people.

Yes but you make foreigners (permanent residents) who turn 18 serve in your military. Singapore is the only country in the world to do so.

@@Asianometry I probably am of the unpopular opinion, but I don’t think many Singaporeans are talented, and are at most mediocre (I think of myself as mediocre tbh). Lol, we have high number of Singaporeans employed in the civil service for the “iron rice bowl” jobs (the mentality of the older generations); how will our economy stay competitive like that? How many people want to help themselves to get better skills?

@@Ccb88888 Heard might've caused some conflict with nearby Indonesia as it's said it'd cancel citizenships of its citizens who serve in foreign militaries (perhaps including Indonesians who hold Singapore PR?)

I have never seen a local population anywhere in the world take kindly to low and high skilled immigrants from other countries. @@Asianometry

Right

Maybe u can try again. As long as u have a business or planning to venture in Singapore, I think it will be easier to get a work visa. Then convert to PR

It’s simply bad timing. Priorities are in hiring Singaporeans to keep unemployment rate down and hence, not many companies are able to procure work visas for any expats.

@@MsEverAfterings It's okay, we broke up, I'm moving to Taiwan now lol

@@djunior874 lol aww.. All the best to your move!

@@MsEverAfterings thanks, now they have border restrictions, but at least I have a contract and work permit 😅

Stay in Malaysia..wherever u go..finally u will end up 6 feet underground...

Yes, social skills have declined. Phone zombies.

Well no one's been screwing, so we're screwed

@@LurpakSpreadableButter haaa very funny

Trust me that isn't the only reason. Alot of people are scared to admit they spend so much time studying and on their career they made have lost some social skills how to find someone. Singapore needs to pass the first hurdle and that is getting more people married. There was a study done that showed when people were married they had no less or no more babies in particular 2 or 1.

@@2DarkHorizon that's probably the biggest problem right there. A good career isn't the only thing in life. Maybe the best in between would be to offer education or work benefits to women only after they start having kids as an incentive. It seems so backward now, with all the medical advances we have made the working age has been massive extended yet the fertility window remains the same. So encouraging a family first approach would be the best option, and instead of college straight out of high school.

By convincing women to spend their youth studying and working so that some corporations profit and the GDP goes up, they've managed to handicap families.

I need to correct the misinformation. Fertility window goes from circa 14 to 42 years old. There's millions of children born to 30+ y.o. women, they're well inside the fertility window. Average age for onset of menopause is 54y.o. Knowing the basics of biology is fundamental for creating sensible policies.

@@piernikowyloodek You must not understand the term "peak". By age 30 women only have 10% of their eggs left. If you are very rich and can afford the high cost of a fertility clinic or a surrogate, then yeah you can probably have a baby. The chances are smaller after age 35 though. After age 30 on up the chances are so much higher of having babies with a developmental disability such as autism or down syndrome. Women should look at their bodies as a athlete does. You have to take advantage of youth youth while your body can still handle the trauma your body will experience. Halle Berry had a baby had a baby in her 40s but she used a surrogate after her being told her womb could no longer hold a child. She stated that it cost her over a million dollars for all these treatments and consultations, not including the surrogate. Even under perfect conditions in a healthy, young female her chances of pregnancy is 30%. Its not 100% or even 50 % after having sex with a healthy male but a mere 30.

LOL the government is taking in many more immigrants than is necessary for population replacement.

If you businesses owner of cos good lah. If worker still neeed to fulfill national conscription obligation how they feel? Being squeezed both sides by the state they served time for. Jobs pay get lowered and NS obligation made us uncompetitive. My fault of cos. It is on me to become a successful boss and hire foreign worker. The stuck up locals can relak 1 corner.

That's the country problem, not ours.

watch the child abandonment rate go BRRRR

@@zhenyuanyeo8386 this is true, but tomorrow problem :-)

Paying people to have kids doesn’t work. Example-western Europe

Just put sex hormones in their water and watch everything go ohyeah

So am I... I'm Singaporean.

@@shastasilverchairsg you are a man?

That’s is a fucking disaster. Tens of thousands of people are raised without parents. Don’t be surprised when if your country collapses. A huge reason for the fertile rates tanking is the moral and spiritual degradation of a society and your literally asking to degraded it further

If the state does nothing, it WILL collapse. Considering the state is the parents, and how well parents nowsaday takes care of their children, the state is likely to do a better job than many. I'm not saying ban people from having and raising their own children. This is less resource intensive for the state. On the plus side, it will be a boom for employment, provided there are people who wants to do this job. Migration will temporary solve the issue , but its not without its downside. You can see the side effects already. The native population ain't too thrilled to see their jobs taken away by new citizens. When other countries start to tackle their own fertility woes by; 1. preventing their best people from moving, 2. compete with other countries for desirable migrants, it will make it harder for the state to find suitable replacements, and the quality pool will continue to drop. If you have a better solution, I ( and I think the state will too) love to hear you out. PS: I'm alright with cloning other humans if the downsides are well understood and suitably managed ( which at the moment I dont think it has), but most people wont be able to stomach that thought so I wont suggest that.

Ur pretty crazy if you want to artificially breed babies Humans are already treated like disposition machines more than enough Your idea would be a disaster

No offense but I mean you are either a sociopath or you didn’t think this through If you think it through You should immediately understand how morally reprehensible it is But also psychologically and sociologically it is a huge disaster to have children without families There is a reason orphanages are increasingly being phased out because they have seriously bad effects on the children Then think about the implications it would have on the rights and values of human life Its dangerous water on so many levels

@@dj_koen1265 No issue. Just call me what you like. I made a living by doing things differently so I'm called such names quite often. At the end of the day, I get things done. Could you elaborate on what you meant by "morally reprehensible"? I failed to understand why deserve to be condemn. Orphanages may have bad effects on children, but I believe that the education system that they are put through are not centralized coordinated in order to bring up the best for the children and the state. Considering how poorly many children are brought up nowadays, I think our state ( Singapore) has a good chance to be better than these parents. I accept that I will be condemn for such ideas, although I failed to see the reason other than " becos their religion said so". From my point of view, rights and value belief system is more of a byproduct from education. With careful education and upbringing, I dont see how children brought up by the state is any less worthly than a child that is brought up by the traditional family system. What Singapore ( and many other countries I believe) is facing is the lack of people reproducing, and there's a huge range of possibilities why people are not reproducing. Singapore have tried for many years to reverse the situation but so far nothing is working. Rather than hoping that its population will help the govt, its probably much more reliable to do it at the state level. Some may say these children will be brainwashed... but its no difference from the current population being brainwash through the current media channels. The current way that the govt is hoping to slow down the problem is to attract immigration, but its already reaching its limits, and as the problem gets more accute in other countries, Singapore will have even more challenges to attract the right sort of people to move here as other counties compete for the same resource. If you or anyone is able to suggest better solutions, I'm sure the govt will be very interested.

Nope you will get a huge angry crowd then.

Lol no